ol' howard be 1st!!!

This will please Mainefem---

See you all in Denver.

Too bad I don't fly.  Denver is a hell of a drive.  We did it once.

Maybe we should have a fund to subsidize some hearty souls. 

The more DFA delegates we have, the better. But in most states, the process is stacked to reward loyalists to the state party. Doesn't mean we shouldn't try, but be smart about it....

HQ, THINK ABOUT HAVING DFA DELEGATES.....

I think Jessica's idea of DFA "delegates" who aren't selected by state/local party officials run for selection here! IT will generate some interest and can be used to provide organizers at the convention itself (inside and outside).

HQ, please give it some consideration...there will likely be another progressives "convention" beside the Dem one as in 2004 at which Howard Dean brought down the house. That would be perfect for DFA to work.

Monica Smith
Fri, 08/24/07
2:11 pm

Hey, Monica, I'm a perfect overnight stop on the way!!

4. why not take the train?

5. here in california, the one who gets out the vote is the one who gets to be a delegate. don't know how you could rig that for the "insiders?"

On topic now ;-)

In addition to encouraging the election of DFA members as official Dem Party delegates to the DNC Convention, I think DFA should send some additional DFA members to the convention as "DFA Delegates", to give those of us who are active grassroots activists (but not long time party insiders) a chance to attend. DFA Delegates could be chosen through an online election.

How could it not be good to have as many DFAers as possible at the convention?

25.
Indy Steve
Fri, 08/24/07
12:07 pm

Actually, you are misinformed. The Green building movement definitely includes using low-vapor products in the standards. Using low-toxic paints, carpets and in building materials are an important green component in building and construction.

Check it out at:

http://www.usgbc.org/DisplayPage.aspx?CategoryID=1

======================

I sincerely regret to inform you that I saw nothing in this link that would convince me of the fact that "green" in this context has little to do with using non-toxic building products which has been dominating the industry.  I saw the word "low vapor" and "healthy" a couple of places, but it looks like conventional standards, conventional building industry, with all its toxic plastics and formaldehyde poisons.

You need to pick up a copy of NATURAL HOME at your local health food store and see what I mean. In my travels,  I have found that Green and "non-toxic for humans" have nothing in common.  In fact, many "energy-saving" and "environmentally correct" ideas and materials increase the toxicity of the indoor environment.

It is analogous to the cosmetics industry where they use the words "natural" and "herbal" to sell some of the most carcinogenic and neurotoxic substances on the planet, mostly petrochemical by-products.

There is much evidence that the endangered and threatened amphibians of the world, is a result of formaldehyde gases, is construction pressboard, plywood, and hundreds of other things.  When formaldehyde dissolve in water from being in the ambient air, it forms a toxic chemical for amphibians respiratory systems.  It is extremely toxic to them and very little in the air can cause this danger.

There are plenty of non-toxic alternative building and decorating materials, but the building industry, the governments, and the petro-chemical industry are all in bed together.  Liberals need to wake up on this issue.

mprov
Fri, 08/24/07
2:16 pm

Curous....how exactly is it determined who got out the most vote? Isn't it determined at the state convention? And the state convention is controlled by party insiders for the most part. If you look at the delegate selection process, it is usually those who are most INSIDE the process.

There are other conditions (% women, minority, etc.) Women and minority DFA'ers would have a much better chance since Democrats are at least concerned about their convention reflecting diversity (unlike the rethugs which is mostly white male!)

FRED from OR
Fri, 08/24/07
2:25 pm

While you raise good points, buildings cannot be built completely FREE of every possible health concern. You would like them and all of us to build and behave to solve your very real and serious health problems, Fred. That would mean noone wearing any scents and no exhaust, etc, etc. But incorporating healthy air and low chemical use in the standard is an improvement even if it doesn't meet your exacting needs.

The LEED Rating System for Existing Buildings addresses:

• whole-building cleaning and maintenance issues including chemical use
• ongoing indoor air quality
• energy efficiency
• water efficiency
• recycling programs and facilities
• exterior maintenance programs, and
• systems upgrades to meet green building energy, water, IAQ, and lighting performance standards

steve, each campaign who gets 15% or more of the primary vote in a congressional district then holds a caucus in that district. each person who wishes to be a delegate is then required to file in support of their candidate, attend the caucus, and bring out voters to vote for them. depending on the district, and based on recent historical voting, up to 6 delegates are provided.

while there is a process which allows would-be delegates to make short speeches, getting your people out is the key to becoming a delegate. you could argue, as some do, that, say, a union guy could get all the union people out, which could be true, but that still isn't a fix.

clear?

Never mind the Lincoln Bedroom.

Madam (Madman) Cheney has turned the White House into a W****house, a place of fantasy and superficial opulence, where all pleasures can be had for a dollar (or many more).

When I Googled whore house mascot yesterday, I found this essay as part of the Gay and Lesbian History of New Orleans (the spouse was watching "Pretty Baby" a few days ago)

By the 1880's or so, New Orleans was positively overrun with whorehouses-you just couldn't move anywhere, it seems, without a brothel or a sporting house or a bunch of crib girls down the street if not next door; with these maisons de rendezvous came all the attendant paraphemaha-loud music, saloons and drunks, fights and arguments and altercations and knifings and shootings and robberies at all hours, sort of the way it is today but with bustles and whalebone corsets and picture hats.

[...]

Some of the houses like Lulu White's Mahogany Hall and Josie Arlington's Chateau Lobrano d'Arlington, Josie is buried in Metairie Cemetery and the statue on her tomb travels around famously, but that's another story, were apparently on the grandest scale with overdone parlors in the Turkish style, thick carpets, huge vases filled with pampas grass, immense crystal chandeliers, overstuffed horsehair sofas, Meissen and Dresden porcelains, etc.

[...]

