Dean is first.  Happy belated birthday, Linda.

ANOTHER MESSENGER TO SHOOT, TOM

http://www.blackagendareport.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=297&Itemid=44

The general problem facing Democratic party leaders can be summed up this way.

How do we get elected one more time without giving Democratic voters any of what they want? How do we get elected without ending the war and the policies which led to it, without impeaching Cheney and Bush, without delivering health care? How do we run a woman presidential candidate who's not quite pro-choice, or a black one who's not really not all that committed to addressing issues like the nation's policies of black mass Incarceration?  

Unfortunately, they seem to have it all figured it out.

After more than five years of lies and a million dead Iraqis, most Americans are ready to see the troops brought home.  But Democratic House and Senate leaders, along with Democratic presidential candidates, except Mike Gravel and Dennis Kucinich, have cynically decided to let the war continue through the rest of George Bush's term in office, to give them something to shadowbox with, proposing ineffectual time lines, irrelevant benchmarks and gimmicks like "more rest for the troops". 

Corporate media obligingly depict this as real, if ineffectual opposition to the war in Iraq, while continuing to promote the so-called "war on terror" that will lead to more Iraqs in Africa, Latin America and elsewhere.

Though Democratic voters overwhelmingly favor impeachment of Cheney and Bush, as do a majority of Americans, party leaders want no part of this either.  Even Detroit's John Conyers, who sponsored impeachment bills last year when he was in the minority, and is now chair of the powerful House Judiciary Committee, refuses to do so this year, he reaffirmed to more than 300 disappointed citizens at his office on Monday.  Shortly after that announcement, 30 of them, including Rev. Lennox Yearwood were arrested on the spot.

The focus-group tested phrase "universal health care" is also once again on the lips of every Democratic presidential candidate because they know this is what the vast majority of the American people want.  Still, with the sole exception of Dennis Kucinich, a co-sponsor of the Medicare-For-All bill in the House, not a single Democratic candidate for president is willing to take on the parasitic private health insurance industry, which sucks up twenty to thirty cents of every American health care dollar in advertising, billing and profits.   

With Democratic leaders and corporate media omitting all discussion of Medicare-For-All or any form of single payer health care, private insurance companies can confidently switch a portion of their generous campaign donations from Republicans to Democrats without fear that anything will change.

In the same spirit, candidate presidential candidate Barack Obama's commercials on South Carolina black radio begin with the drive-by observation that there are more young black men in prison than in college before abruptly changing the subject, leaving trusting, and hopeful souls to imagine that electing him will somehow address that issue.  After all, as Obama supporter Oprah Winfrey has assured us, wishful thinking really does make it so.

This is the substance of mainstream political discussion in the Democratic party.  Deceit, denial, omission, and wishful thinking.  So far, it's working.  Corporations who till recently only donated to Republicans candidates are including Democrats in their portfolios.  Front runners Clinton and Obama are raising more cash than any Republicans this year, most of it from the very wealthy.  So you see that the Democratic Party, and democracy really do work.  Never mind what Democratic voters want.

Kind of an interesting analysis of the Biden-Gelb soft partition proposal in the NYT by Helene Cooper, suggesting Biden would be a natural candidate for Secretary of State in the next cabinet.  Here are excerpts:

"Is Joe Biden auditioning to be the next secretary of state?

"For the record, he says no.

"What he does have, that the other Democratic candidates don’t, is a coherent proposal for dealing with the debacle in Iraq that is increasingly picking up steam. Foreign policy analysts, Capitol Hill politicians and even officials in the Bush administration have started sounding positive notes.

"'The truth is, we could end up close to the Biden-Gelb proposal,' a senior administration official said, referring to the partition plan that Mr. Biden, along with Leslie Gelb, the former president of the Council on Foreign Relations, presented more than a year ago in an Op-Ed article in The New York Times.

" . . . .

"Foreign policy analysts [ ] pointed out that breaking up Iraq could cause bloodletting (as if that isn’t happening now) in Iraq’s urban areas. While Sunnis predominate in the western part of the country, Kurds in the north, and Shiites in the south, Iraq’s cities are not as homogeneous. Baghdad, Kirkuk and Mosul don’t have clear geographical lines separating the main groups.

"Or at least they didn’t. The reality is, Iraq’s cities have become far more homogeneous recently as terrified residents have fled areas where their ethnic group doesn’t predominate. The neighborhoods around the edges of Baghdad have already experienced a lot of ethnic cleansing."

" . . . .

"Mr. Biden, who said he believed that one way or the other, the United States would find itself in the role of trying to mediate a soft partition, recently went up to the United Nations in New York to chat about his idea with officials from the permanent members of the Security Council, and to try to enlist the help of the United Nations. He said he got a good response.

"'One said to me, "What took you guys so long?"' Mr. Biden said. 'We’re going to get there either by our action or by our inaction; what we need to do is to manage this transition.'

"Hmmm. Coming up with a proposal on American foreign policy? Going up to the United Nations to try to sell it? Trying to get America’s allies on board? If this president thing doesn’t work out, that wouldn’t be bad experience for someone who did want to become secretary of state."

MORE ON THE FRONT RUNNERS

The Democratic field of presidential candidates are all attempting to make the right noises in South Carolina, which is effectively the "Black primary" in the race. But that's all it is: noise. While Republicans kiss up to one of the most racist white electorates in the country (and that's saying a lot), Democrats make symbolic gestures that do not address the core issues of race-based poverty, redlining, horrific education for Black children, and mass incarceration. Barack Obama is no better than the others in the "top tier" - maybe worse, because he pretends to be "one of us" while "providing cover for those who blame the victims or prod the victims to blame themselves." Hillary Clinton gets over with Black voters on the ridiculous canard that her husband was "the first Black president." The "Black primary" is shaping up as a sham.

Illinois Senator Barack Obama, touted by Time magazine for having the courage to tell "inconvenient truths," used one of the oldest racial stereotypes in a recent speech to black South Carolina state legislators.  "In Chicago, sometimes when I talk to the black chambers of commerce," he said,  "I say, 'You know what would be a good economic development plan for our community would be if we make sure folks weren't throwing their garbage out of their cars.'"  Translation; black people are dirty and lazy.

Obama's defenders claim he is saying aloud what blacks say privately.   But presidential candidates aren't campaigning for a place in the conversation on the neighborhood corner or in the cut. Those same black state legislators whom Obama addressed had earlier released data showing that only 3 out of 10 black males and 4 out of 10 black females graduate from the public high schools in South Carolina; that 85 percent of youth prisoners and 70 percent of adult prisoners are black, and many did not have a high school diploma and were unemployed before their arrest and incarceration.

At a recent speech in Hampton, Virginia, Obama mentioned the "simmering discontent" in the black community.  He got that one right.  Even with more black officials than at any time in history - most of them Democrats - many African Americans feel that things have been moving in the wrong direction for a while now. From high infant mortality rates to low life spans, the black misery index is acute.  The effect of the huge number of black citizens under the direct control of the state through the criminal justice system, so much so it has led to diminished voting rights and participation, cannot be overstated. African Americans have gone from a "freedom movement" to the edge of no longer being free.  And there is Obama, providing cover for those who blame the victims or prodding the victims to blame themselves.  There is Hillary, promising a restoration, the flimflam of Clintonism as the blacks' best friend.

Alberto Gonzales' Theme Song :

" Nothin' could be finer

than to be a data miner . . . .

in the Whiiiiiiiiiiiite House.

Nothin' could be sweeter

than an inquisition leader

in the Whiiiiiiiiiiiite House."

Hi John.  Speaking of messengers, I'd like to mention that highlighting the text of an author's article you reproduce here, while leading the reader's eye towards the criticism of disfavored candidates like Obama and Biden, doesn't excise the criticism of the editor's preferred candidates, like Edwards, from the same article. 

leading the reader's eye towards the criticism of disfavored candidates like Obama and Biden, doesn't excise the criticism of the editor's preferred candidates, like Edwards, from the same article.   

That's true Tom, but there's not a lot of hype on the blog for Edwards, as compared to all the blather about Obama and Biden

65.

Michael Ellis
Sun, 07/29/07
8:34 am

Thats been tried in Palestine since 1948................didnt work, hasnt worked.........and will never work......................by all indications anyways.

=====================

Bosnia is a much better analogy.

To compare the present situation is Iraq to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict of post-war holocaust survivors immigrating to Zionist populations immigrating and encroaching on the land of the indigenous natives of Palestine and claiming the land to be theirs, you are stretching it a bit - to say the least.

The proposed "partition" (if you want to call it that) in Iraq itself is very different than what was proposed in 1947 (not 1948) - where we were talking about two distinct countries.  The Iraqi Proposal, referred to as Biden-Gelb, is an attempt to salvage a national government by brokering more local autonomy to the main areas  of ethnic concentration.

This is a pattern that is being followed in the last 100 years.  That of empires breaking down to local rule.  The Ottoman, and the Solviet Union, and also post-colonial period of Britain and France.

Remnants still remain, but with great local and regional self-rule.

