Dean family fiirst.

George step on my hog a lot

is aiding the thugs in propping-up the

Iraqis al qaeda attacked us on 9/11 frame

george steped on Clinton's hog

who else would have set-up bill? 

I doubt Lugar and Warner will carry water for Bush. This Week and MTP run head to head here now that tennis is over. I say let them declare victory and bring the troops home.

What Democrats have to do first is demonstrate to Americans that Bush Two is wrong. This is difficult for Democrats because we tend to focus on what people do rather than on what they are.  But, there are many Americans who don't understand that.   

What is it about people named George?

begin planning a change of course!

They can't be serious. 

XTC  Ball and Chain       MP3      2:22:56 (Real | MP3)  

Goerge is a poor choice of names.

Georgie porgie...kissed the girls and made them cry. 

a-ga-may-su

George Step on my hog a lot

ma-la-ka ! 

5. Came out fine in Opera.

To complete the thought: Democrats focus on what people do rather than who or what they are.  Many Americans don't understand the difference.  MLK tried to put it terms of the "content of their character" as if behavior was an objective expression of that.

The problem we face is that if you believe that the moral value of a person's behavior is defined by who they are--i.e. a good person does good and a bad person does bad--then it's entirely logical to conclude that the best person in the land (the President) can only do good.

So, Bush Two has to be shown to be .....wrong. 

George calls mccain a maveric

? 

maverick

McCain's not a maverick. He's a mean, nasty deluded old man.

I wouldn't waste a single bullet on McCain anymore, save the ammunition for someone who might be the candidate like Romney or Thompson, and let him crawl off into the bushes and die. he will pretend to run til he gets matching funds to pay off debts and then hang it up.

 I like the way The News Hour honors the fallen soldiers

ABC (This Week with ass#ole) scrolls through a text representation of the dead.

PBS - The News Hour - actually honors the dead with individual frames w/picture.

let him crawl off into the bushes a..

<

well said, Phil. 

The Week (ABC)

for dullards 

BTW

"matching funds to pay off debts and then hang it up" (Phil)

<

That's the kind of prophetic insight I come here to see. 

"...let him crawl off into the bushes a.."

ha!

there's a bush or two in houston that probably
still gets goose bumps when his name is said aloud.

A quick good morning Folks,

The August issue of Harper's has a feature article on Rudolph Giuliani about how he campaigned for the mayorality of New York, how he governed, how he acts.  He's a bigot, a racist, an aggressive, nearly-out-of-control individual.  

Two other excellent articles: Jonathan Kozol on the privatization of American education: it continues apace albeit with different schemes, such as enterprize partnerships, paying testing companies, employing companies to run schools, even changing the nomenclature to students as clients or products, and principals as CEOs of education or plant managers.  Now that we've privatized the military, the national parks, the health-care system, the next will be education, libraries, maybe the police and fire departments.  It's happening.

Then, an article about the environment and how we've become the capitalist system and can't think outside it.  We get our meaning, our worth, our sustenance from jobs and money.  We have converted the environment to money terms.  How do we think outside the boxes we've crawled into? Fascinating article.

Impeach Cheney and Bush! 

Jim Webb on MTP......good job

Lindsey Graham...........wimp

Huron John
Sun, 07/15/07
9:32 am
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Segwaying(what does that mean?).................can you comment on your experience with the Canadian health care service? Did yousee Sicko?  Compare Canada to US health care..thanks

Lindsey Graham...........wimp

<

True, Mike.  

Lindsey must have been so happy to get his JAG slot.  He would have resigned his commission had he been slotted INFANTry. 

THANK YOU LINDA B FOR ELECTING WEBB.

thank u phil. saw webb at the senate office building and the fact that he remembered my hubby and me was nice. he is a neat guy that looks you in the eye when he talks, doesn't look over your shoulder.

 He is going to be campaigning for our local guy, john miller, who is running for state senate.

so I shall be reporting on this.

peac all.

http://www.wfmu.org/playlists/shows/23858

Gil Scott Heron  the revolution will not be televised

I like what Webb said:

(something like)

Lindsey didn't vote for it.  We had 57 votes. 

Lindsey Graham - He is a brother of the Pi Kappa Phi Fraternity

While in the Air Force Standby Reserve, Graham served as an appellate judge on the Air Force Court of Criminal Appeals. In September 2006 the United States Court of Appeals for the Armed Forces ruled that it was a violation of the Incompatibility Clause of the Constitution, which states that "no Person holding any Office under the United States, shall be a Member of either House during his Continuance in Office", for Graham to have been a judge on the criminal appeals court.[1]

Dude doesn't honor the law who is found to violate the Constitution.

PBS - The News Hour - actually honors the dead with individual frames w/picture.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

some of our finest from here in Iowa, dozens of them 

Amazing - how immature Lindsey Graham IS.

Amazing - how immature Lindsey Graham IS

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

hard to imagine him being President, I wouldn't waste ammo on him either

Lindsey Graham

Q:  aren't pussies thrown out of the military?  ...The "no gays in the military policy"

...then why for g@d's sake is Lindsey still wearing a uniform (one weekend a month and two weeks every year) ????

Phil

> and I would say that ABC dishonors and trivializes their service to the country. 

What is Bob Novak still doing on the nation's airwaves?

Didn't Jimmy the Greek get the boot?

