Dean's first.
Gonzales should go.
We have the power!
jane

1.

jane d


Gonzales should go

-----

...to jail

Angus Reid Global Monitor : Polls & Research

Giuliani Best for Terrorism, Obama on Economy

August 6, 2007

(Angus Reid Global Monitor) - Many adults in the United States trust Republican Rudy Giuliani to handle terrorism, according to a poll by Gallup released by USA Today. 69 per cent of respondents express a great deal or a fair amount of confidence in the former New York City mayor to manage the issue.The survey asked respondents to rate the way seven U.S. presidential hopefuls would deal with four key topics. Democratic Illinois senator Barack Obama had the highest ranking on handling the economy with 62 per cent, while 55 per cent of respondents trust Giuliani and Republican Arizona senator John McCain to deal with the war in Iraq. Democratic New York senator Hillary Rodham Clinton was the top choice on health care, with 65 per cent.

…

Polling Data

Please tell me how much confidence you have in each of the following to do or to recommend the right thing for (the economy / the war in Iraq / handling terrorism / the health care system)?
("Great deal / Fair amount" listed)  

EconomyIraq WarTerrorismHealth care

Barack Obama62%54%53%61%

Hillary Rodham Clinton61%51%55%65%

Rudy Giuliani60%55%69%52%

John McCain53%55%66%45%

John Edwards51%50%48%54%

Mitt Romney40%37%38%36%

Source: Gallup / USA Today
Methodology: Telephone interviews with 1,011 American adults, conducted from Jul. 23 to Jul. 26, 2007.   

3.

another Leo, happy bday Thankful.

Wow, Thankful's birthday.  Have a good one.  Hope you get a butter cow or something.

Too bad so many Dems gave Bush and Gonzo more power to spy, and eroded our rights. I was hoping the new thread would blast them, rather than fundraise. Where is the backbone to blast these reps? Ask them to contribute from their corporate slush funds. Impeach all of them.

Happy Birthday Thankful!

Tom Bearse
Mon, 08/06/07
9:09 am

I think a tank of gasoline would be more practical, Tom. ;-)

Wow, I copied Tom Bearse's comments  when he was #6 and now he's #7!   Did he have a birthday too?

Other Leos are Obama (this past Sat 4th), my brother (the 16th) and my mother (the 19th).

Check out Jay Inslee

Send him a thank you note...

HERE: http://www.house.gov/inslee/contact/emai...

And HERE: http://www.jayinslee.com/index.php?page=...

donna, slipping comments are what this blog's all about.  It's like musical chairs.

13.

or it's like a transmission that's starting to go

WOOOT! THANKFUL, didn't know you were a fellow Leo, too!

Happy, Happy Birthday laDY!

May you have a roaring day :)

113.

Jo*in*Vermont
Mon, 08/06/07
3:55 am

re: donna , Markos mentioned the wrong Jay C.
---------------------

I'm sure he meant our jc - I think whoever transcribed his speech just spelled it wrong. as I recall she posted as 'JaySea' on Kos.

--->>>Jo, I know what you mean, but she wasn't whom he was referring to. This is what he wrote:

"This year we lost valued community members Station Wagon and Jay C.

Jim Capozzola of the Rittenhouse Review was an early pioneer of this medium, a friend and mentor to many bloggers in these first lonely days."

rdorgan wrote that 13 is like a transmission that's starting to go, only 13 is now 15.  Help, I'm falling!

Newton's law of gravity

AEI Caught Between Its Likudist Heart and Its Corporate Head
by Jim Lobe

Today’s quotation in the Financial Times attributed to Danielle Pletka, the Vice President for Foreign and Defense Policy Studies of the American Enterprise Institute (AEI), was a stunner. “If we …begin to sanction foreign companies through more stringent sanctions in the Iran Sanctions Act, I think there will be serious repercussions for our multilateral effort.”

Whatever would possess AEI and Pletka, who personally has been one of the most prominent and enthusiastic cheerleaders of the rapidly spreading state divestment movement against companies doing business in Iran, to offer a cautionary note about adopting unilateral sanctions, let alone stress the importance of preserving multilateral unity with limp-wristed European allies in dealing with a charter member of the “Axis of Evil”? Judging from its provenance at what must be considered Neo-Con Central, it certainly couldn’t be common sense.
http://www.ips.org/blog/jimlobe/?p=54

http://www.frommers.com/cgi-bin/WebX

Annilow's travelogue

I'll break the trend.