Actually, the American colonies at the time of the revolution would be a better analogy. 

John wrote "but there's not a lot of hype on the blog for Edwards, as compared to all the blather about Obama and Biden."

It may be personal opinion, only, but I'm going to say you're wrong about that.

talking idiots on tv...................turn em all off............go out and exercise, water your garden, call your Mom...........sit out on the porch with a cappucino............ignore them, make your own decisions and opinions on your own intuition.......................

  Translation; black people are dirty and lazy.

*********************************************

Or perhaps Obama has acquired the sentiment of middle-class and upper-middle class African Americans who have achieved the economic stature necessary to pay their ticket out of the poor community they grew up in.

The same thing - unfortunately - happens all too often in other ethnic communities . . . . . including white communities. Neighborhood pride is replaced by pride in ones newly-achieved personal  economic status. Do you think Pat Buchanan would socialize with scruffy Irish immigrants newly arrived in Boston - once he bit into a bigger slice of the American pie ?

It's a difficult task - but in order to achieve integration and fairness in our schools and communities, we need to re-integrate people based on economic criteria - not racial criteria.

FRED from OR
Sun, 07/29/07
10:00 am

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

As you are aware Fred...........the West, in particular Europe and the US have been scewing things up in that region for over 100 years................both have 0 credibility amonsgt the masses, more so the US though.................any American plan will be mistrusted, despised and doom to failure.....................

When are they gonna build a theme park in Iraq? Thats a good start.............

Mmmmm, mmmmm, thanks for sharing the yummy cake Linda. Hope you had a great bday. Sis and I went out for a bit last night to toast to Rene.

Today is the day to say...

Happy Birthday to IndySteve :-)

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Mike wrote "any American plan will be mistrusted, despised and doom to failure."

The Cooper article I excerpted above indicates that for all its problems, which are discussed, the Biden-Gelb plan is a model that's gained currency in the international community of the United Nations.  The irony, of course, is that the American invasion, conducted with the authorization of Congress, including Senator Biden, has resulted in such dislocation by people fleeing threats and violence, that neighborhoods and geographic regions of Iraq are slowly becoming more and more homogeneous, which would help to implement such a plan.

Does anybody remember the game backgammon for the 80s?  Ive taken it up again, play it on line against a woman computer..............she has very snide remarks and taunts alot............but at least she admits defeat...................Im beating her too often as of late.............if anyones interested, we can play against each other on line..............let me know...............heres the web site.....................

She can be nasty, but has  a sense of humour.................

www.nabiscoworld.com/Games/game_large.aspx?gameid=10036 - 11k -

Tom Bearse
Sun, 07/29/07
10:12 am
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

The UN is NOT the native peoples.......................they goofed it up in 1948 as well.................

Mike wrote "The UN is NOT the native peoples."

Well, that wasn't my suggestion.  I was just commenting on your description of an "American plan," since the plan's origins may not be exclusive to the U.S.  

12.

For the record, there are ALMOST NO BLACK PEOPLE in New Hampshire (1-2% I think) and yet our roadsides are littered with trash on a daily basis.  Neither race nor socio-economic standing has anything to do with whether or not people are trashy.  If there's no trash in up-scale neighborhoods, it's either because they hire someone to clean it up or they have enough leisure time to take a daily stroll and pick up the stuff themselves.

Every community has anti-litter laws, but law enforcement is not interested in such stuff.  In order for such ordinances to be enforced an officer has to witness the infraction--not likely when they're racing like a bat out of hell themselves, going who knows where.

You don't really want to read my rant about why the neighborhoods where poor people live don't get the same level of service as everyone else. 

13.

Michael Ellis
Sun, 07/29/07
10:07 am

=========

No.  Oil refineries are presently in vogue.

We are talking about a proper exit strategy - no analogy is perfect, but if we need a political solution, this is the best one I can think of.  The idea of a strong central government was imposed of Britain, by Britain, for Britain.  Then Saddam Hussein maintained it with an Iron hand.  "Democracy" and maintaining that structure are not compatible.  Finally, Bush and the Neocons thought all they had to do was give these people a voting booth and everybody would love each other. 

  These people are not ready to share power, and the majority will simply suppress the minority, who see themselves as different as black and white.  Then there are the Kurds who have already separated.  Actually, they have already taken the first step of such a plan.

Iraqis may be able to co-exist with a national identity for a common defense and economic reasons, but to force them to live together with one dominating the other is insanity.

To formalize a Sunni indigenous region, and to do it with international help and recognition would stabilize the region.

Morning David ;-) long time no see.

19. 'xactly. Trashy behavior know no socio-economic bounds, same goes for classy behavior.

12. 'Neighborhood pride is replaced by pride in ones newly-achieved personal economic status.'
~ ~ it's always amazed me the things people assume about one by their zipcode.

Mike wrote "The UN is NOT the native peoples."

Well, that wasn't my suggestion.  I was just commenting on your description of an "American plan," since the plan's origins may not be exclusive to the U.S.

===============

Good point.  But also there is a distinction between the Bush Plan and the American plan.  If we don't make that distinction, we are missing a big chunk of the picture.

If we don't make that distinction the Bush mistake will represent all Americans for the history books.

Iraq beats saudi Arabia in soccer in the Asia Cup...............my life will never be the same............

Only problem is, some one forgot to tell both teams that it was the ASIA Cup.................they musta took the wrong flight.............................

Well, well, well...

Now we see exactly why there was a civil war here in the U.S.
As liberal, progressive or moderate our very own bloggers claim to be, far too many are in favor of segregation. Be it based on religion or ethnicity you are in favor of seperating folks for their own good.
How is that different from the policies of the South for which they were so criticized and attacked militarily?
Shame on all of you!!
The Iraqi are doing what is presently necessary to just stay alive when faced with radical extremes on both sides. Be it leaving the country or relocating to enclaves of their own kind.

But what do you make of the seeming togetherness over their soccer teams success?
What if surviving the assualt on their natural resources by the satanic Bush administration is just as uniting, or more so, than the soccer victories?

We will be balmed for any all out civil war, backed overtly by regional nations, if we lead any such segregation.

You guys seem to be parroting George Wallace... that puts you squarely in there with the right-wing fundamentalist who found a home in the RePuklican Party.

IMHO

Well, I just went shopping.  Sorry, almost feel like a traitor.  But, I need some new garment storage bags for the closets to keep out the moths and our paper lamp shades are falling apart.  Some things do wear out.  It was nice to do it on the computer--no gas wasted. 

I was sorry to discover that one of my favorite catalogues is no more Hold Everything seems to be recently defunct.  They send you to bed and bath, but they don't have the right stuff. 

We will be blamed for any all out civil war, backed overtly by regional nations, if we lead any such segregation.

'nuff said
*************

Russ Feingold was on Faux Gnews this morning following the completely self-absorbed Gnewt Gingregrinch. I'll not give the later any credit for anything, he is a major scab on our history, even if outdone by his successors.

The Faux ambush master really tried to wrongly prestate positions, turn answers around, and accuse the majority on Congress of inaction... but Russ was not phased. Good for him, why isn't he in the running for President?

I have stolen Thankful's cake recipe for IndySteve's birthday.  Funny, it wasn't in the Dean Cookbook...

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HAPPY BIRTHDAY INDYSTEVE!!

I have to say something about litter, which every neighborhood has some of probably. When I was walking down the highway to feed the cows I saw two new Busch beer cans on the shoulder and made a note to self to pick them up when I was headed the other direction  not the cowyard. Well, poof they were gone at 5:30 this Sunday morning with fresh car tracks in the dew. We have a bottle bill, and people will pull over and pick up cans for the price of the deposit.

Eleven states have bottle bills, y'all should pass one.

24.

Some people, especially those who segregate themselves for whatever reason, ought to be ignored.

The civil war in Iraq has been manufactured by the special forces who continued a pattern of destabilization they followed during the reign on Saddam Hussein, based on the mistaken assumption that setting communities against each other by attacking one and blaming the other will force Iraqis to turn to the occupying force for "protection."  In addition, efforts to antagonize one community against another were facilitated by sending people to be trained as police/spies and then, when they returned from Jordan, having them rat out their neighbors as insurgents.  And it was all done because the Americans weren't welcome to build bases and invited to stay for a long-long time.

The pattern is not very different from the mafia wanting to set up operations in a new neighborhood.  If the residents object, they'll be picked off until only the compliant are left.

Our military is being used as the enforcer of a gigantic criminal enterprise.  some of it under the color of law, the U.N. unfortunate complicity with a bunch of lies. 

Biden is hovering between 0 and 1 per cent here deaniac, don't worry about Iowans favoring segregation.

If he would get over trying to force an American solution on the Iraqi's he might well shoot up in the polls.

don't know who or which round table, but someone was already spinning Hillary getting beat by Edwards in Iowa saying it was a good thing because that would mean he would blunt Obama for the next contests.

if Edwards wins it won't be because some fix is in to have clintonistas secretly supporting him

If we don't make that distinction the Bush mistake will represent all Americans for the history books.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Re-election already did that because Kerry didn't make the distinction.

