Howard Dean is still #1.

BUT, Ted Nixon is a close second! Ted is someone I met at the very first Dean Meet Up in Rochester in early 2003. Ted stands for everything Dean stood for and is making his second run for Monroe County Legislature. Ted didn't win in 2005, but one of the things the campaign was able to brag about was support from DFA friends all across the US.

We want to be able to brag again in 2007. Check out http://www.tednixon.com and think about making a small contribution to his campaign. While you're on our website, please check out the video and audio!!

117.

Phil Specht
Sun, 09/09/07
8:22 am

....
Things would get very tense in Washington if the people of this nation rose up and nominated someone who would turn a former President over to the Hague.
---------

Well, people should change constitution first..., before doing that..., I guess..., lol.

Kerry describes  

partition

in Iraq.

Says the (failed) Bush Admin in effect accepts de facto partition of southeastern Iraq to the Iranians.

Kerry describes

yet another tape by the Bin Laden criminal network

as an insult to the world.

BushCo Failure  

Cookthebooks cokie Roberts

pumps up the Ronald Regan delusion

because she knows that smoke and mirrors is all there is for her REpug party stalling the voter' drift away. 

cokie Roberts must be a stinkin' shrew in private.

Get her and others like katie Couric OFF the AIR.

Turn the tide and do a REpug Kstreeting.

The people rose up in 2006 to stop bushco, many wishing for orange jumpsuits for the traitors. It is just mind boggling that so many Dems are putty to this administration...we need someone willing to take them on and someone with honesty and integrity to lead the party...not asking too much am I of a person to lead the free world?

I guess I'm heading over to the Extreme Makeover to volunteer some time hanging sheetrock...there was a plea in the paper they are short of people today...was going fishing but heck, a lot of people to talk to there ; )

Go for it, Reed.  Sounds like good activism. 

Wonderin' if you have to be or to what degree you need be subtle. 

29.

Sitka
Sat, 09/08/07
9:27 pm


...After battling FRED over the Biden plan for so long I'm not about to fall for what amounts to the same thing -- which is just another Bush-lite plan from a Republi-Dem.

Out.

Now.

Nothing less.

========================

"battling Fred" good description, battling is all he does. Discussion never enters the picture.

This guy is paranoid, and anyone on this blog who supports his narrow-minded disposition loaded with false innuendo is also paranoid.

Oh I'll feel out the situation Paine, I can read people very well...sold at the flea market for years don't ya know.

OMG Reed,  retail s^cks, but ya do get a bead on people.  Will look for you on TV when the show airs

IF you let us know when.  The is no other reason for me to tune in to that show, if you ain'a on, if truth be told. 

American jobs

Sep 7th 2007 | WASHINGTON, DC
From Economist.com

WHATEVER your opinion of the health of America’s economy was a couple of days ago, it should now be a lot gloomier. The monthly jobs figures for August, released on Friday September 7th, were worse, far worse, than anyone expected. The economy lost 4000 jobs last month, the first monthly loss of jobs since August 2003. Already jittery financial markets headed down. The Dow Jones Industrial Average fell almost 250 points or 1.87%. The dollar sank at the prospect of weaker economy and lower interest rates.

[...]

For months, solid job growth, rising incomes and low unemployment have been the foundation for an optimistic assessment of the economy’s prospects. With jobs plentiful, the argument went, even a sharp housing bust need not derail the broader economy. That foundation may now be crumbling. There is little doubt that the housing market was worsening, once again, before the August turmoil. The pace of new home construction plunged in July, while the stock of unsold homes rose to a 16-year high. Now it seems that the labour market was weakening too. A weaker labour market, in turn, is likely to worsen the housing bust as more people find it hard to pay their mortgages. Pile a sharp tightening in credit conditions on top and recession seems all too plausible.

That spectre is why it is all but certain that the Federal Reserve will cut the federal funds rate, its benchmark short-term interest rate, on September 18th. The speculation now is whether the cut will be a modest quarter-point, bringing the funds rate down to 5%, or a more aggressive half percentage point cut. Unfortunately, if the employment figures are a harbinger of what is to come, it may already be too late to stave off a nasty slowdown.

Reed, great idea about the signs. Smart.

Good luck with the Extreme Makeover house. My sister went to the one in Columbus for it's "unveiling". A lot of people and coverage.

Folks are not happy with what is going on. They are not happy with the choices being offered.

Yesterday when I went to my fav restaurant and was changing the flier in the window and added a couple buttons to it, I have a couple folks aproach me with so much excitement. One person saw me doing it and yelped out "Al Gore", is he coming? Then I actually told him he IS coming next month to Rio Rancho, but then explained what the flier was about. He was very excited and while we were talking another woman came up asking if she heard us talking about Al Gore, then I explained to her as well. We all talked and got more excited and they both asked for buttons.

The the other woman said, she is so worried that nothing is being done. She heard just last week that the scientist found a huge melting in the artic twice the size of England.

We need bold changes and we can't wait any longer. We face too many crisis.

Time for a COOL change,
Gore
2008

The flea market is not really like retail Paine, in fact it's kinda fun wheeling and dealing with all the characters. A wad of money in your pocket for a days work ain't bad either, I just got burnt out trying to do it along with my regular jobs.

I don't think they show the grunge workers on the show, maybe just in passing. I'll let you know later.

Hi Linda...would chat but gotta head out now...I'm really confusing people now, got an Al Gore bumper sticker and Mike Gravel yard signs...both meet my criteria.

17. LOL

Hi Reed! Enjoy.

I really think Al Gore is going to enter the race. And he is DEFINITELY seeing and hearing the support.

He has started changing his talk now that his obligations are completed and is now doing some more presentations. He is now discussing possibly re-entering politics and he gave that big interview to Vanity Fair lastweek duscussing the 2000 election and getting that out there.

Then there is the part where his wife, Tipper, acknowledges if he turns to her and run for the presidency, but adds that if he turned to her one night and said he had to run, she'd get on board, and they'd discuss how to approach it this time around, given what they've learned."

Nobel Peace Prize will be issued October 14 and then he can declare.

I will be ready!

19, a little inside out, but you gather what I'm saying.

I started to write and then decided to copy word for word what Tipper said, sorry. :)

"Richardson's strongest support is in conservative eastern and northwestern N.M."

NGOs Unite on Earth’s Greatest Crisis

by Thalif Deen

UNITED NATIONS — A three-day meeting of over 2,500 delegates from more than 500 non-governmental organizations (NGOs) and representing 80 countries affirmed that climate change “is potentially the most serious threat humanity and our environment have ever faced.”

A declaration adopted Friday warns that global warming can possibly have a devastating impact on virtually all aspects of life in the planet, including “catastrophic effects on our earth’s ecosystem, biodiversity and infrastructure.”

Among other potential threats singled out were: the significant reduction of available food, water, energy and transport; massive migration of populations and the possible destruction of entire cultures and small island nations; significant damage to economic, political, cultural and social bases; and irreversible harm to the lifestyles of indigenous peoples.

http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2007/09/08/3708/

 

I hope that congressional Democrats recognize betrayus for what  he is--a Republican Politician with a chest full of medals; and I hope they have the balls to call him on it.

I doubt they'll do either, the wimps!

New diary on KOS--alternative media effort

14.

Time for a COOL change,
Gore
2008

Absolutely, just wish it would happen, but prolly too late now.

Every time I read a report on the ice caps, it claims it is now melting much faster than the last time they reported on it a month or so ago. It is alarming.

People are still not taking this very seriously in this country as they are in many other countries. Al Gore's movie, the big rally, and DiCaprio's movie out now -- too many here are simply burying their heads in the sand as they did when they "elected" Bush.

Who can blame Al for not running. He's got a great life now doing what he always wanted to do and making big money.

I have an idea! Maybe we could convince Leo DiCaprio to run for prez, he gets it. Just a thought.

Amid the disaster of their Middle Eastern strategy Bush and his advisors may hype themselves into one last desperate throw, emboldened by the fact that the selling of the surge has been a success even though all the Democrats need to do is cite the UN, which says the number of Iraqis fleeing their homes has gone from 50,000 to 60,000 a month. Or quote Associated Press which counted 1,809 Iraqi civilians killed in August, compared with 1,760 in July. The Sunni split in Anbar province is not one likely to be replicated in Baghdad or elsewhere and anyway had nothing to do with the hike in US troop levels. Bush didn't dare go to Baghdad.

Weigh it all up, and you'd be foolish to bet that an attack on Iran won't happen. I knew Noam Chomsky used to be dubious about the likelihood of a U.S. attack and emailed him last week to ask if he is still of that opinion. Here's his answer.

Yes, I was quite sceptical. Less so over the years. They're desperate. Everything they touch is in ruins. They're even in danger of losing control over Middle Eastern oil -- to China, the topic that's rarely discussed but is on every planner or corporation exec's mind, if they're sane. Iran already has observer status at the Shanghai Cooperation Organization -- from which the US was pointedly excluded. Chinese trade with Saudi Arabia, even military sales, is growing fast. With the Bush administration in danger of losing Shiite Iraq, where most of the oil is (and most Saudi oil in regions with a harshly oppressed Shiite population), they may be in real trouble.

