The Deans, DFA and the DFA grassroots are first!

Since Edwards has an insurance based system my guess is the "mandatory" health care you were fussing over on the last thread is mandatory coverage.

Unions are first today The folks that brought you weekends, deserve a holiday.

Me, I'm working.  

Sitka
Mon, 09/03/07
3:03 am
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Its been my observation that many Americans eat for the sake of...........eating. Very naughty.

We can fix alot of our own problems however............take me, my blood cholesterol thaks to poor family history mainly hovers around the 200 range(borderline hi)...............

I tried quiting fast food entirely until my nxt check up and BAM...........185...............it was hard to do, and I missed Manuel, Rosaria and this weird teenage girl with a earring in her nose but I would occasionally get a fruit parfait instead.....................

I still smoke a cigar on vactions and holidays..............like tonite.

Edwards proposes a Medicare-like program for those that cannot afford health insurance.

As far as 9/11 conspiracy theories...
I think they are nutty. Bush is guilty of incompetence but not 9/11 conspiracy.
The right wingnuts want to see us diverted away from real isues of governance and into areas where only those who live under rocks live.

Well said Jim.

bbl

The theory about 9-11 I believe is that Bush/Cheney were in charge of National Security in the months leading up to it and they failed miserably in that task.

and you know that they knew al Queda was behind it by how quick they escorted bin Ladin family members out of the country while Americans were grounded

That they brought out Iraqi war plans within hours even though they knew it was bin Ladin means that they were happy to wait for a "terrorist incident" as a pretext.

and that is the conspiracy I believe

they weren't in on it, but they let it happen so they could go to war

my guess is they were looking for a car bomb to kill 30 not the massive attack that killed a hundred times that

but the facts since back up the logic of my "conspiracy" theory

they "conspired" to take us to war in Iraq

Just as now they are awaiting another pretext to take us to war with Iran, and Congress has so wimped out they don't even think they need to bother asking another authorization.

just a few short years

and we have lost our form of government, which was also part of the "conspiracy"

Phil Specht
Mon, 09/03/07
8:43 am

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Posts 8,9,10,1 and 12 all fair...........I concur.

Lets ake a trip down memeory lane though that we dont hear much about............1990.........saddam hussein has a beef with kuwait about territory, Bush 1 sends April Glasspie to tell saddam "the US government has no opinion with regard to your dispute with your neighbours" or something to that effect.....................sadam invades kuwait..........the US sends soldirs to saudi arabi, thus inflaming those like OBL and there ya go..............the first step toward 911.....................toss in the I/P dispute, american aid to you know who....................

factor in US foreign policy overall since 1945, look a Iran circa 1953 and the Shah..........and we have alot of dirty toilet paper that hasnt been flushed and mesy hands to boot..................

I think I see Phil's point.
Bush/Cheney wanted a super-powerful central government and decided a horrible national crisis would give it to them. They were hoping to use Sadaam as their foil and along came bin Laden. The conspiracy was to create a "King" and 9/11 gave them their excuse.

That is my point. 

I don't even think they were looking for a "horrible" national crisis, any old attack would have worked, which is why they were side tracked into Afganistan, when the oil fields were the targets all along. The monstrosity of the attack threw them off their stride. For their purposes it couldn't have worked better because the country was seeing red, but I don't believe they were "in on" the attacks on the Towers.

The facts back me up, which is why Conyers putting Impeachment back on the table is appropriate, especially for Cheney who I believe to be the architect. Bush is the front man brought in late,but not smart enough  or strong enough to call a halt to the whole scheme when the August 8th alarm about planes as missles was brought to his attention while on vacation.

They have plenty of culpability for the loss of life any day after that af course which is why it is ridiculus to think the American people will rally around Republicans with the next attack.

Their behavior allowed the last one. 

Good Morning all, and happy Labour Day.

I remain discouraged by the lack of focus and purpose among Democratic legislators, some of whom, incredibly, were taken in by the Pentagon's dog-and -pony show during their visits to Iraq. To quote once again from Stan Goff:

"Democrats!!! You will not get away with reformulating what we want with this weasel-wording. We don’t want a “change of direction” in Iraq. We want United States armed forces OUT of Iraq… NOW… every single one of them.

Since this “changing direction” is the manipulation mantra of the campaign, and since it is a cynical attempt to stay in Iraq indefinitely, while pumping sunshine up our collective posterior (until you Democrats can get elected), every time this furtive phrase is uttered we need to call them out.

Call and response…

CALL: “…changing direction”
RESPONSE: “Bullshit!”

http://stangoff.com/?p=526

Phil,
I don't think a minor attack would have worked because not enough Democrats wouild have supported mobilizing the military for war. They needed something big they could link to Sadaam, get enough Dems to support, and allow us to grab their oil.
What I find really frightening is the Iran war drums. Dems are standing around waiting for the bombs and the press already has their headlines written. The million dead Iraqis, our dead, and the many soon to die are already written off.

The monstrosity of the attack made their plan a "slam dunk"; they would have went forward with a much smaller one.

Out. Now.

All it took was the Saudi bosses to call Cheney in for a little tasking and the war against the Sunni baathists has ended.

If those pesky Iranians would just hand over their oil there would be peace in the meadow and we could all just enjoy today's picnic.

Labor in Fighting Trim
Washington Post

We've been had.

In fact, the American people got the shaft last Friday evening. Twice, in fact, and it came from San Francisco's liberal federal courts. There were two decisions favoring illegal aliens, big business, border destruction and sympathetic politicians on both sides of the aisle.

One allows Mexican trucks free travel across our border and throughout our country. The second stops the Departments of Homeland Security and Social Security from sending notice letters to employers to check on employee legality.

Attacking Iran does two thinks for Bush/Cheney
1 - Removes Iran as a threat to Israel.
2 - Iran will no longer be the most important country in the ME.

Either goal can be done peacefully but AIPAC won't allow it.

Order of attack

1.  Afganistan, Iraq, and the NW Territory of Pakistan

2.  Hamas

3.  Hezbollah 

4.  Iran 

After all, we are at war, right.  Sure we are; just ask Cheney. 

Well, it's Labor day and I see that our fearless leader is laboring today --

-- no, not clearing more b(r)ush at his Crawford, Tx ranch, rather, he's in Iraq doing a surprise visit (I do love surprises, don't you ?);

I just hope if he does another photo op with the troops (if that is part of his iterniary) at mealtime that he doen't drag out another fake turkey:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070903/ap_on_re_mi_ea/bush

Phil -

Ditto.

Imn2Paine
Mon, 09/03/07
9:55 am
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

The US has lost already.......................millions of pissed off muslims from hundreds of countries vs a couple of hundred thousand soildiers and a questionig populace at home..........................

The planes, ships, guided missiles and smart bombs are very pretty, but man on man we are only held to a stalemate.................a draft wont do uit either as the rich wont go, the poor will get roped into serving and the middle class will flee.............somehow

Drive by -- CSPAN is live in NH waiting to hear from Obama if anyone is interested.

http://washingtontimes.com/article/20070903/NATION/109030033/1001

"That's one of the things I'm proudest about our leadership is the swift action," he said. "It was best for himself, best for his family and best for the institution of the Senate."

Mr. Craig of Idaho said he intended to resign from the Senate Sept. 30 after it was reported last week that in June, he pleaded guilty to charges of disorderly conduct in a men's restroom after a police sex sting at the Minneapolis-St. Paul airport.

Meanwhile, the Senate Democratic campaign chairman said Mr. Craig's arrest showed Republicans are not serious about combating corruption within their own ranks.

"What the American people are looking for is not a blame game, but who is trying to clean it up," Sen. Charles E. Schumer, New York Democrat, said on "This Week." "For six years, there was no ethics reform."

Despite pleading guilty, Mr. Craig said that he did nothing wrong and that he intends to fight the charges.

Some Democrats have accused the Republicans of hypocrisy for pressuring Mr. Craig out while not also calling for the departure of Sen. David Vitter, Louisiana Republican.

Congressman Paul Hodges (DFA endorsed) is on cspan now Annilow

introducing Obama 

I was on stage with Hodges in NH for the Kerry rally on Halloween 2004 positioning the Teamsters logo over Kerry's (and other VIP speakers) right shoulder.  {what a freakin' gas)

Someone in the rally audience called out to Barak

"We love you!"

Sen Obama responded

"I love you back /;) 

Mrs Obama speaking first

she is campaigning because Barack has been CONSISTENTly for working and regular folk since she first met him  

"work toward building for the fouture for what it should be

we are at the center of our solutions

Consistent 

"Change comes from the bottom ^up"

Obama tips his hat to Paul Hodges' representation of NH and his advancement of Progressive values

"When it comes to America's problems... the American people are not the problem, the American people are the solution"

"We can be one people...that is why we are here:  we need a new direction" 

Obama is speaking as a grassroots Progressive

1. Obama is a lefty (handed).

2. Sitka I quit smoking much as you did so it works. Still haven't concurred food tho.

3. Seashell, I hope Edwards is mandating coverage and not checkups -- I'm afraid he has lost my vote (which he never had) if he is mandating checkups.

4. Ultimate conspiracy theory -- say crop circles are from other intelligent beings and they are 'running the show ' - ie, Bush et al are just doing as they're told. Problem with this theory -- I like to think the ET's are 'good guys' -- would intervene just to save us from ourselves. That movie (Crop Circles) talked about 'balls of light' around the crop circles. People have seen (and photo'd) the balls of lights.

38. concurred s/b conquered -- d*mn homonyms

#23,
#4 supposedly supports #2 and #3.

There is almost no discussion of Iran from the many church leaders that were against the Iraq War. Either they think it won't happen or they have been beaten down by an ignoring public, press and government.
I mention this because at our last church council, I proposed a public statement asking for diplomacy in resolving the Middle East conflicts. We did sign a statement from the National Council of Churches trying to stop the invasion of Iraq and are joining a national interfaith fast calling an end to the Iraq War which will be held on October 8.
But except for charging those who wish war as irresponsible, churches are not offering joint courses of actions with other denominations. These preceded the Iraq invasion. The public and press were not concerned then and the Christian community has not taken strong enough action to aid the Iraq civilian population. They seem to be afraid of criticism instead of understanding that one can judge their effectiveness by those that complain.
The concerns churches now have deal more with health care and immigration.

Do you believe any of the conspiracy theories suggesting the U.S. government was somehow involved in 9/11?

I don't disbelieve it. The Bush Regime has shown that they will do anything to advance the NeoCon agenda.

Do you believe any of the conspiracy theories suggesting the U.S. government was somehow involved in 9/11?