One of the first subject covered by Senator Feingold was the 'surge'.
He said, in contrast to the continual propoganda by the traitorous chickenhawks(and their 'uncle tom' military officers), that he sees no evidence the surge is working. He should know he is on the U.S. Senate Committees of Judiciary, Foreign Relations, Budget and Intelligence. He sighted all the hyping and misinformation of the above mentioned as to why he'll not believe automatically any report of Gen. Petraeus in Sept.

"The truth is this is draining American strength to the tune of 12 billion dollars per month.", which is a very conservative number in my opinion, that's if you put no value on the ongoing costs of the wounded - or the life of our fallen.

Democrats already have an ownership stake in the war. That is why every week that passes without them doing something costs them in the polls.

Sickeningly true. That's why changing the Democratic Party should be, must be, the first priority.

I sometimes despair at the number who still don't get it. 

Good morning All,

Happy Birthday IndySteve. May you have a wonderful day!

28.

Yes, but, it turns out that even in states with returnable bottles only about 20% of the containers are covered.  The new blight on the landscape, the plain water bottles, aren't made of the right stuff and nobody wants them back.  Then there's the waxed paper containers and the cups and bags distributed by a place like Burger King.  Never mind used diapers, car parts, oil cans, and whole plastic bags full of trash.  Many communities have gone to private trash collection or pay per bag, as a result of which there's even more incentive to get rid of stuff before you get home.

We set up government to deal with stuff we don't want and that includes trash.

Our house is assessed $10,000 a year in property tax.  The only service we regularly get from the town is the snow plowed and the garbage picked up and our Town Manager has been trying like the dickens to get rid of the latter responsibility because he doesn't like it.

Somebody ought to start making clear to people who train for a career in public administration that they need to be keen about dealing with the things people don't want.  That means they have to be people who take satisfaction in a job well done and aren't looking to be patted on the back a lot.  When the things people don't want are properly taken care of, they don't notice them.  Duh.  It's only when they're not properly managed that they notice and complain.  So, somebody who's going into that line of endeavor should not be keen on getting plaudits.

Well, I feel a little priveleged that some folks gave me the inside skinny lastnight. But I'm not too sure that makes things any better.

It seems folks who are supporting a Richardson presidency are doing so for other reasons than he would be good. They want him out of our state. He's done too much bad and they want him gone and especially because they don't see a candidate that is really speaking to issues, they might as well kill 2 birds with one stone-so to speak.

One young man I was speaking with said he thinks this election will be the lowest turn out. All these candidates are the same. There is real no choice. Funny, I see the same thing, but I can't in good conscience wish that on our country, just as I can't the others. And this one young man is VERY active, politically speaking.

Sen. Feingold followed by saying that it will be 'virtually impossible for him (Gen. Patreaus) to give the 'rosey picture' report the bile spewing interveiwer poffered.

Then followed the discussion on AG Alberto Gonzoales, with the spin tact of 'after much investigation, you can't sight anything illegal done by the AG'.
To which Russ Feingold correctly pointed out that because of the illegal non-compliance with Congressional requests for facts, the facts haven't been seen. "How can you investigate if you don't have the facts?"
The Faux idiot just sat like a doe in headlights...
THEN made this telling statement, "We (Fox News) asked the administration and Republicans to come on and defend Roberto Gonzales - we had no takers."

Hahahahahahahahahahahahah... ROFLMAO!!!

I can't bring myself to watch Faux.

It's a tough (self)assignment, but someone has to.
I also (erased 'stalk, insert) 'observe closely' the DLC traitors in GA and TN.

Happy Birthday IndySteve. May you have a wonderful day!

Linda*in*SFNM
Sun, 07/29/07
11:09 am

Thanks, Linda. How did you remember???? And I will have a good birthday. Weather has cleared, no humidity, 82 degrees. Will be down on our beach dipping toes in the lake. Anyone want to come?

 BTW, from now on I am officially counting backward from the half-century mark...!

It seems folks who are supporting a Richardson presidency are doing so for other reasons than he would be good.

He's just a DLCer blocking for Hillary by running to the left of her -- divide and conquer.

One young man I was speaking with said he thinks this election will be the lowest turn out. All these candidates are the same. There is real no choice.

Low turnout will ensure Hillary wins in a landslide. But there actually are choices in Kucinich and Gravel if people who can't stomach the others don't fall for the "electable" canard.

I can't bring myself to watch Faux. 

I took it off of my remote years ago. 

Linda*in*SFNM
Sun, 07/29/07
11:18 am

Wow, thanks a lot, NM! Don't give us someone you don't want.

Have to say that others, especially Edwards, are discussing issues in depth. And I don't see them as all alike. From Kucinich and Edwards to Biden, it's a pretty broad field for Democrats!

Will Nader run again?!!

BTW Tim Russert's show was pretty much a waste, with a panel of know-it-alls. AND the exclusive with 'the President's bipartisan Commission On Care For America's Wounded Warriors' was days behind the NewsHour on PBS.

Face the Nation had Senator Patrick Leahy (D-VT) and Senator Arlen Specter (R-PA), as advertised, but i was sorely disappionted. Except that Sen. Leahy said with much assurance that Gonzo had lied, giving him one week to correct his testimony. (Sen. Leahy of course can't sight 'secret' testimony/documents to back his assertion) BUT HE SHOULD JOIN THE CALL FOR THE AG'S IMPEACHMENT.

again, IMHO

Thankful2Thankful4Dean
Sun, 07/29/07
10:10 am

Thanks, Laurie. You always remember!! That's what makes the blog a community....wish for more. And come back often. We need your humanizing presence!

Mmmmm.....cake was delish, too! Actually, my wife and daughter are making my favorite today. Cheesecake with fresh strawberries!

BTW Tim Russert's show was pretty much a waste, with a panel of know-it-alls.

All they know is the same lie. 

40.

DLC... that is, traitors to our country, and especially the good of the people... given that they are hardly Democrats in any sense that they listen to the common folk. Harold Ford JR. said as much in a resent call in to the local talk radio. He promised that the upcoming gala in TN by the DLC will not have mere folk, the only invites will be the 'movers and get-it-done' adherents to corporate largess.

And, very very sadly, the Chair of the Hamilton Co. Democratic Party, one John Bailes(former Dean groupy, in the 'finger up to the wind' ilk, i guess) apparently is invited. He is quite proud to hitch his wagon to these traitors, extremely sadly for progressive candidates in the upcoming primaries. His predecessor, and sage i guess, went with the bluedogs at every oppurtunity.

Our work here is just begun... but i'm game.

donna in evanston
Sun, 07/29/07
10:50 am

Hello, Donna! Great to "see" you on the blog again. Hope we'll meet in person sometime!

34. I get it, Sitka, which is why I'm an Indy right now.
--------
Have fun dipping your toes, Indy Steve. Happiest of birthdays to you.

Bye all - gotta busy day.

Will Nader run again?!!

If the Democratic nominee doesn't doesn't represent the overwhelming majority of Democrats, he should.

gotta run

Many more Indy!!

Love ya'll, mean it!!

Gore/Dean ... Gore/Feingold ... Gore/Boxer

Phil Specht
Sun, 07/29/07
11:02 am

yeah, they sure think Clinton and her minions can plot everything....Edwards, if he wins Iowa, will do so on his own because he is taking the stands on solving the problems we face. I love how they (the pundits on the shows) act as if everything is coordinated by Clinton and McCauliffe.

I think Edwards is positioned just about right. Let Clinton and Obama go after each other while Edwards works the ground.

Deaniac in GA
Sun, 07/29/07
11:33 am

I agree...the politcial pundits with their know-it-all conventional wisdom have been wrong so many times, it's amazing anyone still listens to them. I don't know if I can stomach six more months of the drivel. Cokie Roberts was in typical form today, spouting CW BS as usual.

I think Edwards is positioned just about right. Let Clinton and Obama go after each other while Edwards works the ground.

By that formula for success, whoever is in last place has the best shot. 

41.

Indy Steve

Indy, you saw...Thankful is our Birthday Queen


I'm happy the day will be a beauty for you to enjoy. Wish I could join you.


I think folks know DK is different, but I think they know he doesn't have a chance. They used to be more supportive of him here, but don't seem to be any longer.

Mary and Deaniac,

Thanks for the good wishes. Best to you....stay active and come back often!

Anyone going to YearlyKos in Chicago this weekend???

Letters reveal young Clinton's drive

By Mark Leibovich, New York Times News Service  |  July 29, 2007

WASHINGTON -- They were platonic high school friends from Park Ridge, Ill., both high achievers headed East to college.

John Peavoy was a bookish film buff bound for Princeton, Hillary Rodham a driven, civic-minded Republican going off to Wellesley. They were not especially close, but they found each other smart and "interesting" and said they would try to keep in touch.

