HOWARD - we still love you - you're number 1!

And you're gonna smile along with the rest of us when the audio snafu during the Petraeus hearing gets wide release on the internets.

I am getting angrier here in Florida that only one side is told about the primary.    I believe firmly they have silenced Howard Dean until he is hesitant to even defend himself.    I believe every voice in this party is equally important, including his....and I think the congressional leaders have silenced him. 

This is what he said in April...I wonder how he feels now at not speaking out for what is right.  

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1442 

“In the beginning I was pretty outspoken but now others have that role. When you have the Speaker of the House and the Majority Leader you don’t need the chairman of the party being on the talk shows. But early on I was on a lot of those talk shows because I felt I was one of the leading spokesmen for the Democratic Party.

“You know, I am happy…but I am not as visible as I was…because we have the majority in Congress and the House. That is real power. We didn’t have that when I started and now we do. My object is not to make sure I am the center of power. My object is to make sure things get done. I am very satisfied with what is going on in Congress. I am very happy. I think Sen. Reid and Speaker Pelosi are both doing a great job and I wouldn’t say so if I didn’t think so, as you well know."

More in another comment.  It is hard living in this Florida wasteland with no honesty in sight.

The United States Senate is taking up the Defense Appropriations Bill,
and Senators Levin, Feingold, Reid (NV) nad Reed (RI) have introduced
amendments to require the withdrawal of U.S. occupation forces from
Iraq. Also, Senators Clinton and Byrd have drafted an amendment to
withdraw the 2002 Iraq war authorization.

Call your senators to support the amendments!

Great firsties Suzanne!

Totally correct.

97.

Phil Specht
Mon, 09/10/07
1:07 pm

I hope all of you are at least finding out when and where the local party meets so you can go to a meeting and offer your talents.

----------

Gee Phil do you want us to quit b*tching and go to work? lol

----------

113. Seashell my doc gave me some drugs I like - meloxicam. I take it and nothing happens but I notice less stiffness after a day or two. I take as needed. It's prolly just Advil lol.

Reid and Pelosi are doing a FANNNTASSTTIICCC job!

It is a sad result of the 06 elections that Dean has taken himself out of the mix of Democratic leaders. He could certainly be attacking Bushco. on a whole range of issues.

Petraeus on CSpan3 spinning his lies and deceits. No car bomb deaths included in civilian death count.  How to Lie with statistics 101....

111. Indy Steve

107. Sitka

Sitka, please quit repeating DNC propaganda. Dean is NOT rebuilding the party at state and local levels. All he has done is give the existing power structure some money and a few staff to help them consolidate and extend their power. This is the reality....and your image doesn't correspond to the reality.

It is a huge flaw in the 50-state strategy. No party structure reform that I can see.

================

Steve, how do you differentiate between the Dean 50-State Strategy, and selling out to the DLC Clinton-era "moderates" and people like Rahm Emmanuel? Where/how do you draw the line?

I am not trying to be facetious, but I find it a puzzling question myself.

I am getting angrier here in Florida that only one side is told about the primary.    I believe firmly they have silenced Howard Dean until he is hesitant to even defend himself

I imagine Dean prefers keeping the matter as quiet as possible. I wouldn't help for him to get in a shouting match with those who want to move up FL's primary. 

BS Sitka....BS... it is NOT quiet here in Florida.

FRED from OR
Mon, 09/10/07
1:44 pm

Exactly my point...the 50 state strategy which only reinforces cronyism plays right into the DLC, Bluedog Dem capitulation we so abhor in Democrats.

The funding from DNC to states should be accompanied with real strucural reforms to open up the party to reformist newcomers. Without that, it just puts a staff person in the control of state and local cronies to do their bidding.

Dean is relying too heavily on US to do the heavy lifting against an entrenched party machine that doesn't want reform and is quite content with DLC-type candidates. That is the dilemma which I wish would get more discussion here.

The emails sent out by Florida leaders to stop donations to the DNC are going to hurt the party in many ways.   First off too many here are not hearing the DNC's side of it at all.  Secondly...fundraising attacks will hurt all of us.

 http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1488

I feel like giving up the fight here in Florida.  Heard from some other DFAers who are feeling lost as well.  It is though why bother anymore.

Well, there are some good people speaking up to Petraeus. Problem is they were just taken away by the capitol police at the direction of shill Skelton.

114.

Sitka
Mon, 09/10/07
1:30 pm

Believe Howard Dean or Indy Steve?
That's a no-brainer.
---------

...lol, I'm not 100% certain that's no brainer...and both might be right here.
Howard Dean is a politician....even "professional" one now, Indy Steve is not..., at least not yet..., lol.

1) To whom would you believe more: to "prof" politician or to regular guy?

2) Dean convinced us (and we all believe that his goal is to take this country back to people)...., to do that, he said, we need to "take Demos party back" first.

But what exactly "take Demos party back" means one may only guess. I doubt it means just to replace some "not very honest Demos profs" for another "honest" ones...., but what else it might mean....?

.BS... it is NOT quiet here in Florida.

If you want to respond, please respond to what I actually said, which was --  "I imagine Dean prefers keeping the matter as quiet as possible. It wouldn't help for him to get in a shouting match with those who want to move up FL's primary."