I don't disbelieve it. The Bush Regime has shown that they will do anything to advance the NeoCon agenda.

"fundamental  belief ...

that I am my brother's keeper"

 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Obama really speaks to my heart.

18.

What I find really frightening is the Iran war drums.

dog,

It is imperative for Congress to cancel the Authorization for Use of ilitary Force Against iraq Resolution of 2002.

Part of that resolution reads:

Whereas the President and Congress are determined to continue to take
    all appropriate actions against international terrorists and
    terrorist organizations, including those nations, organizations, or
    persons who planned, authorized, committed, or aided the terrorist
    attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001, or harbored such
    persons or organizations;

Whereas the President has authority under the Constitution to take
    action in order to deter and prevent acts of international terrorism
    against the United States, as Congress recognized in the joint
    resolution on Authorization for Use of Military Force (Public Law
    107-40);

Who decides just which organizations, nations or persons? The president!

Time to move and declare the resolution no longer valid.

Dodd 2008

Sitka,
I don't think Bush/Cheney is capable of keeping a secret like that hidden. Too many people have to be involved. If anything, they are guilty of gross negligence.
Everytime a possible smoking gun comes up, they find a scrapegoat (Tenent).

44,
The rub is you need 60 votes in the Senate.
That never was a problem when Dems were in the minority.