Which they did, prodigiously, exchanging dozens of letters between the late summer of 1965 and the spring of 1969. Rodham's 30 dispatches are by turns angst-ridden and prosaic, glib and brooding, anguished and ebullient -- a rare unfiltered look into the head and heart of a future first lady and would-be president. Their private expressiveness stands in sharp contrast to the ever-disciplined political persona she presents to the public now.

"Since Xmas vacation, I've gone through three and a half metamorphoses and am beginning to feel as though there is a smorgasbord of personalities spread before me," Rodham wrote to Peavoy in April 1967. "So far, I've used alienated academic, involved pseudo-hippie, educational and social reformer, and one-half of withdrawn simplicity."

"Since Xmas vacation, I've gone through three and a half metamorphoses and am beginning to feel as though there is a smorgasbord of personalities spread before me,"

And Hillary wound up a NeoCon. 

Monica Smith
Sun, 07/29/07
11:53 am

It's scary that everything you've written may come back to haunt you! I've written some stuff, especially in College, that I wouldn't want made public. College is a time to "find yourself" so I don't see this as creepy except that someone would make the private letters public.

I think folks know DK is different, but I think they know he doesn't have a chance.

Electability is an insidious disease. Why would anyone use their vote for anyone but whom they think the better of choices?

They used to be more supportive of him here, but don't seem to be any longer.

I don't like him enough to send money, but I'll vote for him if I have to. 

Gotta go.....everyone be well....take care of each other......carpe diem.

College is a time to "find yourself"

The thing is, Goldwater Girl Hillary lost herself then and has recently refound herself again.

2006 DFA-List Candidates: http://www.democracyforamerica.com/candi...

Debra Bowen is running to be California's next Secretary of State. Debra is currently a State Senator, Chair of the Senate Elections Committee, and a good-government watchdog. As Secretary of State, Debra will ensure California properly certifies all of its voting equipment -- particularly the new electronic voting machines. She will also establish an appropriate auditing mechanism to guarantee the results of every election are 100% accurate. Join Democracy for America, California for Democracy, and EMILY's List in supporting Debra Bowen for California's Secretary of State.

2006 DFA-List Results: http://www.democracyforamerica.com/resul...
Debra Bowen Secretary of State CA (Won)

Top To Bottom Review: California Secretary of State Debra Bowen began her top-to-bottom review of the voting machines certified for use in California on May 31, 2007. The review is designed to restore the public's confidence in the integrity of the electoral process and is designed to ensure that California voters are being asked to cast their ballots on machines that are secure, accurate, reliable, and accessible. full review: http://www.sos.ca.gov/elections/election...

The California Secretary of State's office will conduct a public hearing on July 30, 2007 beginning at 10:00 am in the Auditorium of the Secretary of State building at 1500 11th Street in Sacramento.

60.

Well, what I'm struck by is the sense of entitlement and the self-centeredness.  After all, the late sixties were a time when there were many opportunities to be aware of other people and other issues.