Notice that I didn't say. "It is quiet in FL." I said Dean does not want to make it even louder by getting in a shouting match. He won the fight to not accredit any delegates selected in FL's primary and realizes that he must now let the losers cry about it for a while before reaching a deal with them later.

1) To whom would you believe more: to "prof" politician or to regular guy?

In this case, 

Howard Dean - 1

Regular Guy - 0 

In a way, Dean's commitment to decentralization is working against us on the local level working for reform of the party. The DNC gives money and staff to state parties without any conditions under the illusion that they will use them to help us on the ground.

The DNC needs to recognize this contradiction. Giving money to state crony parties only reinforces their power and ability to shut us out. I know this is unpopular here to Deaniacs but it is a reality on the ground.....

3.

Joan* In*Florida

Also, Senators Clinton and Byrd have drafted an amendment to
withdraw the 2002 Iraq war authorization.
=====================
The Biden-Levin-Hagel bill last January 17th was to de-escalate the occupation

http://biden.senate.gov/newsroom/details...

and Biden first proposed a sunset Resolution for the Iraq Resolution last January 18th, followed by Richardson proposing it three weeks later, and Hillary in May.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJvsNmqGU... (00:47)

Has Ike Skelton always been this lame and traitorous???

OK, a couple of things. Tom Lantos has a daughter, Katrina Swett, who wants to be the next Senator from NH. In assessing the three candidates we have so far, I opined the other day that if Tom Lantos were to take a hard stand on the war, it would be a big plus for Katrina (she's been pushing her dad's holocaust experience, etc). So, yesterday, at a Dem County picnic she made her pitch and asked everybody to tune in to the Foreign Relations Committee hearing with BetrayUs. We'll see what happens when the questioning starts. David did claim at the start that he wrote the report and hadn't had it approved by his "chain of command."

Another thing. Some of you will remember that I got a call from Marty Mehan on behalf of Hillary. Well, our own Marcia had a brief exchange with Terie Norelli, who instroduced and is supporting Hillary, who then came back and asked about her lack of enthusiasm and Marcia let her know in no uncertain terms that she doesn't appreciate Begala and Carville referring to the 50 state strategy as Rumsfeldian. So, a few days later she got a call from someone claiming to be Terry McAuliffe, who assured her that they are fully supportive of Howard and, after all, he turned over a brand new building to Howard and money in the bank and the membership list (all but the building being, we know, a crock) but marcia said she didn't let up on Carville and Begala and Terry explained how they're "credentialed" journalists and not under the campaigns control. Terry is, of course, managing Hillary's campaign.
I think Howard is smart to stay out of the primary.

There is much more you can do floridagal if you aren't already.

First, you are spreading the word here very well. Also, if you belong to other Florida  DFA groups, email their leaders and attach links to everything. I never assume they know it all.

Write letters to all the editors in your area. I have already seen some in Daytona Beach paper and a number of op-eds supporting the DNC decision.

I forwarded the madfloridian piece about the Levin/McAuliffe to our state rep. who was glad to get it.

Has Ike Skelton always been this lame and traitorous??? 

Yes. He's been a bushevik all along. 

17.

You make an excellent point Steve, especially about the cronies.

Write to Dean at the DNC. I think Dems don't think they get through, but I have gotten several answers in the past. Howard may have people who filter through these letters first.

17.

Indy Steve
Mon, 09/10/07
1:58 pm


In a way, Dean's commitment to decentralization is working against us...
------

???
I'm not sure "decentralization is working against" people..., even more, I'm sure it'll ULTIMATELY working FOR them.

Now there is guess: "take Demos Party back" might mean GETTING RID of its power...and by DOING so...yielding power back to whom it should belong - to local people.

I see this battle over the Dem party more and more as an insider elite who want to control the party vs. those of us who want to open it up. If the 50 state strategy just reinforces that elite who WILL try to marginalize those who want reform, then it is incomplete and ineffective.

We need to have the help of the DNC in forcing open the party at the local/state level to include more in its structure. Right now, it's not clear the DNC is doing that, or that they even care to in the 50 state strategy. Dean seems to feel that it will resolve itself and reform will just happen.

I'm not so optimistic from the ground level view.....

24.

former
Mon, 09/10/07
2:06 pm
---------
oops,

forgot to add that Reps Party is at the end if its suicidal process..., and we don't have viable 3-rd Party..., lol.

former

When decentralization works to enforce elites and party machine politics, it works against reform.

Decentraliization is not always good. Just think about the civil rights movement. We needed a federal gov't. and Federal court that wouldn't permit local authorities to violate civil rights.

 In some ways, this is the same within the Dem party. We need the DNC to open up the party at the local level.

There was a kerfuffle in the hearing room and women were yelling as they were being removed. Now there's the crock spouting but I'm not listening.

