Deans are first.

Nice to have a Sirota piece here!!!!!!! Sirota gets it.

We had a major flood overnight, I'll be off much for the next few days, but I'll always share lunch with the blog.

   An Occupation of Iraq Is Not Ours to Choose

(for the Biden Crowd)

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/071707B.shtml

With typical U.S arrogance, our Congress, and the White House, now debate if, how, and when, to leave Iraq, and also about how many troops we should leave for a "training force", if we are to leave troops there.

    What they are blind and deaf to is the cold and bloody fact that the people of Iraq have already spoken, and they have told us to get ALL of our troops out in a very loud voice.

    Nowhere in the discussion is heard a word about how the citizens of Iraq feel about our genocidal presence. You'd think that the USA wasn't guilty of an illegal war. A small band of egomaniacs plotted to destroy Iraq, and now the choice of whether to stay there or not isn't ours to make.

    Any U.S. soldier that is forced to stay in Iraq is likely to be killed, if left behind, and any Iraq citizen that complies with those troops, is also subject to be killed.

    There is only one way to leave Iraq, and that is completely. Once our troops are out, we are obliged, on our knees, to assist in rebuilding what the criminals that created this war have destroyed.

    Many people say that we should leave troops there, but to do so is to sentence those troops to hatred and the likelihood of a violent death because of what we have done.

    We have no right to leave any U.S. presence in Iraq. It is a well established fact that attacking Iraq was a war crime, and to sit back now and debate how much control we are entitled to is disgusting, and a very sick joke.

  It is time to leave Iraq, lock, stock, and (gun) barrel.Their people will NEVER allow ANY U.S. occupation troops to live side by side with them in a country that will forever reflect the shame to the United States that Bush and Cheney have brought to us all.

    This war is lost. It was lost the day we invaded an innocent nation. Some of my friends say we are never leaving Iraq. I say tell it to the Vietnamese people.

     The ONLY chance we have of saving our nation is to ensure that Bush and Cheney are not allowed to retire into the sunset. If they are allowed to do that, the concept of our nation is lost forever, and we will ALL be branded as war criminals in the eyes of the world, because "We The People" allowed it to happen

Good luck, Phil. Seven inches of rain? Wow. We had a little storm last night but nothing like yours. Hope all works out for you and your neighbors.

http://www.blackagendareport.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=289&Itemid=36

Senator "Holy" Joe Lieberman wants war with Iran. His sick dream is now on the road to becoming reality because of an amendment to the Defense Authorization Act that he sponsored. The amendment states as fact that American soldiers have been killed and wounded by Iranian attacks in Iraq and requires periodic intelligence reports of Iranian activity in Iraq. The fix is already in, as the old saying goes. Every report will assert that Iran is behind every bombing, shooting or report of bad weather in Iraq. The amendment passed unanimously, 97-0.

"The legislation passed in part because cowardly Democrats wanted wiggle room and required a statement that they were not authorizing war. No matter. Iranian evil doing will be asserted on a daily basis and the call for mass killing will begin. Senators like Clinton and Obama will make long, tortured, Ivy Leaguish speeches claiming that they don't really want to kill millions of people, but gosh darnit, they just have no choice. Iranians must begin dying in large numbers.

The previous rationale for attacking Iran just wasn't working well enough. The endless screeds about dangers to Israel were themselves dangerous to Israel. It is hard to argue that Israel doesn't tell America what to do if Israel's security was given as the principle reason for waging a new war. A new, bigger lie was in order.

Reports of Iranian responsibility for the deaths of U.S. troops are accepted by no one outside of the Bush White House. They are uncritically reported in the media, especially in the New York Times. Just as all of the Iraqi resistance is now falsely identified as al-Qaeda, now every killing of an American soldier will be blamed on Iran.

The unanimous vote means that even Senators who voted against occupying Iraq will inevitably give the thumbs up to nuking millions of Iranians. There is literally no one representing the American people who will say no to this call for mass murder. Clinton, Obama, Biden and Dodd made certain that they were in Washington instead of Iowa or New Hampshire. Their votes were needed to keep the war machine chugging along and the campaign checks in the mail.