Under these circumstances, they're unpredictable. They might go for broke, and hope they can salvage something from the wreckage. If they do bomb, I suspect it will be accompanied by a ground assault in Khuzestan, near the Gulf, where the oil is (and an Arab population -- there already is an Ahwazi liberation front, probably organized by the CIA, which the US can "defend" from the evil Persians), and then they can bomb the rest of the country to rubble. And show who's boss.

The peace movement had better pull itself together, remembering that should the bombs start to fall on Tehran, most of the Democrats in Congress will be on their feet, cheering.

Homeland security

Sep 6th 2007 | WASHINGTON, DC
From The Economist print edition

http://www.economist.com/world/na/displaystory.cfm?story_id=9767834

[...]

American efforts aside, al-Qaeda's desire to cause spectacular damage to internationally prominent monuments, a tricky goal, goes some way to explaining America's success at avoiding attack. It took Osama bin Laden nearly a decade to bring down the twin towers after his organisation first tried in 1993. The vastness of the Atlantic and the Pacific also continue to provide some measure of safety. Brian Jenkins, a senior adviser at RAND, a think-tank, offers two more possibilities: the Muslim-American community seems to be inhospitable to violent extremism; and jihadists might not want to enrage a public that is tiring of America's commitments in Iraq and Afghanistan.

It is clear that American policymakers have not rendered the United States invulnerable to terrorist attack, particularly small-scale operations. There is little to stop a few extremists with machine guns from shooting up a mall, hurting American commerce briefly. Stopping more ambitious attacks, meanwhile, is still probably at least as much a matter of luck as of skill. So far, America has been blessed with a bit of both.

5.  I think Cokie was permanently traumatized by the disappearance of her dad in a small plane over Alaska.  Probably feels guilty about her suspicions, too.

You've heard of Stockholm syndrome. 

With respect to Iran, most Democrats appear to be completely intimidated by AIPAC, which is effectively dictating this country's ME policy.

Carl Levin, the "Senator from Israel" sent me a really offensive email in response to my criticism  of his anti-Iran statements. The response was replete with unsubstantiated charges against Iran concerning it's "imminent threat" to the US and Israel. I expect better than Admimistration talking points and Zionist bullshit from my senior senator.

Iraqi Kurdistan

Sep 6th 2007 | ERBIL AND SULAYMANIYAH
From The Economist print edition

http://www.economist.com/world/africa/displaystory.cfm?story_id=9769132

[...] 

Is it possible to feel both Kurdish and Iraqi? A former long-serving minister in Iraq's Kurdish government, who is a noted historian, barely blinks. “Frankly, no.” Then, after a pause, he adds: “If Iraq ever became truly democratic, maybe.”

Masrur Barzani, the 38-year-old intelligence chief and possible future head of the Barzani clan, recommends a “three-state solution”, presumably meaning that Iraq, which he calls “the illusion of a country that doesn't really exist”, should one day be divided into a three-way confederation. To most Iraqi Kurds, the emergence of a kindly, federal, Arab-run Iraq in which they could have a comfy existence is an absurd prospect.

Briefly after the Ottoman Turks' empire collapsed, the Kurds seemed in reach of a homeland of their own—only to be betrayed by the great powers, Britain to the fore. Now they are enjoying a golden age of not-quite-independence for longer than at any time in their modern history. So why would they risk a reversion to a past of subjugation by Arabs, Turks or Persians?

If they are sensible, the Kurds will not rush towards independence. To be landlocked and without permanently friendly neighbours is a pretty hopeless recipe for statehood. The outside powers on which the Kurds ultimately depend, especially Turkey and the United States, would not allow them to break away. The Turks could throttle them economically if not bash them militarily; the Americans may well turn their backs, reckoning that it is strategically more important to curry favour with Turks and Arabs.

But if the Iraqi Kurds can bed down quietly for, say, five or ten years, securing their borders, making their economy work, building a modicum of freedom if not full-fledged democracy, and staying out of the trouble swirling around them in the rest of Iraq, it will be increasingly impossible for the rest of the world to ignore their patently rightful claim to self-determination. They have at least a chance of getting it.

29.

Huron John

AMAZING. Carl Levin needs REPLACED-Big Time!

Michigan....PLEASE!!!

The only thing I can think of is a one-liner:

Jettison her off the plane. 

Huron John
Sun, 09/09/07
11:09 am
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

And THATS our downfall.....................

24.

Monica

Nice post on KOS. I printed it out for other half -- a Dodd supporter.

Our newspaper, The Dalytona Beach News-Journal, carried the AP's "Dodd: I'll end Cuba embargo" story this morning. The story came from Coral Gables via AP (Jessica Gresko).

That may not have set well with the Cubans down there, but most of them are Americanized now and not part of the hardcore original refugees. One point Dodd is not touching on because he doesn't have to is the tremendous amount of businesses in the U.S. who want trade with Cuba. There is a huge market for us there, particularly farmers. Businesses already know his stand on this.

Morning Folks,

Watching Bill Moyers' Journal on Friday, there was a lawyer who was an attorney general in the Justice Department whose job it was was to make sure that the wiretapping and tortur this administration engaged in fell within the law.  The fellow seemed to be all law and dubious ethics.  What he did say though was how frightened the administration was.  Everyday Cheney, Bush, Addison, etc. talked about 9/11 and Al Qaeda.  They were terrified that the US would be attacked again.

I hadn't thought about the fear that the Bush  Administration had.  Instead I focused on the fear that they were perpetrating on the country.  But, if as the lawyer said, they were that frightened, it explains some of their actions.  A fearful, ignorant administration can do terrible damage, which they have done.

We have a mess on our hands.  We have broken Iraq, broken our reputation in the world, broken alliances that would advise, help, and join with us, broken our treasury, are in the process of breaking our economy, have broken our military.  Is there anything that George Bush hasn't broken?

Still, what do we do?  While I want us out of Iraq immediately, the reality of the situation is that we won't be able to extricate ourselves from the chaos, the damage, and the destruction we have caused.  This administration is as blind, dumb, arrogant, and incompetent as any we have ever had and now we are in a far more complex, dangerous, and consequential world.

I feel that the Republican party has bamboozled the citizens of this country since Reagan, with image, emptiness, false presentations, and a puppet for a president.  We the people have been taken on rides with these Republicans, and I wonder sincerely, if there is any intelligence, any courage, and strength left in the citizens of this country to oppose and defeat these criminal charlatans and restore ethics, responsibility, and the intelligent and scrupulous oversight necessary for a healthy and just country. 

3. Previous thread - Monica thanks for the link to the citation - I missed it the first time. Guess if Dodd's people say it's OK to be in FL then it's OK to be in FL.

============

I stuck with CSPAN this morning, the MTP's and George S looking pretty commercial. At 9:30 they had Robert Reid, Bureau Chief for AP for one half hour. I hate to summarize what he said because he sounded so erudite I cannot convey it properly. btw Reid went to Davidson College in NC according to Peter Slen. Anyway, he said the AP compound was outside the green zone and they had their own security. One thing that stuck with me was that he compared the benchmarks to having a foreign power in USA a year after Civil War saying we would give 40 acres and a mule, voting rights, etc -- in other words, having an outside power telling us what we had to do -- he said that it wasn't so much that the Iraqi gov't wouldn't do anything -- but that the things that they were deciding were so fundamental. I wish I could be more complete in reporting -- I shoulda taken notes. It's not that Robert Reid said so, but based on stuff I've heard in the last week generally, I'm no longer sure that an immediate pullout of Iraq is the right thing to do. I guess I'm a Pottery Barn person and we broke it and we ought to fix it -- altho it also seems like we're just 'in the way' sometimes.

36. Bureau Chief s/b Baghdad Bureau Chief

26.

Huron John
Sun, 09/09/07
11:01 am

...They're desperate. Everything they touch is in ruins.... they're unpredictable. They might go for broke, and hope they can salvage something from the wreckage....

The peace movement had better pull itself together, remembering that should the bombs start to fall on Tehran, most of the Democrats in Congress will be on their feet, cheering.
-----------

Yep, Chomsky is the "brain", no wonder Osama respect him..., lol.

"to pull itself together" WITHOUT "central command" (e.g. Party) is not easy..., but is a good test for this movement.

35.  You know, Pat, there are a whole lot of competent, inventive and energetic people in the world who could with just a fraction of the money we're wasting in Iraq put the place back together.

It seems to me that Americans shouldn't even bother trying until AFTER they've managed to rebuild something worthwhile on the WTC site.  It's been what?  Six years. 

New York

Sep 6th 2007 | NEW YORK
From The Economist print edition

http://www.economist.com/world/na/displaystory.cfm?story_id=9767800

[...]

35.

Pat in Colorado
Sun, 09/09/07
11:17 am

....
I feel that the Republican party has bamboozled the citizens of this country since Reagan, with image, emptiness, false presentations, and a puppet for a president. We the people have been taken on rides with these Republicans,...
----------

It should be CLEAR to everyone FOR NOW that to credit all of the above to the Republican Party only won't reflect reality.
Both Parties took us on these rides.

25.

Joan* In*Florida

14.

Time for a COOL change,
Gore
2008


Howdy Joan. Yes, it does seem folks want to wish it away or pretend it's not happening. That won't solve anything and we'll continue on the same destructive path with that type of inaction.