Done......Man, I do have a strong will. Woof(to myself) :)

Lots of Ospama today

Happy Happy, Thankful!

WAY TO GO DEMS!

http://www.crooksandliars.com/2007/08/06/how-bad-is-it/

Thanks to a rush-job from Congress, and some help from a couple of dozen craven Dem lawmakers, the president signed into law yesterday a new bill that offers him broad to surveillance powers, including the ability to eavesdrop on American citizens’ international communications without a warrant.

How bad is the new law? Details are a little sketchy — not surprising, given the classified subject matter — but it appears all the illegal activities the administration was engaged in have now been made legal.

Tom

a lot of bombs have dropped under the plane since 2003, any appropriate response then couldn't possibly be right now

even Obama gets a do-over if he is strong enough to take the charge of waffler

he is back on my good side after ruling out nukes

John Edwards gave a very good answer to the nukes question back in May in Independence, quite a while ago to find a video but I'll try (it was the event he and Elizabeth did together so that should help me find it)

Hey...............great job guys!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The US military cannot account for 190,000 AK-47 assault rifles and pistols given to the Iraqi security forces, an official US report says.

The Government Accountability Office (GAO) says the Pentagon cannot track about 30% of the weapons distributed in Iraq over the past three years.

The Pentagon did not dispute the figures, but said it was reviewing arms deliveries procedures.

About $19.2bn has been spent by the US since 2003 on Iraqi security forces.

even though Romney is a Mormon, what he had to say reminds me of the standard line Catholics like myself use when you enter the confessional "bless me father, for I have sinned"--

Romney comments on his most famous flip flop:

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2007/08/06/romney_says_he_erred_on_abortion/

By Susan Milligan, Globe Staff  |  August 6, 2007

WASHINGTON -- Mitt Romney yesterday called his onetime support for abortion rights his greatest personal and political mistake, and sought to reassure voters during a Republican presidential debate that he is a reliable and determined foe of abortion, an issue important to the party's religious conservatives.

...

defy gravity? someone has Superman pajama power

Happy roar fellow Leo birthdayites, maybe I'll see you this week if you travel west, Thankful

Huron John
Mon, 08/06/07
9:33 am
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

And now they go on vacation intil 9/3..................I tell ya, banana republic we are...........

I'm in favor of abortion rights -- always have been (I don't flip flop)

But if abortion is one of the issues that concern the repub base the most, I call that one out-of-touch base

IMO there's much more important issues to deal with

Phil

LOL!

so is Romney really saying he supported abortion rights in order to get elected governor of Massachusetts in 2002 ?

(if so, as a Massachusetts resident I feel like I've been used -- I didn't vote for him in 2002, I voted for the dem candidate Shannon O'Brien, but he got into the governor's chair under false pretenses IMO)

if Congress gaveled an actual recess I expect that Gonzales will be replaced in a recess appointment with someone worse

Happy Birthday Thankful. Enjoy the tune everybody.

Van Morrison & Sinead O'Connor - Have I Told You Lately
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AjG7YcCZm...

Of the 6 candidates (3 dem, 3 repub), Romney got the lowest polled numbers on all 4 issues (see comment # 4 upthread) -- the economy, the Iraq War, terrorism, health care.

he got into the governor's chair under false pretenses IMO)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 

a Republican lied ... gasp ... say it isn't so

who ever heard of such a thing

"When your only tool is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail." - Abraham Maslow

Having calmed down since the spy bill was passed (a little, I can see straight again and I'm not hyperventilating anymore)...the Dems should come back from vacation with a change in tactics... trimming and crafting bills that are 'veto-proof' is not working. Dems should not be afraid of the veto, but rather embrace it. Historically, the first veto that stands is a victory for the Prez, but when Presidents overuse or misuse the veto (Gerald Ford and Andrew Johnson come to mind) the people start to see the President as the problem and the obstructionist.

off to work now. best of days to all.  

38.

Yeah, the independents (the largest voting bloc in MA) got hoodwinked and went for a repub in 2002.

They learned the lesson though in 2006 and went with a dem (Deval Patrick) -- plus Romney was too busy promoting himself to help out his lt governor Kerry Healey run against Patrick.  Even with the Big Dig tunnel collapse, Romney got into the cameras and mikes, with Healey dutifully staying largely quiet in the background (err, kitchen).

What I don't get now, is why is Romney ahead in the Iowa polls amongst the repub base there ?

35.

