Karl Rove is first!...at corruption, lying, cheating, revealing the identity of covert operatives.

Deans are first at all things good in politics.

Right.

I do hope that all this nattering about polls is just a break from the task of informing our friends and neighbors about the important issues and who supports them. 

"About 8 million Iraqis — nearly a third of the population — need immediate emergency aid because of the humanitarian crisis caused by the war, relief agencies said Monday.

Those Iraqis are in urgent need of water, sanitation, food and shelter, said the report by Oxfam and the NGO Coordination Committee network in Iraq."

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1431

Pictures included of the masses waiting for life's necessities at the point of a gun.

Also HD NET is putting Dan Rather's show online about the voting irregularites.  Clips are avalable now at the website.   Here is a link.

http://www.hd.net/danrather

Indy wrote "The blog has become a place dominated by bickering and cynical people, unfortunately, who have driven a  lot of good people away. How sad...."

It is sad.  I wish they could get a sense of humor and come back.  And I am not a bickering person.

and with each passing day, Clinton's Inevitable Train chugs along closer to it's dem nomination depot destination

All aboard ?

rdorgan wrote "and with each passing day, Clinton's Inevitable Train chugs along closer to it's dem nomination depot destination."

To be honest, sitting here today, I don't think she's going to be nominated, but she undoubtedly has a good shot. 

Watch out. Karl Rove is on the loose. Our Democracy is under siege!

The BRAIN has left the (white) House! He is looking to steal another election. Let's not take it sitting down this time.

Become active in a campaign or an issue in your community. That is the only antidote to Rove on the loose!

6.

I hope you're right.

If she's nominated, well as a dem, she'll have my vote.

But IMO we'll be back to the 80s/90s, with the 2 family Bush/Clinton legacy cycle all over again, taking turns.

Will Jeb then run in 2012, to keep the family feud going on for the benefit of all other American families ?

92.

the still open poll seem to show later movement towards Kucinich too and I mentioned as such of his 6 % rise since the MSNBC poll opened last week (in fact today, Kucinich has surpassed with 19%, Clinton's 18%)

But IMO we'll be back to the 80s/90s, with the 2 family Bush/Clinton legacy cycle all over again, taking turns.

That's perilously close to trashing. But then, some say it's OK so long as you're trying to help a favorite candidate. 

94.

Tom Bearse
Mon, 08/13/07
1:00 pm


former wrote "there some people who consciously distinguish their personal belief from the LAW."

And then there's Ron Paul.

-------
See, you are a quick-witted, got it right!

1980 - vp Bush

1988 - p Bush

1992 - p Clinton

2000- p Bush (the lesser)

2008 - ?

the still open poll seem to show later movement towards Kucinich too

It's as meaningless as Romney's straw poll. 

We got it upthread.

Stuarts versus the Tudors

Chart of where the candidates stand...

http://flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=868063604&size=o

Indy wrote "It is amazing to me that bloggers who disapproved and complained (legitimately) about the other Dems bringing down Dean in 04 through personal attacks and innuendo practice the same kind of political mudslinging today."

Your complaint seems so baseless, I may resort from now on to calling you IndySteveNaive. What are these personal attacks? That someone has a big house? That they voted to authorize troops into Iraq? These are examples of conduct, public and private, that suggest to a critical voter that someone may be disingenuous, calculating, politically deaf, or lacking in sound judgment. Any one of these characteristics could convince the voter that this person may be wrong for the job of President, but if you support a candidate, you tend to dismiss, overlook, or explain away the possible significance of such conduct. A political dialogue emerges. You should take more care to recognize it.

Your concern seems to be that this blog is exclusively an issues forum. This comes from the myopic assumption that issues alone dictate the feelings of voters about candidates. The reason that the discussion ranges widely is because of all the influential factors that affect voters’ views and temperament is one, as you yourself said when you explained your preference of Dean over Kucinich, notwithstanding the two candidates’ positions on the issues.

http://flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=868063604&size=o

the straw poll info i posted was meant to be purely informational. i have not selected a candidate yet, even though i admit leaning edwards. the important thing about this straw poll is that it was taken at an activist's convention. it mirrors what my activist friends and associates tell me: edwards, right now, has the largest support among california activists. nothing more.

http://www.cdc-ca.org/

Your concern seems to be that this blog is exclusively an issues forum.

His concern is that not pretty facts are being aired about the candidate he's pushing. 

it mirrors what my activist friends and associates tell me: edwards, right now, has the largest support among california activists. nothing more.