To get back to the picnic. None of the pres candidates showed but sent reps to speak for them. Billie Shaheen spoke for Hillary. He's the state chair of her campaign. The last time I saw him he was at a house party/reception at which Hillary ended her speech by saying that Billie would be mad if she didn't ask for our vote. That was a bit weird.
Anyway, I didn't pay close attention to Billie. But, for a while he ran through a list of Bill's accomplishments, including the budget surplus, and the quick resolution of Bosnia and the peace in northern Ireland, which was somehow supposed to back up the claim of experience. The Bosnia thing came across as really weird in that he said there it had been Christians "defending" muslims.
Then there was a litanny of Bush evils and how the general election was going to be dirty and we needed a fighter who'd been standing up to Republicans for fifteen years.
I have to tell you that this tone was not persuasive. I couldn't actually envision anything that Hillary had accomplished by standing up to Republicans, and Billie didn't provide any examples.
I get the sense that there's something really wrong. Burt Cohen who ended not running for Senate because his campaign manager stole all his funds posted a screed entitled the "inevitability of Hillary" today.
And there's another one about a different kind of First Lady that I haven't read.

10. 17. Indy Steve

=================
I don't know enough about the local nuts-and-bolts but it sounds like you have done your homework.

Generally speaking, there will be some compromise of core values in some Red States, that is the reality. The ideal would be to have the instincts to sacrifice as little as possible (tailored to each individual State's issues) in order to win, without giving away the store.

Gen. Petreaus is going to betray us with a rigged report...and Ryan Crocker is now giving us a crock of crap. The big question is: will the Dems do more than a symbolic show of opposition?

27.

Indy Steve
Mon, 09/10/07
2:11 pm

When decentralization works to enforce elites and party machine politics, it works against reform.

Decentraliization is not always good....
--------

Well, the HISTORY is been delivered right in front of us, we are spectators and participants at the same time..., we'll see.

I feel like giving up the fight here in Florida.  Heard from some other DFAers who are feeling lost as well.  It is though why bother anymore.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

gal,

Most importantly dont let it effect your health.........dont worry, the country is going to hell in a handbasket and its practically irreversible now............let nature take its course.........maybe vacate yourself from American politics for while.........apart from some really cool types here, it basically stinks................

Generally speaking, there will be some compromise of core values in some Red States, that is the reality.

That's why they're Red States. Voters don't like compromising Democratic politicians. They like the ones who stand for things -- or at least seem to as Republicans have for the past few decades.

What they stand for is less important than standing. But when Dems try to stand for the same things as Repos, the latter have the advantage since they're the real thing.

FRED from OR

Just pointing out what I see as a huge flaw in the 50 state strategy. Guess I just live in the wrong area....although my city is 60% Democratic. If we don't have two strong prongs (DNC reform and local party activists for reform), then things won't change.

Democrats will field more flaky candidates who won't stand up and operate from fear, and Democrats will lose the next few elections 2008 might be a watershed year simply because of the incompetence of the rethugs but I'm thinking longer term.

Indy Steve
Mon, 09/10/07
2:14 pm
__________________________________________________________________________

The bigger ? is will most of the American public be suckered by these traitors?  They were during Vietnam............without a draft and young people resisting this policy, things are too amicable right now...........I mean, they bought the wmd thing like a toddler does his parents........

Sitka

On that I agree wholeheartedly, Sitka. Framing one's stands in language that reflect local voters' interests is important too. But you must have a principled stand at first.

30.

Indy Steve
Mon, 09/10/07
2:14 pm

...will the Dems do more than a symbolic show of opposition?
-------

- "elites and party machine" not likely...,
- on "local level working for reform" (to whom Dean IS giving money away for the last several years) more likely, imo.

I feel like giving up the fight here in Florida.  Heard from some other DFAers who are feeling lost as well.  It is though why bother anymore.

Dean won the fight in FL. As for cleaning up your own state party, that's for you to decide to do or not. 

25.

Indy Steve
Mon, 09/10/07
2:07 pm


I see this battle over the Dem party more and more as an insider elite who want to control the party vs. those of us who want to open it up.
---------
...why not to "end it up"?

shorter and cheaper.., lol.

Dean is NOT rebuilding the party at state and local levels

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Not true here.

The fifty state staff in Iowa with our two staffers is reaching out to the Latino community and  doing rural outreach  in the very red Fifth in rural western Iowa. There are 2000 precincts in Iowa and I would believe that every one of them has at least one progressive reformer if they are just plugged in and I guarantee you that every time the DNC staff finds one they are delighted to assist..

excuse my language but I want us to get the h out of iraq.

wtf? how much more lies to u need? and the likes of whores like duncan hunter. They should be run out ot town.

How many more of our kids need to be killed?

My friends nephew is heading to iraq next week. They told them that the only way they were coming back soon was in a body bag.

our military has been taken over by idiots. Patreus is a disgraced person. Like McNamara. Like Westmoreland.

THROW THE BUMS OUT.

online voting:

http://www.vajoe.com/candidate_calculator.html

Answer the questions below to find the 2008 Presidental candidate that best aligns with your beliefs. Give it a try!

Mark the coulmn for 'Yes' if you support the issue and 'No' if you oppose it. After that, select how important the topic is to you. If you are unsure or have no opinion on a topic, just mark the unsure column. You will be scored based upon how well you match the current views of each of the 2008 presidental candidates. Click any topic for more information.

...

oh and their vehicle just rolled over.