This is for you Bob Novak:

(from me and the Iraqi people)

and I would say that ABC dishonors and trivializes their service to the country. 

~~~~~~~~~~~~

agree

I make a point to watch the end of the NewsHour each day and reflect on the losses.

you see when a reserve unit took a big hit and there is a grouping from one state or another

our main unit is coming home the next few weeks and after two tours many have enlistments up and the Webb Amendment might have enticed some to re-up

Bush is determined to break the army. 

The Supreme Court is one death away from having FIVE Novaks and that will keep me working my tail off through Nov. 08

I contend that we muster the Dem party activists to take a shoe with them to Repug events and show the sole of the shoe to the stage.  It's an insult, right?

37 was a response to 38

they need a new server at the NSA

Try again?  LOL 

Somebody shoot Novak, please.

thanks for being kind, I thought this crew jump on me for fraternizing with the enemy yesterday (McAuliffe) lol

when we were BSing after the program, he was explaining why Hillary would be screwed if she went negative on Obama and used the Dean/Gephart example of why it would backfire in Iowa(Edwards hiring Trippi decreases Edwards odds slightly when I think probabilities)

Russert helps sell Novak's new book (as if Novak is a truth teller)

Whores! 

Huron John
Sun, 07/15/07
9:32 am
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Segwaying(what does that mean?).................can you comment on your experience with the Canadian health care service? Did yousee Sicko?  Compare Canada to US health care..thanks

Michael, I posted a pretty detailed answer to tour initial enquiry. I'll try to find it and repost.

show the sole of the shoe to the stage.  It's an insult, right?  

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

in arab cultures paine

what are you one of them islamofascist terrorists?  now watch the order get messed with by the NSA server

"look clem!      they're tradin towel head insults"

"keep an eye on that paine guy"

The big hit of the show is Russert tossing the softball

INSULT

..."liberal"

Thanks Timmy.  Hope you come to my DARK ally,  F--- head. 

Ya, and bring your buttbuddy Novak. 

time for a wedgie

"caliphate"

Russert lost control of that whole show. If he did that bad every week he would lose his job. At least Webb saw what was happening and got in his points.

~in arab cultures~

<

Yes, but it translates 

106.

Michael Ellis
Sun, 07/15/07
8:10 am

its an olde british colonial tradition..........keep em ignorant, keep em separated(Biden) and keep em hopeless.......................

107.

Michael Ellis
Sun, 07/15/07
8:21 am

Reply to this

Some great salvos exchanged between fred, dog and sitka................but seashells is the post at the heart of the matter..............

"The Biden plan is a bandaid. We need to get to the root of the problem, the cause...

==========================

Mike,

It was the British that brought Iraq TOGETHER AS ONE COUNTRY from three Ottoman provinces that were separate

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq

scroll almost half way down

As far as the Biden plan - it is not meant to be a panacea for the USA - it is meant to be a lifeboat for alleviating and ending the civil war escalation. It is strictly a security plan - not for our security. It is for the security of the Sunni and Shiite.

In fact, Biden is in favor of a stronger central government than I would like to see.

I can make the same insult with a single digit paine, no need to lug around a shoe.

The secret service guys were dressed in black yesterday and the crowd was pressing in around Obama and the guy I was next to was sweating in the heat, and I said "you need to wear white" and he heard the last word and thought I was making some kind of racial insult, lol no sense of humor

I got to thank the Senator for coming to our event anyway.

we had a suggested donation of $10 and there was good food so I think everybody came out OK

the reception was a finger food deal with tooth picks as silver and the melon balls were the big hit

bbl

Not really IMO Phil, because Graham was effective at suffocating any interest but his nonstop interrupting rant.

Graham needs a blanket party at the next drill (weekend away for weekend warriors/sure is nice to get a war campaign medal just for being in service within the frame dates of a war/conflict)

WEBB did get an excellent hit on Lindsey(fa--ot):

about Lindsey going to Iraq -

"I've seen those congressional dog and pony shows you go on" 

18.
Michael Ellis
Wed, 07/11/07
9:45 am

___________________________________________________________________________

Huron,

Have you seen "Sicko" yet?  Please cpomment on the parts showing the Canadian system, also if you have had to use their/your system and what it was like.....thanks.  Cheers

I haven't seen it yet, but am looking forward to it. A canadian friend who did see it felt that the portrayal of the Canadian system was "fair and balanced" (with no apologies to Faux News).

Until we moved to Michigan, we were spending nearly 6 months in Canada, so did use the system. We're not enrolled, so had to pay, then submit a claim to our insurer (BCBS Federal Employees). That part worked very well. The charges were so far below American rates, BCBS tripped over themselves reimbursing us. Same thing with prescriptions

My wife is a physician who trained at University of Western Ontario, and later taught there, so our access via her classmates/former students was somewhat enhanced.

There is rationing via access to specialists, and wait times for certain procedures. A friend of ours had a partially blocked artery, and had to wait 6 months for bypass surgery. He survived the wait, but I guess some don't.

Another feature of the Canadian system that can be annoying, but is generally not life-threatening is that not every hospital has every gadget. Thus, you go one place for a CT-scan, and another which can be an hour's drive, for an MRI, etc.

None of my family members or friends would want to see single payer disappear. They are also generally opposed to a parallel private system, as that would drain away resources and doctors from the public system (as has happened in Britain and Australia).

Bottom Line--everyone has access, albeit time- and resource- constrained.

I can make the same insult with a single digit

>

I just have the most difficult time imaging you (Phil) doing that! hahaha 

I said "you need to wear white" and he heard the last word and thought I was making some kind of racial insult, lol no sense of humor

[...] 

 the reception was a finger food...the melon balls were the big hit

>

Watermelon? haha  I really did the seedless watermelon. 

I contend that we muster the Dem party activists to take a shoe with them to Repug events and show the sole of the shoe to the stage.  It's an insult, right?  

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

paine,