Obama really speaks to my heart.

~~~~~~~

A most gifted orator. Do his brothers that he keeps include Iranians is the question.

I don't think Bush/Cheney is capable of keeping a secret like that hidden. Too many people have to be involved. If anything, they are guilty of gross negligence.

Looking the other way would require less conspiracy. 

Obama will have universal health insurance by end of first term and won't let special interests stop it.

"We will have Universal Health care by the end of my first term"

I (Obama) will not allow the insurance (?)industry spend a billion dollars fighting" 

48.

Good and provocative question, Phil. 

An army of new teachers working with them not against them, make college education available to all, use comm coll to bolster America's workers. Let unions do what they do best - organize. Quit giving tax breaks to companies sending jobs overseas.

America has not lost it's moral standing - no greater mission than restoring America's image - starts by ending this war.

The rub is you need 60 votes in the Senate.

Democrats don't need 60 votes to bring bills to the floor and at least force Republicans to take unpopular stands on them while showing the people who put them in power they're on their side. They also don't need 60 votes to not give Bush everything he demands.

We can end this war w/o G Bush and if we don't it'll be the first thing I do as Pres.

I (Obama) will not allow the insurance (?)industry spend a billion dollars fighting"

The Supreme Court may have something to say about that. Advertising is free speech.

Which Obama is showing up?
The community activist Obama who did try to make the lives of poor people better.
Or the Obama that says he will bomb Pakistan and leave nukes on the table?

I find Obama inexperienced in everything.
Biden is clueless about domestic policy and Edwards the same about foreign policy.
Dodd and Richardson are appealing more to me. I see Dennis as a younger Gravel whom I really like.
Hillary really bothers me. For a while she sounds like she has her stuff together then she responds with something like "Lobbyists are people too!" Her candidacy and Presidency are already sold to the highest bidder.

Obama advocates talking to all leaders of nations (...even Cuba and  Iran)

Advocates diplomacy, which IMHO answers PHIL'S question @ 48.. 

Strong pres shouldn't be afraid to talk to our adversaries - that's how smart diplomacy works. I want to go back and say 'America's back!'

Close Gitmo -restore habeas - show world we do not ship prisoners in dead of night - lock prisoners away with no hope - that's not who we are - we liberated a continent from a madman - we are the beacon that has led generations of weary travelers find hope and opportunity (ed note: hope they were legal lol).

I will always tell you what I think and where I stand. Always be honest. Listen to you when we disagree. Open gov't ask you to be involved in your own democracy.

I know what I ask is hard. Politicians have disappointed you - when you walk away the same old politics win every time -- we need you -- can't do this alone -- asking you to trust yourelves - bet on us together - lift our sights - make this campaign the vehicle for your hopes and dreams - work and fight for it -

58. Sitka

>

I hear you.  I may have failed to accurately quote Sen Obama, but he may have a strategy to check the free speech of the Washington politics of special interests.

I ask you to believe in this dream that we call America.

If Obama reveals himself as the heir of Dr. Kings message of universal brotherhood will those who use hate as their political stock in trade put such a messenger on the list of enemies of America. Of course. 

Sitka,
They can bring anything to the floor but they need 60 votes to overturn anything.
That doesn't mean they shouldn't try and let the public really see who is selling them out. By not even trying, Dems became equal partners in the Iraq War.

dog soldier
Mon, 09/03/07
11:34 am

>

The former; no talk of agression against other lands. 

Seashell was right:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070902/ap_o...

Edwards backs mandatory preventive care
By AMY LORENTZEN, Associated Press Writer Sun Sep 2, 6:30 PM ET
TIPTON, Iowa - Democratic presidential hopeful John Edwards said on Sunday that his universal health care proposal would require that Americans go to the doctor for preventive care.

So lets see if I get this straight.
If I don't go to the doctor, I go to jail?
How about if no medical care is available? We lived in places where the nearest doctor was over 70 miles away.
Edwards is getting desperate. He needs to stop pretending he is a viable candidate.

"Lobbyists are people too!"

>

Too often the baggage we bring with us misinterprets the words we hear.

IMHO the above quote only states the obvious:  the free speech of all interests cause those interests to contribute to campaigns, the they individual citizens, PACs - like DFA, Capital, or Labor interests.

But that's more the way I see

what Sen Clinton said, which makes me a bad boy in some eyes here.  Too bad. 

the they s/b be they

Bushie is making a surprise visit to Iraq right now with Condi, Peter Pace, and others in tow.

He has obviously lost the homeland war for hearts and minds just as he's lost the real war over there.

As for conspiracy theories and 9-11, I concur with the majority that feel the administration neglected the situation and pot-stirred it, but without any real idea of what the actual conequences would be, only that some kind of hostile action was desired.

I assume they expected an attack on the level of the first WTC attack, scary and dramatic, lots of good video, small actual loss of life.

One fact alone convinces me they wanted aQ to do something. They laid down an ultimatum to Afghanistan to expel OBL in 2001. Afghanistan's response was to name OBL commander-in-chief of ther military. Our response was zero. This all transpired in August of 2001 and I remember reading it at the time.

If they weren't pot-stirring for an attack they would have gone after him before 9-11 ever happened.

Happy Labor Day one and all!

-- volney

Ugh!  Bush takes time for a photo op

at Asad Air Base, Western Iraq 

I would like to see the sanctions against Cuba end. They were started in a very different time. Cuba was essentially the sabatoge arm of the USSR. Cuba was active in Africa and the Americas killing the folks we weren't killing. We recognize and do business with China. We need to allow free activity with Cuba.

65.

Geezalou, that's just flat out dumb.

If there's one thing most Americans agree on (in fact most human beings) is they don't like being forced to do stuff by government.

I have a huge distrust of organized medicine and as a result, my chiropractor is my primary. John Edwards can bite me.

-- volney

After careful thought here is what I come with for my candidates...................................

sitka..............President

Fred.................VP

dog soldier, LZ...............Secretary of Defense and Joints Chiefs

Phil.....................Agriculture

Terri...........national health

David Stevenson.............Commerce

rd and mprov...........International relations

Monica.........Secretary of State

Joan in Fla, Jo In Vt, annilow, Linda, Lindab...............oversee sitka and fred and protect constitution and womens rights

Rick Kolker...........Attorney general

Robert Oler..............Ambasador to Iraq

me?  log cabin, BC...........mountain bike, flint, no cable, no computers, no tv.................................10 years supply rum and cigars

dog

If Edwards beats Hillary and Obama head to head in Iowa where the average voter has seen all of the candidates he is viable to the average American and then the real fight for the nomination begins

til then

all talk of viability is spin

True enough Phil but do you think Edwards will stay ahead or even with Obama or Hillary with statements like his recent mandatory medical insurance?

Schools require physicals and most employers do too. But mandatory medicine doesn't pass the common sense test. I'd look for a clarification. Sounds like he mis-spoke.

Jeremy Ring, a Florida legislator, who endorsed Obama, is unendorsing him because Obama decided to abide by DNC rules.

Florida Democrats are acting like a bunch of "you know what holes."

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1471

Edwards increased his lead in the last poll. Time will tell. Howard Dean mandated preventative state involvement with pre-schoolers and most public schools require vaccinations which are also preventative.

WIC nutrition plans are preventative. Richardson calls for mandatory P.E.

Swartzenegger and Perry are both on record as Republican Governors calling for mandated preventative steps.

I'll have to see the text and context not just a reporter's view of what he said.

Seat belt useage is mandatory.

he may have a strategy to check the free speech of the Washington politics of special interests.

It's more likely Obama's just talking out of his hat to get votes now. In light of the fact that four Dem President with large Dem majorities in congress have failed to enact the promise that has been in their party's platform since 1948, I'll wait for it to actually happen beforeIi believe what any Democratic prez candidate says about it.

TTFN

mandatory.

.....is a word that should be applied in politics to prison terms, not ordinary people. The GOP will have a field day with it.

I also wonder how Edwards plans to require people to see a doctor regularly. Withold coverage if they don't? Make them go to emergency rooms for basic care? What about kids whose parents don't comply?

He needs to drop the "mandatory" rhetoric ... or better still, go back in time and never propose it. 

76.

Phil, the last employer I had who required a physical was a PBS affiliate TV station I worked for in 1975. I doubt they require a physical anymore.

Since then I've worked many other places. The most any of them wanted was for you to fill out a form listing any conditions you have. The phone company had me do an "insurance physical" in 1979 that consisted of listening to my heart and having me touch my toes and make a fist.

I currently work for the retailer with probably the best health care plan out there, JC Penney. They offer you money incentives to have preventive tests (money to use for future co-pays). This is only available for full-time employees, who are relatively few in number.

-- volney

73. What? No role for me?

POST-MORTEM AMERICA

"I have never killed a man, but I have read many obituaries with great pleasure." -- Clarence Darrow

http://www.counterpunch.org/floyd09032007.html

Huron John
Mon, 09/03/07
12:23 pm
___________________________________________________________________________

Ethics Committee.................Lead investigator to US foreign policy since 1945...........paine, special counsel to ME

as a farmer the government mandates all kinds ot things of me so I guess I'm just used to it.

the word has enough negative connotations that it is inpolitic to use it though

Phil,
Anything can be mandated. The issue is enforcement.
If you don't want to take a required job physical or drug test then don't take the job. Most jobs do require drug testing.
If you don't want to force mandatory shots on your kids then there is always homeschooling. I say that lightly but one of my brothers homeschooled all four of his kids and they are doing great.
Not wearing a seat belt while driving is a moving violation. Too many of those and you are not driving legally.
How are Ahnold's mandates enforced?

So how is Edwards going to enforce his mandate?

After careful thought here is what I come with for my candidates...................................

sitka..............President

" If nominated, I will not run; if elected, I will not serve." -- William T. Sherman

OK, I have been trying to work through something.  As many of you recall, there were attacks on Dean from two directions in 2003.  One came from the Club for Growth and the other from a shadowy group headed up by a former fundraiser for Richard Gebhardt.  And the Club for Growth was also connected to Gebhardt via ?

The consultants and media producers for Club for Growth were/are Basswood Consulting and Red Sea LLC whose Jon Lerner writes opinion pieces for the National Review Online--one of the latest ones suggesting that Fred Thompson ought to announce his VP early and maybe choose someone like Judd Gregg of NH.

At the same time, Steve Murphy, who used to be Gebhardt's consultant as part of something called Murphy, Putnam Media, is now the campaign manager for Richardson and appearing on FOX to trash Edwards, at the same time that he's hired on that scumbag deVallis who concocted the anti-Clinton ad supposedly on behalf of Obama.  There seems to be a lot of scum accumulating in Richardson's barnyard.

Which, believe it or not, brings me to the question of what is the Club for Growth up to?

The first candidate in this cycle that the Club endorsed was JOHN E. SUNUNU and now we've got one of their consultants suggesting that the other NH Senator be tapped as a VP candidate.  At the same time, they're running ads AGAINST Huckabee, even though his record would seem to put him clearly in the conservative camp.

So, is it possible that the ads against Huckabee are designed to suggest that he's a moderate because the Club for Growth is against him?  And is the Richardson campaign just a spoiler to derail ? competitors?

The Club for Growth was originally financed by the same fellow who provided Bill Clinton with seed money at a crucial moment.  The question is, since that fellow supported Bushes at all other times, whether the money to Clinton and the indirect support of Gebhardt were just intended to set up pins to take them down.

THE LAST MAN STANDING SYNDROME 

Yeah but with the new unitary presidency courtesy of 'W', Sitka can party until he drops.

Published 12:00 am PDT Monday, September 3, 2007

The following speech was given in the 1979 pro-labor movie "Norma Rae," for which Sally Field won the best actress Oscar with her impassioned portrayal of a union organizer. Actor Ron Leibman, whose character was named Reuben Warshovsky, delivered the speech.