The world will ask Americans what they knew and when they knew it. Did they know that Iranian president Ahmedinejad never said Israel should be "wiped off the map?" Did they know that Israel is a nuclear power under no threat from Iran? Did they know that the U.S. is holding Iranian diplomats hostage? Ironically, outright lies and deliberate omissions in government and in the corporate media will allow most Americans to truthfully say they had no idea their government had turned them into war criminals.

Sirota's points are well taken.  I just wonder if "protect" consumers is quite the right verbiage.

There's no question that consumer rights and civil rights and individual rights are on the ascendant and, indeed, account for much of the push-back by the elite.  But, entities that have to be protected are implicitly in an inferior or subordinate position and that's not where we want people, whether as citizens or consumers or producers or traders to be.  What we want is for their RIGHTS to be respected, their equality to be asserted, and their interests promoted.  Indeed, I'd go so far as to say that's what we want for our environment as well.

And the reason why, by the way, isn't because some people are wicked or exploitative (though some are); it's because there's this practical problem of not being able to anticipate what's going to happen.  If everything happened in the moment, simultaneously, then there wouldn't be this difference between expectation and experience and we wouldn't need to rely on other people to give us the benefit of theirs. 

5.

Huron John
Wed, 07/18/07
9:16 am


http://www.blackagendareport.com/index.p...

Senator "Holy" Joe Lieberman wants war with Iran. His sick dream is now on the road to becoming reality because of an amendment to the Defense Authorization Act that he sponsored. The amendment states as fact that American soldiers have been killed and wounded by Iranian attacks in Iraq and requires periodic intelligence reports of Iranian activity in Iraq. The fix is already in...
---------

The regime’s dying convulsions can only expedited its own death.

5.

Well, for lots of Republicans the main attraction of representative government is that it enables them to evade responsibility for things done in their name.  That's part of the bargain.  The give their vote in exchange for not having to participate in the community's decisions.  The last thing they want is to have to make a choice.

It's a very attractive way to live for some people.  Some Democrats have been seduced to follow their Republican colleagues' cue.  It relieves them of the possibility of making mistakes.

Maybe that's a question we should put to all candidates.  "What's your attitude towards mistakes?" 

Huron John
Wed, 07/18/07
9:06 am
___________________________________________________________________________

Some sanity after all..only problem is, youve alowed Fred to open ip the Biden flood gates for us here for another 24 hours at least.................crikey

Umm, will someone tell Lieberman that the foreign fighters in Iraq are SAUDIE'S.

SOMEONE UPDATE HIS BLACKBERRY.

putz.

http://rawstory.com/news/2007/CNN_reporter_Bush_AlQaeda_warnings_come_0717.html

CNN's Baghdad reporter: Beware of 'smoke and mirrors from the administration' David Edwards and Muriel Kane
Published: Tuesday July 17, 2007Print This  Email This 

CNN's Wolf Blitzer spoke on Tuesday with Baghdad correspondent Michael Ware, asking him about the newly-released National Intelligence Estimate which "suggested al Qaeda is seeking to leverage al Qaeda in Iraq for attacks against US targets outside of Iraq."

"That statement in the NIE is about three years too late," Ware responded. "Al Qaeda has reorganized itself through the war in Iraq that America handed it on a silver platter in its own backyard. ... The war here ... has energized the jihadi community across the globe." Ware asserted that "Iraq veterans" among foreign terrorists "are creating a whole new momentum back in their homelands," but said that "the true danger of al Qaeda in Iraq is the template or the model it offers" even to those who have never been to Iraq.

Equally quick to insist that the NIE should not be taken too literally, Ware said, "We must be aware of the spin, the smoke and mirrors from the administration, trying to reshape the message on Iraq being specifically about al Qaeda ... trying to evoke some Pavlovian response from the American public to fear them into again supporting the war. That doesn't quite hold water."

Blitzer asked Ware about the statement by Gen. Peter Pace, chairman of the Joint Chiefs, that he has seen a "sea change" in the security situation on his current visit to Iraq.

"With the greatest of respect ... I think the general, unfortunately, is suffering from the luxury of distance," replied Ware. "I think he's expecting far too much to be able to peer through the US bubble of protection."