Mr. Gore can't have a conflict for the folks giving the Nobel Peace Prize, so he can't do anything before then and I don't think it will be too late after.

I believe Mr. Gore just needs to say "Yes, I hear you and I too am concerned at the direction we are heading. We need to put our country back on track and solve the many problems we face, most notably the Climate Change. I am going to seek the Presidency of the United States". And that will be most of what he needs to get there.


Superman wears Al Gore pajamas.

OK, been meaning to mention that while I wrote up my diary on KOS I was trying to find a reference in Google for this Tell the Truth Media rally we're supposed to hold and which I have "organized" and announced for our Link group.  What I found in Google was this,

with which we are definitely not co-ordinating.  So, I guess what we're supposed to be doing is countering the spin from the conservatives about the "liberal" media by challenging the media.  To this I do not object.  However, it strikes me as strange that the only BFA link for this event is to my monthly report. I know BFA has RSS feeds, but they don't seem to show up reliably in Google.

You all should have a look at the MRC site.  "Tis educational. 

I'm also waiting for AL GORE to get in. I didn't realize the Nobel committee wouldn't award the prize to someone actively running for office, so the October timing makes sense.
I am encouraged that he has not publicly said "no". Remember one comment that he would run IF there was no clear front-runner. Well, there's no clear frontrunner.
GORE/DEAN 08. (Howard never said he wouldn't accept the nod for VP). Just think what that team could do for our country.... imagine the government we deserve!
But, can we help? I live in NY. Can we organize to collect signatures to put Gore on the primary ballot? What does it take to get on ballots in the other states?
Jane

40.  LOL

Hi Monica,

I'm sure there are the intelligent, ethica,l and powerful people available, but where are they? 

I feel that I shouldn't be saying, Please Al run, save us, since frankly, we the people are responsible for the government we have, and to ask for a savior is in a sense weak and cowardly.  Still, please, Al, run.  We need intelligent people, honest people, experienced, competent, and visionary people who will ask us to make choices, to recognize that sacrifice is always part of any achievement, and that we are all citizens on this planet and what happens to my neighbor here or in China happens to me, that the earth and all its denizens from moths, to squirrels, to soil composition are also me.  

How do we turn this government around?  I am extremely disappointed in Nancy Pelosi.  I felt some hope that someone who was experienced, who knew how to strategize, would make a real difference, but I am sorry to say that with respect to Iraq, she has come off as weak.  Furthermore, I have to agree with John Nichols and Bruce Fein, that impeachment is necessary not only for this administration but for all future administrations in order to reassert the checks and balances of this Constitution..

I don't have much hope, Monica, and yet, I know that most of the American people are good people, honest, generous, fair, appreciative of the great opportunities this country and government have afforded us.   

Hey Pat,

You know Mr. Gore is coming out West and headed back to your fair state, right?

HERE TOO. :D

Former Vice President Al Gore
October 1st
The Theatre at Frank Erwin Center
7:30pm"

http://www.texasboxoffice.com/

Al Gore Colorado Convention Center
Denver, CO October 2, 2007
Tuesday 7:30 pm

http://www.ticketmaster.com/event/1E003E...

And


Al Gore
Showtime: Oct 3, 2007 7:30PM
Santa Ana Star Center
Rio Rancho,NM

Buy tickets online here:
http://www.gettix.net/concert/?event_id=...

Dying bees

Sep 6th 2007
From The Economist print edition

WHEN honey bees began to desert their hives recently, never to return, it threw apiarists into a panic. What appeared to be perfectly healthy adult bees would flee their queen, the young and their foodstores. Instead of ransacking the empty hive, other bees would avoid it like the plague. Yet there was nothing obviously wrong. Researchers have now identified the first tangible clue in the mystery—a relatively new virus.

44.

jane d

I agree. Yesterday I was speaking with a woman and she asked who I'd like to see as VP. I said "Howard Dean". "I believe that would make the perfect ticket". She said "OOOHHHH, Howard Dean, I like him. Yes".


Gore/Dean
2008

There is another option open to Harry Reid for passing something -- anything -- regarding a serious timeline for Iraq. The so-called "nuclear option" regarding filibusters is a can-do option but only if all the Democrats vote for it.

The filibuster is a senate rule and it can be changed with a simple majority (51) vote anytime. Using this method, the filibuster rule could be taken off the table, an amendment attached to an Iraq funding bill, which amendment would contain timelines.

Immediately after the bill with the amendment passes and is conferenced with the House (if necessary), the bill would be sent to  Bush. At that time, the filibuster rule should be reinstated.

The Dems wouldn't take much heat fo this manuever since the country is demanding something be done now, if not sooner, and this is really the only reasonable way to do it.

Had to turn off the sanctimonius Joe Biden on MTP today....his steely eyed support for the supplemental before Congress which only he (of the Prez candidates) voted for because it saved lives is BACKWARDS.

 You don't save live by sending more into a civil war and funding all the Bushco. wants.  Fund only a responsible withdrawal/redeployment. Biden is an enabler.

Joan* In*Florida
Sun, 09/09/07
11:50 am

Possible action to take away the filibuster on Iraq. When Bush vetoes the bill with Deadlines, it comes down to a few Senators willing to filibuster the next cave-in, a funding Bill without any accountability. Ultimately, it involves a Constitutional showdown. And it is time for Dems to engage.

Thanks, Linda inSFNM, for the info on Al Gore's visits here. 

Former, I think Bill Clinton was talented, intelligent, and competent, but didn't have much backbone.  His choices were often accommodating and short sighted, barely ethical.  NAFTA, the welfare reform bill, the accommodating of corporate power, etc.  Bush Senior wasn't incompetent either, though he was complicit in Iran/Contra and also accommodating of corporate power.  

I think  Bush 2 , Reagan, and Nixon have truly been criminally incompetent and unethical.  I think they were all sold to the American people through deception.  Where is the critical thinking that we need in order to assess who these candiates are and what they have done?

Frankly, Eisenhower looks wiser and more prescient now than he ever did.  He knew that our military could defeat Russia and China, but he knew that to occupy those countries was impossible.  

There's a book my husband has been reading and sharing with me: Ethical Realism by Anatol Lieven and John Hulsman which pretty much agrees with the ideas and proposals of Progressives.  They analyze what has happened and why.  Good reading for those who read political and historical philosphy.

Finally, I've also read that we've weakened our bees by making them into industrial laborers.  They are trucked all over the country to pollinate immense orchards, affected by pesticides and insufficient nutrition.  They are an example of making the natural world into factory farms and some posit that their immune systems have been badfly compromised.  

One bee keeper said that he has had no problems whatsoever.  His land and hives are all natural with no artificial nutrition or pesticides.  

50.

When Bush vetoes the bill with Deadlines,

Democrats cannot be concerned with whether Bush will veto the bill. they must try everything possible for them. The die will have been cast.

If a veto kills it, it is doubtful there would be 67 votes to override it. It will be a war between the hawks and the Democrats. At least voters will have a better idea who they need to vote for next year.

51.

Indy Steve
Sun, 09/09/07
11:53 am


Had to turn off the sanctimonius Joe Biden on MTP today....his steely eyed support for the supplemental before Congress which only he (of the Prez candidates) voted for because it saved lives is BACKWARDS.

You don't save live by sending more into a civil war and funding all the Bushco. wants. Fund only a responsible withdrawal/redeployment. Biden is an enabler.
--------

I saw it too (till end, did not turned off..., lol).
I guess what you've called BACKWARDS I'm calling contradictions, the essence is the same.

Btw, it is the same kind of contradiction what I've mentioned regarding Edwards call to Americans for sacrificing by switching their cars from SUV to whatever small ones.

ULTIMATELY that switching from CAR-culture/lifestyle to NON-CAR-culture/lifestyle WILL NOT BE SACRIFICE, IT WILL BE LIBERATION for Americans!

42.

Mr. Gore can't have a conflict for the folks giving the Nobel Peace Prize, so he can't do anything before then

Linda,

I hadn't heard that info before. Where does this come from????

This kinda puts a whole new light on the big "I'm not planning to run" thing, a very exciting prospect.

54.

Joan* In*Florida
Sun, 09/09/07
12:09 pm

===============

Don't waste your time trying to explain things to these paranoid liars. They have a mindset that ignores facts and explanations, and they take pride in their ignorance.

Why we are not getting out of Iraq, at least in part.  Too many of these guys.

Blue Dogs say they represent the majority, but they don't want to "play general" with the war.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1175

""Iraq is a good example," Boyd said. "The majority of the caucus would say, 'Let's be really strong in forcing the president out of here.' Well, some of us are really uncomfortable playing general, and you're going to see that reflected in what we vote on."

Had to turn off Joe Biden, too.  He's arguing we need to spend all these billions on the fantastic uparmored vehicles to save our kids' lives.  But if we weren't there, we wouldn't be in the untenable position of having to spend all those dollars to save our kids' lives.

Joan* In*Florida
Sun, 09/09/07
12:09 pm

It's more complicated and deceptive than that...you'll see many Democrats vote for a Bill they know will be vetoed, then turn around and vote for full funding without accountability.

My point is it will take a few Senators willing to run a filibuster on the $200 billion in additional funding to force a Constitutional showdown. Congress has the power of funding, pure and simple. It is time to use it. Again and again. Force Bush and his enablers. The majority of the American people want out of Iraq. It is up to the politicians to find the means.