Among the two thousand women working the joy-jerking tete-a-tete circuit in the District at any one time were such characters, in the old sense of the word, as Countess Willie Piazza, Kidneyfoot Rella, Flamin' Mamie, Bucktown Bessie, Bird Leg Nora, Cold Blooded Carrie, Naked Mouf Mattie, Big Bull Cora, Mary Meathouse, Miss Josephine Icebox, America Williams, Bridget Fury, and Coke Eye Laura, hey, didn't we see all of them in the Decadence drag show?, and Storyville even had its own official court photographer in the shy, crippled dwarf E.J. Bellocq, whose life was gussied up a bit in Louis Malle's movie "Pretty Baby" with Brooke Shields as a child strumpet and the late and luscious Frances Faye, showbiz's most beloved old dyke, as the Madame.

[...]

About Tony, you know he was an effeminate man, you know." Born in 1876 in a little house on Amelia Street uptown, Jackson was a sickly child, an epileptic as a matter of fact, and spent a sheltered childhood fussed over by his mother and four sisters, learning piano by himself at thirteen. Two years later, at fifteen, he was the king of New Orleans sporting house piano players, the man who knew a million songs, accompanied Antonia Gonzales, the female cornetist who played naked for her customers, composed the song "Pretty Baby" supposedly for a boyfriend.

[...]

Think of that, Antonia Gonzales provided entertainment............ 

Sitka
Fri, 08/24/07
2:04 pm
___________________________________________________________________________

Agreed................Gravel and Kucinich are the only candidates talking common sense(granted Gravel is not very articulate)...................

Hey............US Military in Afghanistan!!!!!!!!!!!!  Great shooting guys!!!!!!!!!!  3 Brits killed by your effective tactics............why is it OUR military that only has friendly fire "incidents"?  They killed a bunch of canadians a while back, even Pat Tillman...............................

Ill go back to 2003 where I warned the British............"STAY BEHIND THE AMERICANS"................

New editorial regarding Charlie Grapski....why did the police chief go to Charlie's bank to obtain personal records? Noone had filed a complaint...he took it upon himself to do so.

http://www.highspringsherald.com/articles/2007/08/23/editorial/editorial01.txt

Monica, I must have missed something.  Was Antonia Gonzales related to Gonzo?  How has Madam Cheney turned the BH into a Whouse?  I'm still asleep or maybe just having a really dense day. :-)

Here's a bit more to the story on Charlie Grapski. Has anyone heard whether he has been released from the hospital and/or had reduced bail?

http://www.highspringsherald.com/articles/2007/08/23/news/news01.txt

Hey, folks, there are many in Alachua who are trying to prevent the local paper from printing Charlie's story. Please go to the paper articles (which is the only way Charlie's news is being reported) and leave your support. They are besieged with complaints.

http://www.highspringsherald.com/articles/2007/08/23/editorial/editorial02.txt

mprov
Fri, 08/24/07
2:41 pm

Thanks, much. It would be interesting to see a blog/website which would compile all the different methods which are used all around the country. How does yours assure that the delegates are balanced in terms of gender/ethnicity which is required for the convention?

Indy Steve
Fri, 08/24/07
2:37 pm

Reply to this

==============

I understand.  And I really don' mean to be cynical, but I have been studying this for a long time - long before I got MCS.  In my former life I rebuilt and grand old three-flat tenement/townhouse in Newark, NJ.  It took about 9 years with the grounds and garages etc.

When they talk about not using pressboard, styrofoam, and Tyvek, let me know.  There is a non-formaldehyde pressboard/plywood glue, but only used for high-end cabinets.  Most construction wood is treated with fungicide, etc.

The establish building industry has been heading towards energy-efficiency for a long time.  This is nothing new, but buildings have also been becoming more and more toxic as a result, not by intention but by innovation of materials and economic demands of the woodproducts and other industries.  Energy efficiency is driven by profit and economics for them.  There is little altruistic intention at stake, or at least it can be marketed as a "concern".  Energy efficiency is big business.  How much of the production of these material indirectly produces greenhouse gasses is hard to tell.  Much of the material is petrochemical in origin, so that alone is a contradictory factor. 

Modern building materials are a real problem for me, and other MCS people I network with.  Homelessness is our biggest obstacle to living and/or prospering.  But we also suspect that the great majority of new homes that are toxic to us, are also causing (or contributing to) chronic degenerative diseases of modern times - most notably autoimmune diseases, cancers, alzheimers, parkinsons, and hundreds of other less common insidious mysterious illnesses.

wuft fm trivia question: composer franz von suppes (sp) country of birth is called croatia. what was it called when he was born in 1819?

Steven Hill is director of the Political Reform Program of the New America Foundation and author of "10 Steps to Repair American Democracy"(www.10steps.net).

The Irony of the GOP's Electoral College Power Grab by Steven Hill

California is used to power grabs, as are other states of electoral significance, like Ohio and Florida. Those three large states are big political prizes, so in recent years all have seen partisan attempts at redistricting reform, with the goal of winning more legislative seats for their party.

Now in California comes the latest power grab, an attempt to manipulate the Electoral College vote to help the Republican candidate for president. GOP-connected backers are seeking to pass a ballot proposition that will award one electoral vote for each congressional district won by presidential candidates, instead of giving 100% of electoral votes to the candidate that wins the statewide popular vote. Such an audacious move would effectively divide and conquer the grandest Democratic prize in the presidential sweepstakes, California's 55 electoral votes....full article: http://www.californiaprogressreport.com/...

22. Dalmatia

20. start with CD 1, 1st delegate=woman, 2nd delegate=man, and so on down to CD 53. i think it ends up with one more woman than men.

FRED from OR
Fri, 08/24/07
3:00 pm

I'd be interested in your research on this. The materials, where you can buy them, cost in relation to traditional, health benefits, and downsides, etc.

mprov, Who votes at the caucuses? Any registered Dem voter?

20.

Indy Steve
Fri, 08/24/07
3:00 pm

...It would be interesting to see a blog/website which would compile all the different methods which are used all around the country....

***********************************


That's sort of what the DNC has done here:

http://www.democrats.org/a/convention_20...