Ted MacConaghy
Mon, 08/06/07
9:50 am

...trimming and crafting bills that are 'veto-proof' is not working. Dems should not be afraid of the veto, but rather embrace it. Historically, the first veto that stands is a victory for the Prez, but when Presidents overuse or misuse the veto...the people start to see the President as the problem and the obstructionist.
-----------

Good looking advice, imo. Gravel gave it to Demos months ago.
The problem though with the Demos that "should not be afraid"....
Usually people are not afraid when they have no more choices and/or have nothing to loose...., NOT the case with these Democrats.

 Bin Ladin and his allies know they cannot defeat us on the field of battle or in a genuine battle of ideas. But they can provoke the reaction we’ve seen in Iraq: a misguided invasion of a Muslim country that sparks new insurgencies, ties down our military, busts our budgets, increases the pool of terrorist recruits, alienates America, gives democracy a bad name, and prompts the American people to question our engagement in the world

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Obama says that, followed by this:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

There must be no safe-haven for terrorists who threaten America. We cannot fail to act because action is hard.
As President, I would make the hundreds of millions of dollars in U.S. military aid to Pakistan conditional, and I would make our conditions clear: Pakistan must make substantial progress in closing down the training camps, evicting foreign fighters, and preventing the Taliban from using Pakistan as a staging area for attacks in Afghanistan.
I understand that President Musharraf has his own challenges. But let me make this clear.  There are terrorists holed up in those mountains who murdered 3,000 Americans. They are plotting to strike again. It was a terrible mistake to fail to act when we had a chance to take out an al Qaeda leadership meeting in 2005. If we have actionable intelligence about high-value terrorist targets and President Musharraf won’t act, we will.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Pakistan has longer supply lines, more moderates who will turn, more extremists who would never act against us, unless given targets of opportunity,the first part has it right, why would you turn around and blow that in a more difficult environment

how does that differ from the Bush Doctrine?

Romney has spent enormous amounts of money in Iowa.

Is Bush now IMPEACHMENT FREE since the Congress passed the surveillance bill? That was said to be the foremost charge likely to be used.

If the law says it's okay to rob a bank, you can't put someone in jail for doing it.

Have we been snookered again?

Happy Birthday Thankful!!!!

Phil thanks for the plug.

Last week I got my new voter's registration card and where it used to say Dem it now says NPA. I found the form online and mailed it to registrar of voters. It was the immigration bill that got me, but if that had not, then the surveillance bill would have. I wrote Howard, Bill Nelson, and either Reid or Pelosi (can't remember) at the time to tell them. I heard on CSPAN this morning that 40% (40%!!!!) of Iowa voters are NPA. That oughta send a message.

Nation of laws -- if there is ONE tenet I still believe in and it may be the only one it is that we are a nation of laws not people and that the Constitution is the last word and that it provides for the separation of powers. If the separation of powers are out of balance (as they are now) it is up to the branches to sort it out. This requires bravery and Congress is not doing its job in this regard imo. Those who question our nation of laws and the balance of powers were perhaps not taught this system from early childhood as native born Americans have been.

35.

Ted MacConaghy
Mon, 08/06/07
9:50 am

Reply to this


"When your only tool is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail." - Abraham Maslow



GREAT QUOTE. I agree with your idea on Congress, but we've been saying that for months...with their "compromised compromises". Now, they are nicknamed the "Do Nothing Congress". They fell for another trap Repubs set and NEVER SEEM TO LISTEN TO US.

For their own sake, they better start a new.

--> I took off my cape. :(

... an ignorant hick here, still contending that Osama is more likely a resident of a skyscraper in the U.A.E, maybe even across the street from the new Halliburton headquarters (who profits from the Iraq quagmire that also plays right into Osama's plans?) that still in a hole in Pakistan.

Also, i contend that his best foot soldiers are in Saudi Arabia, recently very well trained in livefire urban combat in Iraq, not Pakistan.

I wonder if the Preznut and Gonzo will be tapping the royal phone lines in Saudi Arabia to 'smoke em out' of there?

... doubt it, they're too busy watching my 'un-American activities'.

There is an International Force in Afganistan and the actionable area isn't even our sector, but if we were to provide an anvil, Pakistan might play the hammer, with somewhat lesser fallout than if we crossed a border and invaded a sovereign nation.

Do we have a United Nations resolution? has Congress acquiested to a unitary executive, is not another war resolution required?