us Independents will just moon them..........thats a bigger insult i think............off to the pool............lets see, suntan oil, cooler with rum and coke, shades, visor and book................

did s/b dig

rum and coke

>

what kind of triathlete does rum and cokes?  LOL  Enjoy. 

Michael-- a coda to 54, which was my reply to your 7/11 query:

Most Canadians want to see improvements in their health-care system:

• More doctors
• Shorter wait times
• more nurses
• more hospital beds

The system is run by the provinces, so their is some variation among Provinces. Also, some provinces raid others for doctors, causing some friction.

As with most issues, the problem is primarily money--there just isn't enough of it, and any politician who raises taxes to pay for improvements is in danger of losing the next election.

54.  Yes, well, our daughter had to try six clinics to find one with someone competent to draw blood from an infant and that person only shows up, from three hours away, once a week.  Since the test has to be done monthly, she's forced them to set up a regular schedule, so she doesn't have to waste hours each month scheduling the procedure.

On the other hand, to get an MRI and a proper six month evaluation of the potential for tumor regrowth, she had to travel from New Mexico to Boston, as she had to do to have a normal delivery and surgery for the baby after birth in the first place.  As far as I know, her insurance is covering all of this.  Unfortunately, they would also have covered a premature termination of the pregnancy and the transfer of the neonate in an air ambulance to a facility that could handle the required surgery, if the premature baby survived the trauma of the transfer.  They did not cover the flight of the pregnant mother and her stay in an apartment close to the hospital whose doctors were prepared to wait on mother nature and do the surgery when the baby was ready to be born.

There is an extraordinary amount of idiocy in our health care system. 

we get this week at 11:30 a.m.

what time warp are warner and lugar in? stop with the putz in chief already.

wait, wait, wait.

no, no.no.

stephy , along with wolfie has become a whore for the rethugs.

out of touch.

webb, take them out.

Braintax    Biro Funk        2:48:37 (Real | MP3)  

NOW - Moyers

is now on PBS here! 

"trivialize the process of impeachment"

-about Clinton

Recall folks, that Lindsey Graham was at the point.   

Eventually, I believe health care will become a branch of government and not in the private sector. This is what happened to water supply and sewage treatment. Some towns do it with electricity.

Whenever a function of human society becomes so indispensable to health and welfare and too expensive to be competitive or multi-sectored, government takes over these functions.

I grew up in a city that included garbage pick up. When I came out West, I was surprised that most towns did not do this, that it was strictly private.

It still bothers me, because we breathe toxins in the air in winter from people burning garbage in wood stoves, print, packaging, all have petro-chemical and plastics and make dioxins when burned.

Quote: 

WE have a fighting Constitution -

it has enabled us to defeat our enemies for centuries 

On impeachment: 

when she/he

"sins against the Constitution or does damage to the Republic"

"sanction Dick Cheney and George Bush, now!"

the fourth estate - the media/press

failure 

Bruce Fein: I think Bush's crimes are a little bit different--I think they're a little more worrisome than Clinton's. You don't have to have--

Bill Moyers MORE worrisome?

Bruce Fein: More worrisome than Clinton's, because he is seeking more institutionally to cripple checks and balances and the authority of congress and the judiciary to superintend his assertions of power. He has claimed the authority to tell congress they don't have the right to know what he's doing with relation to spying on American citizens, using that information in any way that he wants, in contradiction to a federal statute called the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act. He's claimed the authority to say that he can kidnap people, throw them into dungeons abroad, dump them out into Siberia, without any political or legal accountability. These are standards that are totally anathema to a democratic society devoted to the rule of law.

Click 

For anyone who's interested, Subway's Sunday post is up at HEP.

Renee in Ohio

>

thank you, angel.  Some laymen like me relay on the goodwill of others like you. 

howdy! first the fun and then the politics. (and apologies if I am a repeat of someone earlier - today I have a handful of hours to do several day's worth of gardening so have not read the threads - I'm jucst cooling off then back to the dirt in a minute!)

my brother brought my Mother and I to see James Taylor's One Man Band in Burlington last night, to celebrate her 80th birthday. he kicked off his summer tour at the Flynn and it was wonderful! it was just JT, a great keyboardist and a mechanical drumset which 'sits in' for a couple of songs and is just too funny! his voice is still clear and beautiful and the simplicity and intimacy of it all was, to me, better than a concert with a full band in a huge auditorium...

and who knew the man was a comedian! my ribs hurt nore than once from laughing with his humor and wit. if you get a chance to see it, please do. here's the tour schedule - mostly New England but I know he's adding dates and has a couple of other projects going on:

http://www.jamestaylor.com/

relay s/b rely

BRUCE FEIN: I think that you have to have not only the courage but you have to have that conviction because it's part of your being.

[...]

BRUCE FEIN: --we cannot entrust the reins of power, unchecked power, with these people. They're untrustworthy. They're asserting theories of governments that are monarchical. We don't want them to exercise it. We don't want Hillary Clinton or Rudy Giuliani or anyone in the future to exercise that.

JOHN NICHOLS: Bill Moyers, you are making a mistake. You are making a mistake that too many people make.

BILL MOYERS: Yes.

JOHN NICHOLS: You are seeing impeachment as a constitutional crisis. Impeachment is the cure for a constitutional crisis. Don't mistake the medicine for the disease. When you have a constitutional crisis, the founders are very clear. They said there is a way to deal with this. We don't have to have a war. We don't have to raise an army and go to Washington. We have procedures in place where we can sanction a president appropriately, do what needs to be done up to the point of removing him from office and continue the republic. So we're not talking here about taking an ax to government. Quite the opposite. We are talking about applying some necessary strong medicine that may cure not merely the crisis of the moment but, done right-

75 - lol! Freudian slip - you/we DO relay news, info, what-have-you thanks to the goodwill of others who share it with us!
~~~~~~~~~