Huron John
Sun, 09/09/07
10:49 am

I hope that congressional Democrats recognize betrayus for what  he is--a Republican Politician with a chest full of medals; and I hope they have the balls to call him on it.

Can politicians who seemingly don't realize that they themselves are virtual Republicans be expected to recognize it in another -- and if they do, care about it? 

58.

Fred, Some remind me very much of Bushies.

November will be far too late for Al Gore to enter the race, and have any ability to win. It takes time to build a political infrastructure, and money. With all the primaries moving up, there isn't enough time. I said before he needs to get in before or shortly after Labor Day. Now is his last chance.

The window is closing on the need to enter. We should not wait for a "savior" but pick one who we feel has the best plans going forward and work for them.

I also would like a Gore/Dean ticket but......the media will again tear Dean apart I think.  Gore, no, but Dean, yes, I think so...much as it pains me to say this.

******************************

Monica wrote: "What seems apparent is that people who have no need to lie have a really hard time recognizing this behavior in others. "

It's very easy for people healed by 12 step programs to recognize liars since we were all masters at lying.  The more honest I am, the more easily I can spot liars.. The key to knowing others lies in knowing oneself.  I suspect the reason people don't recognize liars is becuz they themselves are liars.   I remember reading a stat which stated that a vast majority of Americans think it's OK to lie.

"The snake in the garden lied to Eve and, for some reason, Eve has been blamed for being deceived ever since.  It could as well have been Adam, or are females more likely targets of deception?"

IMO, it has nothing to do with deception but rather male chauvanists who *wrote* the bible, blaming women for everything. We didn't even have *souls* in those days. If anyone wants to look at the root of our problems, including those of Jews and Muslims, read the OT.

********************************** 

Pat wrote: "I don't have much hope, Monica, and yet, I know that most of the American people are good people, honest, generous, fair,

If they 're so fair, honest and good, how come Bushco is still running the country into the ground?  Åmericans, in general, are mentally lazy and politically gullible IMO.  I know very nice and smart people, good people, who follow politics and DO NOTHING!  Å young man at the bank didn't even know Iran is next.   We have been trained not to pay attention.

In the articles I posted last night, one of the quotes is that the world is run by less than 50 men.  I guess Hillary wants to be one of those men, but I doubt even our critters have any real power.  And certainly not putzie.  Cheney, I think so.  Olmert, the Saudi kings, bankers also.

We need to take our heads outta the sand and start giving Daniel a little more credit for his posts.  IMO.

It must be Sunday since I'm preachy, altho I do preach often, don't I?  I must think I have something to say.  LOL

Gore/Moyers? 

Joan* In*Florida
Sun, 09/09/07
12:27 pm

Siding with Fred is puzzling.....he is the most disruptive person on the blog. Calling people vile names, swearing, petulant little tantrums. You sure you want to associate with that?

FRED from OR
Sun, 09/09/07
12:16 pm

More name-calling again....just because some don't agree with you. Pot. Kettle. Black.

If a veto kills it, it is doubtful there would be 67 votes to override it.

If Bush would rather not fund his occupation rather than allow it to end Democrats should take him up on it.

Indy Steve
Sun, 09/09/07
12:27 pm
___________________________________________________________________________

Its not Freds fault................i blame Joe Biden

I don't think November is too late for Gore and I'm certainly not throwing any time or energy or money to anyone else at this point ...and may not even if Gore doesn't enter.  Well, maybe Dodd, maybe.

I wish these people would announce a short list of their possible VPs.  It would be helpful, doncha think?

At the very least, Gore could be "Sec'y of the Environment."  Would Clinton call on him?  LOLOLOLOLOL.  NO.

Just think of how the world would immediately appreciate us again, having chosen, finally, wisely.  I won't give up hope on him.  

Sea, way to early to know, but I wouldn't dismiss the possibility of Gore being offered a place in a Clinton cabinet.

http://www.blogforamerica.com/view/22143...

63.

Joan* In*Florida
Sun, 09/09/07
12:27 pm

Fred, Some remind me very much of Bushies

===============

They use the same brainwash techniques, like repeating something over and over again (like the Iraq-Al Qaeda connnection) until it becomes carved in stone.

And they selectively ignore facts, while select quotes out of context with misanthropic references to those they target.

History will judge harshly the current president and Congress, who from Sept. 11, 2001 until Sept. 11, 2007 have shared for their own reasons complicity in one of the greatest disasters in American military history, and have shared for their own reasons complicity in the international and domestic crimes of torture that violate cardinal rules of Americanism and international law that have been commonly accepted from the days of George Washington until the origin and execution of the Iraq war.

On one issue after another — there is no need to fully recapitulate them all here — things have been done in the name of God, country and the American troops that have in truth been opposed by a strong majority of American military leaders, and are so far out of the traditions of American values and American history that they have never, not once, been pursued by any American president or so submissively accepted by any American Congress on such a morally and militarily grotesque scale.

For Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton (D-N.Y.), the current crisis offers a golden moment for her to act as a true commander in chief would act, to lead as a great president would lead, and to make her voice and her actions those of the true leader of the Loyal Opposition and — this is the central point — the authentic voice of the majority of American military leaders, American troops in combat, American military families and American veterans.

She should speak loudly, forcefully, and clearly the central truth of the debate, which is this: The overwhelming majority of American military leaders favor dramatic changes in the current Iraq policy and they, not Gen. Petraeus, are the true voice for what is best for our security, our country and our troops.

http://pundits.thehill.com/2007/09/07/how-hillary-clinton-can-end-the-iraq-war-speak-for-the-american-military-and-kill-osama-bin-laden/

PROVIDE SOME LEADERSHIP, HILLARY, OR SOMEBODY

Sea, way to early to know, but I wouldn't dismiss the possibility of Gore being offered a place in a Clinton cabinet.

I find it hard to imagine he'd want to work for the Clintons and the NeoDem corporate agenda again when he could go on working for humanity and the world. 

When I think of how much power the dems have but won't use, I get so upset.  At the very least, they could keep sending the same bill back.  Let him veto over and  over till the CMWs start reporting it everywhere and the public finally gets it.

Levin and Lieberputz ...  our two Israeli senators.  How many more are there that are closet AIPAC neo-cons?  Many, I suspect.  W/o AIPAC support, they don't get money for campaigns. At least, that's what they're told.

Unless and/or until our CMWs start reporting on AIPAC and our endless wars in the ME policy, I don't think we have a prayer of extricating ourselves.  Israel's policy is an albatross around the necks of Americans who pay taxes so their kids can die in wars that protect oil, Israel and likely, the opium trade.

I think, however, that it goes much deeper than that.  The Bilderberg Group comes to mind.

The original intention of the Bilderberg Group was to further the understanding between Western Europe and North America through informal meetings between powerful individuals. Each year, a "steering committee" devises a selected invitation list with a maximum of 100 names. Invitations are extended only to residents of Europe and North America. The location of their annual meeting is not secret, but the public and press are strictly kept at distance by police force and private security guards. Although the agenda and list of participants are openly available to the public, it is not clear that such details are disclosed by the group itself. Also, the contents of the meetings are kept secret and attendees pledge not to divulge what was discussed. The group's stated justification for secrecy is that it enables people to speak freely without the need to carefully consider how every word might be interpreted by the mass media.

This is what we're up against!

Attendees of Bilderberg include central bankers, defense experts, mass media press barons, government ministers, prime ministers, royalty, international financiers and political leaders from Europe and North America.

Some of the Western world's leading financiers and foreign policy strategists attend Bilderberg. Donald Rumsfeld is an active Bilderberger, as is Peter Sutherland from Ireland, a former European Union commissioner and chairman of Goldman Sachs and of British Petroleum. Rumsfeld and Sutherland served together in 2000 on the board of the Swedish/Swiss engineering company ABB. Former U.S. Deputy Defense Secretary and former World Bank head Paul Wolfowitz is also a member, as is Roger Boothe, Jr. The group's current chairman is Etienne Davignon, the Belgian businessman and politician.[4]

I don't think November is too late for Gore

As late as possible the better. Last night someone mentioned Dec. 4 as a deadline. That would do.

Craig Family Values: Arrests, Warrants and Restraining Orders. Checkered Pasts of Senator's Step-Children (He Has No Biological Children) Call Their Credibility into Question. 9/8

  At the very least, they could keep sending the same bill back.  Let him veto over and  over

Why send the same bill back? Make each one more stringent than the last. 

Things you might not want to know about re:  Bilderberg

• Trilateral Commission
• Council on Foreign Relations

1. ^ The masters of the universe, Asia Times, May 22 2003, accessed on August 18 2007
2. ^ a b What was discussed at Bilderberg?, Turkish Daily News, June 5 2007, accessed on August 18 2007
3. ^ Rockefeller, David (2002). Memoirs. Random House, p.412. ISBN 0-679-40588-7. 
4. ^ Bill Hayton (29th September, 2005). Inside the secretive Bilderberg Group. BBC.
5. ^ High-security fences surround resort town in preparation for summit, Edmonton Journal, August 18 2007, accessed on August 19 2007
6. ^ Asia Times Online :: Asian News, Business and Economy.. Retrieved on 2007-08-22.
7. ^ Panetta, Alexander (2006). Secretive Bilderbergers meet. www.thestar.com. Toronto Star Newspapers Limited. Retrieved on 2006-06-12.
8. ^ Bilderberg 2007 - Towards a One World Empire?, Nexus Magazine, Volume 14, Number 5 (August - September 2007), accessed on August 18 2007

• Hatch, Alden (1962). "The Hôtel de Bilderberg", H.R.H.Prince Bernhard of the Netherlands: An authorized biography. London: Harrap. ISBN B0000CLLN4. 
• Ronson, Jon (2001). THEM: Adventures with Extremists. London: Picador. ISBN 0-330-37546-6. 
• Eringer, Robert (1980). The Global Manipulators. Bristol, England: Pentacle Books. ISBN 0906850046. 