Is what Obama proposing a global war on terror, where we act where we please, irrespective of sovereign boundaries and International Law?

good a time as any for that debate

Happy Birthday to Thankful.  We Leos have to stick together, even if we don't believe in astrology :-).

I'm meeting on my birthday with a representative of a local radio station (yes, we still have a local radio station, just barely) about putting together a show about local (and state and national) politics.  I'll let you all know how it works out.  If I decide to do it, it will be streamed live and recorded for distribution as a podcast.  Politics can be lively here in Loudoun County, VA, and I plan to take advantage of that.

41.

Phil Specht
Mon, 08/06/07
10:09 am


Bin Ladin and his allies know they cannot defeat us on the field of battle or in a genuine battle of ideas. But they can provoke the reaction we’ve seen in Iraq: a misguided invasion of a Muslim country that sparks new insurgencies, ties down our military, busts our budgets, increases the pool of terrorist recruits, alienates America, gives democracy a bad name, and prompts the American people to question our engagement in the world
-----------------

Contradictions in Obama own speech he can't even notice is a very revealing. I hope someone else wrote it for him, otherwise I'm very sorry for the Ivy League's Universities quality of education.

The VERY FACT that "Bin Ladin and his allies...can provoke the reaction we’ve seen in Iraq" along with all consequences Obama listed should tell us that they CAN (IF NOT ALREADY!) "defeat us...in a genuine battle of ideas".

Have we been snookered again?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

audrey

that vote would be very close to an Impeachment tally most likely, it does appear a majority in Congress cares not for our form of Government

the precedent has been set

Feingold needs to round up the censure co-sponsors and go ahead and vote because he isn't going to get to 60 anyhow

fire up the primaries where needed but every Republican was on the wrong side

"defeat us...in a genuine battle of ideas".

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

the victory must come from within Islam

so far we haven't been very helpful

Gets some new dem or indy candidates to challenge the Dems who empower Bush and Gonzo.

Thank you for confirming your subscription to the Kucinich for President, 2008 email list!

Phil wrote "a lot of bombs have dropped under the plane since 2003, any appropriate response then couldn't possibly be right now."

Yes it absolutely could.  I don't know why you say that, but in any event, Obama has said he will provide military and economic aid to Pakistan and solicit their help in ridding the country of Taliban training camps for Al Qaeda.  He will take the initiative if Pakistan does not when asked.  What are you thinking to convince yourself that this is not an appropriate response to terror tactics that resembles in every material respect the one outlined by Dean? 

Phil wrote "Do we have a United Nations resolution? has Congress acquiested to a unitary executive, is not another war resolution required?"

Is Obama president?  Is there actionable intelligence? Has Masharraf refused to act on it at our request, despite accepting hundreds of millions in aid? 

No, none of this has happened.  Not only does it have to happen in order for anything like Obama described to occur, but in his statement, in absolutely no way has he precluded seeking a U.N. resolution or an authorization of Congress.  People make this stuff for some reason.  I suspect the reason is nothing other than that they want to. 

53.

Phil Specht
Mon, 08/06/07
10:35 am

Reply to this

"defeat us...in a genuine battle of ideas".

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

the victory must come from within Islam

so far we haven't been very helpful

---------------
!!!
Exactly.
It'll come from within Islam...AFTER they push us back home..., where Americans expand their victory for themselves.

55.

There you go again, using someones support for Dean then to contort the issue now. Certainly Howard has had no control of the bungling of things by Bush, Condi, and Musharaf since. Things do change, especially when dealt with in piecemeal fashions.

Do you deny that support for the radicals has grown exponentially in the border region? That any 'command and control' 'camps' are probably untouchable except by massive if not nuclear bombing? That containment may be the better way to deal with all this? AND that the threat is still closer to Rihad than to Islamabad?

Perhaps you aren't seeing past your desire to just argue, or denegrate some of the best voices here. Is that it? jealous?

HIROSHIMA, Japan - Japan marked the 62nd anniversary of Hiroshima’s atomic bombing with a solemn ceremony on Monday as the city’s mayor criticized the United States for refusing to give up its nuclear weapons program.

Tens of thousands of elderly survivors, children and dignitaries gathered at the Peace Memorial Park, near ground zero where the bomb was dropped, to remember the more than 250,000 people who ultimately died from the blast.