On October 8th, 1970, my grandfather, Isaac Abraham Warshovsky, age 87, died in his sleep in New York City. On the following Friday morning, his funeral was held. My mother and father attended. My two uncles from Brooklyn attended. And my aunt Minnie came up from Florida.

Also present were 862 members of The Amalgamated Clothing Workers and the Cloth, Hat and Cap Makers Union of America -- also members of his family. ...Read full story: http://www.sacbee.com/110/story/356058.html

They can bring anything to the floor but they need 60 votes to overturn anything.
That doesn't mean they shouldn't try and let the public really see who is selling them out. By not even trying, Dems became equal partners in the Iraq War.

I agree. DCDems need to at least remember who brought them to the dance, as well make the GOP be the party of Bush and obstruction. Instead, they continue to either do nothing, or worse, put their own fingerprints on Bush's policies.

What is to prevent them from bringing a health insurance law to the floor? Or censoring Bush? Or refusing to pass his wiretap and war funding measures?

Political cowardice is what prevents them. 

REPUBLICAN PROPAGANDA

I would like to see the sanctions against Cuba end. They were started in a very different time.

It's the Hatfields and McCoys. Even the phoney reason for being against Cuba -- USSR ally -- ended decades ago. The only reason left to be against them is that they've shown socialism in a poor country works better for the people than unbridled capitalism in a rich one.

See picture of Bush/Rice and Gates in IRAQ.    SURE they are.  It's 110 degrees and Gates and others standing out in the sun IN DARK SUITS AND TIES!   NOT!

http://www.abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=3552389&page=1

Another Rumsfeld..uh...I mean Bush Production?

Friday on Wash Journal when Brian Lamb had the head archivist on, one story was about a letter from ten year old Fidel to FDR asking for $10 (I don't remember his rationale for asking) -- he didn't get his $.

Biden bets on Iowa to boost candidacy

DAVENPORT, Iowa - Democratic presidential candidate Joe Biden, behind in polls and campaign money, is betting the farm on Iowa's leadoff caucuses, hoping a strong showing will rocket him to the top of the field.

If not, Biden admits he'll be an early footnote in the race for his party's nomination.

"I'm counting on Iowa a lot," Biden said in an interview with The Associated Press. "My expectation is that I come in first, second or an indistinguishable third. To tell you the truth, if I don't, then this has been a nice exercise and I'll see you again when you come to visit Washington."

Biden, 64, brings a blue-chip resume to his second bid for the ...

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070903/ap_po/biden_s_bet_5;_ylt=AiYk61BSG9ejnedw.WTkrT0E1vAI

87.

dog soldier
Mon, 09/03/07
12:38 pm

They could maybe refuse to cover you (with insurance) if say you got breast cancer but hadn't had the mandated mammogram.

Steel, mine workers unions back Edwards 

PITTSBURGH - John Edwards won the endorsement of the United Steelworkers and the United Mine Workers of America as more than 1,000 union members cheered the Democratic presidential candidate....

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070903/ap_po/edwards_unions_9;_ylt=Au2HtQhQjig0Eey7tzO7vCYE1vAI

Bush at Al Asad Air Force Base:  The largest U.S. base in Iraq and the most secure, due to it’s secluded location.   Celebrities and politicans can visit here. Like other large bases in Iraq, Al Asad offers amenities including an indoor swimming pool, Post exchange, Burger King, Pizza Hut, a Subway restaurant and a Green Beans Coffee Shop.  The Marines have nicknamed Al Asad "Camp Cupcake" due to its conveniences that most other areas lack...

To get a TRUE FEEL of the situation in Iraq - Bush goes to CAMP CUPCAKE?

Figures.... (if he's really there at all)

Lovely picture of Gen. Petraeus with a 'thumbs up' pointed at da Bush.  Condi in semi open flats -- must have hot feet in that 110 plus degree sand.  And not a drop of perspiration on any of them.  Amazing - Bush, Gates, Condi and Petraus don't sweat!

73. I wanna be the prezident -- how come I never get to be the prezident. Also Seashell and Judy need a job.

49.


Only if Obama has come up with another change in his health care, because he never was advocating Universal Health Care and his policy plan is not a Universal Health Care.


But we've learned they can make any changes to what they say they want and will do. He started off trying to tell people they really don't want a Health Care program, and was advised, uh, yes we do. But he still seems to be holding firm with "nothing like Canada has".


_______________________________


So, question, if we called today "Union Day", would the Republicans have worked to get rid of it, or would they demand a Special Interest Day as their balance?

But we've learned they can make any changes to what they say they want and will do.

Especially when they probably have no intention of doing it anyway -- or even talking about  health insurance once the primaries are over.  At that point the nominee will stop pandering to the people and start reassuring corporatists that she/he isnt really a "redistributionist" Democrat.

Howard Dean: Democrats Are Fighting for America's Working Families
Mon, 09/03/2007 - 13:52 — newsdesk


August 31, 2007 -- Washington, DC- As Americans celebrate Labor Day this weekend, new Census data from last week confirms that Americans are struggling to get by. In 2006, wages declined, the number of Americans without health insurance rose to 47 million, and the number of children without health insurance grew to 8.7 million children.

In honor of Labor Day, Democratic National Committee Chairman Howard Dean issued the following statement:

"Americans across the country will observe Labor Day this weekend by honoring the contributions of America's working families. But under the failed leadership of President Bush and his Republican friends, wages have declined, the number of uninsured has increased, and gas and college costs have risen. Yet President Bush and his Republican allies continue to put their special interest friends ahead of American families.

"Democrats are keeping their promises to America's families. Under a Democratic Congress we have increased the minimum wage for the first time in over a decade, passed a bill to make college more affordable by cutting student loan interest rates, passed legislation to give health care to millions of low-income children and fought to protect workers' rights to bargain collectively and form unions. Instead of working with Democrats, Republicans prefer to block progress, and President Bush has threatened to veto legislation that is critical to America's working families.

"As we look towards 2008, the choice between the Republican and Democratic presidential candidates is clear. All of the Democratic candidates are committed to making sure the American Dream is available to everyone, while the Republican candidates want to continue President Bush's narrow special-interest agenda. Electing a Democratic president next year will ensure that America's working families come first."

Jeremy Ring, a Florida legislator, who endorsed Obama, is unendorsing him because Obama decided to abide by DNC rules.

Florida Democrats are acting like a bunch of "you know what holes."

+++

floridagal -

So, Ring has taken back his endorsement "ring".  Sounds like an Indian giver.

Jeez, the raucous that Howard Dean has started in rebellious Florida, the same state who messed up the 2000 vote away from Gore.

Go Howard !

Sitka, yes.

And I told hubby your method for quitting smoking. He said "interesting". I told him I think that's what he has to do. :)

And I told hubby your method for quitting smoking. He said "interesting". I told him I think that's what he has to do. :)

I hope for the best. I feel like I escaped from death row and want to help anyone I can to break out too.

so Obama is learning what...just stay slightly left of Hillary and he will win?
Having been a public advocate, you would think that Obama would understand the fears people have of getting sick and becoming homeless.
Tell me again why is it ok for 18k people to die each year in this country because they lack medical care?

Everytime I hear him speak, I get caught up with his delivery and charisma. But carefully evaluate what he said and you realize he said nothing; or leaves the listeners with more questions then answers.

This is from the article Fred mentioned about Biden.
------------------------------
Others aren't convinced.

University of Iowa political science professor Bruce Gronbeck said Biden has a habit of talking his way into trouble.

"I don't think he's showing much traction," Gronbeck said. "There's a sense he's something of a loose cannon."

Drake University political science professor Dennis Goldford said Biden can't keep his head out of Washington, often burying voters with arcane detail.

"He talks like a senator, not a president," Goldford said. "The forest gets lost in the trees."

Even those more optimistic about Biden's chances said he must convince Iowans that he could be a top finisher. Few caucus-goers want to venture out on a winter night to support an also-ran.

Democratic strategist Ron Parker said Biden has convinced voters he's qualified, but now must assure them he can win.

"He's got to demonstrate he's in the top tier, or otherwise he's in big trouble," Parker said.
---------------

Fred thinks Biden has great credentials, but the foreign policy guru fell for the Iraq War Authorization while someone like Dennis didn't.
Look at Biden's domestic policy agenda...there is nothing noteworthy. His health care plan is stay-the-course but be better at it. Biden said he would bomb Iran if they had a nuke missle on the pad. The smart move is to work to remove all missles and work to be a better world neighbor.
Dennis has a real plan for people that need health care. People won't die because of a lack of medical care.
Obama made a political decision to allow folks to die. Just like he is making a political decision to advocate premptive bombing and using nuc. weapons.
He is becoming as much a phony as Hillary.

As Secretary of Defense, I tend to model the military after the Swiss.
Everybody loves them and they have cool knives.
So what would my military have that is cool.
Well, obviously, titanium covered beer coolers to keep the suds wet and cold in the most adverse conditions.
After all, there is nothing worse then coming off that deer hunt having wasted 50 clips of ammo on full auto while driving to discover your beer is cold. Nope..that will never happen on my watch.
After all, you go hunting with the beer cooler you have; not the beer cooler you need. I intend to send my kids into action with the best beer coolers money can buy.

Fred thinks Biden has great credentials, but the foreign policy guru fell for the Iraq War Authorization while someone like Dennis didn't.

=========

I don't know why this is such a big deal - Hillary, Dodd, Edwards also voted for authorization. 

Richardson's memos and speeches during his tenure as UN ambassador addressed to Saddam Hussein, could easily be mistaken for Bush quotes in their warlike tone.

Why is this always the focus of criticism for Biden? 

As I was telling Sitka yesterday.  Bush would have found an excuse to invade Iraq one way or another - he didn't need the Resolution vote for logistics and planning.  It was purely for political cover, which ironically the Left inadvertantly still gives him, as much as the Right does, by making the Iraq Resolution the "reason" Bush invaded.

The truth is that Bush broke the spirit of the law of that Resolution,  by invading without any bone fide diplomatic negotiations with Iraq, when Inspectors ran into relatively minor problems.

dog,

I think all the candidates would make good Presidents, but Biden has done the most to plan and think about a way to end the civil war there, and is on record as being as much for "out now" as any other Democratic candidate.

Fred,
Becaue you keep bringing up Biden's great foreign policy experience and he is really a party hack.
Sure he made the mistake others did. So much for his 27 years of foreign policy experience. The point is, his experience means squat if he isn't experienced or courageous enough to see what the real story is.

To give the excuse that Bush would have invaded anyway is hollow at best and absurd at least.
He would not have found such a willing Congress, public or press. The authorization gave him cover.
Biden of all people should have known this because once power is given away, it can't be easily regained!
What biden has done is sit at a big table for 27 years and eat at the public trough.

Only someone as dumb as Biden would think that Bush had no intention of invading Iraq. Article 3 in the resolution gives him the ability to doing so.

Why did a rank amateur like Dennis see through this? How about the good Dr. Dean?

dog soldier
Mon, 09/03/07
2:05 pm
___________________________________________________________________________

Again........Bidem and a vast majority of the Congress were TOLD to go along with Bush.........from their masters in the ME

too much change is not good --

vote for the white male Southerner candidate :

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=3553051&page=1

By TERRY MORAN
Sept. 3, 2007

The North Carolina Democrat, who has lagged far behind Sens. Hillary Rodham Clinton, D-N.Y., and Barack Obama, D-Ill., in national polls — but who leads in the crucial early caucus state of Iowa — got the support of both the United Steelworkers and the United Mine Workers of America.

...

Clinton had tried hard to block the steelworkers' move, personally contacting union president Leo Gerard, according to a source close to the union's deliberations.

One key selling point Edwards is making to unions — and increasingly to the crowds that come to hear him speak in Iowa, New Hampshire and other early nominating states — is that he stands a better chance of winning a general election than either Clinton or Obama. And in fact, polls show Edwards does better than either of his main rivals in head-to-head matchups with leading Republicans.

The implicit argument Edwards is making is subtle, but unmistakable: As a white, Southern man, he is better positioned to win across the country than a woman from New York or a black man from Chicago.