• Story Highlights
• NEW: U.S. says nine insurgents killed in operation in Diyala province
  
• NEW: Curfew in Baghdad slightly shorter during coming month of Ramadan
  
• Vehicle rollover kills seven U.S. troops near Baghdad
  
• Twelve militants killed in fighting between troops and insurgents near Samarra
• Next Article in World »

BAGHDAD, Iraq (CNN) -- Seven U.S. troops were killed near Baghdad early Monday in a vehicle rollover accident, U.S. officials said.

U.S. troops question a man who was out after a curfew Sunday night in Baghdad.

Officials do not believe any hostile fire was involved. The location and name of the unit were not available as officials attempted to notify next of kin.

The U.S. military also said that a Task Force Lightning soldier died Sunday from injuries caused by rocket fire during a patrol in the northern Tameem province.

The number of U.S. military deaths in the Iraq war stands at 3,770, including seven civilian employees of the Defense Department.

Also Monday, 12 militants were killed in fighting between troops and insurgents just outside the northern city of Samarra, the U.S. military said.

The military said Iraqi and U.S. troops conducting a helicopter assault raid were confronted by militants from al Qaeda in Iraq. Insurgents fired at troops and wounded three U.S. soldiers, a statement

http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/09/10/iraq.main/index.html

43.

* rdorgan
Mon, 09/10/07
2:35 pm

That was fun -- Gravel, Kucinich, Obama in that order for me.

Candidate Calulator

Looks like I'll be voting for Kucinich. 

Sitka, isn't it nice to know all there is to know about all things?  I wish I did.  

Several of you here have all the answers to everything, mostly insulting answers.  And you just keep on hour after hour day after day.

33.

Sitka
Mon, 09/10/07
2:18 pm

What they stand for is less important than standing. But when Dems try to stand for the same things as Repos, the latter have the advantage since they're the real thing

================
I think that's true if there is a "tell them what they want to hear" mindset. People can see through it. But if you have a traditional Democrat, who is with the party on most core issues, but sincerely has more in synch with the great majority of local voters on or two conservative issues, that is not Repubican-lite, it is more of a shoe that fits the foot.

Sitka, isn't it nice to know all there is to know about all things?

I wouldn't know. 

Several of you here have all the answers to everything, mostly insulting answers.

You must be looking for insult to find one where it wasn't. You said you're about to give up and I replied it's your choice. Is it not?

(i) Forming a Constitutional Review Committee and then completing the constitutional review.

(ii) Enacting and implementing legislation on de-Ba’athification reform.

(iii) Enacting and implementing legislation to ensure the equitable distribution of hydrocarbon resources to the people of Iraq without regard to the sect or ethnicity of recipients, and enacting and implementing legislation to ensure that the energy resources of Iraq benefit Sunni Arabs, Shi’a Arabs, Kurds, and other Iraqi citizens in an equitable manner.

(iv) Enacting and implementing legislation on procedures to form semi-autonomous regions.

(v) Enacting and implementing legislation establishing an Independent High Electoral Commission, provincial elections law, provincial council authorities, and a date for provincial elections.

(vi) Enacting and implementing legislation addressing amnesty.

(vii) Enacting and implementing legislation establishing a strong militia disarmament program to ensure that such security forces are accountable only to the central government and loyal to the constitution of Iraq.

(viii) Establishing supporting political, media, economic, and services committees in support of the Baghdad Security Plan.

(ix) Providing three trained and ready Iraqi brigades to support Baghdad operations.

(x) Providing Iraqi commanders with all authorities to execute this plan and to make tactical and operational decisions in consultation with U.S. Commanders without political intervention to include the authority to pursue all extremists including Sunni insurgents and Shiite militias.

(xi) Ensuring that Iraqi Security Forces are providing even-handed enforcement of the law.

(xii) Ensuring that, as Prime Minister Maliki was quoted by President Bush as saying, "the Baghdad Security Plan will not provide a safe haven for any outlaws, regardless of [their] sectarian or political affiliation."

(xiii) Reducing the level of sectarian violence in Iraq and eliminating militia control of local security.

(xiv) Establishing all of the planned joint security stations in neighborhoods across Baghdad.

(xv) Increasing the number of Iraqi security forces units capable of operating independently.

(xvi) Ensuring that the rights of minority political parties in the Iraqi legislature are protected.

(xvii) Allocating and spending $10 billion in Iraqi revenues for reconstruction projects, including delivery of essential services, on an equitable basis.

(xviii) Ensuring that Iraq’s political authorities are not undermining or making false accusations against members of the ISF.

http://www.c-span.org/pdf/IRAQ_BENCHMARKS090707.pdf

45.

Yeah, someone pointed that out to me, that candidate calculator (hey it's a GI website but I got to admit it's the clearest, most concise issues calculator I've seen and agree it's fun).