Note: the Bilderberg Group does not have a website. (From Bilderberg: The ultimate conspiracy theory (BBC News story).)

• Paper by Sociology Professor (LMU) Mike Peters: "The Bilderberg Group and the Project for European Unification" from Lobster: The Journal of Parapolitics
• Free Press International: Bilderberg video and info
• Extract from the official Bilderberg report on the Fiuggi Conference 4-6 October 1957
• Guardian article on the group - an excerpt from Jon Ronson's book Them
• BBC Interview with Étienne Davignon, September 2005
• Elite power brokers meet in secret BBC News 15 May 2003
• BBC online article on Group
• CTV.ca - Shadowy group meets amid secrecy in Ottawa
• Minutes from the 1999 Bilderberg meeting from SchNEWS website
• List of recent mainstream news articles and Bilderberg conspiracy gossip
• Historical information on the Bilderberg Group-mentions original location of 1976 meeting
• Robert Eringer writing about Bilderberg, Carroll Quigley
• The world's most powerful secret society - 1998 article from Punch magazine
• Bilderberg Group: Last meeting June 2007 at Ritz-Carlton hotel in Şişli, Istanbul, Turkey

Categories: Conspiracy theories |

73.  As a cabinet head (EPR, for instance) Gore have an opportunity to continue working for humanity.  We're both speculating, of course, Sitka...but I'd doubt "NeoDems" is a part of his lexicon.  I've always seen Al Gore as a deep thinker, capable of taking on complicated issues and particularly gifted at explaining those issues.

As long as he says he's not running for President then I think it's a safe bet he isn't runing for president. 

68.

Michael Ellis
Sun, 09/09/07
12:35 pm
=================

Thanks, Mike, but I don't need your defense against these abstract attacks. No one discusses what Biden says and to what specifically they disagree. They just bash, bash, bash.

That kind of thinking is on the fringe, like the Neocons.
I guess there are no trolls attacking the blog, so they have to be paranoid against anyone outside their ideological groupthink. We are all suspects, and they make us the "trolls"

73.

sitka,

Some months ago Gore was asked about accepting the EPA secretary position no matter which Dem won the WH.

Gore definitely ruled that out by giving a huge NO with a stern look to boot.

Its not Freds fault................i blame Joe Biden

Thanks, Mike, but I don't need your defense against these abstract attacks.

and a "stern look" even, lol.  Well, there ya go.

Some months ago Gore was asked about accepting the EPA secretary position no matter which Dem won the WH. Gore definitely ruled that out by giving a huge NO with a stern look to boot.

He'd be too busy pulling knives out of his back to get anything done. 

65.

Steve

I certainly wasn't referring to you as a Bushie, you must know that.

But some on this blog, IMHO, are exactly as Fred described and many of them attack Fred first before he fights back. I admire that quality in any  Dem:)) There are many trouble makers here and I usually give them their space, though I have to wonder why ther are here.

Peace!

Joan, I remember Gore saying "No" when asked if he'd accept ANY cabinet position.....One last thing about Bilderberg.

ts. The Bilderberg does not invite - or accept - Asians, Middle Easterners, Latin Americans or Africans. 

but I'd doubt "NeoDems" is a part of his lexicon. 

That doesn't mean he doesn't know who are the enemies of what he's working for. 

I've always seen Al Gore as a deep thinker, capable of taking on complicated issues and particularly gifted at explaining those issues.

Haven't we all. 

As long as he says he's not running for President then I think it's a safe bet he isn't runing for president.

Nobody is running for president unless they are. 

"Nobody is running for president unless they are. "

Deep....not;) 

There are many trouble makers here

I view those who criticize the people on this blog as a group for not doing, thinking, or saying what they want them to as troublemakers. 

"Nobody is running for president unless they are. "

Deep....not;)

As long as he says he's not running for President then I think it's a safe bet he isn't runing for president.

Ditto. ;) 

The Dodd campaign is really picking up steam:

87.

Joan* In*Florida
Sun, 09/09/07
1:11 pm

===============

I think very few here know who they really are any more, or what their identity is (or are afraid to mention it.) It is very much like what happened in the story "Lord of the Flies" where Jack takes over and everyone starts listening to Jack and start chanting in unison whatever Jack chants, out of fear of being ostracized and killed.

The adults show up and they became melancholy.

Women are no different. Moderators are not always the answer, if the moderator has the same mentality - that's even worse. We had a good moderator here once. We have no moderation now.

Then again no moderation is better than bad moderation.

Sitka, lol.

91.  Now there, I agree with you. 

76.

seashell :-)
Sun, 09/09/07
12:55 pm
--------
80.

seashell :-)
Sun, 09/09/07
1:00 pm
-------

Wow, seems like there some other "forces"...besides AIPAC that trying to make history..., lol?

Fresh look...and good work Sea!

87, I guess I'm one of the " troublemakers"  because I treat DINO's and cowardly Democrats with the scorn and derision they deserve.

I think sometimes the blog gets into groupthink too -- I put on my armor sometimes before expressing myself honestly, altho I'm admittedly overly sensitive.

I just took the dog for our Sunday ride. I don't go to church, but I live in a community with mostly churches and the big signs they have out front are poetical - I wish I had kept a log of them. Anyway today's gems:

Life is short - pray hard.

and

Need a lifeguard? Ours walks on water.

Huron, I don't agree with you politically on a number of things but I don't believe I've ever seen you personally attack a blogger.  Pretty much, you reserve your venom for the entire Democratic Party, lol;)

Gore Endorsement -- Potent but Not Foolproof

By Chris Cillizza And Shailagh Murray
Sunday, September 9, 2007; Page A02

Former vice president Al Gore's pronouncement that he is likely to endorse one of the Democratic candidates for president before the primary season is over has set off a slew of speculation about who his choice might be.

Truth is, the courting of the "Goreacle" began many months ago. Sen. Barack Obama (Ill.) and Gore huddled in Nashville in December, and Gore has also met with former senator John Edwards (N.C.). Gore and Sen. Christopher J. Dodd (Conn.) conferred as recently as last week.

Not surprisingly, Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton (N.Y.) has not met with Gore. Neither has Sen. Joseph R. Biden Jr. (Del.) nor New Mexico Gov. Bill Richardson.

The falling out between Gore and the Clintons has become the stuff of political legend. Then-Vice President Gore's decision to distance himself from Bill Clinton in the 2000 presidential campaign did not sit well with the Clintons, who resented that Gore was willing to accept credit for the administration's achievements while at the same time criticizing the president's personal conduct.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/con...

troublemakers make gross generalizations based on opinions with based on opinions, calls them "facts," and then label any one who disagrees with them as traitors, humiliating them as members of "the opposition"

lot of that going on here.

Hi mprov.  We're all (I think) aware of the "legendary" strife but Hillary's political astuteness is one of her strengths (some would argue her weakness).  Offering Al Gore a cabinet position would be politically SMART....even if he refused it.

So who do you think Al will endorse? 

Annilow, groupthink is a potential downside of "any" organized group.  DFA, otoh, is one of the most diverse groups I've ever come across.  That's one of the thing I've always admired about the blog here.

Courage:  You showed stones when you commented on the recent Grapski debacle.  I happen to agree 100% on that one, btw.  

I always try to balance speaking up for what I believe in with "getting along" with the group.  A high-wire act at times.

One thing I've learned from being away for so long and from watching the Sitka/Fred stuff.....What folks must have thought when putting up with my all too frequent smackdowns with Troleo.....I cringe thinking about it, actually.  I should have ignored him. 

91.

I view those who criticize the people on this blog as a group for not doing, thinking, or saying what they want them to as troublemakers.

Sitka, You just described yourself to a "T" as being a troublemakers.

However, it makes a point, that most people seldom see themselves the same way others do.

interesting enough on latino voting, but check out the repug friend of rove who's endorsing richardson...

Sept. 9, 2007, 11:58AM
GOP losing support with Hispanic voters
Party is paying a price for rhetoric on immigration, some say

By RICHARD S. DUNHAM
Copyright 2007 Houston Chronicle

WASHINGTON — Lionel Sosa has been a proud Republican for years. He produced campaign commercials for the late Sen. John Tower, worked as a media consultant for Ronald Reagan and raised money for George W. Bush.

But the harsh immigration rhetoric of some Republicans has driven the Floresville executive to question the direction of his party.

(further down)

...The immigration debate is one reason why Sosa, 68, is supporting Democrat Bill Richardson, a Latino and New Mexico's governor, for president...(and)...Republican strategists, led by Sosa's longtime friend Karl Rove, have warned that their party faces a precarious political future if harsh denunciations of illegal immigrants by some conservative firebrands alienate members of the fastest-growing voting bloc in Texas — and the rest of the country...