I doubt if Edwards spent $1000/vote as Romney did in IA. 

Mark wrote "i have not selected a candidate yet, even though i admit leaning edwards."

Edwards is too naive in foreign policy matters. He would unilaterally march right into Pakistan and wipe out Taliban and Al Qaeda targets without even consulting Masharraf.

A straw poll is an informal type of voting where the results of the poll have little or no direct results, other than to gauge opinion. Straw polls are commonly used in American political caucuses, where the primary goals are to select delegates and vote on resolutions. The results of the straw polls may or may not influence the delegates as they participate in political conventions after the caucus.

Straw polls are also used to pre-select the future U.N. Secretary General before a formal vote takes place.

This idiom alludes to a straw used to show in what direction the wind blows, in this case the wind of public opinion.

Well-known straw polls include the Ames Straw Poll.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_poll

mprov -

Thanks for the response defining what is a straw vote.

tom, the situation in pakistan has been changing, hopefully for the better. i've been posting articles about negotiations going on to bring bhuto back as prime minister. i was talking to 2 men the other night, who are indians who grew up in pakistan and had to leave after the separation (hindi.) they agreed that if bhuto regains power the al quada/taliban situation, and pakistani-indian relations, will probably improve...

as far as edwards goes, i don't think he's quite as gung-ho as you would paint him. every candidate that tries to look tough for the media, imo, pretty much looks foolish in the end.

kein problema, rd.

http://www.usnews.com/blogs/erbe/2007/08/13/romney-faces-a-credibility-gap.html

Watching Iowa straw poll winner and would-be Republican presidential nominee Mitt Romney squirm on Fox News Sunday was a bit discomfiting as the former Massachusetts governor tried to explain away his now infamous 180-degree flip-flop on abortion rights to host Chris Wallace.

He essentially said (to paraphrase former Democratic presidential nominee Sen. John Kerry), "I was never really for it, but I pretended to be for it before I was against it" (meaning a woman's right to choose). Check out the transcript of the show, and decide for yourself.

But dig a bit deeper, and there's an even more serious indictment of Romney's credibility floating out there in cyberspace. The Salt Lake Tribune has evidence that Romney has produced a 

...

gaffe by taking claim for the success for turning around the Salt Lake City 2002 Winter Olympics.

...

But the turnaround credit for the Salt Lake games may in fact be due to those who laid the groundwork for financial success well before Romney stepped in as chief executive of the Salt Lake Organizing Committee. Romney made a calculated gamble to redeem himself in politics (after losing a Massachusetts Senate race to incumbent Ted Kennedy) by turning around the Salt Lake games, whose organizing committee had embarrassed itself by lavishing gifts on international Olympics executives to get the games.

Romney has since staked his presidential bid on "leadership" abilities proven in that turnaround effort.

But the Tribune reports that the former publisher of that paper, John W. "Jack" Gallivan, says Romney had little to do with erasing a $379 million operating deficit, or organizing the 23,000 volunteers for the event, or galvanizing the supposedly dispirited community, which Romney now claims credit for doing in fundraising letters. The paper reports in an op-ed piece: "Gallivan was a pioneer of Salt Lake City's Olympics efforts, traveling to Rome with other business leaders bearing the state's first bid in 1966. He watched Utah's Olympics aspirations grow over the years and his son, Mickey, volunteered to do communications work for the bid that ultimately landed the Winter Games for Utah.

Mickey Gallivan says the television contracts, which formed the revenue base, had already been negotiated before Romney took over. The volunteers would have been there no matter what (remember the floods of '83?), and morale in the city was never low.

Now, if that story gains legs, Romney could be in big-time trouble. If his conservative, religious, Republican base begins to view him as a shyster, it's not as if he could do yet another 180-degree turn and try to re-engage progressive, pro-abortion-rights voters.

That someone has a big house? ...  lacking in sound judgment.

that is a broad damning indictment of the American home builder that markets are proving right now

lots of company

too funny! this is the top story at google news:

Dan Balz's Take
Enough Already With the Straw Poll

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/the-trail...

(one of those headlines where you don't have to read the article!!!)

Mark wrote "as far as edwards goes, i don't think he's quite as gung-ho as you would paint him."

I won't paint him.  I'll quote him:

"[W]e had Osama bin Laden cornered at Tora Bora. We had the 10th Mountain Division up in Uzbekistan available. We had the finest military in the world on the ground. And what did we do?