Ware pointed out, for example, that attacks against US forces by al Qaeda in Anbar Province may have dropped significantly, but only because "America's subcontracted out the fight against al Qaeda to the Baathist insurgents and the tribes."

"Is there a sea-change in Baghdad?" Ware concluded. "Well, if he's seeing one, I'm afraid I'm not. Maybe you can see it from the Green Zone, but you can't see it out here in the Red Zone where Iraqis live."

The following video is from CNN's Situation Room, broadcast on July 17.

Michael, Crikey is the definitive word this a.m.

8.

Monica Smith
Wed, 07/18/07
9:42 am
--------

The proposed formula for People "to evade responsibility for things done in their name" inadvertently or not makes "the People" ONLY responsible for the current Power structure's failures.

I'd rather disagreed with that statement.

The major reason for those failures, imo, lies within the Power structure itself.
Given the chance "the People" would not hesitate and would take responsibility for the decision THEY made. The 2006 election demonstrated it. However the Power structure itself is not ready/willing to YIELD its power to People and seems it will fight to its very end NOT TO YIELD it.

Breaking News: The U.S. command said Wednesday the highest-ranking Iraqi in the leadership of al-Qaida in Iraq has been arrested.

u believe this crap?

linda b
Wed, 07/18/07
10:10 am
___________________________________________________________________________

Linda,

Bloody great news to hear...........1 down, 500,000 to go..........we are on a roll!!!!!!!!!

Im gonna have a great Biden day..................

Levin going on again about Iraqi government failure.  

GIVE IT UP!!!!! 

the al qaida guy has been caught about 20 times.

no one believes the lies anymore.

watch the clip upthread from michael ware in baghdad. he tells it like it is.

he better watch his back with this bunch.

lies are us.

a little levity here from stephen colbert.

While you were sleeping last night, Colbert stayed awake and followed the Senate’s all-night debate on Iraq. Check out what you missed..

 Download (394) | Play (442)  Download (176) | Play (306)

I think it reflects quite poorly on our national media when Stephen Colbert better understands the mechanics of a filibuster than they do.

Levin is the other Senator from Israel.

It's not their fault Carl.

 As michael would say,"Crikey"

Lunch it is Phil. Hope the cows are all OK.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Here's some miscellaneous notes as I watch Senate Republicans try to say something other than the rubber-stamp talk they've been spitting out for years -- along with a count of how many times they use the same old cynical phrases.

Kay Bailey Hutchison (R-TX)

Desperate Buzzphrase Count:

hmm , wonder what pix bush has of these senators that keep them in line.

up or down vote.

keep em in session. non stop. til the ol farts vote to bring our troops  home.

is lindsey graham a girly man or what?

22.

linda b
Wed, 07/18/07
10:36 am

...
keep em in session. non stop. til the ol farts vote to bring our troops home.
....
----------

I would definitely prefer them keeping instead sending "non stop" to president war money appropriation bill some time ago...., it could end the war by now already.

DEMOCRATS--THE LESSER OF EVILS?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/byron-williams/we-need-a-candidate-to-go_b_56714.html

After the 2004 election, everything seemed to line up perfectly for Rove and company. They had the White House, Congress and control of the courts. The president boasted plans to use his newly acquired political capital because, as he stated, the "accountability moment" passed with his re-election.

A lot has changed since then. The president's approval rating now hovers in the mid-to-high 20s, and the Republican Party went from salivating at the prospects of a permanent majority to merely trying to control the hemorrhaging so it doesn't become the permanent minority. It does not require Orwell to conclude Republicans made a mess of things, but that would make Democrats the majority by default -- hardly a comforting proposition.

Being the party that is the lesser of two evils is not the same as being the party of change -- and change is what this country needs; it will require a lot more than offering health care for everyone, bemoaning the Iraq quagmire or criticizing the president's tax cuts.

As critical as those issues may be, they do not represent what ultimately troubles the nation. We have collectively accepted fear as America's primary issue.

I caution the Democratic faithful not to become overly giddy with GOP self-destruction. Republican downfall could lead to arrogance and hubris. Thus, the Democrats' desire for victory could come at the expense of holding their candidates accountable, which would make them no different from Republicans.