"John Edwards is a candidate who can campaign and win in Pennsylvania, Ohio, West Virginia, Kentucky — places where Democrats can and should compete," Edwards said of himself in his speech in Pittsburgh. "I will campaign everywhere in America."

...

Dennis has a real plan for people that need health care. People won't die because of a lack of medical care

===========

I like Dennis and I am really concerned about what kind of plan can get through Congress, but the fact of the matter is the Health Care plan is not something I believe the President will compose.  It will be the business of Congress.

The most important job for the President will be to approve or threaten vetoes of certain components in the plan.  To act as a sort of overseer.  I think any of the candidate would be good for that.

In the absence of this occupation and civil war, that would be my main concern, but moving to end the civil war and get the troops out yesterday is where Biden would be most capable IMO.  Good intention are good but his experience, planning and meditation on the both the Civil War and the occupation (8 trips to Iraq) makes him numero uno.

Fred,
And as far as the Biden Iraq exit term paper, he has never mentioned one word on how it is to be implemented.
Before any plan is suggested, a framework agreeable to the Iraq people must be put into place.
Biden is typical of a career politician. Long on rhetoric, short on implementation. When he makes his 99th trip to Iraq, maybe he should ask his hosts what they think of his plan and how to start getting there?

Only someone as dumb as Biden would think that Bush had no intention of invading Iraq. Article 3 in the resolution gives him the ability to doing so.

============

That's your opinion and you are Monday morning quarterbacking.  I don't think any of the Democrats who voted for the Inspections saw "intentions to go to war" in the wording of the Resolution.

115.

...

The implicit argument Edwards is making is subtle, but unmistakable: As a white, Southern man, he is better positioned to win across the country than a woman from New York or a black man from Chicago.

...

+++ 

Edwards key selling point IMO is bordering on being sexist, racist and regionalistic. I hope he clamps down on that tendency that says only a white male can become President, because no woman or black has ever attained that office.

Otherwise, he's not much of a change agent. 

FRED from OR
Mon, 09/03/07
2:16 pm

___________________________________________________________________________

They were cowards and rolled the dice..........gambling on the lives of American soldiers and Iraqi civilians.................a blind man could see it with a cane coming............

Fred,
You give too much credit to Congress. What makes you think leadership on issues that go against their lobbyists is going to pass? Thanks to Bush, the next President will have more power then presidents before Bush. How this power is applied is the most important thing.
Biden's domestic agenda is lacking. We don't have a whole lot of control over how the war is resolved. Any resolution will depend on us leaving. Domesticly, there are a ton of issues that need someone who understands people's needs. Dennis is the only one who meets the requirements.

Fred,
And as far as the Biden Iraq exit term paper, he has never mentioned one word on how it is to be implemented.
Before any plan is suggested, a framework agreeable to the Iraq people must be put into place.

==============

This is not true dog.

You just haven't read enough of his plan or heard enough of his speeches.  The federalization of Iraq has already been approved by the Parliament and scheduled to go into effect next January.  Will Maliki and the Shiites abide by it and make that giant step?  Doesn't look like they will without some kind of outside diplomatic influence..  We'll see.

http://planforiraq.com/documents/pfi.pdf  or http://www.joebiden.com/issues/?id=0009

http://blog.thehill.com/2007/08/23/like-bush-some-of-my-democratic-colleagues-cling-to-flawed-premise-sen-joe-biden/

121.

Mike -

No governmetn role for you in 73 ?

I would have figured you out to be Secretary of the Interior.

Michael Ellis
Mon, 09/03/07
2:21 pm

============

You are confusing the "case for war" with the Iraq Resolution for Inspections.  They were months apart.  There  was no vote for the "case for war"  it was political grandstanding and only used to get coalition countries to go along.

Fred,
You have to be kidding me.
The entire world except our Congress lackies saw this one coming.
Congress voted because they were afraid not to. Many like Kerry and Edwards knew at the time it was wrong. Others admitted later. Some still think it was the correct vote.

The vote shows peoples values. Is it the short-term gain from showing "toughness" or is it the long-term humanity that premptive war is wrong.

I have said repeatedly that the reason people voted is more important then the vote case.

Biden's view on the vote
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05320/606...

"The only regret I had voting for the war is that i never anticipated how incompetent the administration would be in using the authority we gave them to avoid war.
--------------------------------------------------------------

As if Bush's performance prior and the neocon drum beating wasn't known.

OT (again) -- anybody tried this service? Just wondered about opinions -- saw it advertised on CNN. Costs $10/mo.

http://www.lifelock.com/

They do stuff (you could do yourself if not lazy like me) to tighten up areas where people might be fooling w/ your credit. Just wondering.

If Joe Biden can get the Biden-Boxer-Brownback legislation passed by 2/3 majority - I think we could start getting out of Iraq this winter and start ending the civil war next Spring.  This might give new life to his campaign, but I really don't care if he wins the primary or not.  I just want to see his idea working.

I also want a cabinet position; maybe roving reporter at large or better still Sec'y of Buddhism. I'll turn all those biblical fundis into Buddhists.  By Buddhist force!  Mandate meditation, yoga for all, respecting all people, not killing any sentient being...you know MAKE them do this.

As for mandating preventative care,  this country has reached a  point where it doesn't know what's good for it or even the difference between right and wrong.  Let's take the overweight people who are not genetically predisposed to it....if they won't go to doctors who tell them to quit eating so much,  are the rest of us supposed to pay for their ensuing diseases?  Overeating is like alcoholism.  I think overeaters should be mandated to go to OA meetings like drunk drivers are mandated to go to AA meetings.  It's a spiritual disease, always trying to fill the emptiness that yoga and meditation etc actually DO fill - as well as the 12 step programs.

Å lot less OT bible and a little more of a  modern spiritual approach would help the country immensely.   Most everyone I know could benefit hugely from some 12 step program or other and those programs teach a spiritual way of living...nothing is mandated.

Ånd while we're at it, one child per family, period. Pay people generously to adopt.

Mandates might be the only thing that save this country since many people are too spiritually ill to care for themselves, much less others. 

IMO spiritual illness and emptiness are the root of the problem in this *Xtian nation.*   They lead to greed, lies, wars, thefts, murder, genocide, insanity.

We are a fear-based society, bereft of spiritual wisdom and underestanding and compassion.

How about yearly mental checkups?  Maybe instead of saying "mandated" we could actually pay people to do this.  Yes, just pay people to get checkups and that should work since money is so important in this society and we have plenty of poor folks who could use the $.  Pay people to take yoga and mediation courses.  In this society,  you have to pay to get what you want.  How about reversing this?  Pay us to give us incentive to lead healthier lives?  Pay us  WELL to go to a Buddhist retreat. Pay us NOT to have children.  We've been doing it all backwards! 

Or if not Sec'y of Buddhism, maybe Sec'y of Blather.  LOL 

dog soldier
Mon, 09/03/07
2:32 pm

...Biden's view on the vote
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05320/606...

"The only regret I had voting for the war is that i never anticipated how incompetent the administration would be in using the authority we gave them to avoid war.
--------------------------------------------------------------

As if Bush's performance prior and the neocon drum beating wasn't known.

===========================================

Talk facts, dog, not opinion and innuendo.  The entire country was hysterical with 9/11 and Afghaistan had everyone's approval.  There were deaths from Anthrax.   I found nothing wrong in your link with what Joe says.  I say the same thing.

It is sad that Bush took advantage of that hysteria and framed the Resolution for Security Inspections in Iraq as an approval for War, but deception is something everyone has had in their lives.

You did not see the folly and disaster of Viet Nam that ruined your life - before you went?  We all made mistakes and misjudgements. 

PS  And pay people NOT to join the military.  Yep, we've got it all backwards.  In the long run, we'll be richer and healthier, betcha!!

Fred,
Read Biden's plan again.
Step 3 is actually step 1.
And that is the bigee.
If that odesn't happen for any reason, there is no step 2.

That is something we cannot impose on anyone.

Also, biden wants to leave troops in the country (Step 4).
Nothing like leaving 20k targets in place. Like the locals are really going to want us around.

The locals don't want al Queda either and Iran and Iraq will probably forge some kind of a deal or alliance. The only predator is the good old US of A.

We need to get out ASAP.

Look, whomever didn't know that putz was a putz even before 2004 is not very bright.  All you need to know is a tiny bit of history of the family and of him to know that he was going into Iraq.  Also, did any of our critters ever read the PNAC.  It was all right there.  They either knew or are frankly quite stupid.

Annilow
Mon, 09/03/07
2:34 pm

==========

Interesting, but isn't this what we pay taxes for?

Sorry,
A whole lot of the country was not hysterical; just those who drink the kool-aid and watch the MSM.
I guess you must have missed the anti-war marches and petitions that took place before the invasion.
I guess you missed the stand taken by the National Council of Churches and the Catholic Church before the war started.

No Fred, there was many of us who protested this thing. Some were vets like me who been there, done that. Others were parents who didn't want to see their kids killed. And others didn't think we should be making premptive war on anybody. The link between Iraq and al Queda was known to not exist and I knew of no one who thought Sadaam had a hand in 911. If anything, Saudi was the culprit.

So Biden and his bunch of nitwit Congress folks were stuck on their own little island. Biden is still there.

....That is something we cannot impose on anyone.

=================

please take the time to read carefully

http://blog.thehill.com/2007/08/23/like-bush-some-of-my-democratic-colleagues-cling-to-flawed-premise-sen-joe-biden/

Ah yes, the ME masters.  There are many puppets in Congress doing their bidding,knowing it's wrong for this country.

Dog, those Mexican truck drivers will love your beer cans as they roll thru our country and backyards. 

Linda in Sfnm....

You might mention to hubby the plan I used to quit smoking. I reduced the number by one cigarette each day. When I got down to one, I stayed at that level for a few days while I talked myself into giving that one up. I didn't have any withdrawal at all because a lot of toxins were leaving my system gadually along the way. Of course you still have to make that decision at the end to give them up entirely, but it seemed like it was a lot easier than doing it earlier.

seashell, did I miss your birthday?  Hope you had a good one.

Sorry,
A whole lot of the country was not hysterical; just those who drink the kool-aid and watch the MSM.
I guess you must have missed the anti-war marches and petitions that took place before the invasion.

=====================

I was against the invasion

Again you see the Resolution vote and the Invasion as the same - they were not.  They were six months apart.  The Resolution was in October 2002.  After Christmas, Bush started making the case for invasion.  The UN Inspectors protested that their work was not done, but Bush and his cronies, degraded, disrespected, and disregarded them as idiots.  They were experts in their fields.  After worldwide protests, the invasion for occupation commenced in March 2003.

That was not what they voted for in October 2002.

Fred,
You and Biden miss the most important step.
Yep, they have a Constitution and it is about as valuable as the paper it is written on - at this time.

The only way any settlement or discussion can be started must less reached is for folks to stop killing and start talking.
And they will never talk as long as we are there to kill; or we are killing them.

The Biden term paper is a good read but the first step is stop the violence. To stop it, we need to set exit conditions.

After that, anything is possible. The time is past for a strong central government. The time may be past for people to live peacefully within the regions.

I remember Howard saying that he would deliver Health care to everyone in six weeks, and then we could work on making it single payer under Medicare would be the easiest.

Just for comparison.

Read the resolution and tell us what section 3 says. Maybe Biden and the others should have read it first.

Thank you, Donna, it was lovely.

Helping those already sick is one thing;the half of it.

The other is prevention.  Pay women to have mams for example.

Read the resolution and tell us what section 3 says. Maybe Biden and the others should have read it first.

=========

Be happy to read it and discuss it - do you  have a link?

Fred,
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/...

I gotta go.
I'll check back in tomorrow.

73.

michael

LOL good choices. Enjoy your trip to BC.