Problem is, each state's "plan" is about 30 pages long. Who has time to read 1500 pages of legalese...?

Jessica Falker
Fri, 08/24/07
3:25 pm

Perhaps we could each take our own state and begin the project by posting here and starting a DFA Link. Just a summary of the process in a one or two pager for each state.

Or maybe take several states next to our own as well. We should be able to cover the country with 10-20 bloggers doing this.

jessica , our plan in va is really long and arduous.

I want to be a delegate but it looks like just the "insiders" will be there. The ones that look at  you with disdain when as a new central committee member you show up and ask questions.

We shall see.

linda b
Fri, 08/24/07
3:32 pm

OMG, you actually aks questions, how dare you !! LOL

Why don't you summarize VA process and post here for us? At least as a woman you may have a better "chance". Any ethnicity in your blood???

Lindab and Jessica,

My cynical says that the delegate selection process is a way to keep people "in line". But it doesn't mean we shouldn't try....just be prepared to play inside baseball...

I know here in Va, the Dem process does give a lot of sway to minorities.

But I am in the 3rd district and a birdy told me that the chair and her husband want to go. Is that right? From the same family? Should not be as delegates. I don't see either of them doing much. We never have meetings so what is the reason to have a committee?

The central committee just goes to meeting 4 times a year and listens to the reports.

Altho on Sept 15 after the meeting in Fredricksburg, we are going to Mark Warner's farm for his yearly BBQ. I am invited and can bring guests so if anyone wants to be my guest, let me know. It is fun.

Via DFA link.

29, good idea indy

"Who has time to read 1500 pages of legalese...?"

Who can understand 1500 pages.....?" 

New editorial regarding Charlie Grapski....why did the police chief go to Charlie's bank to obtain personal records? Noone had filed a complaint...he took it upon himself to do so.

I brought this up on day one when someone herewas saying Charlie deserved what's been done to him (I won't drop the name.) 

I wonder why the editarial pulled it's punch in the last few sentences? Still afraid of corrupt power? 

36.

seashell :-)
Fri, 08/24/07
3:44 pm

Who can understand 1500 pages.....?"


*****************************

I started to read VT's plan and now I'm not even sure how we select our delegates. LOL.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/video/2007/08/24/VI2007082400473.html

watch this.

26. any registered dem in that CD.

Problem is, each state's "plan" is about 30 pages long. Who has time to read 1500 pages of legalese...?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I've done it, and had a part in writing Iowa's and I will say most of our effort was how to be as inclusive and fair as possible and make sure minorities of all sorts were protected from discimination.(that 50.1% couldn't ram through a slate a la Rove) And then it was vetted by National Rules to make sure it was "democratic" as well as Democratic.

Since it is the National Convention which nominates the Democratic Party candidate it is only fair that it be open to only registered Democrats 

HEGEMONIC HUBRIS

http://www.counterpunch.org/roberts08242007.html

No pullout from Iraq while I'm president, declares George W. Bush.

On to Iran, declares Vice President Cheney.

Israel is a "peace-seeking state" that needs $30 billion of US taxpayers' money for war, declares State Department official Nicholas Burns.

The Democratic Congress, if not fully behind the Iraqi war, at least no longer is in the way of it.

Nor are the Democrats in the way of the Bush regime's build up for initiating war with Iran.

Except for the armaments industry, where is the gain to America in Bush's wars? Before Bush invaded Afghanistan, the Taliban had stamped out drug production. The US invasion has brought it back.

On August 22 Bush told the Veterans of Foreign Wars that US troops are the "greatest force for human liberation the world has ever known." Tell that to the 650,000 dead Iraqis and the 4 million displaced Iraqis, and the tens of thousands of slaughtered Afghans, and the coming civilian deaths in Iran. Tell that to all the bombed civilians from Serbia to Africa who are blown to pieces in order that a US president can make a point. Bush goes far beyond George Orwell's "Newspeak" in his novel, 1984, when Bush equates US hegemony with liberation.

America's hegemonic hubris is a sickness. A country that tolerates a war criminal while he openly plans to attack yet another country is definitely not a light unto the world.

41.

Phil Specht
Fri, 08/24/07
4:14 pm


Since it is the National Convention which nominates the Democratic Party candidate it is only fair that it be open to only registered Democrats

**********************************

Are you talking about the Primary/Caucus, or the Delegate selection process, or both?

There are states (like VT) that don't have party registration...

I've served with a special state committee to raise money to help pay the way for people that couldn't afford to go to the convention, but the main hurdle for most people is missing work who fit the category. You really do need to start planning a year ahead if you want to be a delegate and realize that it is a competitive position for the most part that is won by people who have become visible working for the candidate they represent. In some cases it is like a "lifetime achievement award" for decades of volunteer effort for all candidates, and very few party "insiders" haven't paid their dues in such efforts as GOTV. In all my decades I have never seen "the fix" be in. What is effective is for a caucus to vote first for who all to support to represent them rather than split their vote. (as in the Progressive caucus of the Edwards representatives) Elesha Gayman used that training to become an effective State Legislator after first being a Dean Delegate to Boston. Is she now an "insider"? If so she earned the title. She may not want to go to Denver though because as a candidate for re-election it would take quite a few days away from door knocking.

Jessica

I'm pretty sure you have to be a member of the Democratic Party to be a delegate to the Democratic National Convention, but not all states require party membership to participate in the voting that determines the percentage of allocation of delegates per candidate.

a DFA convention surely would be open to independents

The Democratic Party delegate selection rules would certainly favor someone active in the Democratic Party, because the selection does get made by elected representatives of some kind. I don't think that any States have primary ballots with delegate races. but there may be one because it would be (d)emocratic

linda b

If you were nearby I'd take you up on your offer as I found Mark Warner a likeable guy when he visited out here. He'll make a great Senator.

visit me and earn money 

don't click 48.