"We turned -- this is the man who masterminded the greatest mass murder and terrorist attack in American history. And what did the administration decide to do?

"They gave the responsibility of capturing and/or killing Saddam -- I mean Osama bin Laden to Afghan warlords who, just a few weeks before, had been working with Osama bin Laden.

" . . . .

"Someone did get it wrong. But it wasn't John Kerry and John Edwards. They got it wrong. When we had Osama bin Laden cornered, they left the job to the Afghan warlords. They then diverted their attention from the very people who attacked us, who were at the center of the war on terror, and so Osama bin Laden is still at large."   (Oct, 5, 2004)

"My belief is that we have a responsibility to find bin Laden and al Qaeda wherever they operate. I think we need to maximize pressure on Musharraf and the Pakistani government. If they can't do the job, then we have to do it."  (Aug. 1, 2007)

tom, i'm familiar with those quotes and don't see how it changes what i expressed above.

India, Pakistan, independent 60 years
By MATTHEW ROSENBERG and MATTHEW PENNINGTON
Associated Press Writers

Sixty years ago this week, India and Pakistan won their independence - and saw it quickly overshadowed by one of the most violent upheavals of the 20th century as the departing British split the subcontinent.

Some 10 million people moved across borders in one of history's largest mass migrations as the princely states sewn together in 200 years of British rule were split into Muslim Pakistan and Hindu-majority India. Neighbor attacked neighbor and mobs set upon trains and lines of fleeing marchers in the sectarian riots and fighting surrounding partition.

http://www.kansascity.com/451/story/2298...

Phil wrote "someone has a big house? . . .  lots of company"

Actually, this sounds like fairly exclusive company to me:

"'The Edwardses’ residential property will likely have the highest tax value in the county,' Orange County Tax Assessor John Smith told Carolina Journal. He estimated that the tax value will exceed $6 million when the facility is completed.

" . . . .

"Knight approved the building plans that showed the Edwards home totaling 28,200 square feet of connected space. The main house is 10,400 square feet and has two garages. The recreation building, a red, barn-like building containing 15,600 square feet, is connected to the house by a closed-in and roofed structure of varying widths and elevations that totals 2,200 square feet.

" . . . .

"The recreation building contains a basketball court, a squash court, two stages, a bedroom, kitchen, bathrooms, swimming pool, a four-story tower, and a room designated 'John’s Lounge.'"

Mark wrote "i'm familiar with those quotes and don't see how it changes what i expressed above."

Okay. 

Saving Pakistan

"On 29-30 July, a deal was reportedly struck in Abu Dhabi after a secret face-to-face meeting between Pervez Musharraf and Benazir Bhutto: he would stay on as President for five years, she would be PM and Head of Government, have prosecutions against her dropped and get back her enormous frozen wealth. Such would be the intended outcome of the long-touted return to fair competitive elections later this year. The deal was brokered by British, American, Saudi and other go-betweens outside Pakistan, and is an overt way of keeping Musharraf in power while also seeming to allow a large concession by way of the return of a purported symbol of democracy like Benazir."

http://www.thestatesman.net/page.news.ph...


btw: bhutto, not bhuto.

I remember an article in the 2004 campaign highlighting each of the candidate's primary residence.

Only Dean and Kucinich had what one could call a middle average American's home (Colonial type, less than 2500 sq ft, still a mortgage on it).

A man or woman's house (err castle for some) tells a lot about the occupant.

The main house is 10,400 square feet

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

my tax assessor sticks it to me too when I put up a building

How does that 10,400 compare to the Clinton's or Joe Bidens new house? (not that it matters)

The main thing I look for from someone who has climbed the ladder is they put a hand back to those still climbing.

Sen. Patrick Leahy comments on resignation Karl Rove
11:17 a.m.
August 13, 2007

“Earlier this month, Karl Rove failed to comply with the Judiciary Committee's subpoena to testify about the mass firings of United States Attorneys. Despite evidence that he played a central role in these firings, just as he did in the Libby case involving the outing of an undercover CIA agent and improper political briefings at over 20 government agencies, Mr. Rove acted as if he was above the law. That is wrong. Now that he is leaving the White House while under subpoena, I continue to ask what Mr. Rove and others at the White House are so desperate to hide. Mr. Rove’s apparent attempts to manipulate elections and push out prosecutors citing bogus claims of voter fraud shows corruption of federal law enforcement for partisan political purposes, and the Senate Judiciary Committee will continue its investigation into this serious issue.