“Even to those who managed to survive, it was hell where they envied the dead,” Hiroshima Mayor Tadatoshi Akiba told the crowd, describing scenes from the bombing such as charred faces and torn clothes.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Ya know folks, for all the chatter about mushroom clouds, terrorists getting a abomb, an american city incinerated, etc..............wheres the training program for civilians ala civil defense?

I mean, if people are THAT worried about the inevitable......seems to be people would want to be educated as to rad, rem, isotope, wind drift, radioactive fallout, exposure, blast...........

Want to really scare(terrorize) the terrorists, and flush them out to an actual fight?

Threaten to aim your nukes (addressed to Hillary) at Mecca and Rihad AND begin shut down the poppy fields in Afghanistan.

Dang good thing i'm not in the race... Eh?

Tom

I've said it many times, but I'll repeat.

Islamist extremists gain converts by painting the west as invaders and occupiers.

and when the actual troops are within gun range confirm it and demand response

so the movement grows and our military action has been for the most part counter-productive

the solution lies within Islamic moderates winning the battle of ideas, if Western Civilization really is superior why would it fear that contest?

WW III is there for our asking, if we want to make it a war rather than a discussion

the Saudis who attacked us on Sept. 11th had a few thousands of cohorts, now they number in the tens of thousands perhaps

Is it your position to ramp that up to the hundreds of thousands, and in the words of fearlesswarleader "Bring It On!"? 

Dave wrote "There you go again, using someones support for Dean then to contort the issue now."

I didn't contort anything.  Why don't you drop your Ron Paul pom-poms, go read the text of Dean's speech, and go read the text of Obama's speech.  In the meantime we'll discuss how Ron Paul is more liberal than Harold Ford.

BBL, probably tomorrow, since i'm gonna go to a town hall meeting where i'll probably get restricted to a 'free speech zone' or something.

Love ya'll, mean it!!

60. Deaniac - Tancredo thinks the US should bomb Mecca if we should be attacked again...

Obama Unveils Comprehensive Strategy to Fight Global Terrorism
Washington, DC - In a major national security address at the Woodrow Wilson International Center for Scholars, U.S. Senator Barack Obama today said that the war in Iraq and our failed leadership in Washington have made us less safe than we were before 9/11.  Obama said that the U.S. has been fighting on the wrong battlefield, and outlined his comprehensive strategy to fight terrorism worldwide.
“After 9/11, our calling was to devise new strategies and build new alliances, to secure our homeland and safeguard our values, and to serve a just cause abroad,” said Obama.  “Just because the President misrepresents our enemies does not mean we do not have them.  When I am President, we will wage the war that has to be won.”

Obama’s comprehensive strategy to fight global terrorism has five parts:

• Get out of Iraq in order to take the fight to the terrorists in Afghanistan and Pakistan.  
• Develop the capabilities and partnerships we need to capture or kill terrorists around the world and deny them the world’s most deadly weapons.
• Dry up support for terror and extremism worldwide.  
• Make clear that the days of compromising our values are over.
• Secure our homeland by setting clear priorities and a taking a risk-based approach to homeland security.

Phil wrote "Is it your position to ramp that up to the hundreds of thousands, and in the words of fearlesswarleader 'Bring It On!'?"

No.  Do you know how you can tell?  I didn't say it was, that's how.  Do you know how you can tell its not Obama's position?  He didn't say anything like that.

Is it your position that we should invite Osama to a picnic and have goat cheese canapes?  I mean, you didn't say it was, but I was just wondering anyway.

Happy Bday to Thankful! And happy bday to Rich -- I assume your day is coming up.

Later all - too much to do.