Huron John
Fri, 08/24/07
4:19 pm
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Fortunatley a good many Americand oppose war, the huge military and waste of taxpayers money as well as lives..................................

Phil, Mark is a  great guy. He always has a smile on his face and will stand in line for hours to talk to people.

Last year, my friend Laura, who I replaced on Central Committee invited me to go and it was such fun. I met many new people that have become friends.

At first I was kind of intimidated bul like when I was a flight attendant, they are just people and if they take themselves too seriously, well, that is their problem.

But Jim Webb, Mark, Creigh Deeds, Brian Moran are all wonderful individuals. I don't expect them to remember me but they do.

In fact a young man who we have taken photos of for years and who just graduated from William and Mary is now financial director for Creigh Deeds. It's nice to see these young men grow up and do something worthwhile.

So if you and any of my blog friends who are in the area that day, let me know and I will give you directions.

Jessica,
During the last election at our local Democratic caucus, we had delegates elected to go to the Democratic state convention, of which I was a Dean delegate : ), per ratio of votes for candidates from our community. At the state convention, there were the nominees wishing to go to the national convention like Phil said, they spent much time campaigning for votes to go.

bbl

Mark is a  great guy.

That's also been said of Reagan and Bushboy. Being a great person to hang with is no qualification for public office. Positions and the record to back them up are what matters.

Fortunatley a good many Americand oppose war

Unfortunately, a good many are ambivalent and easily manipulated by those who favor war. 

popping in

Top General to Urge Iraq Troop Cut
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/082407A.shtml
Julian E. Barnes and Peter Spiegel report for the Los Angeles Times, "The chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff is expected to advise President Bush to reduce the US force in Iraq next year by almost half, potentially creating a rift with top White House officials and other military commanders over the course of the war."

popping out!  LOL 

sitka, mark is a great guy and worked really hard with a rethug legislature and cleaned up a lot of the crap that gilmore guy left us with.

so he did something and left office with nearly a 70% approval rating.

mark is a great guy and well liked but he is no pushover.

I have no desire to be within a thousand miles of the Democratic Convention. It's shaping up to be a status quo, DLC, "support the troops" warfest. Those of us who wholeheartedly supported the Democrats in the 06 elections will be invited to support another member of the war party, with no end in sight to the killing in Iraq, and probably by then, Iran, as well as Afghanistan.

WE SHOULD PAY ATTENTION TO JIM ZOGBY

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/james-zogby/waiting-for-petraeus-the_b_61748.html

Right now Washington is gearing up for the appearance before Congress of General David Petraeus and Ambassador Ryan Crocker. They are to testify on September 11th on the progress (or lack thereof) in Iraq since President Bush implemented his "surge" plan to promote political stability and military security in Iraq. The content of their reports can largely be discerned from recent briefings and the national intelligence estimate on Iraq released this week.

It all sounds straightforward, but it is not. There is gamesmanship at work.

The "surge," while having a questionable impact in Iraq has already shaken up politics here at home. No matter how the administration spins the situation in post-"surge" Iraq, it remains bleak. The killing continues as U.S. and Iraqi casualties mount. At one point, the Bush administration sought some advantage, pointing to lower July U.S. casualty totals as evidence of success. But that was immediately countered by the fact that in the past several years, July casualty figures for U.S. troops in Iraq have always been lower -- and this year's July casualty figures were actually higher than those of the past. And while Iraqi deaths are down in areas where there has been an increase in U.S. troop presence, as predicted, the violence moved to other parts of the country.

At the same time, too many Iraqis remain without power, water and basic security. More than four million Iraqis are either refugees or internally displaced, and the internal political dynamic of the country remains as volatile as ever.

A few Democratic members of Congress who had opposed the war and the "surge" appear to have had a change of heart following recent trips to Iraq. Democratic Congressman Brian Baird of Washington noted, "People may be upset. I wish I didn't have to say this. I know it's going to cost hundreds of Americans lives and hundreds of billions of dollars." And he added, "One, I think we're making real progress. Secondly, I think the consequences of pulling back precipitously would be potentially catastrophic for the Iraqi people themselves, to whom we have a responsibility.. and in the long run chaotic for the region as a whole for our own security."

Making the Iraqi Prime Minister the scapegoat may buy the Administration more time by diverting attention away from U.S. policy failures, but this is a risky business and somewhat unfair. Al-Maliki, though clearly a sectarian figure, has no independent power base, and no real armed force under his command. He sits astride a fractious government coalition of fiercely competitive factions, ideologues, and heavily armed militias -- each seeking their own advantage. His recent forays into neighboring Iran and Syria were less of an expression of affinity for these neighbors than they were driven by his need to strengthen his weak domestic position.

In reality, the failures that Petraeus and Crocker will point to belong not with al-Maliki but squarely on the doorstep of 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue and its occupant. It is the failure of the Bush administration to embrace the recommendations of the Iraq Study Group to pursue a comprehensive diplomatic initiative that has contributed to the disfunctionalities at work in Iraq today.

Creating a regional security framework involving all of Iraq's neighbors and ceding political and eventual military control to the United Nations is way forward to national dialogue, and a way out of the current quagmire.

This will not be discussed on September 11. Instead, there will be gamesmanship, with moves countering other moves, buying time for a failed policy in a war that will only continue.

---------------------------------------------

AND THE DEMOCRATS WILL SHARE THE RESPONSIBILITY FOR FAILURE

OUT NOW!

Editorial

...Mr. Jaafari, as it happens, was Iraq’s first democratically chosen leader under the American-sponsored constitution.

Continuing in the Jaafari tradition, Mr. Maliki’s government has fashioned Iraqi security forces into an instrument of Shiite domination and revenge, trying to steer American troops away from Shiite militia strongholds and leaving Sunni Arab civilians unprotected from sectarian terrorism. His government’s deep sectarian urges have also been evident in the continuing failure to enact legislation to fairly share oil revenues and the persistence of rules that bar much of the Sunni middle class from professional employment.