“The list of senior White House and Justice Department officials who have resigned during the course of these congressional investigations continues to grow, and today, Mr. Rove added his name to that list. There is a cloud over this White House, and a gathering storm. A similar cloud envelopes Mr. Rove, even as he leaves the White House.”

http://www.timesargus.com/apps/pbcs.dll/...

Houses and haircuts. So glad many of you are discussing the important issues! That's the problem, many here have bought into the media spin and are driven by the propaganda that is intended to derail any candidate that takes on special interests.

Obama and Edwards both challenged the others to stop funding their campaigns through lobbyists and PAC special interests. Clinton defended lobbyists and the others haven't taken up the challenge - yet. It was interesting that even Kucinich hasn't agreed. He should have been the one leading the charge. Edwards leads on many of these issues, and the others follow. He is targeted now by powerful special interests. Obama is next.

Phil wrote "The main house is 10,400 square feet"

Never mind then.  What a cheap piece of junk. 

But before I completely surrender my cycicism, do you sense in any way that the 10,000 square foot mansions or whatever, of Senators Clinton and Biden, probably don't stand for anything except their success in the public sector, and that whatever their feelings about income stratification in the U.S., their anti-poverty crusades have not really gotten off the ground because they're not so instrumental in their election strategy?  That in fact, they may yet hope to expand opportunity in this country by some less demonstrative and, perhaps, more substantive way?  I mean, they might possibly have been able to get hedge fund consultant jobs, but decided they didn't need them to learn more about poverty.

Tom

I'm a little familiar with your neighborhood. The homes of the men that returned from The War and built America's cars while walking to work, are tiny compared to the houses over by the lake.

people of means in America have gone pretty far in the size of their houses and not just in North Carolina

Americans have tended to think of their home as being a good place to invest their wealth, and up until Bush came along they were mostly right.

Tom and Indy Steve

Thanks for the responses on previous thread.