now for the politics - the drips have just about filled the bucket (slop pail) and it's soon to spill over...

The Tillman scandal and executive privilege
Posted July 15, 2007 | 05:09 AM (EST)

In the coming battle over executive privilege, Congressional Democrats should choose their ground carefully. The Pat Tillman case presents just about the perfect set of facts.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mark-kleim...

-------- now watch this 219 become a tsunami by Monday and you know it's here: Results 1 - 10 of about 219 for pat-tillman

http://news.google.com/news?sourceid=nav...:2004-29,GGLD:en&oe=UTF-8&um=1&tab=wn&q=%22pat+tillman%22&scoring=n

Biden scoffs at millions raised in campaigns

..."The idea that you need $100 million to run for president is literally obscene. It's obscene," the Delaware senator said. "It absolutely runs counter to every American instinct, that to be able to compete with your ideas that you have to be able to raise, just in the nominating process, $100 million."

...Biden said issues were more important to caucusgoers than money. "None of the Iowans, other than reporters, has asked me a single question about how much money I have.

...At a news conference outside the Iowa State Capitol, he said very few Iowans had decided who their candidate would be.

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/apps/pb...

Biden has the passion to lead

Hunker down for cheap shots from the money-changer worshippers.

George -- My Unkie George no blood relation raised me from age 5, kept me in food and shelter and sent me to a 4 year college. His picture with a huge bluefin tuna in Wedgeport NS fish museum he is 40 something and absolutetly gorgeous. He brought me a Peter Rabbit mug from Nova Scotia and a copy of Evangeline. He died an invalid at apx 80. He taught me all the Irish songs and how to harmonize. No more picking on Georges.

Healthcare -- Our system is suckie and we still have to pay for it. I was in autowreck and (wonderful) paramedics took care of everything but (terrible) emergency hospital kept giving me cat scans and xrays and to this day I don't know what my injuries were. Last week the nurse practitioner tried to prescribe me penicillin and it's all over my chart I'm allergic. If it's gonna be sucky anyway, I want it to be free.

IMPEACH BUSH CHENEY GONZALES RICE (for pure incompetence)

Novak is being treated all respectable like -- why?

79. PASSION is a good word to discribe it - if you watch his speeches (on the trail or in the Senate) he reminds me of the old fire-and-brimstone preachers, only he's preaching the values of progressives.

I don't care what disinformation some propagate on this blog - he mostly preaches progressive, liberal democratic values, and WITH PASSION - much more than passion than I see with any other candidates, who seem reserved by comparison.

82. Impeachment is looking better and better. However, timing is critical. Popularizing an idea is not always the best time to execute it. We need to be forward looking on impeachment and trust our lawmakers to know when the time is right.

auto wreck

So sorry to hear that, Annilow.  

And, it just amazes me to hear of the pervasive mediocrity here in America.  WE are not"the" superpower. 

BTW  why is it that women fawn all over  

 and trust our lawmakers

___________________________________________________________________________

Yeah Fred.....................riiiiiiight

81. Georgia has got some of the best expressions in college football: the Bulldog defense is expected to "hunker down," the players wear "silver britches," and when things are going well, the fans yell: "Go you hairy dogs!")

http://www.studentnow.com/sports/braggin...

HUNKER DOWN YOU HAIRY DOGS

Biden has the passion to lead 

But not the wisdom.

 85.

>

I direct you to:

BILL MOYERS: It seems to me the country is ahead of Congress on this. How do you explain all this talk about impeachment today out across the country?

But not the wisdom.

>

haha, ...heckler!  haha 

what kind of triathlete does rum and cokes?  LOL  Enjoy. 

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

paine,

One thats on his day off..........had to reload with some Prussers Royal Navy Rum....now, back to the pool.......................................

a drowning man passionately calls out for help Fred

he would do better in Iowa if he would tone it down a notch

and if he would leave his obsession with a single idea of Iraq's future coming from America (where he mirrors Bush)

he does have a great liberal record (as long as you throw out votes for Delaware special interests)

I like Joe. he would be 100X better than any of the rethugs

84.

<

Biden with a progressive Congress would be better than I have seen for some time.  But if that happens, I would not allow Biden to claim the leader of the Party mantle, which would reside in the Congress.

But not the wisdom.

>

haha, ...heckler!  haha

It's not heckling to point out that anyone who followed Bush into Iraq can't possess wisdom. 

Prussers Royal Navy Rum....now, back to the pool.............

<

Mike, you pirate want to be!   Don't stray outside your lane markers.

93.

Phil Specht
Sun, 07/15/07
12:56 pm

a drowning man passionately calls out for help Fred
he would do better in Iowa if he would tone it down a notch
and if he would leave his obsession with a single idea of Iraq's future coming from America (where he mirrors Bush)

he does have a great liberal record...I like Joe.
================

Tone it down? I think his passion is what we need. Kerry would have won with Biden-style passion.

He does NOT mirror Bush in any way - this is disinformation and intramural party propaganda. He is a liberal at heart, which means his ideas are open to discussion and adjustment - his PLAN IS NOT A MANDATE - IT IS AN INITIATIVE.

"Pelosi is right not to seek impeachments"

My letter printed in the Daytona Beach newspaper today: Click and scroll down toward the bottom

http://www.news-journalonline.com/opinion.htm

OK, the spouse and I have decided to plan for the future.  Who's going to replace Cheney when he's impeached?  We nominate James Earl Carter.  And then, when Bush Two is sent packing there will be a competent replacement in the wings and Jimmy can pick whoever he thinks is best for the country.  We haven't decided whether that person should pledge, like Rockefeller, not to run.

You know, I'm a big proponent of the voters deciding who's best qualified to carry out their directives. 

If the thunderstorm we're about to have isn't too bad, I'll write up a diary for KOS. 

LUGAR AND WARNER - are singing like canaries against Bush - talking about a "revised resolution" on the October anniversary of the Iraq Resolution. This was Democrats talking a year ago. We need to keep this momentem going for 2/3 majority. It is not a good time for raising animosities in the Congress, if we want to end the killing ASAP. We need to reach across the aisle as never before.