Sectarian fracturing even extends to the electricity grid, where armed groups have seized control of key switching stations and refused to share power with Baghdad and other provinces.

The problem is not Mr. Maliki’s narrow-mindedness or incompetence. He is the logical product of the system the United States created, one that deliberately empowered the long-persecuted Shiite majority and deliberately marginalized the long-dominant Sunni Arab minority. It was all but sure to produce someone very like Mr. Maliki, a sectarian Shiite far more interested in settling scores than in reconciling all Iraqis to share power in a unified and peaceful democracy.

That distinction is enormously significant...

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/24/opinion/24fri1.html?th&emc=th

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rj-eskow/bipartisan-elite-agrees-_b_61687.html

The left-wing blogosphere continues to slam the intellectual dishonesty of media-appointed foreign policy 'experts,' but there are people out there with real experience. A bipartisan group of former government officials has come to some very different conclusions than the pundits: The Surge is failing, the Global War on Terror has gone disastrously wrong, and Hillary Clinton has drawn some badly mistaken conclusions about America's safety.

Here are some of their other conclusions:

92 percent - in other words, virtually all of them - agree that the War in Iraq has adversely affected our national security. That includes 84% of those who describe themselves as "conservative."

Most (83 percent) doubt that Iran's nuclear intentions are peaceful, but less than 1 in 10 believe we should respond militarily. 8 out of 10 believe diplomacy or sanctions are an appropriate response. (How often have you heard that argument lately on television?)

So, how about that Surge? The report says it all:

More than half say the surge is having a negative impact on U.S. national security, up 22 percentage points from just six months ago. This sentiment was shared across party lines, with 64 percent of conservative experts saying the surge is having either a negative impact or no impact at all.

On June 3, Sen. Hillary Clinton said "I believe we are safer than we were." Yet virtually all of these experts say she's wrong, including those who worked for her husband. And her comments this week about those "new tactics" she claims are working were similarly off-base. Sen. Clinton promotes herself as the candidate with the most experience, but experience doesn't bring much value unless a leader also demonstrates good judgment

I'd be interested in your research on this. The materials, where you can buy them, cost in relation to traditional, health benefits, and downsides, etc

 ================

Didn't mean to ignore you but I got busy - just saw the post - we'll talk about it sometime

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rj-eskow/bipartisan-elite-agrees-_b_61687.html

Not that the "Surge" isn't accomplishing anything. As the New York Times reports, more Iraqis have been driven from their homes since the increase began. Per the Times, "... the United Nations migration office calls (it) the worst human displacement in Iraq's modern history." The Iraqi Red Crescent has reported a doubling of internally displaced Iraqis, to 1.1 million, since the February build-up. That's 100,000 new refugees per month.

A question for Sen. Joe Biden and Michael O'Hanlon: Is this what you guys mean by a "soft partition"?

And a question for the media: Why do we continue to see wildly inaccurate and deceptive prognosticators like O'Hanlon on television day after day, while this bipartisan pool of experts goes unseen and unheard?

“This war must end, but it matters profoundly how we end it,” said Sen. Biden. “As we leave, we must do everything we can not to leave behind chaos that undermines American security for a generation. That requires a lasting political settlement.

“Replacing Maliki won’t change that fact. Absent an occupation we cannot sustain or a dictator we cannot want, Iraq will not be governed from the center.

“Some of my other democratic colleagues, including Senators Obama and Dodd and Governor Richardson, seem to be coming around to that reality. Each has spoken in positive terms about my plan to end the war in Iraq by separating the warring factions and helping Iraqis build a decentralized, federal system that gives its major groups control over the fabric of their daily lives, as we did in Bosnia.

“But they say they are reluctant to ‘impose’ a political settlement on the Iraqis. In fact, my plan ‘imposes’ nothing on the Iraqis. Their constitution provides for establishing a decentralized, federal system, with extensive powers for the regions and limited powers for the central government. The Iraqi parliament passed that legislation, which takes effect early next year.

“I call on them to support the Biden-Boxer-Brownback legislation, which would force the Bush Administration to change policy and support the Iraqi Constitution.”

http://blog.thehill.com/2007/08/23/like-bush-some-of-my-democratic-colleagues-cling-to-flawed-premise-sen-joe-biden/

http://blog.joebiden.com/

Biden-Boxer would be an unbeatable ticket

I'm convinced he's a great guy. Like I said -- big deal.  I'm not convinced he's a Real Democrat.

Biden-Boxer would be an unbeatable ticket 

That's what everyone selling their favorite brand of political real estate says.  

Oh God, reading this thread .... we are in such trouble and we all know that the BH is writing the Patreaus report...more monkey business on the Hill.

Ånd CNN is still talking about the MN bridge collapse and that awful Vick sadist.  The war is now off the radar it appears, no matter how many people are killed or even who they are.

And who knows where Keith is.

The muzzle is tightening; fascm is taking hold firmly.

MSNBC is reporting that Guiliani can beat Hillary.  Hello?  Primary voters?  Hello?  Do something good for your country and vote for Kucinich.  Too many insiders voting in IA and NH  IMO.  True progressives would never let Hillary get this far.

I stand by my prediction of a Hillary/Obama ticket. :-( 

And where's Nader?  

Simply put, the reason the media right wingers and BushCo are pushing for a Maliki replacement is so they can have yet another excuse to "stay the course" to give the new guy.on the block a chance to "succeed" -- meaning they want someone who can get a new parliment that will agree to hand over the Iraqi oil.  Is there any doubt about that?

Åt the rate they're going, they won't be fringe much longer.  They're like pit bulls.  Fanatics never give up or relax whereas people who actually have a brain and a life have many interests.  Fanatics have but one goal;  to replace the Constitution with the OT  and that's why they have an advantage over the rest of us.  41 of so percent of us have to fanatically save the Constitution and that's just not happening; not even in Congress.