We must be willing to hold our elected leadership accountable beyond a juvenile standard that points to the past indiscretions of their predecessors as justification for their actions. But we need someone, anyone, maybe a third party candidate willing to run on something beyond fear and platitudes. The American experiment remains a radical concept based on commitment to an idea more than national origin.

Off-topic from this morning's paper. Only if you live in Florida this year can you appreciate the huge change of direction here with the departure of Jeb Bush.

Gov. Crist's protocols

Substantial retreat from fossil fuel pollution

· A 22-percent reduction in vehicle greenhouse gas emissions by 2012, and a 30-percent reduction by 2016.

· A reduction in power-plant emissions to 2000 levels by 2017, and to 1990 levels by 2025.

· Utilities are to produce at least 20 percent of their power with renewable energy sources by 2020.

· Consumers' appliances are to be 15 percent more efficient than current standards by 2020. . .

http://www.news-journalonline.com/NewsJournalOnline/Opinion/Editorials/opnOPN78071807.htm

Good Morning ALL

I hope you all are doing well.

...{{{Phil}}} I hope it isn't terrible and hope you recover from this soon.

_________________

linda b

Top Qaida leader in Iraq nabbed

Breaking News: The U.S. command said Wednesday the highest-ranking Iraqi in the leadership of al-Qaida in Iraq has been arrested.


--->> LOL How many times has this happened? The good news about folks getting numb to their actions, it works when it they don't want it too.

Just wanted to give kudos to CNN reporter Michael Ware. He does an incredible spin-free job of reporting in Iraq.

HAS EVERYONE CALLED THEIR REPUB SENATORS????

...heck, I've had to call mine TWICE this morning already.

I called, gave my "message" and then I get an email from Domenici saying "I don't support arbitrary dates".

I called back and said "how dare he. Does he think so little of his voters that he thinks they will buy those empty talking points, after standing up and saying the opposite. Or does he think we won't notice his vote."

Then I made sure I called my former Senator Voinovich as well.

18. Monica - Levin has become a member of the *Republican talking points* club on Iraq - along with Hillary Clinton. She uses the same lines...

29. mary, yes. Levin no doubt has heard the grassroots disappointment in him (putting it mildly) which is the ONLY reason he has pushed this one forward.

Levin is a major disappointment.

Too many DINO's. I've been wrestling with Dusty Rhodes in Cinci. (sorry, couldn't pass the opportunity). Well, Dusty is a DJ for an oldies station and the County Auditor. He is a right winger who wears a D and blasted the Dems, progressives and Progressive Talk Radio. As I stated in one of my replies to him "to quote another 'oldie but goodie, with friends like you, who needs enemies'".

And of course, the Chair of Hamilton Country came to Dusty's rescue in a response to Gov Dean. Pathetic.

mary vb
Wed, 07/18/07
10:58 am
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I would expect nothing less from an Aussie or Kiwi.....................except that flunkie Aussie PM.

Reid says, quoting Gladstone, that "You cannot fight against the future."  That may be true, but Bush Two lives in the present.

Huron John- "Being the party that is the lesser of two evils is not the same as being the party of change -- and change is what this country needs"


--->>> So perfectly said.

33.

Monica Smith...LOL so witty are you :)

reid just put the bill "aside" meaning no funding for the war folks.

So, DFA has a new fund-raising gimmick.  A stop the war bumper sticker.  I don't begrudge them the money, but THERE IS NO WAR TO STOP.

There is an occupation.  

If there is a civil war raging in Iraq, nothing that the U.S. can do will stop it, even though our special forces started it. 

Breaking News: The U.S. command said Wednesday the highest-ranking Iraqi in the leadership of al-Qaida in Iraq has been arrested.

It seems like yesterday they were bragging about killing the #1 Zarqawi. 

He was replaced and nothing changed.  Here we go again.

New fundraising effort? I have never seen dfa promoting anti war protests. DFA get some buses to go to DC Sept 15th. People may donate more! But then again many Dems have not have the ba..s to show up in the past.  Well, get a backbone, Impeach, and March on Washington.