Mine was Obama for first;  Biden and Gravel tied for second; Dodd, Edwards, Kucinich tied for third in that order.

 http://www.vajoe.com/candidate_calculator.html

my results in 51, based on this voting pattern:

2008 Presidental Issues ISSUEDo You Support?ImportanceAbortion RightsYes No Unsure HighMediumLowDeath PenaltyYes No Unsure HighMediumLowNo Child Left BehindYes No Unsure HighMediumLowEmbryonic Stem Cell ResearchYes No Unsure HighMediumLowANWR DrillingYes No Unsure HighMediumLowKyoto ProtocalYes No Unsure HighMediumLowAssault Weapons BanYes No Unsure HighMediumLowGun Background ChecksYes No Unsure HighMediumLowPatriot ActYes No Unsure HighMediumLowGuantanamoYes No Unsure HighMediumLowWater Boarding of CaptivesYes No Unsure HighMediumLowCitizen Path for IllegalsYes No Unsure HighMediumLowBorder FenceYes No Unsure HighMediumLowInternet NeutralityYes No Unsure HighMediumLowIran SanctionsYes No Unsure HighMediumLowIran Military ActionYes No Unsure HighMediumLowSupport Iraq WarYes No Unsure HighMediumLowIncrease Minimum WageYes No Unsure HighMediumLowSame Sex MarriageYes No Unsure HighMediumLowUniversal Health CareYes No Unsure HighMediumLowFree TradeYes No Unsure HighMediumLowSchool VouchersYes No Unsure HighMediumLowPrivatizing Social SecurityYes No Unsure HighMediumLowFINISH

Tom Harkin will be the focus of our statewide efforts and the DNC staff will not play an internal role but will be intregal to efforts in areas that would be skipped over in targeted campaigning.

every vote counts the same

it is easier to deliver 600 votes in an old reliable precinct than 60 in each of ten red ones so the question becomes where is a dedicated volunteer more valuable delivering 20 votes in the red precinct or 20 of the 60 that don't vote with out prodding in the 600 vote one

the answer? the same

except that the big Democratic precinct will always get attention but the other won't; so the volunteer becomes the critical force  in the red precinct (or State from Howard's view) 

so the DNC looking for those ten volunteers is irreplaceable but all part of the larger scheme

you (the activist volunteer) going to them rather than having them come to you is what we are discussing; and report for duty anywhere and you will be welcomed

52 didn't copy well, so here is my voting results:

Yes:

Abortion Rights, Embryonic Stem Cell Research, Kyoto Protocol, Assault Weapons Ban, Gun Background Checks, Patriot Act, Citizen Path for Illegals, Internet Neutrality, Iran Sanctions, Increase Minimum Wage, Same Sex Marriage, Universal Health Care

No:

Dealth Penalty, No Child Left Behind, ANWR Drilling, Guantanamo, Water Boarding of Captives, Border Fence, Iran Military Action, Support Iraq War, Free Trade, School Vouchers, Privitatizing Social Security

* rdorgan
Mon, 09/10/07
2:53 pm

Something wrong with that site...right-winger. I am NOT going to vote for Romney and have very little in common with his views!! LOL.

Phil you shamed me into signing up online to volunteer even tho I'm not a Dem anymore. We'll see what happens.

I normally task new people to help elect someone who has the best chance of succeeding; and I task old hand die hards to try and win the tough ones because they can handle losing.

right now I am working with each of the staffers in turn and since they are paid (though not enough) I send them into a tough precinct first and then help them with some easier work just to get them to see the difference and we can talk after a basic knowledge of the local area

every campaign trying to get caucus recruits faces a task not unlike finding volunteers in a red area as none have majority support

from the point of view of any one candidate and any one precinct they are all "red" equivalents

I am NOT going to vote for Romney and have very little in common with his views!!

A latent romnyite??? I've always suspected you, Indy. 

rdorgan,

I had the same voting preference as you did with exception of free trade (I voted unsure because I'm not against trade, just want fair trade!). And all the rethugs came up high with Gravel, Kucinich 1st and 2nd. It's bogus.

Indy Steve -

Huh ? What makes you think you'll end up voting for Romney ?

a HOWARDLY to you Annilow!

wOOt!

Sitka

LOL. You wish!!

It's Kucinich, Obama and Gravel for me...except i don't trust Obama!

This Betrayus fiasco is just that.  Unless Gore comes in or Kucinich pulls off a miracle, we'll be spilling blood for many years.  Dodd perhaps would get us out.  

How well  can  any of these people stand up to the powers behind the scenes? 

Annilow, my problem isn't stiffness, it's awful aching in my knees.  Ådvil does  nothing for it. Yoga removes the stiffness but the aching is something new....so we'll see...

The surge confusion really bothers me.
What is working has nothing to do with the surge. We cannot provide security. The locals have to provide their own security. Our main job is to arm them and to help the locals deal with the real heavy duty killers using our own special ops folks. As the folks become more secure in their own areas, then fund the reconstruction. We can do this by proxy. All the surge does is prevent the Iraq folks from taking over and gives them convenient targets; us.
This is the inkblot method where each hamlet or village is encouraged to support us. It is a very light footprint, requires minimal force and activity, and gets us out quickly without leaving a lot of dead people around.

59.

Indy -

All the repubs were at the lower middle and bottom of the list for me after hitting the candidate calculator's Finish:

+++

91.30% match

You will want to keep close attention to these candidates thru election day.

If your top choices aren't in the running, keep an eye on these candidates in 2008.

You won't be getting on the campaign trail with these candidates anytime soon.