quoting a major policy speech isn't making anything up

~~~~~~~~~

"Get out of Iraq in order to take the fight to the terrorists in Afghanistan and Pakistan."

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

is contradicted by

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"Dry up support for terror and extremism worldwide".  

63.

My pom-poms are already committed for a Gore/Kucinich ticket, or maybe a Geingold/Gravel.

But go ahead, use my reporting of real trends/events in the public as that i endorse them somehow. I do acknowledge when someone is showing guts, and when someoone who should instead takes the chorpwhore path.

... but i'm sure you're headin' for another meltdown. lol

64.

If that's where we are attacked from... i agree.

The other day a friend and I were listening to an Obama speech. He used the word terror or terrorist so mant times it reminded us of Bush. We turned it off.

Meltdown commencing in five,

four,

three,

two,

... ;~)

Phil wrote "Get out of Iraq in order to take the fight to the terrorists in Afghanistan and Pakistan."

Thanks for incorporating an actual quote in the discussion.  Now answer a serious question without the canned rhetoric.  If I were to propose whether you, Phil Specht, as U.S. President, could "take the fight to the terrorists in Afganistan and Pakistan," pinwheel some ideas and tell me, can you imagine a way this could be done without U.S. forces in Afghanistan or Pakistan? 

If you can't at all, don't even worry about it.  Instead, tell me if you, President Specht, would go into Afganistan (where there are American forces by the way) or Pakistan (where the CIA hangs out) and conduct any military operation under any circumstances whatsoever, after making every possible diplomatic effort to avoid it, if the need became obvious?

Dave wrote "... but i'm sure you're headin' for another meltdown. lol"

lol.  I'm sure you're not a libertarian troll.

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Shipping August 7th 2007
http://www.vickdogchewtoy.com/
 

"Take the fight to the terrorists" seems to be the cheap political slogan of choice these days for Democrats who think Cheney is a role model.

One of the most disappointing things for me about all the Democratic candidates is that every one of them has bought into the "War on Terror" meme.  Terrorists aren't a nation-state, they're an organized crime family.  The weapons to use are more the weapons of good police work than the weapons of war.  Even talking about Nukes and terrorists in the same sentence is insane.  Talking about tanks and bombs and terrorists is insane.  But that's what calling it a War leads to -- using the tools of war even if they are inappropriate.

Good intelligence, turning informers, directed force against small groups of individuals, and eventually bringing those guilty to justice will protect us against terrorism more than "taking the war to them," which may kill a bunch of terrorists, but will lead to recruiting even more.

Nothing can stop the single bomber, or small group determined to kill people, so long as we maintain an open and civil society, but Bin Laden and his supporters are more like Capone and Nitti than Hitler and Tojo.

Keep talking about a War on Terror and we'll keep using the wrong tools and become more at risk.

If terrorists were found in the executive branch could assets be seized by executive order?

55.

There you go again,

...

+++++

Hate to say it, but you sound like Reagan when you say "there you go again".

How's Saxby Chambliss doing ?

Hate to say it, but you sound like Reagan when you say "there you go again".

Hate to say it, but Obama sounds like Cheney when he says, "take the fight to the terrorists." 

rich

John Edwards has derided the phrase "War on Terror" as a "bumper sticker response".

Hillary and Obama and Biden have bought in though.

79.

chuck nasmith
Mon, 08/06/07
11:21 am


If terrorists were found in the executive branch could assets be seized by executive order?
---------
roflmao..., that's a good one!

Who's Geingold ?

72. Linda SFNM - too cool for school. We may have to have one - except in the South one always worries about the political correctness since Vick is a black guy.

If 911 happened today the whitehouse phone lines would be tapped for all the calls to and from Saudi Arabia.     Impeach.

can you imagine a way this could be done without U.S. forces in Afghanistan or Pakistan? 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

We are in Afganistan with an International Force and International mandate, where did you see me opposed to supporting that mission.?

I happen to believe in the Rule of Law. 

It's thankful's birthday.....yeeeaaaahhhhh!

rich wrote "One of the most disappointing things for me about all the Democratic candidates is that every one of them has bought into the 'War on Terror' meme."

The phrase never appears in Obama's foreign policy address.  However Dean said "Eliminating the threat to Americans from al Qaeda and other terrorists is not simply a goal to put on a list with a lot of others. It must be the top priority of our government and the primary focus of our President.

Phil wrote "We are in Afganistan with an International Force and International mandate, where did you see me opposed to supporting that mission?"

No.  Thanks for your response.

Stop Nukes and start moving our country forward.

VIDEO

http://www.truemajorityaction.org/postcard/ 

John Edwards has derided the phrase "War on Terror" as a "bumper sticker response".