I believe the aq guy was caught July 4th, but news brought now for pr.

Bush Two lives in the present.

He lives in the past.

   An Occupation of Iraq Is Not Ours to Choose

(for the Biden Crowd)

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/071707B.shtml

With typical U.S arrogance, our Congress, and the White House, now debate if, how,

===================== 

  An Occupation of Iraq Is Not Ours to Choose
    By Ward Reilly
    The Baltimore Chronicle

    Wednesday 11 July 2007

    With typical U.S arrogance, our Congress, and the White House, now debate if, how, and when, to leave Iraq, and also about how many troops we should leave for a "training force", if we are to leave troops there.

======

BIDEN IS WITH ALL OTHER DEMOCRATIC PROGRESSIVE ON THE OCCUPATION, TROLL

AND 

WHAT AN INSIDIOUS LYING BASTARD YOU ARE, JOHN, AND NOT A WORD ABOUT BIDEN IN THE ENTIRE ARTICLE

chuck nasmith
Wed, 07/18/07
11:46 am
__________________________________________________________________________

Chuck,

Its a bad sign when the Dems start pandering to the religious right...............

FRED from OR
Wed, 07/18/07
11:49 am
__________________________________________________________________________

Oh Christ here we go again............Im outta here for awhile..........it will be the Fred/Biden love fest for 6 hours at least.............

This is a trip. David Sirota has another piece. This is priceless.

I suspect our current presidential candidate Senaators will be joining this group after they don't win.

"Will DLC Dems Next Claim That Bill Gates Is Destitute?
by davidsirota [Subscribe]
Wed Jul 18, 2007 at 08:14:46 AM PDT

Attention: This piece in Roll Call newspaper today is not a story from The Onion, even though you may think it is. The story informs us that an army of former Senate staffers who have now become high-paid K Street lobbyists have organized a fundraising unit to siphon corporate cash to a group of so-called "centrist" (read: lobbyist-compliant) senators. The list of lobbyists includes Joe Lieberman's former aide who went on to become an Enron lobbyist, and Max Baucus's old Finance Committee chief of staff who, after helping write the Medicare bill, went on to become a drug industry lobbyist.

But that's not what's laugh-out-loud funny about this story. What will make you think this story just can't be real is the public rationale for the organization's creation. According to this group of senators, who have been among K Street's most reliable allies, they need this new money-raising vacuum because their so-called "centrism" makes it hard for them to raise money.
davidsirota's diary :: ::

I'm not kidding, here. Check out the excerpt (sorry - full story is behind a firewall):

"They said that while several policy-oriented organizations currently exist to provide assistance and resources for ideological moderates in the Senate -- including Third Way, the New Democrat Network and the Democratic Leadership Council -- there is little to no financial support mechanism attached to those efforts. 'These groups are all doing policy work on behalf of moderates,' said one of the organizers of the new PAC. 'There really isn't an entity that is providing fundraising for these same people.'"...Having no set constituency from which to draw contributions can often prove daunting, [Sen. Mark Pryor] said. 'In general terms, the way the fundraising world is geared right now, you do very well if you are firmly to the left or firmly to the right,' Pryor said. 'But if you are in the middle it can be much harder to raise funds for your election or re-election.'"

full diary here
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/7/18/...

Mike I noticed a DFA endorsed person the other day wearing a cross in her picture here. If Jesus was electrcuted, would she have been wearing an gold electric chair around her neck?

no money, no occupation. you are on your own rethugs.

Ratcheting up the stakes in the wake of the GOP's successful blocking of a vote on Iraq withdrawal just moments ago, Harry Reid just announced on the Senate floor that he won't allow a vote on the entire Defense Authorization bill until the Senate GOP drops its filibustering of votes on Iraq.

The move is significant because it could hold up the funding of the Pentagon's fiscal 2008 priorities until the standoff is resolved.

It comes only moments after the Republican filibuster succeeded in preventing a vote on the Reed-Levin amendment, which would have mandated withdrawal by April 2008.