* rdorgan
Mon, 09/10/07
3:08 pm

Romney came up third and I voted the same as you did with the exception of free trade. It all depends how the author ranks the candidates. I suspect he is making sure that Gravel and Kucinich come up top, then a rethug.

61. Thx Phil but I haven't done anything yet -- my neighbor across the way is a Dem but I believe she may be the only one in town.

3771

Annilow, my problem isn't stiffness, it's awful aching in my knees.  Ådvil does  nothing for it. Yoga removes the stiffness but the aching is something new....so we'll see...

Have you tried walking? It's good for everything. 

59.

Indy -

If I solely flip Free Trade NO to that of YES, I still don't get any repubs near the top of the list.

I suspect he is making sure that Gravel and Kucinich come up top, then a rethug.

I voted the standard liberal positions and rated them important so it kicked to Kucinich. If you voted for conservative positions or didn't rate the liberal ones as important, of course the machine is going to send you to a Republican --  or the Democrat equivalent of one.

Indy -

I left all the issues with the default Medium.  Did you do something different ?

well, off for now

bbl

not true Annilow you did take a step

in my trainings I try to tell my volunteers to value that first step the highest of all when someone joins

cherish it really, because no one will poll watch, or door knock, or phone bank if they aren't welcomed the first time

Thank you.

bbl

oops. never mind. I was looking at the wrong list! Romney will still not get my vote!

A drop by...

I'm with Indy Steve.  Nobody is above constructive criticism, even Howard.  Where the Florida problem began was when instead of really fixing the primary/caucus system, the DNC just assuaged the egos of a couple of red state parties (Nevada and SC) by shoving them in  early.  Howard could have fought for real change and enforced it on the states, instead of waiting for everyone to maneuver within the rules, moving up their primaries, to the point where they maneuvered outside of even the ineffective rules that existed.

Next point...I'm not sure what your point was, lindab, in 44, but it rubbed me the wrong way, since every time I see a story like that I worry that I know the casualty.  Using casualties to make political points just rubs me the wrong way, on either side.

I don't know if everyone's seeing them, but here in the DC area we're getting these "support the war" ads that feature injured veterans and the families of casualties.  I find those just as, if not more, disgusting.

Finally, the limited success in Anbar and Diyala began before the surge and has to do with tactics that predate the surge.  The surge troops went to Baghdad.  Baghdad is Not Anbar or Diyala.

Nobody is above constructive criticism, even Howard.

I'm sure he agrees. 

How come it's only the little old ladies that protest? When I did our local protest 2 weeks ago everyone was a female -- maybe one under 50 but not much under 50.

In that article I linked from Mike Allen this morning of the phone call among anti-war folks, believe it was Woolsey of CA who commented that people ARE talking on the web, but we're not protesting in the streets, so we're not as visibile.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/090...

IndySteve Howdy. I disagree that Al Gore had to enter by labor day or immediately.

My goodness, we just had folks declaring their candidacy by June to September the last time and they didn't have the name recognition that Al Gore has.

No, I'm sorry if you put a deadline so early, but even the experts in the field no Al Gore has plenty of time to enter. Most say by the end of October....some say later, I just am not that optimistic.

But I do believe he can and will enter. Especially after that Vanity Fair interview about the 2000 election and the talk from Tipper.

I think the time is right...OH, Time for a COOL change? :)

Hey ya'll, how can it take that test when our candidate isn't even listed?

Seashell -- well I hope you feel better --
Phil - sounds like a Democratic 12 step program lol.

76. rich^kolker

======
We're getting a lot of them down here, in Southern Oregon, and they make me puke. Mostly, it's people or relatives of people dead or disabled by the war, like asking not to "let the terrorists get away with it...after we've sacrificed so much..."

references to 9/11 too. This region is more rednect-republican and big amphetamine problem area. The sports games too often cancel/postone the Sunday morning news shows.

Just saw this on KOS

URGENT: Senate Vote Could Block Mexican Truck Program - Take Action
by TeamsterPower [Subscribe]

Mon Sep 10, 2007 at 12:19:21 PM PDT

The Senate is expected to take up the 2008 transportation appropriations bill soon. And as early as this evening, Sen. Byron Dorgan, D-ND, will introduce an amendment that would block funding for Bush's illegal Mexican Truck pilot program.

Tell your senators to support the Dorgan amendment now.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/9/10/...

Hey ya'll, how can it take that test when our candidate isn't even listed?

Just sampling the appetizers before the main course.

IndySteve Howdy. I disagree that Al Gore had to enter by labor day or immediately.

Me too. Better late than......well, anything. 

69.

Sitka
Mon, 09/10/07
3:14 pm

Have you tried walking? It's good for everything.
----

OOOOOOOOO.........HHHHHHHHHH..., that's a luxury!

One has to have TIME(!!!) to do it.

84.

Byron Dorgan introduced information about the Mexican truck bill while everyone was watching the lying BeTrayUs and the lying U.S. ambassador to Iraq. But this bill is one to watch closely.

I doubt any vote will take place on his bill until they finish the Appropriations bill which won't be until next. The Senate is out of class for another holiday from Thurs. to next Monday. I was in the wrong business for sure:))

The CIA has stated that 'it is Bin Laden's voice"... on the video.