I'd choose Jasper Alberta for myself, at least in the warmer months.

Read the resolution and tell us what section 3 says. Maybe Biden and the others should have read it first

=========================

OK - so here it is.  What about it, dog?

Joint Resolution to Authorize the Use of United States Armed Forces Against Iraq 

SEC. 3. AUTHORIZATION FOR USE OF UNITED STATES ARMED FORCES.

(a) AUTHORIZATION. The President is authorized to use the Armed Forces of the United States as he determines to be necessary and appropriate in order to

(1) defend the national security of the United States against the continuing threat posed by Iraq; and

(2) enforce all relevant United Nations Security Council Resolutions regarding Iraq.

(b) PRESIDENTIAL DETERMINATION.

In connection with the exercise of the authority granted in subsection (a) to use force the President shall, prior to such exercise or as soon there after as may be feasible, but no later than 48 hours after exercising such authority, make available to the Speaker of the House of Representatives and the President pro tempore of the Senate his determination that

(1) reliance by the United States on further diplomatic or other peaceful means alone either (A) will not adequately protect the national security of the United States against the continuing threat posed by Iraq or (B) is not likely to lead to enforcement of all relevant United Nations Security Council resolutions regarding Iraq, and

(2) acting pursuant to this resolution is consistent with the United States and other countries continuing to take the necessary actions against international terrorists and terrorist organizations, including those nations, organizations or persons who planned, authorized, committed or aided the terrorists attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001.

(c) WAR POWERS RESOLUTION REQUIREMENTS. --

(1) SPECIFIC STATUTORY AUTHORIZATION. -- Consistent with section 8(a)(1) of the War Powers Resolution, the Congress declares that this section is intended to constitute specific statutory authorization within the meaning of section 5(b) of the War Powers Resolution.

(2) APPLICABILITY OF OTHER REQUIREMENTS. -- Nothing in this resolution supersedes any requirement of the War Powers Resolution.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/10/20021002-2.html

* rdorgan
Mon, 09/03/07
2:26 pm

___________________________________________________________________________

Nope.........people like me dont live long in this government...........Id be opening up a lot of cans of worms.................

I gotta go.
I'll check back in tomorrow

=====================

Fine but did a search of the entire Iraq  resolution and could not find "invade" "invasion" or "occupation" except for the first line, as shown below

Joint Resolution to Authorize the Use of United States Armed Forces Against Iraq

Whereas in 1990 in response to Iraq's war of aggression against and illegal occupation of Kuwait.....

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/10/20021002-2.html

The implicit argument Edwards is making is subtle, but unmistakable: As a white, Southern man, he is better positioned to win across the country than a woman from New York or a black man from Chicago.

...

+++ 

Edwards key selling point IMO is bordering on being sexist, racist and regionalistic. I hope he clamps down on that tendency that says only a white male can become President, because no woman or black has ever attained that office.

Otherwise, he's not much of a change agent. 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

His key selling point is that there are forces in Washington thwarting the best interests of average Americans that need to be stood up to, making him the most believable change agent in the bunch because his walk matches his talk of his life work. Obama makes a similar and nearly as valid a claim. Hillary says the same but for her a bit more of a stretch.

Phil Specht
Mon, 09/03/07
3:30 pm

=============

Agree - People should talk about  what they do or will do, rather than what they are

Audrey, thank you. I'll share that with him. I always smoked more than he did (does), but then again, men don't have to put up with menopause. :)

August 2007 is the HOTTEST Month...EVER.

And 15 Major Cities had their hottest ever.

As I was telling Sitka yesterday.  Bush would have found an excuse to invade Iraq one way or another

And as I replied then, that is the bottom-of-the-barrel excuse for giving him the authorization he demanded. 

Bush put on a poker face and bluffed, and half of the DCDems folded . 

100's in LA...up to 107 and 108 in burbs of LA-Riverside and Santa Clarita.

tsss, now that's HOT

People should talk about  what they do or will do, rather than what they are

What they've done is a more reliable barometer. 

Back for a quickee...
Fred,
so you don't see having a section three included at all?
I am really puzzled.
Section two talks about diplomacy.
Section three should have neen omitted.
You can say that Bush twisted the intent. Sure he did but section three allowed him to do it.
Section three paragraph a gets a million people killed.
It should have been ommitted entirely.

If Joe Biden can get the Biden-Boxer-Brownback legislation passed by 2/3 majority

First he'll have to get the legislation to make pigs fly. 

But if he could even get it up for a vote -- which he won't --  he'd have accomplished something. 

We should never give a premptive blessing to go to war.

They were cowards and rolled the dice..........gambling on the lives of American soldiers and Iraqi civilians.................a blind man could see it with a cane coming............

That's why I don't buy the excuse that the Dems who voted with Bush were merely stupid dupes -- who have somehow miraculously gotten smart since then.. 

We should never give a premptive blessing to go to war.

The Constitution bestows the burden of deciding whether to go to war on Congress -- but they have somehow twisted it to mean that they can give a president that responsibility.

Stupid Constitution! 

His key selling point is that there are forces in Washington thwarting the best interests of average Americans that need to be stood up to, making him the most believable change agent in the bunch because his walk matches his talk .....

C'mon Phil! The guy voted for some of the most odius aspects of Bush's agenda. Edwards' talk does not match his walk.

am getting screamed at...am already late...
by now..will play more tomorrow

Nobody's talk matches their walk except Kucinich and Gravel and the bosses in the ME won't let them be viable.

Gore is the only one left if Dean or Feingold don't/can't run.

We are now owned by the ME and China and our foreign policy is set by AIPAC.

Let's just shop and eat, OK? 

Nobody's talk matches their walk except Kucinich and Gravel

With regard to Iraq, which is to me the litmus test this primary year, I'm willing to give Obama and Richardson benefit of doubt since they did not vote on it. I have some other beefs with them, but they aren't totally damned as the WarDems are.

Gore is the only one left if Dean or Feingold don't/can't run.

Only he can stop the Hillary machine. 

Any Statement from Gore on record on the Iraq Resolution on or before October 2002?

If we cannot find one, maybe the Neocons can.

77.

Jeremy Ring, a Florida legislator, who endorsed Obama, is unendorsing him because Obama decided to abide by DNC rules.

Florida Democrats are acting like a bunch of "you know what holes."

Though I don't live in Ring's district, I emailed him to find out just who he WILL endorse, since every viable Dem candidate has also decided to stay out of Florida.

Not that it matters much. Ring was just elected in 2006 and doesn't have much political influence.

Dodd 2008 -- the endorseable alternative candidate!

Endorsed by  International Association of Fire Fighters,

That's the same IAFF that endorsed Kerry when he was polling zilch. Watch out!

Any Statement from Gore on record on the Iraq Resolution on or before October 2002?

I shouldn't do FRED's homework for him.........

If we cannot find one, maybe the Neocons can.

The last thing NeoCons want people to know is that Gore was right. NeoCons are comfortable with the WarDems since their criticism of Bush is undercut by hypocrisy. 

dog soldier
Mon, 09/03/07
4:04 pm

==========

We to be honest, I haven't looked at the this

(c) WAR POWERS RESOLUTION REQUIREMENTS. --

(1) SPECIFIC STATUTORY AUTHORIZATION. -- Consistent with section 8(a)(1) of the War Powers Resolution, the Congress declares that this section is intended to constitute specific statutory authorization within the meaning of section 5(b) of the War Powers Resolution.

(2) APPLICABILITY OF OTHER REQUIREMENTS. -- Nothing in this resolution supersedes any requirement of the War Powers Resolution.

 =============

which says

 SEC. 8. (a)  Authority to introduce United States Armed Forces into
hostilities or into situations wherein involvement in hostilities is clearly
indicated by the circumstances shall not be inferred--
     (1)  from any provision of law (whether or not in effect before the date
of the enactment of this joint resolution), including any provision contained
in any appropriation Act, unless such provision specifically authorizes the
introduction of United States Armed Forces into hostilities or into such
situations and stating that it is intended to constitute specific statutory
authorization within the meaning of this joint resolution;

Sec. 5....(b)  Within sixty calendar days after a report is submitted or is required
to be submitted pursuant to section 4(a)(1), whichever is earlier, the
President shall terminate any use of Untied States Armed Forces with respect
to which such report was submitted (or required to be submitted), unless the
Congress (1) has declared war or has enacted a specific authorization for
such
use of United States Armed Forces, (2) has extended by law such sixty-day
period, or (3) is physically unable to meet as a result of an armed attack
upon the United States.  Such sixty-day period shall be extended for not more
than an additional thirty days if the President determines and certifies to
the Congress in writing that unavoidable military necessity respecting the
safety of United States Armed Forces requires the continued use of such armed
forces in the course of bringing about a prompt removal of such forces.

=============

So it looks like the Iraq Resolution authorized War if necessary but removal of troops within 60 days in the absence of a declaration of war.

So the "war on terror" is really an illegal occupation, just like Viet Nam was an undeclared illegal war.

Sorry here's the link for that

http://usinfo.state.gov/usa/infousa/laws/majorlaw/warpower.htm

114.

Michael Ellis
Mon, 09/03/07
2:12 pm


Again........Bidem and a vast majority of the Congress were TOLD to go along with Bush.........from their masters in the ME
_________________

136.

seashell :-)
Mon, 09/03/07
3:05 pm

Ah yes, the ME masters. There are many puppets in Congress doing their bidding,knowing it's wrong for this country.
---------------

I've already understood that it is beyond my ability to convince some AIPAC "fans"...lol, that their confusion of Masters with their Proxies may have just rattled effect.

However I'll remind again, that as any other confusion it:
- distracts attention;
- makes understanding of true causes of events much harder to
make;
- and is hiding those true causes behind false targets.

It may, of course, please the feelings of easiness and simplicity of the surrounding reality and its events but will hardly add any true value to their actual understanding.

171.

Sitka
Mon, 09/03/07
5:05 pm

.........
The last thing NeoCons want people to know is that Gore was right....

----------
I actually think (after re-reading this 2002 speech again) that Gore himself could rewrite it SIGNIFICANTLY...if it is to be written today.

Any Statement from Gore on record on the Iraq Resolution on or before October 2002?

I shouldn't do FRED's homework for him.........

oops:

could rewrite it = would rewrite it

160.

dog soldier
Mon, 09/03/07
4:06 pm

We should never give a premptive blessing to go to war.
-------

Yes, the preemptive war concept is the concept for aggression.

Homework - bullcrap - you googled something up but you have no quotes or definitive statements - I am reading it now but so far it looks like Gore is trying to be a hawk and dove at the same time - still reading - bbl 

FRED is handed what it would have taken him 15 seconds to find for himself and gripes about it not being edited for him (and if it had been edited he would have griped about that.) 

As for FRED's interpretation of it, he's obviously scrambling in his own end zone.

Yes, the preemptive war concept is the concept for aggression.

Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan are the company Ayatolla Cheney and Bushpuppet keep. 

FROM Sitka's LINK OF GORE'S STATEMENT  9/23/02

http://www.gwu.edu/%7Eaction/2004/gore/gore092302sp.html

...I’m speaking today in an effort to recommend a specific course of action for our country which I believe would be preferable to the course recommended by President Bush.  Specifically, I am deeply concerned that the policy we are presently following with respect to Iraq has the potential to seriously damage our ability to win the war against terrorism and to weaken our ability to lead the world in this new century.

        Nevertheless, Iraq does pose a serious threat to the stability of the Persian Gulf and we should organize an international coalition to eliminate  his access to weapons of mass destruction. Iraq’s search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to completely deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power....

WHAT CONGRESS SHOULD DO

I believe, therefore, that the resolution that the President has asked Congress to pass is much too broad in the authorities it grants, and needs to be narrowed. The President should be authorized to take action to deal with Saddam Hussein as being in material breach of the terms of the truce and therefore a continuing threat to the security of the region. To this should be added that his continued pursuit of weapons of mass destruction is potentially a threat to the vital interests of the United States. But Congress should also urge the President to make every effort to obtain a fresh demand from the Security Council for prompt, unconditional compliance by Iraq within a definite period of time. If the Council will not provide such language, then other choices remain open, but in any event the President should be urged to take the time to assemble the broadest possible international support for his course of action. Anticipating that the President will still move toward unilateral action, the Congress should establish now what the administration’s thinking is regarding the aftermath of a US attack for the purpose of regime change.