98.

Huron John
Sun, 09/09/07
1:31 pm

================

I would not label you as such, but you do cut-and-paste lots of anti-Democratic party stuff, that fans a lot troublesome flames. There is a fine line between reforming and simply being against the party. The more abstract in facts and tone the text, the more anti-party it is.

Real reform focuses less on abstractions (casually labeled as "truth") and more on the many details of arguments and discussion,

and not repeating the same selective details as part of an attack, over and over until they lose their meaning in context.

104.

Joan* In*Florida
Sun, 09/09/07
1:51 pm

=============
touch - I was thinking the same thing - but the truth is also lost in the ambiguity of the statement.

touch = touche

cc, how ya doin'?

i think the article i posted pretty much said it: obama, edwards, and dodd have asked for gore's support, while hill, biden, and richardson have not. pretty clear left-right division of the "left" if you ask me.

gore's endorsement??? i'll go out on a limb and say mike gravel...could be wrong though!!!

the repug debate is being replayed on fox.

104. "as a group" is the ambiguous part. Which group? Groups can only be identified as labels and who does most of the labeling here?

Dear Senator Biden:  Although I live in California and am not one of your constituents, I must tell you how disappointed I am with your stance on the Iraq War as you stated it on "Meet the Press" this morning.  It is past time to be concerned about up-armoring our troops which only creates a cynical justification to keep them there.  They still remain at tremendous and unnecessary risk simply by being there.

Democrats and Republicans alike by vast majorities want this illegal and insane war to end as soon as possible.  Aside from the unacceptable horrendous loss of life among American troops and Iraqis, you yourself mentioned these vehicles cost "billions."

We ordinary citizens spoke loudly and clearly last November - U.S. troops out of Iraq now.   Please join us in supporting everything you can to do just that.

Thank you.

Suzanne Harris - Los Angeles, CA

"gore's endorsement??? i'll go out on a limb and say mike gravel...could be wrong though!!!"

Gravel!  Interesting.  I would have thought Edwards.  The  Gore endorsement is a huge boon, at any rate. 

cc, i was joking. guess it doesn't come across in print very well?

actually, my guess would be who ever he thought could beat hill.

just dropping in.  A thought about conspiracy theories: While I don't doubt that there are conspiracies, and I respect the people who bring forth information about them, one of the consequences is fear and anger, the same mental and emotional atmosphere that the Bush Administration has perpetrated.  We become victims and helpless. 

I guess the more we dwell on what's wrong, and there is plenty wrong, the more we make that the reality.  Have the democrats sold themselves to power and coporations, yes, they have.  Have the republicans, yes, even more so.  But, that doesn't make me helpless.

Something I've noticed that concerns me.  The 30-40 year old generation seems to have cocooned itself with media, films, big houses, materialism, and apathy towards politics.  Many of them are well educated and skilled, technocrats, but not at all involved in community or local politics, not to mention national politics.  

There are serious problems to be dealt with, and I wonder how they will meet them if at all.

However, the generations following them, Y and Millenium seem much more involved.  It was in the late 80s early 90s that I recall that lack of community participation was noted, and schools and universities began to talk about community service.  Many schools put in a requirement for community service and resumes with applications to prestigeous colleges and universities had to include community involvement.  I think it has made a difference.  In the election of 2006, double the number of Millenium kids voted.  That's a hopeful sign, I think. 

 I've wondered in culture isn't even more important than family in terms of influencing attitudes.  The 30-40 year old were teens in the Reagan era when we admitted we were a consumer nation and everyone should go shopping.

typo, should read, I've wondered if cultures....

103.

*** cChalfonte***
Sun, 09/09/07
1:49 pm

Reply to this

Annilow, groupthink is a potential downside of "any" organized group. DFA, otoh, is one of the most diverse groups I've ever come across.

==================

That was true before, but there is less and less respect for diversity to the point where people are verbally tarred-and-feathered for thinking outside of the proverbial "box" that resulted from this disrespect for diverity.

Unfortunately this exodus accelerated, because many open-minded people left this blog when their ideas were miscontrued and trounced in groupthink pile-ons one too many times. Lurkers were turned off.

mprov....I thought you were maybe joking but wasn't certain:)

Al Gore firmly and decisively discouraged any efforts to encourage his candidacy in the 2004 election.  According to what I heard yesterday at a lively meeting of 50 volunteers to draft Gore this time around, his office has not responded to notices sent there.  We have not been told, "Forget it, go away." 

October 8 is the day we begin collecting 500 signatures on petitions in each of the 50 some-odd districts in California.  Similar efforts are happening in other states, too (Missouri, North Carolina, New Mexico, New Jersey are the ones I recall.).

112.

Suzanne Harris
Sun, 09/09/07
2:09 pm

==================

He did say that American forces should leave ASAP, and we should have a political solution, but if a political solution proves to be impossible, we should leave anyway ASAP.

He also said that cutting funds won't mandate an end to the occupation - only 2/3 vote in Congress will do that. He said funds were cut off for Viet Nam after we left. Without a disengagment order (which Bush vetoed,) all cutting-off-funds does is punish the troops.

Can anyone repudiate that in specific technical-legal terms? not in terms of political rhetoric?

"The 30-40 year old generation seems to have cocooned itself with media, films, big houses, materialism, and apathy towards politics.  Many of them are well educated and skilled, technocrats, but not at all involved in community or local politics, not to mention national politics. "

Pat, hi.  I've noticed this too but had no thoughts/experience with Gen Y and Millenium.  Good to hear that they are more in touch.

--------------------------------------------------- 

When in modern US history has a president been "drafted"?  We're not going to "Draft" Al Gore into running for President.  Love Al, would support him 100%.  He isn't running.

eisenhower was drafted.

mprov, Eisenhower was courted by both parties in 48.....a beloved hero by ALL or an overwhelming majority of people.  We are a different country today.  I don't believe we'll draft a nominee.

So who do you think Al will endorse?

cC, I think Al will run and not endorse anyone.  I also think it possible that he met with Dodd, Edwards and Obama, feeling out a possible VP.  (possibly w/o telling them) I want so much to be right.  Edwards would be smart, if offered, to take it. 

He's going to do something big; I can feel it.  He has the power and intends to use  it and I don't think he'll let Clinton have the nomination.

The question is:  will Bilderberg, AIPÅÇ and the others try to stop them and could they? 

97.

Annilow

*** cChalfonte***

>

Speak your mind.  

Don't worry, be happy. 

Good sharing by both.

TTFN 

well, here's how i see it. gore has not yet said definitively that he is not running. when/if he says that, then picking from the crowd is in order. meanwhile, the draft movement would begin the process that he'd have to do anyway, i.e., collect the signatures required to get on the ballot. granted, if he says no, time, effort, resources could be wasted.

Sitka, You just described yourself to a "T" as being a troublemakers

Actually, Joan, I was referring to you, for one, who often comes here to make disparaging remarks of the many who don't "groupthink" the Democratic Party line.

Fortunately there are only a couple anymore who do it.  

But there are sometimes others who criticize us all for liking Dean too much, or for not liking him enough, or for not paying enough attention to their pet concerns. 

It's just wrong to criticize the blog en masse when it's comprised of individuals who most often have many differing opinions on any subject. And you've not found me doing that. 

if he says no, time, effort, resources could be wasted.

Trying to bring about what's best is never a waste. 

  Pretty much, you reserve your venom for the entire Democratic Party, lol;)  

For most of it, to be sure--but not the "Democratic Wing" (Feingold, Kucinich,Dodd, Richardson and many others) who want us out of Iraq without any ego-tripping delays, who want to leave Iran be, and who pursue single-payer health care for all--medicare for everyone.

HuJo....I know.  You are done with the spinelessness and the adjustments to shifting political winds.  Your position is understandable. 

mprov...fair enough.  Gore has until early December...we'll see.

oh, and thank you, Paine.

112. well said suzanne

120.He also said that cutting funds won't mandate an end to the occupation

He's wrong. And it doesn't "punish the troops". There's plenty of money in DOD to bring them home safely.

Biden's one of the worst offenders for using "the troops" as a backdrop for his pontification.

127.

Sitka
Sun, 09/09/07
2:45 pm

...who often comes here to make disparaging remarks of the many who don't "groupthink" the Democratic Party line.

Fortunately there are only a couple anymore who do it.

================

that's a contradictory statement.

There is no "groupthink" Democratic party line. The groupthink comes from people like you, who thinks of any free expression as coming from those who "often comes here" [from the "outside"???] as if they don't belong in the group here.

You are done with the spinelessness and the adjustments to shifting political winds.  Your position is understandable.

As with many. Democratic leaders in DC have squandered the goodwill and backing of those who put them in power. To my embarrassment, I even named Pelosi as first on one of our threads early this year. But now I know she's just Dick Gephardt in drag who's leading Democrats back into the abyss.

Sitka, Gephardt in drag....LOL.

My S.O. feels the same way that you and HuJo do.....believe me, it's a position I hear daily:)

I'm holding out hope that once back in the WH they'll govern like Democrats.  