Steiner was hardly the first or last victim  ….One of the most memorable is Colin Powell stating "I am being treated well by my captors." "They chose to have him say something he would never otherwise have said," they chuckled…http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/national/dotmil/arkin020199.htm

Getting close to home - we get oil from Mexico..

AP-- Mexican gas and oil pipelines were attacked in six places before dawn Monday, causing explosions, fires and gas leaks that forced the evacuation of thousands of people....

Linda*in*SFNM
Mon, 09/10/07
3:49 pm

Who entered last time in after Labor Day...just Wes Clark and he didn't go very far. There are just simple logistics involved even if you have name recognition. Many in Iowa and NH are committed and aren't likely to change. It takes organizers on the ground to win in a caucus state. And money, of course, it will take vast sums raised by January to win in California and the other big states on Feb. 5.

We can disagree...but I think Labor Day was the latest for me to accept. Otherwise, I think he gets negatives for waiting longer.

90. Oh come on. The only one that paints these kind of restrictions wasn't seriuosly thinking about him to begin with. He get's negatives for waiting? How many boxes would we like to squeeze in our ideal plan for someone else.

If he gets in, it is because he has heard the pleas and support around the country and world asking him to. And if (when) he gets in, he is saying I hear you and I agree. What more powerful statement is that? Because he didn't enter when YOU thought it was the perfect time, that's it? Isn't that ridiculous?

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Sen. Larry Craig, R-Idaho, mistakenly pleaded guilty to disorderly conduct because he was under stress from a newspaper investigation into claims that he is gay, according to court papers filed Monday."


Doesn't Larry keep digging a deep hole for himself?

I mean really, what does that say that a newspaper investigated claims of him being gay, before this sting operation was conducted that threw him in to a tizzy?

Isn't somebody asking, "what do you hope to accomplish here?"

Annilow, my problem isn't stiffness, it's awful aching in my knees.  Ådvil does  nothing for it. Yoga removes the stiffness but the aching is something new....so we'll see...

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

sea,

Im in ironman training.........I take 3 ibuprofen after workouts these days.......works great.....take my word for it...........

yes

It is offensive that our commander-in-chief has ordered a four-star general to mislead

It's also so disgusting that it is hard to contemplate.

94. Yes, Monica, but it was hard work finding a General that could be bought. Look how many they've gone through, not to mention Admirals.

OK guys, God is really p!ssed off. It's HAILING AGAIN.

92. What it says to me is that somebody was out to get him. He must have done something to signal he was off the reservation and, like Feeney in Florida, they decided to destroy him. Feeney, you'll recall, announced that he was getting out of the House. Then they persuaded him to run for one more term and destroyed his reputation.
Why would they do that? To send a message to all the others they have by the short hairs that they'd better perform as directed or face the same ruinous consequences. Remember that Republicans used to argue that gays could not be permitted to hold "sensitive" positions because they were liable to be blackmailed. They knew what they were talking about.

I still haven't figured out what to call blackmail that involves coercion where something NOT happening is a benefit.

Imagine someone relaying the message that if you don't do that, we won't do the other.
Of course, not taking a vote that might provide a benefit to a large number of constituents could be characterized as negligence or simple inattention. How do you prove a motive? Escaping embarassment is self-preservation. How do you even consider that a crime?
Who knew that "just say no" had so many philosophical implications?

93.

Michael Ellis
Mon, 09/10/07
4:33 pm

Im in ironman training.........I take 3 ibuprofen after workouts these days.......works great.....take my word for it...........

=================

Mike, I know you're interested, so I'll give you an update.

Just about any drugs are becoming off-limits for me. My digestive has developed a reaction to the valium too, now - over the counter pain relievers started giving me problems long ago, but now the problems seem to be getting chronic and taking months to go away. Worse part is in the morning or middle of the night. Last time ibuprofen bothered me for a day or two, but that was years ago before other drugs started bothering me for months after taking one - mostly lower abdominal aching and some nausea, mostly from solid food.

I know this sounds incredible, but MCS has always seemed incredible to me, since it started in 1998. At this point just glad to be alive. Seem to be developing more food allergies too, although MCS is not an immune-system-type allergy.

Just a drive-by as I'm heading to a meeting but had some fun with calculator above...I voted me heart and Kucinich beat out Gravel...I'm OK with that...then I voted for everything I was against at medium...Fred Thompson was a 100% match...LOL

97. It is true that it seems they weren't going to tolerate what they perceived as weakness for the party. But regardless of their actions, the fact that they've all been covering what is-at best, hypocritical behaviors and that because of their hate and divisiveness, given the truth about his secret lifestyle, the VOTERS are saying no more Larry.

I also didn't realize he got married to quiet down the first round of talks of him being Gay back in the 80's. Look how mean and hateful he's got since then. Wouldn't he have been better off not living a lie and being much happier. Instead of turning in to that Nasty Naughty Bad Boy himself.


Now, Monica on the other person mention, is there something you know that we don't that you are trying to tell us?
Teenie Foley=Feenie? :)

Oh wait,
Teenie Foley=Feeney? :)

96. Linda*in*SFNM

OK guys, God is really p!ssed off. It's HAILING
=====================

Had hail a week or two ago in SouthWest Oregon size of dimes and nickels, mostly dimes. West of Cascades usually referred to as simply "Southern Oregon," because there nothing but desert east of the Cascades, like Nevada and almost nobody lives there.