....But  is a general doctrine of pre-emption necessary in order to deal with this problem? With respect to weapons of mass destruction, the answer is clearly not. The Clinton Administration launched a massive series of air strikes against Iraq for the state purpose of setting back his capacity to pursue weapons of mass destruction. There was no perceived need for new doctrine or new authorities to do so. The limiting factor was the state of our knowledge concerning the whereabouts of some assets, and a concern for limiting consequences to the civilian populace, which in some instances might well have suffered greatly.....

===========================

Sounds like he was for a Resolution but against the invasion, like most Democrats who voted for the Iraq Resolution...but dog did a better job of pointing out the fine print in Section 3.

153.

FRED from OR
Mon, 09/03/07
3:55 pm

Agree - People should talk about what they do or will do...
------------

I prefer people who just DO..., without talking.
When they start talking it often reminds me attempt TO SELL.
When there is a SELLING present there is no place for TRUTH.

Sounds like he was for a Resolution but against the invasion, like most Democrats who voted for the Iraq Resolution

They should not have voted for it if they were against it. 

"I find it curious that physical courage is so common in the world, and moral courage so rare." -- Mark Twain 

If Joe Biden can get the Biden-Boxer-Brownback legislation passed by 2/3 majority

First he'll have to get the legislation to make pigs fly. 

But if he could even get it up for a vote -- which he won't --  he'd have accomplished something. 

====================

Make all the jokes you want - but at least you admit, it maybe will be a first time anyone has really done something to end it, beside grandstanding or trying to cut funding.

Even if the legislation passes, he will have to make it work - Bush may put up roadblocks but the pressure will still be on him from his party.

Sounds like he was for a Resolution but against the invasion, like most Democrats who voted for the Iraq Resolution

They should not have voted for it if they were against it.

==========

Suddenly Kerry comes to mind

When there is a SELLING present there is no place for TRUTH.

Truth is sometimes there, but too often set aside or overlooked in favor of making a sale.

FRED is handed what it would have taken him 15 seconds to find for himself and gripes about it not being edited for him (and if it had been edited he would have griped about that.) 

As for FRED's interpretation of it, he's obviously scrambling in his own end zone

it maybe will be a first time anyone has really done something to end it,

If maybe will be's were nuts and beer Democrats would have a hell of a party. 

September 03, 2007: Obama Calls for End to Special-Interest Politics, Return to Sense of Possibility

181.

FRED from OR
Mon, 09/03/07
5:27 pm

============

Sounds like he was for a Resolution but against the invasion, like most Democrats who voted for the Iraq Resolution...but dog did a better job of pointing out the fine print in Section 3.
----------

Good point Fred!

That's why I believe he almost certainly would re-write that speech if written today.

Nevertheless, we may recall that 23(21 ?) persons DID NOT VOTE for the Resolution. That's a big number of people who were able TO SEE THROUGH!

We also may recall that just few European countries except "puddle's" country reluctantly contributed essential forces into coalition, majority made just symbolic gesture.

What I'm saying is that it is, of course, tough to make political choice in the time of national (even international) psychosys...., hence even more we have to value opinion of those who were independent and brave enough, not to bend own spine to keep self-respect.

People can forgive (but NOT FORGET!!!) those who demonstrated little vision and spine

What is unforgivable, imo, is to try to re-evaluate past events for the porpoise of self-excuse..., through "deep", multiple worded explanations..., Biden one of those.

who demonstrated little vision and spine = who demonstrated little vision and spine BUT THEN acknowledge it

Obama sounds so good when he says nothing.  Doesn't he consider AIPAC a special interest?  Forked tongue, like Clinton.

former, speak clearly please when mentioning proxies. You sound like pol.  :-) 

If maybe will be's were nuts and beer Democrats would have a hell of a party.

============

At least he's trying like crazy to do something ASAP, and has a detailed plan, and bipartisan support - you can talk about his vote in 2002, etc, but who else is doing what he is trying to do NOW - not when they get elected etc.....?

It maybe will be a first time anyone has really done something to end it,

Not even close. You end it by leaving, as Kucinich, Gravel, and Richardson propose.

former
Mon, 09/03/07
5:52 pm

============

I don't think Biden is asking for forgiveness - he knows he goofed and Kudos who voted against it - I don't remember if I had an opinion at the time - it was a very busy time for me and I wasn't watching politics that much,

but having been informed myself, I probably would have been against the Iraqi resolution, since

I was even against military action in Afghanistan because,  I thought (1)we  did not have yet enough intelligence, (2) too many civilians would get killed,  (3)Bush had announced it and the element of surprise was no longer there, (4)we could have used sanctions, isolation, and espionage infiltration to get bin Laden and break up the Taliban.

193.

seashell :-)
Mon, 09/03/07
5:55 pm


former, speak clearly please when mentioning proxies. You sound like pol. :-)
-----------

Proxies = Israeli Government (in that case)..., Saudi Government (in another case)...., ANY Government which agrees to cooperate (to serve) USA Government.

What "pol" is?

Not even close.

============

Not even close is right, John,  they don't have as many details in their plans, say little about a political solution for ending the civil war, don't seek feasible bipartisan support, and talk about in the future tense, if they were elected...

Biden has made his plan the centerpiece of his campaign and talks nearly every time he's in public.

Kucinich, Gravel and Richardson may have "plans" but don't come close to the details and intensity that Biden works on his.

If you have links, I'd be happy to look at their plans, as i have provided links to Biden's plan many many times.

196.

FRED from OR
Mon, 09/03/07
6:05 pm

I don't think Biden is asking for forgiveness -
---------

Should read little bit more careful before replying...

That's for his disadvantage he is not asking...

Kucinich, Gravel and Richardson may have "plans" but don't come close to the details and intensity that Biden works on his.

zipping thru, will be offline til end of week. moving is not fun but getting settled will be great!

♥'s to all

Kindness is free!

Kucinich, Gravel and Richardson may have "plans" but don't come close to the details and intensity that Biden works on his.

200.
Huron John
Mon, 09/03/07
6:21 pm

Reply to this

Kucinich, Gravel and Richardson may have "plans" but don't come close to the details and intensity that Biden works on his.

You don't need a detailed plan to order a withdrawal--how it's done is up to the generals.

==================

You and I have different priorities then - even though this is a Bush War I still think as Americans, Democrats have a responsibility not to abandon this country, since this country did so much to screw it up.

I am not talking about a combat mission.   I am talking about finding political solutions to the end of the civil war.  Where are the political solutions in Gravel, Kucinich, and Richardson's plan?  Richardson, Hillary and Obama (and others) have admitted Biden has a good plan.

  Ending Bush's "war on terror" (moving out our combat troops) and finding these political solutions are not contrary to each other.

They can be done simultaneously, with international help, and this also allows us to bring moderate Republicans into the fold, to override a veto and/or end a filibuster, (even if we had a Democratic President.)

Biden doesn't have to be President for us to use his plan as a starting point for these solutions, but I support his plan, whether he is runs or not.  

former
Mon, 09/03/07
6:13 pm

Reply to this

==========

You are confusing Biden with Hillary - he admits he made a mistake

204.

FRED from OR
Mon, 09/03/07
6:37 pm

==========

You are confusing Biden with Hillary - he admits he made a mistake
--------------

Really?
Then I'm sorry..., you might be right, very hardly may recall it..., probably because his "self-admission" sounded rather like "self-excuse".

Yes, Hillary, first on that list.

At least he's trying like crazy to do something ASAP

He may be "trying like crazy, " but Biden's accomplishing nothing. And I don't even support what he wants to do.

even though this is a Bush War I still think as Americans, Democrats have a responsibility not to abandon this country, since this country did so much to screw it up.

1. America's responsibility is to get out of Iraq now.
   
2. America did EVERYTHING to screw it up.
   

It doesn't matter at all to me if these pols now admit their mistake or not since I knew they were wrong all along.

Someone at DFA must have forgotten to switch on the auto-pilot for the next thread!

Labor Day Message to Congress: Stop Bush’s Illegal Plan

September 3rd, 2007

In a matter of days the Bush administration is going to illegally open our highways to unsafe Mexican trucks.

And though the Department of Transportation says it will inspect every truck, the fact of the matter is it can’t. Sure, they are starting the so-called pilot program with 151 cherry-picked trucks and even the DOT can manage to conduct that few inspections. But in a year when the Bush administration calls the so-called pilot program a “success” and opens the border to all Mexican trucks, how are they going to protect our highways then?

http://blog.thehill.com/2007/09/03/labor-day-message-to-congress-stop-bushs-illegal-plan/

Babies can be abandoned; not a nation of 24 million people.

The absence of Americans does not signal abandonment. 

Sitka
Mon, 09/03/07
7:01 pm

============

Everybody makes mistakes...Obama, Kucinich, Gravel, Richardson, Gore, etc. nobody has a perfect record

I don't defend Biden's mistakes.  I like him for what he is doing looking forward.  That they other candidates are not doing what he is doing - that is presently their mistake, and will still be a misake if they get elected.

The biggest mistake are mistake of what we don't do.  What opportunities are lost, and I see that mistake being made by many  candidates in both parties - regardless of the vote in 2002.

Everybody makes mistakes...Obama, Kucinich, Gravel, Richardson, Gore, etc. nobody has a perfect record

Yeah, some people back their car into another in a parking lot and others run over a pedestrian while drunk.

Not all mistakes are of the same magnitude. 

I don't defend Biden's mistakes.

FRED doesn't even admit a mistake was made when he claims half of the DCDEms voted not for war, but inspections.

<>That they other candidates are not doing what he is doing - that is presently their mistake, and will still be a misake if they get elected.

<>Democrats can choose a nominee who doesn't have to admit to a colossal blunder. 

<><>The biggest mistake are mistake of what we don't do. 

<>In that case shooting first and asking later would be the best thing to do.<> But it isn't --  and wasn't.

What opportunities are lost, and I see that mistake being made by many  candidates in both parties - regardless of the vote in 2002.

Now FRED equates Democrats to Republicans. Welcome aboard!

former, that's what I thought about the proxy remark.

Pol = politician  :-) 

<>Russ Feingold: Subterranean NeoCon Blues

It's Youtube, but I didn't want to wreck anyone's day by posting it here. 

95.Sitka

It's the Hatfields and McCoys. Even the phoney reason for being against Cuba -- USSR ally -- ended decades ago. The only reason left to be against them is that they've shown socialism in a poor country works better for the people than unbridled capitalism in a rich one.

>

Commerce is Queen and unbridled capitalism rapes abuses her.

.

What opportunities are lost, and I see that mistake being made by many  candidates in both parties - regardless of the vote in 2002.

Now FRED equates Democrats to Republicans. Welcome aboard!

===================

I don't equate you with either party - or even the human race if you don't care about the people who die every day in Iraq's civil war.

I don't equate you with either party

Well I'll be! Even FRED can't be wrong all the time. 

or even the human race if you don't care about the people who die every day in Iraq's civil war.

I care most about the Iraqis who have been and are being killed by Americans and demand that it end. FRED and the NeoDems want it to go on indefinitely and bring about many more thousands of deaths.

I won't say FRED is not of the human race --  even Hitler was. Sadly, murdering one's fellow beings -- or countenencing it --  is all too human a virtue.

Theres a new thread............Im first again of course...........

thanks sitka

here is Obama's full speech from  today:

Link to Audio of full speech <http://soundbyte.barackobama.com/090307%20Manchester%20Rally.MP3>

Theres a new thread............Im first again of course...........

All I can find is the old one. Strange. Anyboody have a link? 

I care most about the Iraqis who have been and are being killed by Americans and demand that it end. FRED and the NeoDems want it to go on indefinitely and bring about many more thousands of deaths.

================