58

~~~~~~~~ 

way too many hard partying partners in crime for me to ever run

"I'll get the keg if you bring the weed" (though I never wrote it in a letter)

Biden is hovering between 0 and 1 per cent here deaniac, don't worry about Iowans favoring segregation.

If he would get over trying to force an American solution on the Iraqi's he might well shoot up in the polls.

=============

Your terminology is spinning the issue into something it is not. Your distortion is unforgivable.

Calling it segregation is a slur.  What we have now is being forced on Iraqis. Giving them local control is what they want.

Why doesn't anyone call the Indigenous Kurd region "segregated?"  It is all political spin, and tragic that Democrats have to be as narrow-minded on the Left as the Neocons are on the Right.  If we leave things "as is" with the Shiite "central" government in power, all Americans will be blamed for what Bush and the Neocons did.

The blood of the region will be on the Democrats' hands as well, and rightfully so.

Panel: Astronauts flew after drinking

CAPE CANAVERAL, Fla. (AP) After drinking heavily, an astronaut flew on a Russian spacecraft and another was cleared to fly on a space shuttle, according to interviews by a panel of outside experts, the panel's chairman said Friday.... full article: http://dwb.fresnobee.com/24hour/front/st...

Analysis: NASA culture still broken?

CAPE CANAVERAL, Fla. (AP) At NASA, once again, the problem is its culture - a habit of dismissing the concerns of knowledgeable underlings.

Four years ago, it involved higher-ups ignoring engineers who feared possible catastrophic damage to the shuttle Columbia. The engineers were right.

This time, it's NASA doctors and even astronauts getting the brushoff when voicing worries that some astronauts have drunk too much alcohol before flying... full article: http://dwb.fresnobee.com/24hour/front/st...

Biden is hovering between 0 and 1 per cent here

It's the same fwith FRED here. And no matter how many times he regurgitates the same NeoDem swill and denigrates those who disagree with him, it won't change. 

69.

Sitka
Sun, 07/29/07
12:21 pm

==========

ONe Personal attack - shooting the messenger.  If you don't have an intelligent thing to say on the issue. - please restrain yourself

Calling it segregation is a slur.

segregation: The policy or practice of separating people of different races, classes, or ethnic groups

slur: a disparaging remark

Truth can be disparaging. 

I have two intelligent things to say on the issue.

Out.

Now.

If you don't have an intelligent thing to say on the issue. - please restrain yourself

I guess there are no mirrors in FRED's house. 

I tell you though, the folks I was talking to lastnight and the young man who shared his thoughts on the upcoming presidential election, it gives me a joy knowing he was also a Deaniac. And shared too, the views of the past election that we all saw so well.

He knows that the electorate was so easily swayed in to buying the DLC talking points that they sold out their own votes. We were talking about how easy it is to say anything....for the politics of it all....and again, vote against their best interest. What was that crap the pundits started? "Vote your heart, not your head".

And there we made room for the 2008 chosen candidates.

"Man bites Dog" news !

July 29, 2007
Coalition of Evangelicals Voices Support for Palestinian State

By LAURIE GOODSTEIN
In recent years, conservative evangelicals who claim a Biblical mandate to protect Israel have built a bulwark of support for the Jewish nation — sending donations, denouncing its critics and urging it not to evacuate settlements or forfeit territory.

Now more than 30 evangelical leaders are stepping forward to say these efforts have given the wrong impression about the stance of many, if not most, American evangelicals.

On Friday, these leaders sent a letter to President Bush saying that both Israelis and Palestinians have “legitimate rights stretching back for millennia to the lands of Israel/Palestine,” and that they support the creation of a Palestinian state “that includes the vast majority of the West Bank.”

They say that being a friend to Jews and to Israel “does not mean withholding criticism when it is warranted.” The letter adds, “Both Israelis and Palestinians have committed violence and injustice against each other.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/29/us/29evangelical.html?_r=1&th&emc=th&oref=slogin

I have two intelligent things to say on the issue.

Out.

Now

==================

Reminds me of what the flag waving rednecks were saying about Iraq after 9/11

Finish.

The.

Job.

Biden is hovering between 0 and 1 per cent here

============

That does not include the countless lurkers that are so turned off by your relentless "purging" of the blog by personally attacking anyone who disagrees with you - that they would rather not post.

(AP video) Sara Lee Recalls Selected Bread Products: http://video.ap.org/v/default.aspx?g=bec...

(AP video)Tapping Into the Source of Aquafina: http://video.ap.org/v/default.aspx?g=ff4...

(AP video)FDA Concerned Recalled Food Still on Shelves: http://video.ap.org/v/default.aspx?g=1ce...

Biden is hovering between 0 and 1 per cent here

It's the same fwith FRED here.

And no matter how many times he regurgitates the same NeoDem swill and denigrates those who disagree with him, it won't change.

=============================

That does not include the countless lurkers that are so turned-off by your relentless "purging" of the blog by personally attacking anyone who disagrees with you - that they would rather not post.

On Face the Nation, Bob Schieffer said the Iraq Parliament taking August off is costing us $200,000 per minute.

 I did the math:

 
200,000
x 60  =  120,000,000
x 24  =   2,880,000,000
x 30  =  86,400,000,000

86 billion, 400 million

How much is that per capita in this country? 

74. Actually, it was the other way around, sorry.
it was "vote your head, not your heart" :)

And how many voters they talked to were repeating the talking points? "he's not electable", "I'm voting my head, not my heart". ridiculous. And easily being swayed this time to, only they chose their candidates better and have covered the bases.

Dissent is a sentiment or philosophy of non-agreement or opposition to an idea (eg. a government's policies) or an entity (eg. an individual or political party which supports such policies). The term's antonyms include agreement, consensus (when all or nearly all parties agree on something) and consent (when one party agrees to a proposition made by another).

Dissent may be expressed in many ways. In some political systems, dissent may be formally expressed by way of opposition politics, while politically repressive regimes may prohibit any form of dissent, leading to suppression of dissent and the encouragement of social or political activism. Individuals who do not conform or support the policies of certain states may be described as "dissidents," or in extreme cases, "enemies of the state".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dissent

and

http://www.dissentmagazine.org/

$28.80

On Face the Nation, Bob Schieffer said the Iraq Parliament taking August off is costing us $200,000 per minute.

The US govt taking August off in the the middle of their bloody occupation is even more shameful. 

69.
Sitka
Sun, 07/29/07
12:21 pm

And no matter how many times he regurgitates the same NeoDem swill and denigrates those who disagree with him, it won't change.

=================
I have not personally denigrated you on this thread - you have denigrated me

Asking you to stop personally attacking me is not denigrating you

It is your usual contemptuous spin on the truth.

The Iraqi Parliament is doing the only rational thing when asked to sign over and privatize the oil for half the going rate. Walk away.

let it go Fred

That does not include the countless lurkers that are so turned-off by your relentless "purging" of the blog by personally attacking anyone who disagrees with you - that they would rather not post.

When nobody backed Nixon he invoked the "silent majority"  as his secret supporters. FRED has the "countless lurkers" to back him up.

But seriously, FRED, everyone -- lurker or otherwise --  only has to read your post 67 ("tragic that Democrats have to be as narrow-minded on the Left as the Neocons are on the Right.") to know who is the serial attacker not just on this blog, but of it as well.

FRED 67 -- Attack

FRED 85 -- Victim

Next.....Sympathy 

But seriously, FRED, everyone -- lurker or otherwise --  only has to read your post 67 ("tragic that Democrats have to be as narrow-minded on the Left as the Neocons are on the Right.") to know who is the serial attacker not just on this blog, but of it as well.

==================

You wrote the book on serial attacks - most of them of a personal nature - having nothing to do with issues

Whether it be bloggers or politicians - your appetite for personal attacking is unsatiable - you never want to delve into the details of the issues - labeling and attacking the person are your stock and trade - and it has ruined this blog.

FRED 67 -- Attack

FRED 85 -- Victim

Next.....Sympathy

=====================

Thanks - you continue to provide the evidence for my case against you

let it go Fred

==============

Why, Fred?  You should tell Sitka not to personally denigrate me with contemptuous insinuations?  I have not used profanity - Phil - Is your political position making you partial to the more abusive poster?

you continue to provide the evidence for my case against you

FRED is scary at times. 

83. sorry...slipped decimal point...$288.00

Phil, do you think Sitka is posting "civil" remarks? and I am not?

FRED 92 -- Sympathy

What'd I tell ya? 

It takes two Fred, and one is always you. But yes now that you mention it it was your profanity that screwed up my one live blogging attempt so I might be carrying a grudge, so I'll take my own advice and let it go.

you continue to provide the evidence for my case against you

============

Yes.  I can be when I don't lose my cool in the face of your remarkably vicious personal attacks (and then you respond as if I am the vicious one.)

People can see through it.

Sitka, I am not the one with predictable neurotic behavior.  I just have a different political perspective. 

There is a predictable response from you though, and everyone knows what it is.

99.

It's bad enough when FRED attibutes to me what others have said. But it's beyond the pale when he attributes to me what he himself has said.

It takes two Fred, and one is always you.

================================

You are leaving out one key element with your myopic perspecitive.

My disagreement is on the issues.

The initial attack of a purely personal nature is always started by Sitka.

If you cannot see that, others can.

People can see through it.

And FRED has a poll of "countless lurkers" to prove it. 

I'll take my own advice and let it go. 

Job had nothing over on Phil. 

Sitka, you are not a liberal - you are a dictator

And Phil - you are more passively inclined to be against free speech - for passively defending Sikta's behaviour - it has nothing to do with profanity - a separate issue.

The initial attack of a purely personal nature is always started by Sitka.

This is the same guy who remembers US troops going into Bosnia and has admitted his own inability to remember what he says and misdirects quotes on a regular basis. 

But now that FRED has played the sympathy card it's time for him to go back on the attack. 

105 Fred -- Attack

What'd I tell ya? 

For the sake of the other participants on this blog, I'll let you have the last word, Sitka, if I don't it will never end - you are always right

you are always right

That's not true. But you are usually wrong. 

♥♥♥  THANKS MPROV~!!!  (83 + 95) ♥♥♥

$288 per American.

And Sitka (84) makes a good point too.  I wonder how much we're spending per person on an inactive Congress meanwhile.

Makes you wonder if we'd all do better to go back to the days of local control when we didn't even really know about big weapons and far-away peoples.  Nah.  I'm all for awareness.   Though it's really rotten what we've done to one another with our creativity.

And Sitka (84) makes a good point too.  I wonder how much we're spending per person on an inactive Congress meanwhile.

And also how many millions per second Bush's month long flight from responsibility will cost. 

If some varieties of comments would just go

the rest of us could more easily let it go

;-)