Fringe Evangelicals Distort US Military Policy
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/082407R.shtml
Writing for Truthout, Thomas D. Williams and JP Briggs II, Ph.D. report: "For decades, especially since the end of the Vietnam War, the US military has been wrestling with aggressive sects of doomsday Christians demanding control and conversions of those of other faiths as well as nonbelievers within the armed forces."

The Xtian fanatics in the military have turned the war into a holy crusade, which will enrage the Muslims even more.  Just who are these fanatics?  I'd like to see a demographic breakdown...How come we get endless polls but no breakdowns?  I'll bet many of them think Saddam and 9/11 are connected.  How could you stay sane and not believe that?

Simply put, the reason the media right wingers and BushCo are pushing for a Maliki replacement is so they can have yet another excuse to "stay the course" to give the new guy.on the block a chance to "succeed"

CNN just reported that he "Dump Maliki" movement in DC is being orchestrated by a lobbying firm which is being paid $300,000 by former PM Allawi . The lobbying firm is run by former Bushitas. So much for honor among thieves.

At this point, the fall of the Iraqi government would increase the demands for withdrawl. Starting all over again with an even shakier Iraqi government which will require more troops to prop up in an election year is not at all what GOP Congressscum want. 

Is there any doubt about that?"

None in my mind.

And where's Nader? 

He's still busy all over the place promoting worthy causes. As for running for president, he's probably "waiting for Goredot" like most of us before announcing what he'll do. 

The fall of the gov't would make it a ripe time for Sadr to step up as the Saddam replacement. 

The fall of the gov't would make it a ripe time for Sadr to step up as the Saddam replacement.

I'm not sure he'd want that yet since Maliki takes orders from him anyway. 

Biden-Boxer would be an unbeatable ticket 

That's what everyone selling their favorite brand of political real estate says.

=============

Snappy comeback but you cannot deny it, and it puts Boxer on the track for first woman President, who would be light years ahead Hillary et baggage.

Snappy comeback but you cannot deny it

Neither can you prove it. Therefor it's just another meaningless rah-rah for a favorite.

56. linda b

I'm convinced he's a great guy. Like I said -- big deal.  I'm not convinced he's a Real Democrat.

whatever, it is irrevelant at any rate. he is a dem in a purple state.

he is a dem in a purple state.

I've never accepted that as an excuse. 

Sitka
Fri, 08/24/07
7:54 pm


Careful there you're dangerously to exposure

... to conjured 'facts' and obscene designations.

10, ... 9, ... 8, ...

bbl

but first this..
Gonzo and company at it again.


http://apnews1.iwon.com/article/20070824...



Aug 24, 5:50 PM (ET)

By DAVID RUNK

(AP) Attorney Geoffrey Fieger makes a statement in his office in Southfield, Mich., in this Nov. 15,...
Full Image



DETROIT (AP) - Attorney Geoffrey Fieger, best known for representing assisted suicide advocate Jack Kevorkian, was indicted on charges of conspiring to make more than $125,000 in illegal contributions to the 2004 presidential campaign of Democrat John Edwards.

The 10-count indictment was returned Tuesday and unsealed Friday. It names both Fieger and Vernon Johnson, a partner in Fieger's law firm.

Fieger, in a statement issued Friday afternoon, denied the charges, blaming President Bush's administration, including a Justice Department led by Attorney General Alberto Gonzales that Fieger says is politically motivated.

...

Steven Fishman, an attorney representing Johnson, said his client hasn't done anything wrong.

"In America, despite what Alberto Gonzales might think, people have the right to support political candidates who support their views," Fishman said. "If that is a crime, citizens should be even more afraid of this administration than they already are."

Gerry Spence, a prominent Wyoming trial attorney representing Fieger, said his client planned to address the charges during a news conference on Tuesday.

...

IMPEACH!!

Snappy comeback but you cannot deny it

Neither can you prove it. Therefor it's just another meaningless rah-rah for a favorite

Careful there you're dangerously to exposure

... to conjured 'facts' and obscene designations.

============================

Gridlock with never-give-an-inch Sitka counts as a win to me.

Very funny Deniac but I never get pissed from simple disagreements: Making references to my person, having nothing to do with issues; or wholesale trashing of fine Democratic servants of our party  with demogoguery and slander (or libel,) are what get me going - and you should not be instigating with your jabs.

Careful there you're dangerously to exposure... to conjured 'facts' and obscene designations.

Attorney Geoffrey Fieger, best known for representing assisted suicide advocate Jack Kevorkian, was indicted on charges of conspiring to make more than $125,000 in illegal contributions to the 2004 presidential campaign of Democrat John Edwards.

I can see Fieger calling Gonzo and Rove to the stand. 

Some are just naturally "anti" no matter what is said or done.

I never get pissed from simple disagreements:

FRED just calls people ignorant:

Fri, 08/24/07
11:34 am

"The political cynicism and ignorant rejection of any sort of bipartisan solution on this blog and elsewhere is restraining this process - - egos get in the way - and these negative "liberals" are inadvertantly putting blood on their hand every day."

=========================================== 

wholesale trashing of fine Democratic servants of our party  with demogoguery and slander (or libel,) are what get me going 

12.Indy Steve

my Bluedog Democratic Rep. was one of 10 Democrats to vote against SCHIP.

He also voted for the FISA Bill which gives Gonzo the power to eavesdrop on US citizens, and he voted to fully fund the Bush escalation. Should I mount another primary challenge against him, run as an independent in the general election or just sit back and watch him vote with the Republicans on most major issues? What do you think?

I think FRED says you're trashing a fine servant of his party.

Some are just naturally "anti" no matter what is said or done. 

I agree. 

Well, well let's just take the Clueless one on head-on then, shall we?


Your boy Biden expects that the Iraqi will just walk away from their homes and neighborhoods just, snap, like that. Right?

No? Will it be American soldiers herding them out?

No? Will it be those crack Iraqi forces Biden wanted trained up, and BTW voted to continue funding the war while the training was 'given a chance to protect themselves'?(how's that going anyhoo)

No? Oh, it'll be that ineffective central government he's takling about doing it. Yeah, those guys who can't get the electricity going, or the trash picked up, or the people fed.