But when they have an opportunity to "pay-go" this war as Phil suggests......I'm confounded when they squander that opportunity.  I'm not 100% ready to say that it is all political maneuvering.  As strongly as most of us feel that we should leave Iraq, others believe we need to stay. 

There is no "groupthink" Democratic party line

Only those who would have it so, and attack others en masse for not being part of their version of it.

FRED and Joan's Democratic Party is a Borg collective like the GOP. 

132.

Huron John
Sun, 09/09/07
2:54 pm

He's wrong. And it doesn't "punish the troops". There's plenty of money in DOD to bring them home safely

=============
What Biden meant was that it will mean cutbacks in safety gear, like the bomb-resistant vehicle rider he put in the final funding legislation.

Even if they started coming home today, how many lives, (and permenant injuries) would those vehicles save in the meantime?

Bush doesn't really care about that. He'll keep the war going out of the general DOD military fund and skimp on the health and safety equipment for the soldiers themselves, among cuts in other things, like he's been doing from the beginning in 2003.

I'm holding out hope that once back in the WH they'll govern like Democrats.

Of the current "viable" candidates, the best that can be hoped is that they'll govern like Rockefeller Republicans. 

But when they have an opportunity to "pay-go" this war as Phil suggests......I'm confounded when they squander that opportunity.  I'm not 100% ready to say that it is all political maneuvering.  As strongly as most of us feel that we should leave Iraq, others believe we need to stay.

The Dem leaders are of the latter. They've tried to make it appear as if theiy are aginst Bush, but are just using that as a cover for collaboration.

132.

Huron John

Biden's one of the worst offenders for using "the troops" as a backdrop for his pontification

====================
Your opinion is your opinion, and is not a fact, because it is not based on facts, it is based on other opinions.

The facts are Biden bashes Bush and this war at every chance he gets, and has not been a proponent of continuing this occupation.

Rockefeller Repub.....I don't think that's true of Edwards, especially.

...and I've always believed that Hillary will govern left of where she campaigned....the opposite of her husband.

These are all theoretical, admittedly. 

136.

Sitka
Sun, 09/09/07
3:06 pm

FRED and Joan's Democratic Party is a Borg collective like the GOP.

=================
We never expressed that view, but apparently you slander us that way, to portray us that way, because you don't think we belong in "your" group, this blog.

140.

*** cChalfonte***
Sun, 09/09/07
3:11 pm
===================

My opinion is that Hillary really is not all that "experienced" except for the limelight part. It is obvious she and her husband did not share a lot of time together, so where does the nut-and-bolts "experience" come from???

103. Thx cC
===========
I get the Newsweek newsletter in email on Sunday. There's an interesting article about Obama getting former Clinton people.
By Michael Hirsh
Newsweek
Sept. 17, 2007 issue - They were devotees of the cult of Clinton. Greg Craig was Bill Clinton's lawyer, defending him on TV against impeachment charges. Susan Rice was a protégée of Madeleine Albright, the 42nd president's secretary of State. Anthony Lake was Clinton's personal foreign-policy consigliere, his first-term national-security adviser. Now, however, Craig, Rice and Lake are all top advisers to Hillary Clinton's main rival, Barack Obama. In an increasingly bitter fight for the best and brightest policy advisers of Clinton's presidency, these defectors are aggressively recruiting junior- and midlevel officials from his administration.
snip to.......
Younger former Clintonites are gravitating to Obama for many reasons. They like him because he doesn't seem to represent the old Washington, D.C., game—and because they admire his strong opposition to the Iraq War, in contrast to Hillary's early support. They are also wary of what one describes as Hillary's "closed circle," including her husband and a triumvirate of senior officials from his presidency—Holbrooke, Albright and former national-security adviser Sandy Berger. "There is a sense, consciously or subconsciously, that we don't want to just go back to the same team: Holbrooke, Sandy, Madeleine ... the same people having the same arguments about who's going to be in the room," says the midlevel Obama adviser. The Obama campaign has played on those fears, telling recruits they can rise faster with the Illinois senator. "The Obama pitch is, 'You'll never be in the inner circle' with Hillary," says Gene Sperling, Senator Clinton's top economic adviser.
cont'd.....
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20657194/sit...

Rockefeller Repub.....I don't think that's true of Edwards, especially.

It depends on whether one believes his rhetoric or his record. 

TAKE ACTION NOW - SIGN THE PETITION

The incidence of asthma has risen dramatically in the past 20 years. But, in spite of the alarming statistics, the Environmental Protection Agency ignored the unanimous recommendation of its own scientists as well as many doctors across the U.S. for stronger clean air standards!

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/takeactio...

Annilow, from your article:

Many former senior officials in Clinton's administration say they are still advising anyone—Hillary, Obama or both—who calls them. But some have agreed to become part of Obama's team of advisory groups on different regions and issues. Among them: Richard Clarke, the counterterrorism czar from the Clinton and Bush administrations; Jeffrey Bader, the Mandarin-speaking former director for Asian affairs on Clinton's National Security Council and an assistant U.S. trade representative; former Mideast envoys Rob Malley and Dennis Ross, and the recently retired career CIA official and former Clinton-era NSC expert on South Asia, Bruce Riedel. Obama has also recruited a good number of former junior- and midlevel Clinton officials, especially many who served on Clinton's National Security Council.

The country would benefit from this brain trust...no matter who wins the presidency, imo. 

The Borg are a race of cyborgs in the fictional Star Trek universe, first introduced in the Star Trek: The Next Generation TV series. They are characterized by relentless pursuit of targets for assimilation, their collective consciousness that enables rapid adaptability to almost any defence, and the ability to continue functioning properly despite seemingly devastating blows. They have become a powerful symbol in popular culture for any juggernaut against whom "resistance is futile."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borg_(Star_Trek)

The country would benefit from this brain trust...no matter who wins the presidency, imo.

Seeming to be a little better than the other side is the tactic both sides use to betray their most honest supporters. 

We never expressed that view,

Who would be crazy enough to say they believe in the Democratic Party being a borg collective? But a couple of people who post here do regularly criticize the rest for not sufficiently toeing the party line -- which seems bizarre since so many who post here are registered Independents and shouldn't be expected to, even in the Orwellian world of partyspeak.

124.

Sea, I think the Dems and Washington, in general, are becoming aware of the undue influence of AIPAC.  So much wrong has been done by this administration .... and I believe that the Dem field knows this.  Any of our candidates will strive to correct those wrongs, imo.

I believe that the Dem field knows this.  Any of our candidates will strive to correct those wrongs, imo.

If they strove to correct them now it would be easier to believe they will later. 

One of the biggest wrongs, chronicled in this book.....then I must bid adieu...life/duties are calling.

“Takeover: The Return of the Imperial Presidency and the Subversion of American Democracy,” to this audience. “Takeover” goes beyond my reporting last year on the Bush-Cheney administration’s signing statements. It is a comprehensive investigation into the administration’s efforts to expand presidential power. Early readers have also called it a legal history of the administration and an intellectual biography of the vice president, and I would like to think that both descriptions are apt.

The first quarter of the book is a history of executive power, especially from Watergate to the Clinton administration, interwoven with the story of Dick Cheney’s rise and the unfolding of his three-decade agenda of restoring White House authority to what it had been before Nixon’s fall. The remainder of the book is an accounting of how Cheney’s long-term goal organized the administration’s policies and actions from its first day in office, before 9/11, and how the war on terrorism helped throw that pre-existing inclination into overdrive.

"Takeover" is a structured as a narrative, with scenes and characters, and it tells the stories of key figures such as David Addington, John Yoo, Alberto Gonzales, Jack Goldsmith, Jim Haynes, John Roberts, Samuel Alito, and others. I interviewed many former members of the administration legal team, both on the record and on background, and also drew on many memos about executive power written by these lawyers both during the current era and in the past. Some of these memos will be familiar to readers of this blog, but I also uncovered many interesting documents that have never before received public discussion.

The book also provides constitutional analysis written for a non-specialist audience. For example, it discusses at length the invention and evolution of the Unitary Executive Theory, explaining the administration legal team’s use of an enhanced version of the theory to convert “inherent” presidential powers into "exclusive" ones that Congress cannot regulate. It also explores the politics of presidential power, rising secrecy, signing statements, the torture ban fight, and White House efforts to impose greater political control over the military Judge Advocates General, Justice Department lawyers, and other career executive branch officials. Throughout the book, I argue that executive power is not a partisan issue – future Democratic presidents will also be able to draw on these same powers to impose their own agendas unilaterally. --Takeover-new book by Charlie Savage of the Boston Globe

Have a great day, folks.  Loved being here today:) 

oh, and that excerpt is from Jack Balkin's blog:

http://balkin.blogspot.com/

See you all later ♥ 

150.

Sitka
Sun, 09/09/07
3:48 pm

...But a couple of people who post here do regularly criticize the rest for not sufficiently toeing the party line...

==============
That's a gross generalization, that exists more in your mind than in reality. "toeing the party line" "Neodems" "Bush-lite" etc.

These are examples of the way you humiliate and slander those who disagree with your dogma. Your calling others "Borg" is antithetically incongruent - in other words, hypo-critical.