(Just trying to add some levity.)

Hubby and I are leaving soon to finally go see the new Harry Potter movie. 

Our preferred way of seeing such films is early on, and when children are present en masse.

It sure makes it more interactive!  LOL! 

It takes two Fred, and one is always you. But yes now that you mention it it was your profanity that screwed up my one live blogging attempt so I might be carrying a grudge, so I'll take my own advice and let it go

================

too bad your boy is capable of pissing me off to no end - and drives away all the moderate posters with a different POV - you know how he can do that - and he does that - you should have talked to him, long ago,  and if he listened, he would not have provoked me unrelenting.

If what you say is true (about losing a live blogging attempt) ... your failure to rein in Sitka's history of snide remarks, vicious personal insults, and creepy personal innuedoes is just as well to blame.

Nobody [your guest] wants to be a guest on a blog with vicious posters that insinuate other bloggers are nutcakes, and ridicule their disabilies, and continually calls moderate respected elder Democratic Senators, Neocons.  That's an out-of-control blog - it is stepping into a hornet's nest - it's not civil.

A "bad word" alone looks minor in comparison.

I see nobody wants to challenge me in backgammon......................some on, Im not that good..........

Happy birthday, Indy.

So much for the "last word" from FRED. Now he's re-responding to Phil's post 98 with attack, victim, and sympathy all rolled into one.

I see nobody wants to challenge me in backgammon......................some on, Im not that good..........  

================

Well, Mike, my daughter got me out on the trail sunday morning.  We "scootered" for almost 2 hours.   Sunday morning was a good time  - not many people - few polluting cars.  Had to use the mask very little.  It seems like a long time and my conditioning isn' t all that bad yet.  I was up to par with my 11-year-old on huffing and puffing.  Saw many deer in town.  They come down for the fruit trees on front yards and in the park.

got to use an 12" air-tire scooter because the posture of bicycles dislocates my spondololysthesis now for the last 15 years - thought you might find that interesting.  We each have a scooter.  Might be a better exercise than a bike in some ways.

Did any of the shows even mention the 500 point drop in the Dow this week?

Bean meal fell $40 a ton too!

yippee

Try not to miss this on C-Span!

CALL FOR A SPECIAL COUNSEL
IN THE GONZALES INVESTIGATION

Dianne Feinstein (D-CA) is especially worth hearing.

It is still on now, so should be up on C-SPAN soon.

BBL 

SELF-TEST FOR HYPOCHONDRIA

Below is a list of questions about your health. For each one, please circle the number indicating how much this is true for you.

1 = Not at all

2 = A little bit

3 = Moderately

4 = Quite a bit

5 = A great deal

1: Do you worry a lot about your health?

1 2 3 4 5

2: Do you think there is something seriously wrong with your body?

1 2 3 4 5

3: Is it hard for you to forget about yourself and think about all sorts of other things?

1 2 3 4 5

4: If you feel ill and someone tells you that you are looking better, do you become annoyed?

1 2 3 4 5

5: Do you find that you are often aware of various things happening in your body?

1 2 3 4 5

6: Are you bothered by many aches and pains?

1 2 3 4 5

7: Are you afraid of illness?

1 2 3 4 5

8: Do you worry about your health more than most people?

1 2 3 4 5

9: Do you get the feeling that people are not taking your illnesses seriously enough?

1 2 3 4 5

10: Is it hard for you to believe the doctor when he/she tells you there is nothing for you to worry about?

1 2 3 4 5

11: Do you often worry about the possibility that you have a serious illness?

1 2 3 4 5

12: If a disease is brought to your attention (through the radio, TV, newspapers, or someone you know), do you worry about getting it yourself?

1 2 3 4 5

13: Do you find that you are bothered by many different symptoms?

1 2 3 4 5

14: Do you often have the symptoms of a very serious disease?

1 2 3 4 5

The Whitely Index score is found by summing the responses to each question. The higher the score the more hypochondriacal you are likely to be. There is no set cutoff score, but healthy people without health anxiety generally have a score of 21 +/- 7 (14 to 28). Patients with hypochondria are found to have a score of 44 +/- 11 (32 to 55). These numbers are merely indications to help you find out if you have hypochondria. If your score is high we suggest you talk to your doctor about it - may be he can advice you where to find help.

If Watson gets out of the bunker I'm off for some exercise myself, playing with my new chain saw. Fawns are half grown already here Fred.

the dollar strengthened against the euro as the Dow fell some someone in the markets viewed the correction in a positive light so I guess the run-up had got ahead of itself.

a dollar worth a dollar and the Dow goes to 10,000

Did any of the shows even mention the 500 point drop in the Dow this week?

It can't be spun to Bush's favor.

They should go straight to Impeachment with Gonzales.

Hope you saw your Birthday Cake over at HEP last night, Linda!  ♥

119.

Phil Specht
Sun, 07/29/07
2:11 pm

Bean meal fell $40 a ton too!
yippee
============

Is that reverse (sarcastic) humor?  Are you really happy about that or are you losing lot of money?  Are you selling beans?

I am hoping real estate collapses so we might have a chance to buy a piece of land to camp out on, down the Central CA coast - just kidding - would like to build on it someday too.

Is that reverse (sarcastic) humor?  Are you really happy about that or are you losing lot of money?  Are you selling beans?

I would guess that Phil uses it for animal feed and is saving money. 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/norman-horowitz/there-are-obscenities-and_b_58252.html

(Obscene: is offensive to morality or decency; indecent; depraved.)

Killing is obscene. War is obscene. Cruelty is obscene, as are so many other things.

Sex between consenting adults is not obscene. Nakedness is not obscene. Words are not obscene either.

We have been at war in the Middle East for over five years. Are there valid reasons that we do not have an adequate number of trained people and equipment to get the job done properly? I don't think so. It represents another vestige of trying to run a war "on the cheap."

As with Katrina and its aftermath, we are unwilling or unable to get the job done, and there is no indication that we have the will or the expertise to make it any better. Our government is great at rhetoric, and fails almost all of the time in executing its word spoken at photo ops.

This is sad, tragic, horrid and OBSCENE

Everyone knows that we as a nation and a society are "the good guys" and that it is ok for us to kill or destroy whatever we wish because of that.

We apparently believe it is acceptable for us to have invaded Iraq , and while we are at it kill and maim a few hundred thousand innocents Iraqis, but it is not OK to show a bare breast on television, say fuck or shit as though by so doing, everyone who says or hears these words will go directly to hell.

128.

Sitka
Sun, 07/29/07
2:28 pm
=============

Of course, I just don't think like a farmer.

130.

Huron John
Sun, 07/29/07
2:32 pm

Killing is obscene. War is obscene. Cruelty is obscene, as are so many other things.

================
I just got done with something like that - don't get me started again 

BE VERY VERY AFRAID.........................

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/marty-kaplan/after-the-next-911_b_58264.html

 No matter what happens next in Iraq, something terrible is going to happen in America.

But no more than King Canute could stop the tide, no more than a Big One in California can be prevented, no more than the hundred thousand people who will die in accidents this year will evade their untimely ends, an act of domestic terrorism is inevitable. What counts is how we think about it right now, how we prepare today for when it happens tomorrow, and how we handle it -- politically, emotionally, morally -- when, as it must, it occurs.

Is there any doubt that the Bush administration, and its dead-ender allies in the Republican Party and the media, will use an act of domestic terrorism as a fresh opportunity to further demonize their political opponents and further compromise the Constitution? Will they truly be able to resist the temptations of martial law, emergency powers, and the phony prerogatives of the unitary executive in wartime? In Britain, in Israel, in Spain, in Ireland, we have seen political leaders decline the invitation to demagoguery that domestic terrorism has offered, and instead to put violence in perspective, to refuse to compromise reason and democracy, to summon their citizens to remain themselves rather than become their enemies. When the unthinkable happens to us again, will the politicians who pissed away the unity following 9/11 in the sands of Iraq have the moral wherewithal to remind us that no matter how grief-stricken we may be, the sky has not fallen and the republic has not failed?

If I could manage to be smarter about risk than I usually am, I would worry less about the possibility of terrorism, and more about the probability that the same chickenhawks who exploited it before to sell us on war without end, will exploit it again to sing the virtues of temporary fascism.

AN EXTREMELY WELL-WRITTEN PIECE--AND TIMELY!

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/steven-weber/now-its-on-to-iran-and-l_b_57468.html

We are rapidly approaching a karmic bitch slap, kiddies.

Don't think 'cause we have iPhones and drive Navigators and run our air conditioners 'round the clock that we're immune from history's all-powerful undertow. We are not. We will join the parade of nations who succumbed to the intoxicating effects of their own poetry, who allowed their loins to trump their minds, who permitted hubris and greed to relentlessly infect its population, and their collective egos to swell until the outer skin blistered and popped and oozed life itself, puddling onto the sooty ground that was once home.

Must we wait for the Neo-Cons' Lee Atwater moment, the deathbed retraction of all their unfair, unethical, inhuman behavior they've engaged in? Ain't gonna happen, chums. Think of what America was and what it has become. And once you grasp that then look only a little farther ahead to what will be. You don't need a pie chart or a power point presentation. All the work's been done and done and it is in-fucking-fallible. To see the future one need only look to the past. Look at BushCo and his Neo-Con stormtroopers: the more intense their denials, the more incendiary their threats, the more their eyes pop and their veins swell, the closer they are to their ideological orgasm: Fascism. We either heed the signs and choke it off or run before you get drenched. Constitution of the United States: prepare for the money shot!

So, good bye, Abe Lincoln. So long, Thomas Jefferson. Adios, Greatest Generation. You are over. Greed has won. Money has won. Might has won. The beasts of our nature have won. And so it is left for another future people to escape from the tyranny of their oppressive masters, to forge with their sweat and soul a nation that stands apart from the mechanized soulless empires that writhe about the surface of the depleted planet, and who can hopefully learn from our mistakes and create a nation indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

I guess the debate about Biden-Gelb continues. It is not the plan but the process. Biden starts out with:
Establish One Iraq, with Three Regions

* -Federalize Iraq in accordance with its constitution by establishing three largely autonomous regions - Shiite, Sunni and Kurd -- with a strong but limited central government in Baghdad
* Put the central government in charge of truly common interests: border defense, foreign policy, oil production and revenues
* Form regional governments -- Kurd, Sunni and Shiite -- responsible for administering their own regions.

That sounds reasonable as makes as much sense as Lind's plan to form a strong central government headed by one who hates us (Sadr).

Both have merit but neither tells how that vital first step is started.
Biden gets into the bowels of forming a soft partioned country but the important part is how does it start?
No one is talking about that but the only thing is clear it cannot involve the US in the decision making.