100. Oh, I just got the name wrong. I have to admit I don't pay too much attention to the individuals, just the pattern of intimidation.

Feelings of guilt often prompt people to lean over backwards to "prove" they have nothing to feel guilty about. That's why I consider guilt a really destructive and socially useless emotion.

The strategies of manipulation practiced by Republicans are really disgusting. I guess Craig finally discovered that no matter how hard he tried to hide, he wasn't going to be safe.

Thanks for the advice.  I AM walking waist deep in water every day.  Can't walk cuz doctor wants little to no weight on hip.  Advil does little but it'll get better.  We 're being drastic cuz I have a dancing trip to Las Vegas on the 20th and 2 weeks after that, Argentina.  So we're hitting this hard, hence the no walking, dancing etc.  And my doctor is an acupuncturist and a great one.

Not to worry.  I'm getting better.  OK, enuf about my aches and pains.

Watching CSPAN is painful.  How can so many people be so deluded?  As much as I bash our dems, the repugs are past reprehensible.  They are obstructing just to be partisan and revengeful and that makes them anti-American.  I can't believe they value their egos over the safety of our troops.  

Throw most of the bums out.

I have to turn of the TV and meditate since listening to this idiocy is maddening.  And Boehner is now talking about 9/11....delusional.

bbl  

Pelosi is up.  Why is she talking about 9/11?  Åre we not on Petreaus anymore? 

FYI, the critters are recessing for the Jewish New Year.   How about working instead FOR THE PEOPLE.  Jeeezch!

Fred, yes, I remember you saying that. I was thankful we weren't getting it for a change and actually allowed my tomatoes to grow and not get beaten up.

You should have seen me standing guard trying to cover them. Hubby got upset and said he really wished I wouldn't do that, it's not worth it. "What if softball size hail started coming down". I told him it absolutely was worth it. I need to rescue what ever tomatoes I can. This is a good example of how we lose our food supply from extremem weather. Besides, as I told him, he's reminded me I have such a soft head, if softball size hail came down, it would only bounce off of me. :)


gotta' go look at tile. bbl

Petraeus:

His two previous Iraq tours, one as a two-star general commanding the 101st Airborne Division in the northern city of Mosul, another as a three-star general in Baghdad leading the effort to rebuild Iraq’s security forces, drew praise at the time.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/14/world/middleeast/14petraeus.html?pagewanted=2&ei=5070&en=b054853c4c598116&ex=1189569600

I guess Gen BetrayUs gets a star for every tour in Iraq. I suspect there is bigger payoff than just a star however. We will probably never know for sure.

I regard him as a scumbag for trading our own soldiers deaths and the tremendous cost to our close to bankrupt country. Nothing is worth all this.

End the war NOW!

Just got September issue of OUR TOXIC TIMES. Case definition of MCS has finally been assembled by the task force of experts after three years, with their final meeting in Burlingame, CA. The document is being embargoed until publication.

Next step will be asking Congress to accept and declare the Case Definition so that federal funding and federal agencies will be available for research.

Dodd in the spin room

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lWDsaHDlv...

I don't think Petraeus is lying - I think he's delusional.

I think I agree, Jo. Their tours in country are so brief that they have no idea what's going on.
Al Qaeda in Anbar was a figment of the tribal chief's imagination. Whenever an IED went off, they blamed Al Qaeda and then sent the Marines of to the houses of some guy against whom they had a grudge.
Anyway, the advantage about a figment of the imagination is that it can vanish as quickly as it arrived. Poof!! "All the alQaeda in Iraq are gone. We have vanquished them!" "Now, will you give us the weapons we were promised?"

108. the spouse, who's into such things, says they've invented all kinds of medal for people just being in Iraq. He's complained about medal-mania for a long time.

They're all delusional.

Out Now!  Now!  

I called Sen. smith, was dumped into voice mail and was cut off in 15 seconds.  Did I already post this?  I took a pain pill awhile ago.  LOL 

In Congressional Appearance, Petraeus Reads from White House/FOX News Script Based on Fiction. Nothing to See Here, He Tells Us, Just Keep Failed Leadership Leading a Failed War by Blowing Another 50 Billion Dollars and Countless Lives. Move Along. I'm a Good Yes Man. I'm Here Because the White House Took a Poll and Found the Public Would Believe a Military Commander Over the Incompetent Leaders Really Running This War. I'll Get My Promotion. It's Worth It. Screw the Truth. 9/11

AND THE DEMOCRATS ARE ASSUMING THE FETAL POSITION!

114. WHEN DO YOU RESUME DANCING?????????

108.End the war NOW!

oR

108.End the war NOW!

oR

Let's try thisagain:

108.End the war NOW!

Or as Monica insists, End the occupation NOW!

http://www.firstworldwar.com/audio/Reina...

new thread

http://blogforamerica.com/view/22152#com...

Hey, Michael....I'm down with you on the ibuprofen - 800 mg. is great (prescription) - the pain goes away, but you're not zonkers.