Every time Edwards opens his mouth he reminds me of one of these.....

PS....note the baby chameleon. 

84,
Uh....the worst terrorists are in the executive branch...they have killed more people then bin Laden.

We are in Afganistan with an International Force and International mandate, where did you see me opposed to supporting that mission.? I happen to believe in the Rule of Law.

Any dastardly act can be made legal. 

The Situation in Pakistan....

Just watched Gov. Ghani of the Province of Buchakistan (sp) on C-span2. He talked of their being no military solutin, only political.

He said there was zero production of poppies now. Farmers have been subsidised to plant fuit and nut trees and grapes, and this needs to be done in Afghanistan.

This is a very informative program, hope it repeats.

earlier I described myself in a previous thread that "I feel like I'm swimming against the tide here at times" --

-- well maybe that's why I respect Obama for saying what he said and not backing off; he's taking the heat because he essentially brought the question up "Where's Osama bin Laden?":

http://www.lvrj.com/news/8930372.html

'SIMPLE PROPOSITION': Obama stands by comment

Senator draws cheers for Pakistan invasion remark

By ED VOGEL
REVIEW-JOURNAL CAPITAL BUREAU

ELKO -- Residents of this conservative Republican bastion cheered enthusiastically Sunday evening when Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama said if elected president he might call for an invasion of mountainous areas of Pakistan in an effort to capture terrorists like Osama bin Laden.

The freshman senator from Illinois told a crowd of at least 700 people packed into the Elko Convention Center that he was not backing off the controversial statement he first made last week in Washington.

...

"If those folks who killed 3,000 of us are training to act again, and we have actionable intelligence and can take them out, and the (Pakistani) government won't act, then we should act," he said.

Obama also sought to clarify his assertion that nuclear weapons would be "off the table" in such an attack. His top rival, New York Sen. Hillary Clinton, pounced on the comment, saying leaders should not discuss hypotheticals involving nuclear weapons.

Obama portrayed the question and Clinton's critique as absurd.

"Everybody knows that you'd use conventional weapons in those circumstances ... every military expert knows that you'd never use nuclear weapons in that situation," he said.

He said the U.S. needs to end the war in Iraq and go after the real terrorists.

"We are spending $275 million a day in Iraq and I want to get that money back and spend some of it here in Elko," he said.

He also told the crowd that America's dependency on oil has the nation paying for both sides of the war on terror.

Obama appeared pleased by the response he received in Elko. He told the crowd that he is drawing more support from independents and Republicans than the other Democratic candidates are.

...

When this stuff is also coming from the conservative side...America best open it's eyes!

Martial Law has arrived

Nancy Levant
May 31, 2007


Okay, what does it take to declare Martial Law in America? It takes 1) a declared state of emergency, 2) a readied "homeland" paramilitary system to enforce the powers of Martial Law, and 3) one signature of the one person who has the authority to make the declaration.

read more....

http://www.renewamerica.us/columns/levant/070531 

and with that, I'll dog paddle upstream

'SIMPLE PROPOSITION': Obama stands by comment

Putting a foot in the mouth is easier than removing it. 

A GREAT new Eco Ad.

The Intervention 

If we read and understand Lind, the key in any international conflict is moral legitimacy.
We get the tactical fine because we can kill anyone we want at anytime. But that is the weakest force. The enxt strongestis strategic where your killing of people must be for a grand design. The strongest is moral and we have lacked moral legitamacy in VN and Iraq.
I like to use the "just cause" standard of the Catholic Church. It acknowledges that folks have a right to defend and prevent future attacks. Premptive strikes are not allowed.
We lost in Iraq before the first soldier arrived because we never had moral legitamacy. Once we lost it, we cannever get it back.
We had moral legitamacy after 9/11 in invading Afgan and getting bin Laden. We may have lost it by using B52s to obliterate villages before leaving and invading Iraq.

So now Obama threatens to crank up the violence in Pakistan when Muscharrif refuses to help (he can't).
Trying to get the moral high ground by threatening to bomb people is not a winning hand. We will end up with another Iraq. We can call it Iraqistan after the two countries invaded. We will end up loosing another war and getting another few hundred thousand folks killed.
To get bin Laden out of Pakistan we need Pakistan coporation. To get that, we have to make it save for musharrif to help.
To get that, we must change our violent foreign policy that rewards muderous thugs like Sadaam.
To get that, we need a President that is secure enough in their policies so they nuture coporation between countries and not invade them.
In short, only Gravel has the experience and history to do this.

dog soldier
Mon, 08/06/07
11:53 am
___________________________________________________________________________

The key word in all this is CHANGE OUR FOREIGN POLICY...........the

101.

dog soldier
Mon, 08/06/07
11:53 am

...