Hi everyone,

My PC has had some problems, and i've been very busy with 'footwork' for upcoming races - especially for attorney John Wolfe (D, Chattanooga TN) running for TN State Senate. This election came up 'suddenly' upon the resignation of one Ward Crutchfield, having pled guilty in the 'Tennessee Waltz' bribery sting operation.
John Wolfe is progressive and always has been. The primary is coming up in Oct, the general in Nov THIS year. So it's hustle, hustle, hustle.
My plan to go to Atlanta was hinged on enticing a gentleman to run again for the US Congress again, to go meet Jim Dean - for a bit of inspiration. That fell through, he was underwhelmed by the 0(that's zero) support from DFA last time.

Sadly, i decided to stay here and put my energy to as much use as possible. There is good news there, but i know noone cares, so...

“Takeover: The Return of the Imperial Presidency and the Subversion of American Democracy,”

The subtitle should be -- "And the Abscence of an Opposition Party to Resist It." 

What matters is that FRED and Joan can't stop people from saying what they think -- just complain about it.

I went back a few threads to see how astute we here are.
There were some interesting comments, maybe i should have gone back further. Heck there was an all hands-on-deck 3 day media push to promote Osama's video.
The best comment i saw was this :

""Sitka
Fri, 09/07/07
7:51 pm
Do you get the feeling that he may like our Gore?

My guess is that bin Laden is playing rovian politics -- trying to get into the heads of his opponents so they'll pick the people of his choosing. In his case, the GOP/NeoCons are who he wants in power since they will provide al Qaeda with the war both need and want. And the best way for him to help them is to praise their opponents, the Democrats.""

hmmm, close, i guess. More likely the boogey Bin Laden is dead, or unable to refute this forgery. That phoney (i know the CIA confirmed, yeah right) was a pretty poor fake, but then we wouldn't suspect the CIA to do such a poor job, would we?

Annnddddd, guess who we should support now because Bin Laden is against them? any guesses?

More likely the boogey Bin Laden is dead, or unable to refute this forgery. That phoney (i know the CIA confirmed, yeah right) was a pretty poor fake, but then we wouldn't suspect the CIA to do such a poor job, would we?

The duplicity of the US govt must always be considered. 

Independent have always been welcome here as DFA's policy of being an open blog, but until recently (having lost our moderator) people who call themselves "independents" have not been openly slanderous and insulting of the Democratic Party (or cutting-and-pasting other's slander and abuse) with no discussion into the details of a specific complaint on any specific issue in a civil forum, as they do now.

Lately, for them it has been more a matter of labeling and humiliating those who dissent from participating in the slander and humiliation that takes place on this blog.

Such behavior is not much different than right-wing trolling, but I am NOT referring to Robert Oler.

I never considered him a real troll and I don't think HQ did either. His ideas did not represent the mainstream of Democratic thinking, but he knew that, and simply disagreed in many ways from the Right side, as your "independents" claim to differ from the Left. I did not agree with Oler on most issues, but he did not continuously trash the Democratic party (or any party.)

I don't think he got kicked out. I think he left because he feared verbal abuse without the protection of a moderator. Also, he may have been humiliated by the fact that it was becoming obvious he'd been wrong about Iraq all along.

Well... the only movement hurtful to neocon and neodem interests out of Congress has been those against Corporate Lobbying corruption. At least there was a beginning of that much needed action.

Soooo, the pushback begins. 1)Hillary says that Corporations and their lobbyists are people too. hmmm

now, Bin Laden ties both the Rs and the Ds to corporations. Now the 'Wacky World' pavlov mentality works like this...
Now we should support the corporations to defeat al Queada!

Watch and see, i'm makin' the call.

p.s. the few who are now buying into the 'stay the surge/course' because of the 'broken pottery' or the 'horrendous losses when withdrawing' or the 'genocide' are fooling themselves.

OUT NOW!! IMPEACH NOW!!

158.

Sitka
Sun, 09/09/07
4:15 pm

Reply to this
What matters is that FRED and Joan can't stop people from saying what they think -- just complain about it.

=================

We never expressed such desire to stop free expression.

It is you and a few other that label, humiliate, and slander Joan and me and whoever is left, because we sometimes march to a different drum.

You accuse us of what you do - all the time - unrelenting.

BTW Joe Biden has gone completely looney tunes, it was the most pathetic thing i've seen since the last time Joe Liebersellout came on still dripping from blowing Cheney.

Well, back to putting together emergency election volunteers.

Play nicely... well, try.

Love ya'll, mean it!!

FRED from OR
Sun, 09/09/07
4:38 pm

... worst case of delusion, possibly ever.

BTW Joe Biden has gone completely looney tunes, it was the most pathetic thing i've seen since the last time Joe Liebersellout came on still dripping from blowing Cheney.

Insert Biden...... 

I am going to put up a you tube video of craig. it is funny. I hope it doesn't mess anyone's computer up. but sheri said our bfa blog is set up to take u tube stuff. be for warned and Deaniac, don't yell at me, ok?

just one in a row should work fine... i'm leaving for the day anyhoo

Peace!

FRED from OR
Sun, 09/09/07
4:38 pm
____________________________________________________________________________

Ima  "guest"..................and damn proud of it...............

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y1-lZhRq39g" title="" class="" />

In a war that has left more than 25,000 wounded, ALIVE DAY MEMORIES: HOME FROM IRAQ looks at a new generation of veterans. Executive Producer James Gandolfini interviews ten Soldiers and Marines who reveal their feelings on their future, their severe disabilities and their devotion to America. The documentary surveys the physical and emotional cost of war through memories of their "alive day," the day they narrowly escaped death in Iraq.

READ THEIR STORIES

• Jake Schick
• John Jones
• Jay Wilkerson
• Dawn Halfaker
• Jonathan Bartlett
• Crystal Davis
• Michael Jernigan
• Bryan Anderson
• Dexter Pitts
• Eddie Ryan

is one in a row and actual row?

158.

What matters is that FRED and Joan can't stop people from saying what they think -- just complain about it.  

I do believe sitka is delusional at times. Write whatever you like, I don't care, I seldom read your meaningless posts -- not worth my effort.

I only saw this one you did because Fred commented on it in his post.

Gone for the day, gotta go walk before the predictable afternoon storm start.

164. 167.

An example of what I mean, and what I guess Joan refers to.

You say the most bitter, critical things, that defame good people. And yet there are no specific details about your complaint. The insults and slander are shrouded in generalities. That's not civil - and as bad or worse than what anything a Right wing troll would do.

170.

Michael Ellis
Sun, 09/09/07
4:56 pm

Ima "guest"..................and damn proud of it...............

============
I don't care how you label yourself or how others label you, so long as you have enough liberal integrity not to cast label upon, slander, and humiliate others, who do not share your view.

That is getting hard to find on this blog.

You accuse us of what you do - all the time - unrelenting.

Even Biden's supporters are plagiarists. 

Oh NO. Please tell me we don't have more JoeMentum. That stuff makes me itch something awful.


I just returned from marching in a Parade. The Historical Hysterical Parade for Fiesta weekend. I marched with the Democratic Party and we had the AG, DA, County Commiss, US Reps, Judges,etc, all together. So many folks enjoyed my Gore promoting and many of them took buttons, some even put them on, even though Billie's running. I met a lot of new folks and have been invited for future events.

Time for a COOL change,
Gore
2008

Linda in NM, you are something else.

That is getting hard to find on this blog.

Mirror, mirror, on the wall...... 

So many folks enjoyed my Gore promoting and many of them took buttons, some even put them on

People are settling on the others, but everyone wants Gore. 

178.

Sitka
Sun, 09/09/07
5:31 pm

Even Biden's supporters are plagiarists

=============

More of your insults, slander, and attempts to humiliate.

I do believe sitka is delusional at times.

Maybe so. But I'm guessing Joan will think twice in the future before attacking this blog for being un-Democratic. FRED is of course a lost cause. 

I should have pointed out that days ago I told FRED he accuses others of what he himself is guilty of doing. He just repeated it back to me. 

Hence:  Even Biden's supporters are plagiarists.

180. Thank you :)

___________________


182. Oh, I agree. You should hear the folks reminisce and get excited about Al. One was telling me that that he did the driving here in SF and then was asked to be a driver for them down in ABQ.

Al Gore makes folks excited.

When people have party's, hopefully they have guests. This is not a party.  Enjoy, and march on DC Sept. 15th (if you can not, plan on Oct. 27th for Nationwide protest in the streets)  Impeach.

Peace... BRING THEM HOME, , and if you are a member of any party, tell the reps. NO to funding the war unless it is to BRING THEM HOME.

185.

Sitka

I told FRED he accuses others of what he himself is guilty of doing.

===============
That is simply false - I do not attempt to label people with defamatory labels, while slandering them in abstract terms.

Steve Fossett, where are YOU?

Great fun video.   "...nasty bad boy".....man, does this man have childhood  issues.  Maybe he caught himself masturbating in the closet.  Notice his thick glasses!  LOLOLOLOLOL

...and so it begins.

Following their testimony to Congress, General David Petraeus and Ambassador Ryan Crocker will appear exclusively on FOX News Channel on Monday at 9pm EDT for a one hour live interview with Brit Hume... Developing... 

new thread

linda b, that was a very funny video. I first tried to copy the entire link because it appeared broke, and it brought me to a page. After seashell said she saw it, I went back and just clicked it...and of course THAT WORKED.

OMG, these guys are too much.