I view every opinion and view on here as important, though I certainly wish the debates would expand to other candidates besides those the media has proclaimed "doable."

~~~~~~~~~~~

As for Rove, Sheri has it right on target. 

GWB will ultimately face the music all by himself in the courts. Can't wait. Others will follow but by themselves as well. You simply can't hide from the truth then.

Great post Martha.

And then there is the current Victory or  Defeat.

The President and Vice President led our nation into an unwise war, under false pretenses, without adequate planning, and have mismanaged the situation that continues today.  The President and Attorney General have time and time again thumbed their noses at the Constitution and the rule of law - on everything from warrantless wiretapping to undermining Congress' role to conduct adequate oversight.

If Congress stands by and does nothing to hold this administration responsible, we open the door for this President, and future presidents, to continue to undermine the very foundation of our government whenever they see fit.  The President, Vice President and Attorney General must be held accountable.

Become A Citizen Co-Sponsor of Censure

The President has taken our country down the wrong path for far too long and it is up to each and every one of us to get America moving back in the right direction.  As I mentioned above, thousands of you have joined our effort and signed on as Citizen Co-Sponsors of Censure.  By showing your support today, Congressman Hinchey - the lead sponsor of both censure resolutions in the House - and I can show our colleagues in Congress that the American people demand accountability.

Sincerely,

Russ Feingold
United States Senator
Honorary Chair, Progressive Patriots Fund

46.

Joan* In*Florida -

Just curious, since it appears that you are leaning Dodd, does that mean you're not leaning Obama anymore ? 

(or did I misunderstand some of your earlier comments ?)

There is no perfect candidate.  That said, I remain hopeful that Gore will enter and if he doesn't, I'm looking seriously at Dodd and Kucinich.  My problem is that I'll not have a say in who's the nominee and that pisses me off. 

There is no level playing field in Iowa.  Clinton goes in with name recognition and as a woman.  She also goes in with Murdock and other assorted despots behind her paving the way with money.  She has the machine and the CMWs behind her.  Level playing field?  Hardly! 

IMO, Rove's leaving to save his ass  face.  I think he's capable of being just as Draconian in TX  and will continue to be putz's brain.

I still think the fix is in for Hellary/Obomba and if this occurs, we can be sure that voters do not choose the nominees, which I don't think they do, and haven't for years.   That might change if more progressive states go first or we have one day during which we ALL get a chance to vote. 

Why is it we almost always have to choose between the lesser of two evils? My 2 cents.

I want to vote in the primaries!!!! 

Gore sounds like he's coming in...especially if it looks like Hellary will win the nomination and lose the general.   Rove is counting on  that.

Gore Supporters Form California Draft Gore Committee

Organizers Plan to Qualify Al Gore for California Presidential Primary Ballot

SACRAMENTO, CA--(Marketwire - August 10, 2007) - Organizers of a new statewide campaign to put Al Gore's name on the California presidential primary ballot announced today the formation of California Draft Gore, a grassroots political action committee made up of hundreds of Gore volunteers who live throughout the state of California.

The California Election Code requires that in order for a candidate's name to be placed on the presidential primary ballot, a minimum of 500 signatures of registered Democrats must be obtained from each of the state's fifty-three congressional districts. California Draft Gore has been created to take on this ambitious project. In order to succeed, California Draft Gore has begun putting in place a field organization of district volunteer leaders and regional and sub-regional coordinators. Each of the district leaders in turn is recruiting and training as many volunteers as possible to begin collecting signatures on October 8. The signature gathering must be completed by December 4, 2007.

http://www.marketwire.com/mw/release.do?...

Putz did not invade Iraq. The buck does not stop with putz.  It stops with Cheney so I won't sign the censure bill.

We need to impeach Cheney.  And then and only then, will putz's strings be snipped.  Putz has never been the problem, only the mouthpiece, and I'm surprised at Sheri's post.

It's Cheney all the way.  IMPEACH NOW. 

Clinton goes in with name recognition and as a woman. She also goes in with Murdock and other assorted despots behind her paving the way with money. She has the machine and the CMWs behind her
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
all of that would be true in a large media dominated state with no town hall style interaction to balance it, and it would be especially true if there was a national primary

My last post helps explain why I liked Howard Dean for president so much.  He and his wife, a pair of physicians, had this house that was pretty nondescript.  I saw pictures of it and it was not exciting.  The governor would mow his own lawn.

I felt to my soul that Dean was concerned about poverty in the U.S., and wanted to work to help ameliorate the problem it represented if he got elected, even though he didn't have some crusade with a slogan worked into his platform, even though he didn't make announcements at disaster sites, even though he had once been a stock broker, not to learn about poverty, but because his dad was and he found it didn't have any appeal for him.   This was some guy raised on the upper east side who developed such sensitivity to race and income problems in our society, and who ended up a doctor in his ordinary looking split level.

Like I said, Edwards is not a bad guy.  He'll be a competent president, I'm almost sure of it.  He just does the wrong things.  He doesn't have the instinct for it.  Dean does the right things which, as we know, made me a Dean and not an Edwards supporter.

http://www.dailyyonder.com/

53. that's fair.

phil....

August 13, 2007, 1:43 pm
Clinton’s First TV Ad

By Michael Falcone

Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton’s campaign will begin broadcasting its first television ad in Iowa tomorrow. The one-minute spot titled “Invisible” features Mrs. Clinton walking through farmland, talking with voters as well as several image-softening shots of her cuddling with babies and gently putting her arm on the shoulder of an older woman.

“Americans from all walks of life across our country may be invisible to this President,” she says in the ad, which includes clips of one of her stump speeches. “But they’re not invisible to me and they won’t be invisible to the next President of the United States.”

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/...

Consolidation and loss of rural population have been direct consequences of the past several farm bills. By increasing subsidies, Congress made it profitable for the most aggressive operators to accumulate more land and scoop up a large share of the farm bill's allotments.

While the stated purpose of farm bills has always been to maintain the family farm, in reality the Congress has brought about the family farm's decline.

The House might have fashioned a 2007 New Deal for Rural America. It would have started with real subsidy limits, making mega-farms less profitable.

http://www.dailyyonder.com/  

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

my bad, there is where the link goes

the commercial is available at the link...

53.

I lke that about Dean too (mows his own lawn).

Unlike (undocumented Honduran-paid landscapers) Romney, I like to mow my own lawn.

It's one of the few times I get any kind of walking exercise.

typo - lke

s/b - like

(I like Ike?)

Joan*In*Florida 46:

Thank you.  I incorporated Victory or Defeat in my post because it is the same binary framing emotional rhetoric propaganda, similar to winners and losers, but with more emphasis.

Governor Richardson will be in Oelwein on Wedenesday, August 15th at Luigi's.  The event starts at 6:45 pm and the address is 1020 S. Frederick Ave.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I'll give this event a live blogging try, I don't think it will work out with Hillary.

Luigi's is where we held our District Central Committee mtg for years, and it always feels good to give an old friend some business.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

or here

 Iowa Federation of Labor, AFL-CIO Convention Presidential Forum
Five Sullivan Brothers Convention Center
205 W. 4th Street
Waterloo, Iowa

Aug.15,2007