I watched Moyers last week and the discussion involving the West Point instructor and the Middle East author was superb. It sounds like the military is learning how to conduct low intensity 4GW activity. The guy said something really interesting about troop levels; either ramp up to 300k(which they can't) or everybody out. Leaving anyone to do the magical hunting of al Quada or training the troops will just get them killed and delay Iraq from establishing a legitimate government.
The Arab author(from Berut) said Iraq can take care of al Queda just fine.
Iran and Iraq are talking about a future life together (I can't find the article; maybe from Juan Cole). Maliki is saying he wants Petrusus out. It sounds like Iraq is starting to demand a seperation from the US.
If BushCo had the smallest of brains, they would encourage this independence movement and allow the small glimmer of Iraq nationhood to continue.

The plan isn't as important as the starting process.

I'm with Phil that the Iraqis are taking the month off to avoid the pressure of giving up their oil.  I wonder why they just can't say no?  Imtimidation?  Threats?  Fear of wrath of Cheney?

IMPEACH...Conyers has been silenced.  What do they have on him, I wonder.

Please, Al, run~ 

bbl...busy day again

Is there any doubt that the Bush administration, and its dead-ender allies in the Republican Party and the media, will use an act of domestic terrorism as a fresh opportunity to further demonize their political opponents and further compromise the Constitution?

It's a double edged sword for them. After being given carte blanche to trample on Americans' rights, a blank check to spend without supervision, and unbridled exploitation of fabricated threats, a terrorist attack would expose them as the incompetent frauds most have already come to the conclusion they are.

I guess the debate about Biden-Gelb continues.

I would say rather that B-G remains in its death throes. 

134.

dog soldier
Sun, 07/29/07
2:52 pm

=============
There were so many mistakes that screwed up the country - it is no wonder there is a "stage fright" for doing anything more - and the passion is for out asap.

Unfortunately - we are in a bind either way, but we have to remember that every mistake made in Iraq ignored the experts, ignored the international community, and was based on ideological preconceived assumptions, and those pursuing them thought those ideas to be incontravertable.

If we form a political exit strategy, over time, it could help undo most of the damage we've done (or so it may seem to future generations,) but the reason for mistakes of the Bush administration must be kept in mind constantly.

OUT! (STARTING) NOW!

it is no wonder there is a "stage fright" for doing anything more -

I guess perpetrating more death and destruction is easier for some to morally brush off than others. 

Sitka,
You may be correct but really no one knows.
My military and business backgrounds lead to trying to come up with alternative solutions as the facts change. The smart move is to look at many plans and determine the entrance and exit points for each. Reliance on one plan in warfare, business or politics leads to disaster if the events don't fit the plan.

I think some of the preconditions are we renounce the oil, close all military bases, pay every dime of reconstruction and pay reparations for those injured by our illegal and immoral actions.
We get someone else to take the lead that the Iraqis trust be it France or someone else.
We encourage the neighbors to get more involved and maybe even take the lead instead of an outside country.
We work for a Palestine state or at least for the Palistinians to have rights in Israel. We need to ramp the tension in the ME down all over.
This is probably not going to happen - especially the last step - as our policical leaders, for all practical purposes, are employees of AIPAC.

Anybody catch Charlie Rose on Friday night?  There was an extremely interesting guy that wrote a book on the CIA, and brought out many fascinating anecdotes and facts.  Catch the rerun if you can on monday

TIM WEINER OF THE NY TIMES - the guy on Charlie Rose

All that plans for warfare will produce is warfare. They are also just a convenient way to keep US troops in Iraq by those who put them there in the first place. The first step is for the US to stop committing warfare in Iraq. 

The china shop will never be put back together so long as the bull that's wrecking it is still inside. 

In fact, all presidential candidates show they are not really serious about ending the Iraq war because they are not not suggesting closing bases, renouncing the oil, voiding all oil contracts signed, and paying all reparations and rebuilding costs and exiting totally(I think Dennis talks about leaving, closing basis and paying expenses).
Unless we do this, the long nightmare will continue.

Sitka,
Yep...we gotta stop killing people...not a bad first step.

A first-first step is to overhaul our foreign and state department objectives and processes. Talking to folks is a lot better then killing them.

A first-first step is to overhaul our foreign and state department objectives and processes. Talking to folks is a lot better then killing them.

Unfortunately, the first-first-first step must be to change the Democratic Party so that it no longer apes the GOP in such matters. Until ordinary Democrats put their own party's house in order, they can never count on their political leaders to do what right or smart.

THE BOOK IS

LEGACY OF ASHES  - the history of the CIA  by Tim Weiner

You could see Charlie Rose was really fascinated himself - Weiner is a Pulitzer Prize winner and according to Rose, "we could easily do another hour, because there are so many stories to tell - I've never seen a book that's gotten so much praise from so many reviews- "

In fact, all presidential candidates show they are not really serious about ending the Iraq war because they are not not suggesting closing bases, renouncing the oil, voiding all oil contracts signed, and paying all reparations and rebuilding costs and exiting totally(I think Dennis talks about leaving, closing basis and paying expenses).
Unless we do this, the long nightmare will continue.

=============

Excellent point - deserve being reprinted here.  Even Biden doesn't go far enough to discuss these details, but so far has said more about the devil in the details than anyone else, who have all said little more than you can read on a bumper-sticker.

Sitka,
I am really, really disgusted with Dem leadership; especially the top 2 pres contendors.
The same with Dem leaders in the House and Senate. Not one candidate or high-ranking offical has ever articluated a strategic vision of how we will fit in with the rest of the world. The Dem candidates web-sites have lots of mom and apple pie stuff. Great, but the vision never gets into the candidates being. Obama comes the closest but he offers no real path to get there. Edwards is running on his populist agenda but is not getting that much traction. He admits to selling out his ideas by approving the Iraq vote. Can he be trusted?
Does anyone expect Hillary to come up with a health care plan that hurts insurance companies as she has taken hugh sums of money from the insurance lobby?
As much as I detest Hillary, I will vote for her if she wins the nomination; shallowness and all. I look at the Repub field and I see lots of mini-Bushes. Paul isn't but in some ways, he may be worse.

Yes, Dennis has said a lot too, but mostly on his web site and maybe in small gatherings, but I haven't seen that much in major debates, but yes, you can say Dennis and Joe are the only ones that seem remotely concerned about any kind of exit strategy or political end to the civil war.

The GOP California connections

Trump pulls out of Fresno project - Unexpected problems are cited with plans to acquire Running Horse golf course.
Running Horse is dead again. Billionaire developer Donald Trump has taken his 2-week-old, $30 million cash offer for the bankrupt golf and residential project in southwest Fresno off the table because recent and unexpected problems have made the deal too risky, Trump representatives said Friday....full story: http://www.fresnobee.com/263/story/97936...

Trump's Fresno golf course deal falls through - Donald Trump has withdrawn his $30 million offer for the bankrupt Running Horse golf and residential development here.
Trump representatives said they were frustrated by failed attempts to buy several privately owned parcels in the middle of the project at an acceptable price. The billionaire developer also was surprised to learn the area in southwest Fresno had too much open land and too few blighted buildings to qualify as a redevelopment area, which carries tax benefits....full article: http://www.fresnobee.com/state_wire/busi...


Farming the future in solar - S.F. startup thinks it can harness the massive investor dollars needed for its ambitious plans.

It's a tall order: Build and finance the most massive solar energy farm in the world -- one large enough to cover an entire square mile of the central San Joaquin Valley.

But executives at Cleantech America LLC -- a collection of Fortune 500 alums, entrepreneurs and risk takers -- believe they have the chops.

With plans to build not just one massive solar power farm in the region, but two, the San Francisco-based startup is hoping to find investors willing to bet hundreds of millions of dollars on a Valley solar industry that as yet exists only in the imagination....photos & full article: http://www.fresnobee.com/263/story/97901...

CARB curbs diesels - Aggressive new rules will help clean California's dirty air.
Significant improvements in air quality can be expected now that California has tough new rules in place to regulate emissions from off-highway diesel engines. The cleaner air will come at a high cost, but it is worth every penny in improved health for the state's residents.

The California Air Resources Board adopted the standards, the toughest in the nation, on Thursday, over the objections of construction firms and other companies that say they are being "punished by the very state we helped to build," in the words of one. The industry says the cost to replace and retrofit older diesel engines on a variety of equipment such as bulldozers, backhoes and forklifts will be as much as $13 billion....full article: http://www.fresnobee.com/opinion/story/9...

Our water future - Collaboration, not contention, is the aim of a bold new regional planning effort.
The quality and supply of water in the Valley is under threat from many directions. It's essential that we begin to plan a sustainable water future -- and that's exactly what a coalition of various interests is up to now. Their effort deserves support.

The work is being done under the aegis of the California Partnership for the San Joaquin Valley, and is regional in scope. Water districts, farmers, elected officials, environmentalists and others are represented. That's particularly encouraging, since some of these groups have more often been at odds on water policies. A broad, inclusive effort is much more likely to succeed than the sniping and carping that have characterized the state's water wars over the decades....full article: http://www.fresnobee.com/opinion/story/9...

GOP lawmakers wait for nominee to emerge Bush who?... http://www.fresnobee.com/561/story/98048...

Congressman Radanovich endorses Rudy Giuliani
As the 2008 Presidential Primary Election nears, elected officials are lining up behind the candidate of their choice.

The Rudy Giuliani Presidential Exploratory Committee has announced that Congressman George Radanovich is supporting former New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani for president. Congressman Radanovich's endorsement brings Giuliani's political endorsements to 21, according to www.rollcall.com. Ten of those are in California, including Representative Mary Bono, Representative David Dreier, Representative Jerry Lewis, Representative Devin Nunes, Representative Radanovich, Representative Ed Royce, Assemblyman Greg Aghazarian, Assemblyman Ted Gaines, Assemblywoman Sharon Runner and Assemblyman Cameron Smyth.

"We need a proven leader with an optimistic vision who can unite our party and our country," said Congressman George Radanovich in a statement. "Rudy Giuliani is an experienced, decisive leader who will use the same conservative principles that led to New York City's revitalization, to tackle the difficult issues our country faces today."