Reid said:

http://electioncentral.tpmcafe.com/blog/electioncentral/2007/jul/18/breaking_reid_yanks_defense_authorization_bill_to_force_gops_hand

and specter wanted to talk after harry pulled the bill. no way specter, u are out of here.

Fred,
The article cited by John is the same article I cited yesterday. The point is we cannot dictate Iraq's future and in fact, we cannot even be a part of the discussion or decision.
When you impose sanctions on them that kill millions; illegally invade them; murdder, tortue and illegally jail them; and always treat them like crap; you lose any chance of determining the outcome.
Biden seems to operate in a vacuum. Once an outside champion is found we will be removed from the equation.

42. FRED from OR

Is there anybody here who DOESN'T think FRED is a total creep?

I can't believe the blog lets him get away with talking to people that way -- especially for simply reprinting an article which he disagrees with.

Some sanity after all..only problem is, youve alowed Fred to open ip the Biden flood gates for us here for another 24 hours at least.................crikey

==========

If you think blatant disinformation on this blog will piss me off - you are correct, Mike.

HERE ARE THE WORDS OF JOE BIDEN

...There is no purely military solution to the sectarian civil war. The only way to break the vicious cycle of violence - and to create the conditions for our armed forces to responsibly withdraw -- is to give Shiites, Sunnis and Kurds incentives to pursue their interests peacefully. That requires an equitable and viable power sharing arrangement. That's where Joe Biden's plan comes in. This plan is not partition - in fact, it may be the only way to prevent violent partition and preserve a unified Iraq...

http://www.joebiden.com/issues/?id=0009

JOE BIDEN will be on The NewsHour - PBS - Tonite check local listings - you can hear the truth about his position from his own lips..

linda b...thanks for the good news about Reid.

and don't forget that hug to Senator Webb...he has been kicken and making up for not supporting the Reid/Feingold Bill. If this doesn't pass, I hope he will see that is the best choice and REALLY make us proud to support it.

Fred,
The article cited by John is the same article I cited yesterday

==========

Yea, dog, but you didn't doctor the title to make it look as if the article was directed at Biden.  I'm not sure what your point was yesterday.  It is just another "out now" statement and directed at Biden, because his plan tells us how to get "out now"  something too complicated for an histerical extremist - I can live with that, but resorting deception is something I don't tolerate - that's what the other side mostly does.

http://www.blogforamerica.com/view/21560

new one

and to create the conditions for our armed forces to responsibly withdraw

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

in other words, they do something and then we withdraw

well the good news is we do get to hear it from Biden tonight after all the debate and see what his current position is

because that position is a non-starter with me

~~~~~~~~~~~~~

officially 9.41 inches of rain here and it came in four hours

I grabbing lunch, then back at it, floating LP tanks have been coralled so that danger has now passed. We have a pretty good taste of what Kansas faced, the weight of the water flattened a lot of crops, good thing I chopped the oats because the neighbor has no chance of getting a combine through his as they are laying on the ground like a roller went over them. Still no reports of loss of life which is a miracle but red cross shelters are set up for those that had the muddy water roar through their homes. The storm is that about to hit Indianapolis built up straight overhead for hours and then took off. 

42. Please just chill and stop the name-calling when you don't agree with someone else.

41.

My point was that he doesn't live in the future.  In a sense, that was a reference to that article I quoted from the other day in which a Seattle school person had listed something like "future orientation" as a racist cultural attitude.

I actually think that there are a lot of people who have no concept of the future and, lacking that concept, are not capable of recognizing the relationship of cause and effect.  Of course, from a socializing perspective, such a person is difficult to deal with in our society where it's assumed that negative consequences will "teach" individuals not to repeat the behavior that led to those consequences.  A person who doesn't recognize such a relationship will simply interpret the negative experience (what we call punishment) as an assault or deprivation for which there is no cause.  That's what happens when someone is incapable of recognizing a cause as being related to an effect.

I know from experience that such people exist.  I think Bush Two is one of them.  They are able to function "normally" in our society, as long as their behavior is positively directed.  When someone tells them what to do every minute of the day, they do as they're told.  In a way, they're like automatons as long as they're not in a conflicting situation.

BTW, Biden talking on the Senate floor now.  I don't know what he's saying.