OK, the spouse and I have decided to plan for the future.  Who's going to replace Cheney when he's impeached?

If that happens, Cheney, who picked himself to be VP, will no doubt also tell Bushboy who to pick as his successor.

I thought I heard BRUCE FEIN say something to the effect that impeachment

shoud be joint (Cheney/Busch) 

97.

Right.  It wouldn't be seemly for Pelosi to seek impeachment.  As the manager of the House she need to remain objective.

What will be will be. 

It is not a good time for raising animosities in the Congress, if we want to end the killing ASAP. We need to reach across the aisle as never before.

Modern Republicans are comprised wholly of animosity. Reach across the aisle to them and you'll pull back a stump. The only way to get them to do what's right is to bludgeon them with political reality until they fear for their skins more than for their ideaology.

100.  No doubt.  But the selection has to be approved by the Senate.

93. a drowning man passionately calls out for help Fred

========
That is silly, Phil. If Biden really was that desperate for the nomination, he would not have voted his conscience on the Iraq funding bill. He's been around long enough to know it didn't help him with the activists.

I think his passion comes from convictions within, not any silly "desperation" to which you suggest.

BIDEN: HE'S GOT PASSION!

Now there's a losing campaign theme if I ever saw one. 

http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07132007/transcript4.html

[...] 

BILL MOYERS: You're saying you want the judiciary committee to call formal hearings on the impeachment of George Bush and Dick Cheney?

BIDEN: WHAT HE LACKS IN WISDOM HE MAKES UP FOR IN PASSION!

At least it's an honest campaign theme. 

We have more to gain with the cooperation of Republicans seeking peace in Iraq, at this point, than we have to gain by waving red meat at them - if we want to leave Iraq ASAP

100.  No doubt.  But the selection has to be approved by the Senate

Yes, the same one that folds like a card table. 

Now there's a losing campaign theme if I ever saw one.

>

Because you use it as distortion, maybe? 

We have more to gain with the cooperation of Republicans seeking peace in Iraq, at this point, than we have to gain by waving red meat at them - if we want to leave Iraq ASAP

The Repos who have abandoned Bush (half-heartedly) didn't do so because Democrats have been nice to them. They've done it because they see themselves or their party spiraling down the drain. 

Keep flogging and flushing them.

BBL, I gotta go eat some oysters.

WHAT YOU LACK IN ABRASIVE IGNORANCE - YOU MAKE UP FOR WITH HUMOR

Because you use it as distortion, maybe?

You're the one carrying on about Biden's "passion." I'm just giving the good political advice to not run with it. 

Yeah, that Biden=Passion thing was good for a larf.

Bush is Compassionate Conservative.

Biden is Passionate Progressive. 

Since we're alliterating:

JOE BIDEN: WISDOMLESS WONK 

102.

I thought I heard BRUCE FEIN say something to the effect that impeachment

shoud be joint (Cheney/Busch) 

I would never question anything Fein said about constitutional law but I believe he said that both should be impeached. That wouldnpt necessarily mean at the same time. That would be like trying two people at the same time for not identical crimes. Perhaps it could be done but that would take even longer, long past Jan. 2009.

I do think Fein said something about Dems wanting to impeach Nixon after he left office but they decided it would be to hard on us poor peons. 

Even if Ayatolla Cheney and BushPuppet aren't impeached, the fact that it's now being talked about in the CM further weakens them politically and is an indicator of the success of those who have been advocating it.

Keep flogging. 

The fact that Sitka is so reactive to anything good about Biden is a good sign

It means Biden is good and may have a shot at the Presidency!
That's what I think of your political instincts, Chairman Sitka.

(the guy who thinks Sadr would be good for Iraq)

bbl - to pick up the trash - gotta go change spark plugs with a torque wrench, a respirator mask, and a "passion" for an 86 Mercedes clunker.

The fact that Sitka is so reactive to anything good about Biden is a good sign

Biden, his Iraq scheme, and his candidacy, are way beyond needing a good sign. 

my guess (and it is only a guess) is that Democrats on the intelligence committee have seen a transcript or two of intercepts between al Queda and sleeper cells that are being monitored (you know they have one or two) and don't want that exposed in an impeachment trial since the warrantless spying is the most impeachable offense

if it is only crass partisan electability issues like Fred is espousing that is holding back impeachment may Democratic leaders wander in a minority wilderness for years like they deserve

their approval rating is so low because of the inability to act

(the guy who thinks Sadr would be good for Iraq)

That would be Biden since his partition scheme would give al Sadr complete control of the largest portion of Iraq. 

PS....I never said al Sadr would be good for Iraq. But keep trying. 

my guess (and it is only a guess) is that Democrats on the intelligence committee have seen a transcript or two of intercepts between al Queda and sleeper cells that are being monitored (you know they have one or two) and don't want that exposed in an impeachment trial since the warrantless spying is the most impeachable offense

Or maybe they're just political cowards.

"I find it curious that physical courage is so common in the world and moral courage so rare." -- Mark Twain 

You said Sadr would be the next President - that's like saying there's going to be an ethnic extermination of Sunnis. Biden is trying to preclude those conditions with his plan

ENDORSED BY BOXER, BROWNBACK, ELEANOR CLIFT and others, the list is growing.

now quit posting nonsense Sitka, so I can read the auto manual

President McCain 100-1 President Biden 30-1; one of them should hang it up Fred, Biden's passinate description of how dire things are in Iraq and how disasterous they will be if we follow Bush's stay the course that he is turning more and more independents here against the war by running (to Obama's gain)

you go Joe

Biden does indeed make an impassioned plea to bring in diplomacy and take out the troops.

Obama reminds every stop he was against the war from the start and his numbers keep rising.