~~~~~~~~~~~~~

why all of the candidates are nearby 

This week will be the most important week of the campaign so far in Iowa.

it culminates in the ABC debate, Sunday morning

all of the candidates are in the state

Shuffling Off to Crawford, 2007 Edition
    By Frank Rich
    The New York Times

    Sunday 12 August 2007

~~~~~~~~~~

thanks for that post too Martha

bbl

Once Rove is out of the White House, he will no longer be covered by EXECUTIVE PRIVILEDGE, so the Judiciary Committee will need to supboena him again.  How can he refuse and thumb his nose at them when he is no longer a member of the executive branch.   I think Rove should be questioned to the Nth degree, maybe some water boarding would be beneficial, what do you think?

87.

FRED from OR
Mon, 08/13/07
12:56 pm

Fred, I don't agree with either Sitka's OR your approach. You just added another personal attack with your comment. Let's discuss ideas and the campaigns respectfully

======================

Respect your desire to be neutral but the fact of the matter is Sitka recklessly hurls one-liner criticism about people, and makes totally false insinuations about B-G, with never a factual link or documentation  basis for his claims.

Then when Sitka asks a blogger to elaborate on statement that Sitka doesn't like , there is never an answer comprehensive enough to please Sitka, who goes on to provoke  with comments like "as usual, you have not answered the question...."

Bullshit.  That's why i get pissed.

53. Well said, Tom.

62. Phil Specht Mon, 08/13/07 3:38 pm Why do you need permission to blog. It's a free country, Phil. And why does Clinton's campaign have a problem with it? Ask the Edwards folks....i'm sure they wouldn't have a problem. See if you can climb on that bus!!

With Clinton, it is all about controlling the message. No open source there.....with the others, they welcome open source blogging from all types.

"as usual, you have not answered the question...."

It isn't reputable to put quotation marks around words that weren't  said. 

With Clinton, it is all about controlling the message.

That's what all of them are about  -- or wish to be.

And why does Clinton's campaign have a problem with it? Ask the Edwards folks....i'm sure they wouldn't have a problem. See if you can climb on that bus!! 

Is this just a negative opinion of Clinton and Phil, or is it "trashing"? 

Phil, get on the bus, forget about us, and put the blame on me.

seashel :-) 51:  It doesn't matter that Bush isn't the problem, Bush is in the position and neither Cheney nor any other member of the Bush administration would or could have done all the harm they have done without the use of the Presidential position held by Bush.  Impeaching only Cheney will not change the precedence for future presidents of the United States, impeaching Bush will.  President Bush and his whole administration MUST be IMPEACHED.  IMPEACHMENT is the only way to set the record straight.  The fact that Bush is an idiot, is of no consequence in the whole scheme of things.  Bush is like the child emperor.  If you knock out the underlings, the regime goes on.  This autocratic regime must be stopped and impeachment is the process with which to stop an autocratic regime. 

I don't think they can get to putz w/o first impeaching Cheney.  I'm all for imp. both of them at once if possible.

I don't think anyone's trashing Phil, but Phil,  your impartiality is a bit disconcerting, since we really don't think Clinton is a good choice. Clinton is afraid, IMO, of getting embarrassing questions from us. 

If I could ask her, here are my questions:

Why did you not object to removing the clause that gave putz the ability to wage war w/o congressional approval?

What do you intend to do about AIPAC's power in our disastrous foreign policy?

She wouldn't like these kinds of questions. 

bbl 

IndySteve

I was trying to get the staff to set up for Senator Clinton to blog lwhile I was in the meeting with her, I hope she has better things to do than do advance work herself. It might be a time issue.. I'm sure I am free to do as I please.

I'm not sure Edwards will with my laptop either, or Richardson for that matter, just because Dodd did.

it did get someone reading the blog because they asked about my fishing

and I took that to mean they took it seriously

43.

I would say that because the right to privacy is so elusive, Americans have sought to increase their "castles" where they feel resonably secure from intrusion.  To some extent, the size of their mobile castles (transport vehicles) is also determined by a desire to have more private space.  If Edwards is planning a facility to accommodate the retinue that comes with the presidency, then you could argue that he's saving the taxpayers money.

How much are we paying to keep the Secret Service comfortable in Crawford? 

end of article:

BLUE DOG MUSCLE