No? Will it be the U.N.? Under this pResident? Hahahahahahaha... this pResident has people who think we should burn down the U.N. headquarters.

No? Perhaps Biden has an army from Mars that he's gonna bring in coz noone else is gonna get anywhere near Iraq ESPECIALLY when the swords are being rattled at the Iranians. And correct me if i'm wrong but Biden voted to let the boyking attack at will the Iranians in response to 'intellegence', well now some twobit CIA guy is saying it's coming in the next six months.

Biden shmiden what a moron warmonger!

Did i leave out anything?

I'm anti-war. Count me into the anti camp.

I had fun tonight rounding up the cows for milking because a flock of Canadian geese kept walking through the cows honking and since they were not afraid of me must have been geese from one of the flooded parks around here. It was quite a circus. and that is how much water we have that geese have moved to higher ground The cows turned playful just like the blog sometimes does with a disrupting influence.

feel free to honk if you are a goose

Just hang in there Phil, we're due for some real quacking, and croc tears.

7, ... 6,... 5, ....

you pretty well covered that waterfront Deaniac

Sitka
Fri, 08/24/07
8:43 pm

Reply to this

I think FRED says you're trashing a fine servant of his party.

==============

B#$%$hit - I never got angry about that post - stop your el creepo instigating

These back to back video feeds, like a couple that Monica have put up tend to lock up the thread at refresh, sometimes effectively ending that thread for me.

Others??


linda b
Fri, 08/24/07
6:36 pm

linda b
Fri, 08/24/07
6:37 pm

Quoting FRED counts as "instigating."

Moooooooooo! 

But is there any calm argument against the points made in response to the sales pitch you gave? (Tho copy and past mostly)

oops, completely copy and paste... bad form BTW

http://www.highspringsherald.com/article...

Comments are open on the Charlie story, i led off.

G'nite all.........................

I never get pissed from simple disagreements:

FRED just calls people ignorant:

Fri, 08/24/07
11:34 am

===================

THIS WAS NOT A PERSONALLY CALLING ANYONE  "IGNORANT" - IT WAS POINTING OUT THE IGNORANCE OF GROUPTHINK - HERE IT IS AGAIN.

13.

Everybody wants to end the civil war, carnage, and soldier deaths, even Bush claims that, but Biden-Gelb and the Biden-Boxer-Brownback legislation to orchestrate the federalization agreement already in the Iraqi Constitution is the only feasible way to have a Bosnian-type outcome.

The political cynicism and ignorant rejection of any sort of bipartisan solution on this blog and elsewhere is restraining this process - egos get in the way - and these negative "liberals" are inadvertantly putting blood on their hand every day - they simply blame Bush, but good people doing nothing is just as responsible for the success of evil.

====================

THERE IS NOTHING ANGRY ABOUT THIS STATEMENT - IT IS SIMPLY HONEST ASSESSMENT OF HOW I PERCEIVE THE HUMAN FAULTS OF POLITICAL GROUPTHINK - HOW IT LEADS TO ETHNIC CLEANSING.   HERE, ON THIS BLOG, GROUP THINK IS IGNORING THE PROBABILITY OF MASSIVE ETHNIC CLEANSING IN IRAQ LOOKING FORWARD - my comment was not directed as anyone personally but I am not surprised some are personally offended - that's good - it proves my point.

Quoting FRED counts as "instigating."

Moooooooooo! 

================

Misrepresenting and twisting the truth is how you instigate, not by simply quoting

deaniac, sorry kiddo.

Nite John...just want to say I enjoy your posts...keep 'em coming.

wholesale trashing of fine Democratic servants of our party  with demogoguery and slander (or libel,) are what get me going 

12.Indy Steve

my Bluedog Democratic Rep. was one of 10 Democrats to vote against SCHIP.

He also voted for the FISA Bill which gives Gonzo the power to eavesdrop on US citizens, and he voted to fully fund the Bush escalation. Should I mount another primary challenge against him, run as an independent in the general election or just sit back and watch him vote with the Republicans on most major issues? What do you think?

I think FRED says you're trashing a fine servant of his party.

Misrepresenting and twisting the truth is how you instigate, not by simply quoting

Now FRED seems to be saying saying that the above mentioned Democrat IS worthy of trashing, or is NOT a fine servant of his party. But doesn't that contradict FRED's initial words? It's hard to know what FRED means.

THIS WAS NOT A PERSONALLY CALLING ANYONE  "IGNORANT"

It just called their opinions "ignorant"? But how can informed people have ignorant opinions? 

- IT WAS POINTING OUT THE IGNORANCE OF GROUPTHINK -

When more than one person disagrees with FRED,  it's "groupthink" -- and remember, it isn't a personal insult.

THERE IS NOTHING ANGRY ABOUT THIS STATEMENT 

I guess it's the shouting in caps that fools everyone into thinking FRED is angry.

Moooooooooooooo!

sink or swim, the water's still there...

 It's hard to know what FRED means

============================

It is only hard for you to know, Sitka, because of your warped interpretation of anything I say

If only it were true. 

Sitka
Fri, 08/24/07
9:49 pm

=============

I never commented on that blue dog -so stop being such  a scumbag by trying to create the impression that I did.

triple sticks. boy's goin' swmmin'!!!

Sitka
Fri, 08/24/07
9:56 pm

===============

You mention FRED six times in response to a post, where I don't mention you or anyone else,  not even once,

 and then twice you link this my statement to the following  

12.Indy Steve

Fri, 08/24/07
11:31 am 

 a post on which I never commented.   In fact, I never even read that post.  You are a very obsessive, contemptuous person, who is determined to assassinate my character.  Get a life, scumbag.

I never commented on that blue dog

"wholesale trashing ofwholesale trashing of wholesale trashing of fine Democratic servants of our party  with demogoguery and slander (or libel,)  

Does FRED consider "that blue dog" to be one of the " fine Democratic servants of our party"?