Congressman Radanovich has represented California's 19th district since 1994. He served as president of the 74-member 1994 House Republican Freshmen Class.

Radanovich has also worked on western water and land issues as a member of the Committee on Resources and as the chair of the Subcommittee on Water and Power. As a current member of the Committee on Energy and Commerce, Rep. Radanovich has worked to deal with telecom, health care, energy and air quality issues.

Giuliani said he welcomes Radanovich's support.

"I look forward to working together to grow our California team," Giuliani said....full article: http://www.sierrastar.com/news/story/138...


Giuliani says some judges hurt democracy
Republican presidential candidate Rudy Giuliani said Tuesday that judges who are not so-called "strict constructionists" threaten American democracy.

Giuliani, answering a question at a news conference about his support for abortion rights, veered into a broad criticism of the federal judiciary. He repeated his pledge to appoint strict constructionists to the federal bench....full article: http://www.fresnobee.com/561/story/94598...

Giuliani's mayoral record is complicated - Rudy Giuliani boasts that he reined in crime, welfare and taxes in a city once considered ungovernable. Those claims are intrinsic to the former New York mayor's pitch to Republican voters that he has the combination of competence and toughness they want in a president. Whether his record supports those claims, however, is a matter upon which admirers and critics differ markedly.

Most benchmarks during Giuliani's eight years as mayor, from the start of 1994 to Jan. 1, 2002, suggest dramatic success. The crime rate tumbled by 60 percent. Welfare rolls decreased by 52 percent. Taxes fell by at least 25 percent. While city spending grew, it lagged behind the booming economy of the 1990s...photos & full aricle: http://www.fresnobee.com/561/story/91850...

Clearing the air - Atmosphere grows more foul by the day at the Justice Department.
It's not easy to make the odor emanating from the U.S. Justice Department smell worse than it already does. It's harder to make the man at the top, Attorney General Alberto Gonzales, look less fit for the office than he already looks. Unfortunately, it seems that the department and the attorney general are up to those challenges....Several things have made the stink at Justice worse in recent days....full opinion article: http://www.fresnobee.com/274/story/97900...

Fresno Bee (AP video) Leahy: Gonzales Must Correct Mistakes: http://video.ap.org/v/default.aspx?g=73c...

dog soldier 

As much as I detest Hillary, I will vote for her if she wins the nomination; shallowness and all. I look at the Repub field and I see lots of mini-Bushes. Paul isn't but in some ways, he may be worse.

==========

half a loaf is better than none and there's always more hope with a Democrat.  We here at this blog don't run the country, the majority rules the country..

156,
Actually the electoral colllege and the Supremes run the country...just ask Al (being snarky)

157,  Actually the Simpsons run the country.

111.

listener
Sun, 07/29/07
1:38 pm


$288 per American.

And Sitka (84) makes a good point too. I wonder how much we're spending per person on an inactive Congress meanwhile.

Makes you wonder if we'd all do better to go back to the days of local control when we didn't even really know about big weapons and far-away peoples. Nah. I'm all for awareness. Though it's really rotten what we've done to one another with our creativity.
---------------

That sounds interesting, imo, the "local control" I mean.
Especially when, at the same time there is a chance to know about "far-away people" too (over the Internet).

May future belong to exactly that idea?

She can be nasty, but has  a sense of humour.................

that would be me today......................

Hey folks, you all know me quite well. I wouldn't steer you wrong.

We have a great candidate funning in the Virginia Senate 1st District for the state leg.

VIRGINIA HAS OFF YEAR ELECTIONS , HQ!!!!!!!!!!

John Miller is out candidate.

I know John and his wife Sharron quite well.

I have asked him to file an application for endorsement from DFA. He is quite a fellow.

Anyway , here is his website.

http://www.johnmillerforsenate.com/

Do me a favor, read his resume and donate something, anything.

Gov. Kaine was at a fundraiser for john this past week and Tim Kaine said this is the most important race in the state of VA. WE need to take the Senate back because of redistricting.

Help us out here folks.

I may be back later and do an interview with John.

Dear Friends:

I am running for the State Senate in Virginia's 1st District to keep Virginia moving forward.

Virginia recently earned great accolades. Forbes.com named Virginia the Best State for Business. Education Week says children in Virginia are the most likely in the nation to experience success. In the 2006 Digital States Survey, Virginia was ranked second in the nation in its use of information technology to benefit citizens. I will be one of the forward thinking legislators in Richmond to build on that success.

152.
Dennis has been ignored in major debates.
I am in a minority but he got it right on the decision to bomb homes in Pakistan if intellegence showed bin Laden was there.
He and Gravel said no. the others said yes.
They all ignored other alternatives such as limiting bin Laden's reach by closing arms and money flows. Or changing our state department objectives to encourage other countries to stop their support. This requires police work and subtly; not violence. They ignored getting out of Iraq changes the world moral dynamic and brings us closer to the world community. We get closer by closing Gitmo.

Those that allow violence show they do not understand how that destroys our moral underpinnings in the world. With all our power, when we attack someone, we lose the moral war and when moral is lost, all is lost. They do not understand how this weakens Musharraf who has nuclear weapons and questionable ability to secure them.

I think this is what Gravel meant when he said they scare him. The front-runners do not understand the moral obligations we each have to each other. They are now trying to quote Bible chapters to show their moral characters but their answers like this to rhetorical questions show they do not have any.

162.

dog soldier
Sun, 07/29/07
4:45 pm

...With all our power, when we attack someone, we lose the moral war and when moral is lost, all is lost.
---------
!!!

oh, and happiest of b-days, Indy Steve.

Kudos to you and yours. May you have many more.

Indy Steve,
I don't know how old you are but advice from an oldie...
Before the candles are lit on the cake, PULL THE BATTERY IN THE SMOKE ALARM.
Those things are really loud.

152.
Dennis has been ignored in major debates.
I am in a minority but he got it right on the decision to bomb homes in Pakistan if intellegence showed bin Laden was there.
He and Gravel said no. the others said yes

================================

Even from a cold tactical POV it was stupid. I've never been in the military but common sense tells you there are more better ways.  That's like hitting cockroaches with a sledge hammer.  Any effective well-planned cordone would work if someone didn't get bribed, but if the country is that corrupt, the intelligence of where he was is probably just as unreliable.  Bombing on an outside chance on a whim, killing innocents, creates more recruits and strengthens Al Qaeda more than capturing/killing  bin Laden ever would.

Makes you wonder if we'd all do better to go back to the days of local control when we didn't even really know about big weapons and far-away peoples. Nah. I'm all for awareness. Though it's really rotten what we've done to one another with our creativity.
---------------

That sounds interesting, imo, the "local control" I mean.
Especially when, at the same time there is a chance to know about "far-away people" too (over the Internet).

May future belong to exactly that idea?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

the near future in Iraq needs to be built that way, and we could leave quietly

we just need to get over the compulsion to kick in doors, just because we can

what is the "metric" of the ratio of IED/kicked in doors

But then again - the others are seeing the oppositions' negative ads, if they say "they would let bin Laden get away" as it were.  It is hard to know what they would really do in the oval office, and neither do they.  The answers are made for the five-second clip, the ten second sound bite.  This complicates the democratic process tremendously, but it is where politics has taken us in the 21st turn of the century.  Hopefully, U.S. politics and people will outgrow the media blitz phenomenom someday.

As much as I detest Hillary, I will vote for her if she wins the nomination

I won't say now what I'll do next year. If politicians can't put your vote in their pocket they can't ignore you as easily.

half a loaf is better than none and there's always more hope with a Democrat.

That depends on the size of the loaf. The one DCDems have been cutting us for the past couple of decades keeps getting smaller and smaller.That's why changing the Democratic party has to done before anything but half measures at best will be done by them.

The sad home invasion that made the national news here is part of our occupation strategy?

just leave

Iraqis don't like foreign fighters from either side

we have no credibility as nation builders or peacekeepers and shouldn't even try

the crime rate here fell when Clinton put local police on foot patrols (and rose again when Bush cut funding)

we just have to let them deputize their militias

What if Gonzo resigns during the recess, for family reasons(the mob), then Bush can appoint who he wants because of the recess?  Impeach them all while you can. Out of Iraq/Iran.  I should be playing backgammon.

listener! Howdyhalo :)

NO! I didn't see the good wishes on HEP, thank you for telling me. To be honest, I thought no one was commenting and I stopped dropping in every once in a while, but after your advisement I went perusing.

NOW I SEE. Haloscan is where they be.

Thank you for telling me, now I see, and thank you for the birthday wishes for me.

new thread is up.

Chiming in here.  Bombing anything anywhere in Pakistan will likely lead to nuke war.

Musharaf is on shakey legs.  If he goes down, Pakistan will be the first country, besides Israel, to have nukes AND trained terrorists who will use them.  Once Pakistan becomes a *terrorist* state, it's all over, Folks.

And we're very close to that.  The drumbeat has switched over to Pakistan.

Hillary would take us there.  So would Obama.  They are either totally naive or simply don't care as long as they have their bunkers and money.  It just boggles my mind.  Have we always been this stupid and warmongering?  Ånd I'm sure AIPAC and Israel are very happy to have a chance to... what?  Blow up the ME while they themselves are nuked?   Is that that creative destruction thing.  Won't they be surprised when Jesus is a no show at the Armeggdedon party! 

Out. Now. Start tomorrow.   

A little pizazz added to the impeachment action for a little more media interest. Rather than a solitary action, we'll make it part of a larger concept....a people's lobby.

It could take on more than one action by adding a specific bat to accommodate any House or Senate Bill, for Iraq or Single Payer etc.

The Preamble:

"Our Street" is the beginning of a people's lobby, an answer to "K Street", for the purpose of promoting and protecting the rights and interests of the average citizen.

Impeach Cheney action:

We the people on "Our Street" hereby lobby for the impeachment of VP Cheney and Pres. Bush. We pledge here (honor system) to send at this time to the Congress person named above who signed on to HRes 333 calling for the impeachment of VP Cheney, a donation to his/her next campaign, and a well earned thank you call.
Names of new signers to HRes 333 will be posted here regularly. We will begin now to reward those in Congress who do the people's work, and make note of those who do not, for the purpose of reference for future elections.

The last signer was.........Tel....Address, should appear above under Impeach Cheney action.

Three Deaniacs from the campaign here think this is a great idea. Let's hear what you think. we want to get going as soon as possible

I forgot to mention because I don't know yet, but we hope to have a "bat" to swing at, but it will register "hits", no dollars involved.

new thread