The Blue Dog Democrats -- those moderate to conservative House members who have been making Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi's life a bit more difficult than expected -- are on a roll. Recent FEC filings indicate that the group's leadership PAC has raised almost a million dollars in the first six months of 2007, more than the group raised in the previous 16 months combined. Almost all of the funds -- about $830,000 -- came from lobbying groups and corporate PACs, a sign that corporations and others have identified the Blue Dogs as a critical voting block in the House.

Credit for the increased influence of the group goes to Tennessee Democrat Rep. John Tanner, who chairs the organization, and has mobilized his group -- with its increased membership from the last election cycle -- all over town. "There isn't a major event where you don't see Blue Dog members there," says a lobbyist for a U.S. automotive manufacturer. "They come to our policy meetings, they come to our conferences, they care about our issues because many of them have constituents who are our employees or prospective employees. They are much more visible than they were a year ago."

And more important to the process. For any given important vote, Tanner can bring the majority totals up by 25 to 35 votes, something Pelosi often needs for the tough votes, particularly on appropriations.

http://www.spectator.org/util/print.asp?...

It's disgusting how the Democratic agenda is enthralled to a handful of DINOs. It must make a lot people wonder why they should even bother to vote Democratic.

How much are we paying to keep the Secret Service comfortable in Crawford?

Just passing through on the way to PillowLand, but here's a comment that's actually on the thread topic (gasp).

================
Hey Karl! Would A More Honest Reason For Leaving Kill You?
Kathleen Reardon
Mon Aug 13, 12:01 PM ET

Aren't you nearly nauseous about this "spending more time with my family" reason for leaving public office? Were these guys oblivious to their families before? Isn't theirs the family values party? Karl Rove's son is at college. At that age they usually want you to keep a distance. Yet, according to Rove he'd stay at the White House but "I've got to leave for the sake of my family."

It's insulting, really. And unfair to people who really do need to leave a job they love to "be there" for their families. It's gratuitous.

Then there's the implication that he might have stayed but Chief of Staff Joshua Bolten advised senior aides that after Labor Day they'd be obliged to remain until George Bush leaves office. That's iron clad like the rule about wearing white after Labor Day. Where did that come from? For years I wondered what awful thing would happen if that rule were broken. Stuck in social hell no doubt, ignored by all who'd taken note of such an important style date. Apparently after Labor Day you're in or you're out at The White House no matter how much of a big shot you are.

You get the impression that Karl Rove, long-term friend and confidant of the president, the "architect" of his acquisition of the White House was mulling about in a room with a lot of aides, expecting to continue in his job, when Bolten unexpectedly walked in and lowered the boom. Karl Rove, shocked and dismayed, nervously paced about as "My God! Do I leave or don't I?" tumbled mercilessly about in his traumatized brain. "Was this an indirect message from the president cutting me loose?" He must have broken out in a cold sweat. His time had come without even a discussion with the Commander-in-Chief. Sure, that all happened!

The fictions never end. They have to think we're stupid. That's the only explanation. I'm with Doris Kearns Goodwin. Let's look long and hard at the history of current presidential candidates and find ourselves an honest one - someone who gives us some credit for intelligence.

I hope Lewis Black does a Daily Show segment on Rove's traumatic, supposedly blind-sided departure. It'd be hysterically disparaging. Exactly what Rove and this duplicitous White House deserve.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/huffpost/2007081...

a fine line (distinguishing oneself from one's opponent without decending to their level) -- Obama IMO still hasn't got this line nailed down yet:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070813/ap_on_el_pr/obama_politics_2

Obama tries small-group politics

By PHILIP ELLIOTT, Associated Press Writer
1 hour, 12 minutes ago
 

HANOVER, N.H. - Presidential hopeful Barack Obama opted for a small, intimate campaign event Monday — and was warned by a friendly voter to avoid public spats with his Democratic rivals.

...

The Illinois senator sounded a familiar theme, that he is an outsider to Washington and to politics as usual.

But Maggie North of Claremont told him he risks becoming part of the usual political scene if he keeps being drawn into well-publicized disputes with rivals. He and chief rival Hillary Rodham Clinton have jabbed at each other over foreign policy, the war on terrorism and the use of nuclear weapons.

"You can be it," she said. "But you've got to stop — excuse me for being blunt — you've got to stop getting involved in the way people are fighting each other, chewing you up a little more."