Biden should turn his passion to nuclear non-proliferation which he is also an expert on, and actually move the debate.

the public has moved past him on Iraq

80.

Imn2Paine
Sun, 07/15/07
12:38 pm


Biden has the passion to lead
-------

I agree with Phil..., Biden has passion of...a drowning man.
Watch other "professionals"...., soon you'll be able to see the same about passion.

I would prefer leader having "common sense" instead.

fly by

JOHN NICHOLS: You are seeing impeachment as a constitutional crisis. Impeachment is the cure for a constitutional crisis.

This gets sent to Keith and should be spread far and wide across the media. 

I'm going to try to stay out of the debate about which leader would be best for Iraq - and leave that up to the Iraqis.

Biden has the passion to lead

<

OK, folks (before I step out for those delicious tastes of the sea on the half shell)

I ain'a up to you alls rhetorical level.  I might be allowed a safer haven after restating that line above as:

Biden has some ability to lead with his passion.

Neither of which should be construed for endorsement of the candidate.

I'll take a dozen, please.  ...and maybe more later, thank you so much. 

now quit posting nonsense Sitka, so I can read the auto manual

If you don't get what I've been saying by now there isn't much point in trying read an auto manual. 

Phil, I'm sorry to read that Clinton can win nor do I understand how your caucus works.  It just boggles my mind that the people who have the best to offer us can lose.

How can she win if she's been down and third in the polls?  Is she rising?  Are people suddenly changing their minds?  Did Bill help her?  If it's true that Obama and Edwards are concerned about us, how can she win?  How?

Edwards, I think, may be concerned for the public.  Obama may just be saying that.

But then, I'm one of those who think the fix has been in for years.............

Biden might be good in the cabinet, very good. 

ENDORSED BY BOXER, BROWNBACK, ELEANOR CLIFT and others, the list is growing.

Three? Reminds me of a real estate person trying to sell a fixer upper. 

What makes us omniscient? Have we a record of omniscience? We are the strongest nation in the world today. I do not believe that we should ever apply that economic, political, and military power unilaterally. If we had followed that rule in Vietnam, we wouldn't have been there. None of our allies supported us. Not Japan, not Germany, not Britain or France. If we can't persuade nations with comparable values of the merit of our cause, we'd better reexamine our reasoning.

Robert McNamara, The Fog Of War

ENDORSED BY BOXER, BROWNBACK, ELEANOR CLIFT and others, the list is growing.

Three? Reminds me of a real estate person trying to sell a fixer upper. 

********************************************************************

Ouch ! I could relate some provocative examples of buyers who wanted to look at "fixer uppers" - then upon viewing them would say "Wow. That house needs a lot of work !"

Biden has some ability to lead with his passion.

He tastes like passion fruit to me.....

I thin of Joe Biden as being too much of a Corporatist for my tastes - kind of the same discomfort I have with Bill Richardson - although there are definite beliefs they both have that are very appealing to me - particularly in the foreign policy arena.

And never fall for the line that there are other interested buyers.

thin = think

I heard that Jim Webb took offense at the crap that Richard Lugar was spouting this morning.

It means Biden is good and may have a shot at the Presidency!

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Fred,

Check your meds.........you got a bad dose of sumpin old boy..........

Biden is the classic DLC NeoDem. He votes just liberal enough on social issues to cover up his corporate toadyism.

William Greider explained how the game is played....

Apostasy is a safe vote for Democrats, at least on financial issues that are obscure and complicated. Rank-and-file voters cannot connect the dots in order to recognize the betrayal; Republicans cannot attack them for their pro-banker votes. And labor-liberal groups--the valiant people who actively oppose these business-banking "reforms" in the legislative arena--will not attack either. This is because the Democrats always offer a billboard agenda at election time--a few important "people issues" like healthcare, Social Security, the environment--to draw a sharp contrast with the wicked Republicans. Other complaints are silenced, especially less familiar ones. Disappointed activists, from organized labor to consumer, civil rights and women's groups, swallow their anger and fall into line. Unlike the right, progressives feel too weak or scattered to propose their own litmus test, much less enforce it.

And in all fairness to DCDems, Republicans have also betrayed the ordinary people who have trusted them. Even when in complete power they just offered up sham debates on patriotism and abortion while delivering deficits and nation building. 

But two wrongs don't make a right. 

Hey Matey. How goes it in yer neck of the woods ?

138.

LZ XRAY
Sun, 07/15/07
2:18 pm

....If we can't persuade nations with comparable values of the merit of our cause, we'd better reexamine our reasoning.

Robert McNamara, The Fog Of War
---------

!!!
It took for him....deaths of tens of thousands young Americans.
Too much of a price!
Twice, triple as much when its NOT taking into account by his power successors.

Conclusion:
The very SYSTEM of power DOES NOT work!

let us take a second and review. Saddam went to war against Iran. He kept a boot heel on sectarian extremists. He held down Shia, pro-Iranian sympathzers. Stomped al Queda.

we went in and took him out

what the h*ll did we think would happen but a strenghtening of all of those held down and oppressed

I question the credentials of anyone who voted for war, and now pretends America is still the holder of truth of that poor country's future.

It will take a leader of true humility to apologize to the world so as to get an International concensus as to how to gather the resources to rebuild that which we have destroyed.; because first they have to apologize to America.

Just leaving is an honest option.

a vote for more funding is disqualification in my book

145.

Sitka
Sun, 07/15/07
2:38 pm


Biden is the classic DLC NeoDem. He votes just liberal enough on social issues to cover up his corporate toadyism.
--------

!!!
Quite precise, imo, charachtereization..., lol.
I would just expand it onto the MAJORITY of our lovely Demos "professionals" (including DNC "NeoDems").

charachtereization = characterization

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Fred,

Check your meds.........you got a bad dose of sumpin old boy..........