If not, is it OK to trash him?

And if it is OK, is it FRED who decides which Dems are "fine Democratic servants of our party" and which are not?

yikes!!! this is worse than watching bad mitten!!!

http://eatapyzch.blogspot.com/

...oh, and thinking that boxer would be the lesser side of a ticket with biden is so for beyond speculation....

And if it is OK, is it FRED who decides which Dems are "fine Democratic servants of our party" and which are not?

===============

YOU do Sitka, of course.

3725

 a post on which I never commented.

We just wonder which Democrats FRED approve of trashing, or if even the worst are sacrosanct for having a "D" after their names. 

And if FRED approves of trashing the worst, what makes him think he alone is fit to make that determination?

...well, the point that she's cute helps...lol...

YOU do Sitka, of course.

No. EACH of us does, of course. FRED doesn't seem to respect that though. 

37.

Sitka
Fri, 08/24/07
3:55 pm

Reply to this
New editorial regarding Charlie Grapski....why did the police chief go to Charlie's bank to obtain personal records? Noone had filed a complaint...he took it upon himself to do so.

I brought this up on day one when someone herewas saying Charlie deserved what's been done to him (I won't drop the name.)

I wonder why the editarial pulled it's punch in the last few sentences? Still afraid of corrupt power?

==============

Sitka I was one that questioned Charlie's actions but at the same time I questioned why the Chief had to go back and investigate the check after the fact -- I don't think that was right either.

No. EACH of us does, of course. FRED doesn't seem to respect that though.

=============

Then you are being contemptuous to take an abstract statement twist it to mean something specific that suit the way you want to portray me to other bloggers.  Even Oler had more integrity than that, but he wasn't as funny and popular as you are.

Say what you want Sicta - I'm outa here scummy bagg

Then you are being contemptuous to take an abstract statement twist it to mean something specific that suit the way you want to portray me to other bloggers.

Notice that FRED still doesn't  say whether it's OK to trash (I prefer "criticize") "that blue dog" for voting with Bush and the GOP.

That's because FRED has been put into a conundrum of his own making. If he trashes him for voting with the GOP, he undermines his entire attack, that's been going on for days, of others who criticize such Democrats. If he supports him, he supports Bush and the GOP for all to see.

Long time- no firsties.There's a new thread.

This war must end but it matters profoundly how we end it. As we leave, we must do everything we can not to leave behind chaos that undermines American security for a generation. That requires a lasting political settlement. Unfortunately, like President Bush, some of my Democratic colleagues are clinging to a fatally flawed premise that Iraq can be governed from the center by a strong national government that secures the support of the Iraqi people. President Bush is surging forces to buy more time for the central government to succeed. It cannot. Some of my colleagues, like Sen. Clinton, believe that replacing Iraqi Prime Minister Nuri Al-Maliki and pressuring the central government will force it to get its act together. They, too, are wrong. Maliki is a problem, but this fixation on a strong central government is the problem with our policy. There is no trust within the central government, no trust of the government by the people, no capacity by the Iraqi government to deliver security or services and no prospect it will build that trust and capacity any time soon. Replacing Maliki won’t change that fact. Absent an occupation we cannot sustain or a dictator we cannot want, Iraq will not be governed from the center.

Some of my other democratic colleagues, including Senators Obama and Dodd and Governor Richardson, seem to be coming around to that reality. Each has spoken in positive terms about my plan to end the war in Iraq by separating the warring factions and helping Iraqis build a decentralized, federal system that gives its major groups control over the fabric of their daily lives, as we did in Bosnia. But they say they are reluctant to “impose” a political settlement on the Iraqis. In fact, my plan “imposes” nothing on the Iraqis; rather, it would implement what is already in their constitution and laws. The Iraqi constitution establishes a decentralized, federal system in Iraq, with extensive powers for the regions and limited powers for the central government. The Iraqi parliament passed legislation, which takes effect early next year, to implement those provisions of the constitution. If my opponents would read the constitution and Iraq’s laws, their concern about fully backing my plan would vanish. I call on them to do so, and to support the Biden-Boxer-Brownback legislation, which would force the Bush Administration to change policy and support the Iraqi Constitution.

http://blog.thehill.com/2007/08/23/like-bush-some-of-my-democratic-colleagues-cling-to-flawed-premise-sen-joe-biden/

Has anyone been able to contact Charlie Grapski directly? 

Civil disobedience has a long and honorable history in America.   I for one admire his courage and persistence.  Let's not undermine one of our own who is doing the Florida equivalent of sitting on the embassy steps protesting and getting arrested against  apartheid or marching in the streets of Selma or Cicero.  

Charlie may sometimes be a tad wild, however,  he is definitely correct about the ongoing violations of our basic civil liberties.  I believe he's right that unless we regularly challenge the authoritarian forces arrayed against the Constitution, our rights will vanish.  In fact, many have. Certainly the suspension of habeas corpus by the Bushies and the use of local police to do dirty work is very frightening. 

Recall the treatment of demonstrators during the first crowning of frat-boy? In Germany, that was how the Nazi's came to power. During the Inquisition, the Church did the same thing to protestors. Salem's witch trials weren't much different. And my sunny South was rife for centuries and still is with the use of police to oust those disliked by folks they disagree with politically. Witness the hysteria about immigration throughout Virginia this election year.

 That has been the path to dictatorship through time around the world. If we follow the model of progression of types of government that Charlie has often lectured about,  that is where we are headed if we don't stand up.  

 Patrick Henry was correct when he said that the price of liberty is eternal vigilance.  What was implicit at that time to the activists he was addressing was the concept  that rights not exercised were not rights and that if vigilance demonstrated government malfeasance, then action was necessary.  Isn't Charlie merely testing our access to those rights?  And doesn't that deserve our vigorous support?

If anyone has a working contact for Charlie, please reply and send it to me, thanks.

Greetings to the blog ! Lurking as always,

SarahJ