In short, only Gravel has the experience and history to do this.
---------

Dog, I have no doubts you are not Ivy League graduate, aren't you? Too strong is your logical design..., Obama should hire you for tuttoring..., lol!

102 contd..........US has hardly been an angel in its exploits sicne the end of WW2.........you reap what you sow

tuttoring = tutoring

Michael,
The key is to elect a President that is not afraid to change our moral policy.

In short, only Gravel has the experience and history to do this. 

==================

and with no ties to Corporate America, the only one that can.

Former,
thanks for the compliment...
Nope..Big Ten...Illinois and then Northwestern grad school..

I meant to say changing our foreign policy but maybe moral policy and foreign policy are related?

christ...the numbers are all screwed up..

105.

dog soldier
Mon, 08/06/07
12:04 pm

...then Northwestern grad school..
---------
any computer sciences there?

107.

dog soldier
Mon, 08/06/07
12:06 pm

...but maybe moral policy and foreign policy are related?
----------
...and domestic one also!

former,
I am a finance guy... Dealt for years in Int finance
Not overly technical.

I am starting to think the wrong number order happens when your mouse is anchored on a record and then you submit the new transaction.
It seems to go after the one where your mouse is and not at the end...

This should sho up after 113...

111.

dog soldier
Mon, 08/06/07
12:09 pm
------
Ok, thanks.

Am responding to 114 and am selecting...
maybe we got the problem figured out>

Phil is correct, Edwards has said that (and been beaten about the head and shoulders for saying it) and I should have noted that.  He should be continuing to say it to fight back against the "tougher than thou" wing of the Party. Democrats never seem to take Tom Clancy's sound advice that he put in the mouth of Jack Ryan, "If they accuse you of being friends, say NO, we are GOOD friends, if they say you're good friends, say NO we are LIFELONG friends.  Don't give them anywhere to go."

Obama, whether or not he uses the "War on Terror" phrase, as bought the meme, as is obvious from his statements about Pakistan.

Hillary, of course, has totally bought in.

Howard Dean is not running for President, so why bring him up in this discussion except to obfuscate?

Well, so far, no negative editorial or letter to the editor in the L.A. Times regarding our courageous Secretary of State Debra Bowen's decertification of electronic voting machines.  But I have no doubt they will come.

HAPPY BIRTHDAY, THANKFUL.....enjoy this day to the hilt and of course, all the rest of them!

Michael,
The key is to elect a President that is not afraid to change our moral policy.

___________________________________________________________________________

dog,

After studying my fellow countryment for 40+ years now I find this remark impossible at best.........it seems Americans have always been the first to cry foul and yet our policies almost invite response..........

Your statement wont happen because our leaders are coerced by too many outside forces mostly bad...........the Deans, Gravels, Kuciinich and Greens will always be also rans..........

Its a pathetic endless cycle that does not seem to be able to be broken............

rich wrote "Howard Dean is not running for President, so why bring him up in this discussion except to obfuscate?"

To illustrate the respective positions of the two candidates on the same issue when they were running. I'd ask him myself, rather than rely on the record, if I had such access and he was  willing to comment current on candidates, which he's not.

It's not much of an edorsement in Sitka's opinion, but this was reported on August 1, 2007 by Lauren Applebaum of NBC:

"My belief is that we have a responsibility to find bin Laden and al Qaeda wherever they operate," [John] Edwards said on camera. "I think we need to maximize pressure on Musharraf and the Pakistani government. If they can't do the job, then we have to do it."

You may also wonder why I would bring up John Edwards' statements during the 2004 vice presidential debates, since he was running for a different office in a different election year than this one.

The salient point is that he said and I can quote it.  If someone here wrote something on the blog and I can quote it, I'm going to either hold him or her to that, too, or explain the disparity of views.

Sheri - yes, I'm signed on as a Citizen Co-Sponsor of Gonzales Impeachment Resolution.
~ ~ ~ ~

Thankful to everyone for the birthday wishes :-D Donna's cake upthread is Belgian Chocolate (mmm mmm tops German Chocolate by far! :) Feel free to zap your piece into your own favorite. Tom, a butter cow isn't likely, just tomato sauce - am bz w/ my sister cooking up a bunch from her garden.

Rich - wishing you the very best on the radio show and will send good vibes your way Thurs.

Phil - will let you know about westerly travels, next weekends plans changed and the dominoes aren't quite settled yet.

New Thread :-)

New thread looking to support California Sec. of State

Mike Gravel speaking to Teamsters at a barbecue this weekend, reported by Ben Smith on his Politoco blog:

"The Alaska pipeline," said the former Alaska senator, "that was a Teamster job, and I’m the one who brought it about."

"I know many of you made a lot of money off of this," he continued. "Jimmy’s one of them right here," he said, gesturing to Teamster President James Hoffa.

"Yay for the Alaska pipeline!" Hoffa said.