I was going to let that one pass, But I had to laugh at the comparison to Little Big Man.

It seems I have become FRED's "perfect reverse barometer."

First we put them in

Then we take them out

Then we put it in

And stir it all about.

I'm thinking that too many people had too much fun at camp.

I always wondered what the object was. 

149.

Phil Specht
Sun, 07/15/07
2:45 pm

...
I question the credentials of anyone who voted for war, and now pretends America is still the holder of truth of that poor country's future.

It will take a leader of true humility to apologize to the world so as to get an International concensus as to how to gather the resources to rebuild that which we have destroyed.; because first they have to apologize to America.

Just leaving is an honest option.
--------

...humility..., yes, but also bravery, a huge one..., like Dean's one some years ago.

153.

Monica Smith
Sun, 07/15/07
2:53 pm

..........
I always wondered what the object was.
------
...lol, they probably forgotten themselves already.
We'll probably have to re-read PNAC.

Phil Specht
Sun, 07/15/07
2:45 pm
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

A great post Phil..........nicely written and very prophetic...............

I think, in short the US is in hot water, and not just iraq.............the countries we have allied oursleves with in that reigon, dependance of foreign oil, the military industrial complex' insatiable appetite for war and weapons, half the population that condones all the above, corrupt political leaders bought off by aforementioned groups and lobbyists........................

This thing will not go away anytime soon....sorry to say..........all the evidence is there.....undisputable facts........whats the answer?  hell if i know...............only that it is not a very promising outlook for our futures, regrettably..........

We havent seen the worst yet Im afraid...........

Phil Specht
Sun, 07/15/07
2:45 pm



"what the h*ll did we think would happen but a strenghtening of all of those held down and oppressed"

every(!) expert in the middle east i heard/read said beforehand that the invasion would play directly into Iran's hands.
..

"I question the credentials of anyone who voted for war, and now pretends America is still the holder of truth of that poor country's future."


i dont just question, i outright dismiss them.

..

"It will take a leader of true humility to apologize to the world so as to get an International concensus as to how to gather the resources to rebuild that which we have destroyed.; because first they have to apologize to America."

first apologize to the citizens of the sovereign state of iraq.

..

"Just leaving is an honest option.

a vote for more funding is disqualification in my book"

agreed.

Snippets and I'm history.  bbl

Two GOP Senators Again Said to Defy Bush on Iraq
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/071507A.shtml
The Washington Post's Shailagh Murray and Robin Wright report: "The Republican revolt against President Bush's war strategy accelerated yesterday as two of the party's most respected voices on national security proposed legislation envisioning a major realignment of US troops in Iraq starting as early as January."

Reid Critical of Bipartisan Plan to Adopt Iraq Study Group Report
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/071507B.shtml
David M. Herszenhorn of The New York Times says, "After the Iraq Study Group report was released last December, offering a blueprint for changing course in Iraq, it rocketed to the top of bestseller lists and more than 1.5 million copies were downloaded from the Internet. But the reader who mattered most, President Bush, quickly shelved it."

Frank Rich | Don't Laugh at Michael Chertoff
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/071507C.shtml
The New York Times columnist Frank Rich says, "Michael Chertoff, President Bush's fallback choice for secretary of Homeland Security after Bernard Kerik, is best remembered for his tragicomic performance during Hurricane Katrina.It was Mr. Chertoff who announced that the Superdome in New Orleans was 'secure' even as the other half of the split screen offered graphic evidence otherwise."

John W. Dean | Harriet Miers's Contempt of Congress
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/071507D.shtml
John W. Dean of FindLaw writes: "The Bush White House is not bluffing with this act of defiance. Rather, the White House truly wants to test, and attempt to expand, presidential power. Indeed, the White House may actually be trying to bait the House Judiciary Committee and the House of Representatives into voting to deem Ms. Miers in contempt of congress."

J. Sri Raman | The Meaning of Lal Masjid
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/071507E.shtml
J. Sri Raman, reporting for Truthout, writes: "The Battle of Lal Masjid came to a bloody end on Wednesday, and Pakistani soldiers pose with bullet-ridden walls as some kind of a trophy on television channels. President Pervez Musharraf has addressed the nation, proclaiming a victory and promising more offensives against 'madrassa' terrorism (or rabid extremism preached and promoted by 'religious schools'). The dust is settling, but the din continues."

Abramoff Investigation Leads to Another Guilty Plea
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/071507F.shtml
The Hill's Mike Soraghan says, "Another Republican environmental activist has pleaded guilty to tax evasion charges uncovered as part of the investigation of now-imprisoned lobbyist Jack Abramoff."
 

130.

Phil Specht
Sun, 07/15/07
2:01 pm

Biden does indeed make an impassioned plea to bring in diplomacy and take out the troops.

Obama reminds every stop he was against the war from the start and his numbers keep rising

================

Why do you think the WAS is so significant. Biden's vote on the resolution had nothing to do with approving shock and awe. I am sure he was upset when Bush kicked out the inspectors.

Where's the documentation or link that Obama's position was any different than Biden's? It is hard for me to believe "Mr Moderate" Obama took a hard line on anything.

Everybody running in our party WAS against the war and IS against the war.

It is a bogus argument.

152.

Sitka
Sun, 07/15/07
2:49 pm

Reply to this
It means Biden is good and may have a shot at the Presidency!

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Fred,

Check your meds.........you got a bad dose of sumpin old boy..........

152.

Sitka
Sun, 07/15/07
2:49 pm

Reply to this
It means Biden is good and may have a shot at the Presidency!

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Fred,

Check your meds.........you got a bad dose of sumpin old boy..........

152.

Sitka
Sun, 07/15/07
2:49 pm

Reply to this
It means Biden is good and may have a shot at the Presidency!