FRED can speak for himself.  He doesn't need a creep named Sitka to LIE to people about what Fred  thinks.

But that's what you do best - Shitka  (oops, typo) LIE and spread scum.

Fred and Biden don't think there is any difference between death in the civil war and death from U.S. combat operations.  Death is death

And your making a distinction between one kind of death or another for political reasons is disingenuous and phoney

I won't say FRED is not of the human race --  even Hitler was. Sadly, murdering one's fellow beings -- or countenencing it --  is all too human a virtue

===============

you have to be the worst kind of scumbag to say something like that - it is not funny - you really suck

From here on I shall refer to you as Scumbag Sitka

224.  Fred, I have been coming here since this blog began during the Dean campaign.  There always seems to be one blogger who confuses argument with name calling.  I should think that as an adult you would know this, but calling ANYONE a "scumbag" is simply unacceptable.  Shame on you.

 224.

donna in evanston
Mon, 09/03/07
9:41 pm

===========

Sorry but I said "IF  you don't care about Iraqi deaths from the civil war and here is how he responds" and here's what he says about me

FRED and the NeoDems want it to go on indefinitely and bring about many more thousands of deaths.

I won't say FRED is not of the human race --  even Hitler was. Sadly, murdering one's fellow beings -- or countenencing it --  is all too human a virtue.

That's a scumbag.  And you cannot defend that - you should be telling him what he said about a nother blogger is not true and not acceptable or you are as bad as he is.

donna in evanston
Mon, 09/03/07
9:41 pm

=============

What Scumbag Sitka said was not an argument - it was aweful false things to say about someone simply because they don't share a POV.  That's a scumbag.  And he admits he is not a Democrat - so he is a scumbag coming here and saying false, ugly things about Democrats.

Then I guess I'm as bad as he is.  He disagrees with you.  That doesn't make him a "scumbag" and I would guess the majority here would agree that I'm not one either.  Make your points Fred.  But nix the name calling.  Please.

Addressing him as Sumbag Sitka is not name-calling, it is identifying him - everybody here knows what a scumbag he is.

That's our FRED!

Fred, this is not the DNC blog.  You don't have to be a Democrat to be here. 

Sorry his name is Scumbag Sitka from now on - and if I get kicked off this blog - well so be it - but that's his name - no rules for him - no rules for me

FRED won't get kicked off for this outburst. He's done much worse and gotten away with it.

Scumbag say whatever he wants to say - no matter how mean, false, antagonizing - he thinks it is a joke - well why can't I do the  same thing to him?  It's just a nickname, funny, huh?  Scumbag Sitka, get used to it.  I've had to get used to his abusive lies and insults.

Scumbag Sitka, you have gotten away with much worse for too long - treat people with disrespect and that's what you get - it all comes back

Sigh.  I'm tempted to recite "Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words can never hurt me." 

I'm tempted, but I won't.  It's all to childish.

 donna in evanston said, "Make your points Fred.  But nix the name calling.  Please."  

>

The lady asked nicely, Fred.  Stop it.  You might...treat others as you would have them treat you.

Or ignore.  Please just ignore.  It's your best weapon, Fred.

If I respected FRED -- or thought others here really did and weren't just being nice to him -- I would care about his epithets. Same as with Oler.

It's just water off a duck's back.

Sitka, could you fashion a voodoo doll for your amusement?  I don't know, but it might help with environment if you did the stickin' in private.  But, then again, I am no one to give advise.

Sitka, could you fashion a voodoo doll for your amusement?

I would never inflict physical harm on anyone. But then, maybe I could use it to turn FRED into a nice quiet zombie? 

This lady is going to ask nicely as well. I lurk here every once in awhile, but it's always the same thing.

I'm with donna on this one. She and I, as well as a very few others that currently post here, have been coming here since the summer of 2003.

This place used to rock - bigtime. In its current state, it's a shell of itself. A ghost town, and often, a pretty scary one at that.

I also agree with donna, and have to say that this is NOT a blog just for Democrats. Sitka and many others who have since left never towed any party line. That is what was so great about the Dean campaign. People of all different political persuasions came here with a common goal - to bring democracy back to America.

It's what DFA stands for - Democracy for America.

No one should be doing any kind of name calling, or making assumptions that certain posts are aimed at them (ie, taking things personally), or in any other way be disrespectful to a fellow blogger. That applies to everyone.

If ya wake up on the wrong side of the bed (or political side of the equation) on any given day, why not just skip blogging for the day and come back when a better mood hits?

It doesn't have to be sunshine, lollipops and rainbows, but some respect would be nice - mutual, if at all possible.

Try it folks. You'd be surprised who might come back and post. This place just might rock again someday.

Where's the new thread please.  This is still the main one.

Thanks. 

Sitka

>

Whoa Man! haha are those christmas stockings nailed to the fireplace mantle?  Yowzer)

Moon Cakes

To get the traditional round shape, you don't need a special mold. I used a metal 1/3-cup measuring cup, and greased it well. If you have a wooden mold for moon cakes, soak it overnight in vegetable oil.

INGREDIENTS:

Dough

2 cups flour

1/4 teaspoon salt

2 tablespoons brown sugar

4 tablespoons chilled margarine

1/4 cup water

Filling

2 tablespoons chopped nuts of choice

2 tablespoons toasted sesame seeds

2 tablespoons pine nuts

4 boiled chestnuts, peeled

2 tablespoons finely chopped apricots or dates

4 tablespoons brown sugar

2 tablespoons margarine

1 tablespoon flour

Glaze

1 egg + 1 teaspoon sesame oil

INSTRUCTIONS:

The dough: Sift together flour and salt into a bowl. Whisk in brown sugar. Cut margarine into 1/2-inch cubes; quickly mix into dry ingredients with a pastry cutter until it forms small pea-size crumbs. Sprinkle dough with half of the water, lifting it with a fork to distribute liquid. Add remaining water. Quickly gather dough into a ball, handling it as minimally as possible. Put dough in an oiled bowl, cover with a towel and set aside.

The filling: Combine nuts, sesame seeds, pine nuts and chestnuts in a food processor; process until finely ground. Mix in dried fruit and remaining filling ingredients.

To form cakes: Preheat oven to 400°. Grease a baking sheet. Roll out dough as thinly as possible on a floured board. Cut out 6 circles big enough to line your mold. Grease inside of mold and line with 1 circle of dough. Spoon in one sixth of the filling and wet the dough along rim. Cut out 6 circles of dough just big enough to cover filling. Place 1 circle over filled cake and press down firmly to seal. Unmold cake onto baking sheet. Continue forming and filling remaining cakes.

Beat together egg and sesame oil. Brush top and sides of moon cakes with the glaze. Bake for 30 minutes, or until golden brown.

Yields six 2-inch diameter cakes

are those christmas stockings nailed to the fireplace mantle

The google caption called the picture "Zombie Santa."

Amy Winehouse

CD: Back to Black
Song: "Me and Mr. Jones"
Label: Republic

We do not have the label's permission to play the full version of this song.

Listen to a sample of "Me and Mr. Jones"

http://www.npr.org/programs/asc/archives/20070809/

YUUUM!

Unfortunately, everything I no longer eat. I'll go have a good cry now.

LOL puddle - ♥

Ah, I see the nightly testosterone fest has broken out.

In that case I'm hitting the sack but not before responding to post 88.

Monica, if you detect things gatherng around Richardson's doorstep, that says to me that he is, indeed, the Clinton operative I feared he was from the beginning.

IMO, you can follow any given dirty tricks trail to one of two sources: Karl Rove or the Clintons. I would guess deVellis was paid by Hillary to do the anti-Hillary commercial. That's the way the game is played.

Nite all.

-- volney
Secretary of Nothing at All

wOOT!

Some great medicine we all can use.

September 3, 2007

OUR MEETING WITH MAHONEY

"U.S. Rep. Tim Mahoney, D-Palm Beach Gardens, met with our editorial board Wednesday for a freewheeling question-and-answer session. Among the congressman's comments:

He has met individually with most of the 2008 Democratic candidates for the presidential nomination, but hasn't determined who he will endorse. Mahoney said there is "a very good chance" that former vice president Al Gore will make a bid. If Gore does, he will be "very formidable" because Gore has been "right" on his predictions about issues such as Iraq and global warming, Mahoney said."

http://www.tcpalm.com/news/2007/sep/03/t...

Anoushka Shankar and Karsh Kale

CD: Breathing Underwater
Song: "Breathing Underwater"
Label: Blue Note

http://www.npr.org/programs/asc/archives/20070823/

Take note of all the nice ladies who have addressed you tonight,  Fred.

No one wishes you ill.  Be well.  I'm gonna git sum rest.  Night.

Paine, did you see the cool new instruments mprov most likeley will be getting?....on overnight thread....waaayyy cool.



bbl


Need an espresso and go for a walk.

there is "a very good chance" that former vice president Al Gore will make a bid. If Gore does, he will be "very formidable" because Gore has been "right" on his predictions about issues such as Iraq and global warming, Mahoney said."

Hillary has might, but little right. Gore has both. Only he can stop her machine.

Need an espresso and go for a walk.

Great idea.

Everybody, PLEASE be nice to FRED while I'm gone. 

It's what DFA stands for - Democracy for America.

No one should be doing any kind of name calling, or making assumptions that certain posts are aimed at them (ie, taking things personally), or in any other way be disrespectful to a fellow blogger. That applies to everyone.

===============

Yes it does apply to everyone even - Scumbag Sitka

And when people aweful contemptuous things about people in a joking way - that's stretching freedom and democracy  - calling them what they are - Scumbags - is the correct thing to do - whether you agree with the political implication of what  that Scumbags say doesn't mean such Scumbag  behaviour is acceptable

And freedom of speech means you call someone what they are based on their behaviour and disregard for the civil expression of others.

Imn2Paine
Mon, 09/03/07
10:38 pm

===========

thanks - wish there was more of you and less of others

.
Hey, yes I did.  The instrument was like an Oboe, and the mixer thingy [from what mprov said] must produce something ...whacked (in a good way).

255.  No problem, Sitka.  Enjoy.

I tried quiting fast food entirely until my nxt check up and BAM...........185...............it was hard to do, and I missed Manuel, Rosaria and this weird teenage girl with a earring in her nose but I would occasionally get a fruit parfait instead
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

LOL! Mike -- did the same thang with the Atkins diet. . . . July Cholesterol was 176, the lowest it's ever tested in my whole life.

And Sitka, you have my sympathy: me, too.

BTW kiddles, I now weigh less than *any* of you have ever seen me at. Love Atkins. . . .

i went to the central labor council bbq/picnic this afternoon. it was held in the MLK jr shoreline park in oakland. barbara lee, jerry mcnerney, sandre swanson (my 16th ad rep), loni hancock (of the clean money legislation), john garamendi (lt. governor), and a lot of us lesser party hacks joined all the union folk, accompanied by pete escovito's jazz band, for an afternoon of bbq and sunshine along the east bay.

btw, garamendi's likely to be the fav for governor against jerry brown. who knows who else will run? word is arnie's going up against boxer. she began her re-election campaign months ago for 2010.

btw, again, i think many here have gotten it wrong about mcnerney. if you read the time article it paints him as a turncoat. his email/blog post that i referenced here states clearly that:

1. he's steadfast on both beginning and ending time lines.
2. no residual troops.
3. yes, he saw the dog and pony show and admitted such.
4. he must have witnessed the enormity of our situation there and thinks that negotiating the time line with the generals, in order to do it right, is a good thing.

how is this not in line with what we all want???

257.

Fred,

 IMO you should ignore or try something different.  Sometimes space and time can provide a little perspective, new choices, and different paths.

259. good for you, puddles.

hey, paine. actually both of those things are synths. and, yes, they're both whack!!!

puddle

>

Good work, Puddleriver.  Lechaim!

Kinda looks like an oboe, mprov?  ...and some of us thought you was jus' a guitar player.

Fred

http://books.google.com/books?id=hvswQuI59IoC&dq=ruiz+four+agreements&pg=PP1&ots=U_wg5GEk48&sig=D-yn_svt0fENN9H_TsuMw5Li5AM&prev=http://www.google.com/search%3Fsourceid%3Dnavclient%26ie%3DUTF-8%26rls%3DRNWE,RNWE:2005-08,RNWE:en%26q%3Druiz%2Bfour%2Bagreements&sa=X&oi=print&ct=result&cd=1#PPP1,M1

btw, again, again, edwards and richardson campaigns were at the event today. none of the others. edwards seemed to be the fav. he polled well here last time so i'm not surprised.

265. no, actually my 1st instrument was tuba. played it for years. then in jr. high i took up flute and play it to this day. i've also played trombone, baritone, tenor sax, piano, multiple synths, and compose/produce.

the "oboe" is a wind synth. its the 1st that has the synth actually in the instrument. other models are "triggers" meaning that they send midi data to a synth to create the sound. i've been playing this for a long time now, and others before it:

http://www.yamaha.com/yamahavgn/CDA/Cont...

Amazing stuff to a layman, man.  What ever happened to "put your lips together and blow"  ?)

Well, I gather it go easier:

(clip/paste)

If You've Never Played a Wind Instrument Before…