"That's what you do when you run for president," Obama responded, getting a laugh.

North, who is considering an Obama endorsement and backed Howard Dean in 2004, praised Obama as someone fresh, but she said she worried that he was hurting himself.

Obama said infighting among the candidates is part of the process.

"Some of that's OK, it thickens your skin. ... Putting you through the paces like that is part of the hazing that's required for the job," he said.

North wasn't persuaded.

"What happens when you engage in that is you become like everybody else," she said.

Obama repeated his criticism of lobbyists, calling them the enemy and saying their donations are corrupt.

...

... well, he is a liar - exactly like GWB.

The ads are already outlined, the clips prepared, of Obama lying on at least two occasions to the good people of the United States.

... thus the flip-flopper vs the liar. What a hoot this will be!

rdorgan,

You never have explained the nuianse of how he gets around that, have you?

53.

Well said.
For me it was the conclusion of his announcement speech, that after all the travels, meetings and issues it really boiled down to

"it's about something as important as... our children."

That's where they all need to be. Unfortunately for some it's about their political career, about their connections,about their ego and about power.

85.

Nope I haven't, because frankly I don't myself how to do both (engage and, yet, not engage).

Non-engagers (ie. Kerry after being swift-boated) tend to be shown the door.

Engagers tend to be seen as too strident, and shown the door.

Like, I said, it's a fine line.

And that will be the extent of my engage today.

bye

What an excellent point by Maggie North.  Attacking one's opponent in an election demonstrates a failure to understand that it's the voters that count, not the candidates.  The spectacle of candidates fighting is not a pleasing one.  It's sort of like spouses who fight in public.  Their friends just want them to go away.

If candidates have weak points, it's up to the voters to point them out.  Maggie North was doing Obama a big favor, but he probably didn't appreciate it. 

Non-engagers (ie. Kerry after being swift-boated) tend to be shown the door

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~``

I wouldn't exactly say Hillary has swift-boated Obama, more like flicked him a couple of jabs.

87.  the problem with Kerry and the swiftboaters was that there wasn't anybody to have his back.  I mean, that they were preparing for him was evident in the fall of 2003.  I wasn't for Kerry, but those who were should have been ready to defuse an obvious assault.

The candidate's job is to present him/herself to the public, not engage in petty contests with other candidates. 

I think pointing out votes is fair game while characterizing them may not be. I think it perfectly fair to point out Edwards vote authorizing the war as long as you also acknowledge he has since apologized for it. (as an example)

an attack would then call him a hypocrite ...  fair game? no

or Obama saying he was against the war from the start and voting funding

just point out the vote

87.

Let me help you out with it.

Rep. Charlie Rangel(D-NY), he said on live television, went to Sen. Barrack Obama with the advise that he enter the race for the nomination of the Democratic Party for President in the 2008 election cycle. Of course, Mr. Rangel is in the political camp of Sen. Hillary Clinton and he does not mince words about it.

It's just odd to me that even one fine fellow, even bossom buddy possibly, would console you to make yourself a liar.

oops that should be 'council you'

I've been blogging today in fits and starts as hay is delivered and I go to unload it. I have to hang around.

I'm going to get serious about evaluating the candidates this week as they are in my neighborhood, even put it in front of haying. a 20% chance of rain each day makes that a reasonable decision, but in fact the big rain made a big third crop of hay and if I get it off can even get a fourth after the freeze. Sometime around this time of year it gets harder to make hay just because the days are 20 minutes too short for it to dry.

so if I catch Clinton and skip Edwards it just means I have to make a living, no bias is intended

http://www.blogforamerica.com/view/21851...

90.

Monica Smith

Even better was when he responded "that's what you do when you run for president". Oh really? He usually always has an answer when someone doesn't agree with him, and I don't mean in a good way, but here he goes again renegging on his very own promises.

New Thread

http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=07/08/14/1352243

Apparently, Rove will not have to testify before the Judiciary Committee, but if the Republicans could make Clinton testify, it would behoove the Congress to make Rove testify.  If not , it is because there are too many Republican Lite DLC and the Primary Elections in 2008 should take care of another big bunch of the DLC being removed.  WE THE PEOPLE must be about removing the DLC a.s.a.p.