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Fred,

Check your meds.........you got a bad dose of sumpin old boy..........

152.

Sitka
Sun, 07/15/07
2:49 pm

Reply to this
It means Biden is good and may have a shot at the Presidency!

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Fred,

Check your meds.........you got a bad dose of sumpin old boy..........

152.

Sitka
Sun, 07/15/07
2:49 pm

Reply to this
It means Biden is good and may have a shot at the Presidency!

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Fred,

Check your meds.........you got a bad dose of sumpin old boy..........

152.

Sitka
Sun, 07/15/07
2:49 pm

Reply to this
It means Biden is good and may have a shot at the Presidency!

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Fred,

Check your meds.........you got a bad dose of sumpin old boy..........

152.

Sitka
Sun, 07/15/07
2:49 pm

Reply to this
It means Biden is good and may have a shot at the Presidency!

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Fred,

Check your meds.........you got a bad dose of sumpin old boy..........

152.

Sitka
Sun, 07/15/07
2:49 pm

Reply to this
It means Biden is good and may have a shot at the Presidency!

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Fred,

Check your meds.........you got a bad dose of sumpin old boy..........

Oh, dear.  FRED has come down with the 2001 computer syndrome.  What was its name?

http://www.thonline.com/article.cfm?id=165834

Biden made the headline Fred (the llama made front page)

Just a quick hello again after reading the blog:

I thought it was amazing how fast the media and the administation were able to spin the Iraqi police attack on our troops as inflitration by Iran.  The police unit had members of Mocqtada Al Sadr's brigade in its membership.  They did attack our troops, but rather than say Iraqi police unit attacks American Soldiers, it read that Iran operatives engineered an attack via Iraqi police on our soldiers.

Absolutely brilliant!  Iran is the enemy, destroying our efforts in Iraq, so let's divert our attention from the failures of our troops and the ongoing civil war in Iraq to Iran.  It happened so fast, it wasn't until that night (Thursday night?) when Keith Olbermann mentioned it on  his program that I realized how it had been spun.

I mentioned the Auguest issue of Harper's . In the Giuliani article, the Clintons are shown to be corporatists, willing to privatize our economy, much the same way Giuliani is.  They are not the democratic wing of the democratic party, as we all know.  Both Clintons campaigned for George McGovern and learned how to become the third way, that is, in collusion with corporate money and the free market, global economy folks that have so much influence in our government.  The poor American people are really saps when it comes to really knowing what's going on in our economy.  Whatever Happened to Kansas refers to more than just the misguided evangelicals.  The great American middle class is in some ways just as manipulated and deceived.

Thunder and lightning.  BBL 

Ah, yes, now I remember, it was HAL. 

Thanks for the memories. 

152.

Sitka
Sun, 07/15/07
2:49 pm


Check your meds.........you got a bad dose of sumpin old boy..........

================

There isn't much I can take any more for pain

FUTHERMUCKER

I am allergic to narcotic

SOCKSUCKER

the llama made the front page of the Telegraph Herald but the one picture of Obama standing sideways in front of the stripes of the large flag is worth 1000 words.

excellent press, having Congressman Braley host the Senators while we ran the training was a great combination

I just had a few minutes with Bruce and asked him about paygo, which he said was in discussion about rates with Rangel, which I take as a hopeful sign

169.

Monica Smith
============

YK2 syndrome

157.

Michael Ellis
Sun, 07/15/07
3:32 pm

.......
I think, in short the US is in hot water, and not just iraq.............the countries we have allied oursleves with in that reigon, dependance of foreign oil, the military industrial complex' insatiable appetite for war and weapons, half the population that condones all the above, corrupt political leaders bought off by aforementioned groups and lobbyists........................

This thing will not go away anytime soon....sorry to say..........all the evidence is there.....undisputable facts........whats the answer? hell if i know...............only that it is not a very promising outlook for our futures, regrettably..........

We havent seen the worst yet Im afraid...........
----------

Yeah..., not too many here, I guess, would disagree with that assessment.

As for "what's the answer?” I think you’ve already kind of found it:

- we'll have to realign with our allies (old and new);
- we'll have to think and do something about "dependence of foreign oil";
- we'll have to put some restraints on the "military industrial complex'...appetite for war and weapons";
- we'll have to find WHY again and again "corrupt political leaders...have been bought off...by...groups and lobbyists";
- etc;
Thus, hell but you (and almost everyone knows “the answer”). Nothing I think, to be regrettable about or been afraid of. We know what needs to be done!

What we don't know yet that is HOW? HOW to do it!
Well that's a little more complicated, but only because NONE around the Globe have ever done it yet. We are the very first! We'll find it eventually, we already have some hints from our good Doc, and we'll find full and complete answer…., because we have…no other choice..., lol.!

There is something wrong with the mentality of someone who has to resort to such personal contempt to argue political points.
I don't know how anyone can "support" or "agree" with him in public - having the same political beliefs is no excuse.

168 - Hal

174. One time I walked the zoo llama in the San Jose Xmas parade -- she was cute and fun but I was worried every minute she was going to get irritated and spit on me.

168.

I really don't think that most people were aware of the dramatic shift that occurred when people (individual consumers and citizens) claimed the right to hold public officials accountable.  Having cut my teeth, so to speak, on the New England Town Meeting, which was still in force when we first moved here, I thought nothing of bringing suit against a county in Florida for refusing its own stormwater treatement regulations for parking lot runoff.  My suit was dismissed without prejudice because I couldn't prove standing as a person who had actually been injured (I argued that as a taxpayer I would be potentially liable to injury suffered by others).  The county tried to argue that the suit was frivolous and I should pay court costs.  The dismissal without prejudice put an end to that and, despite the county's "victory" they proceeded to enforce their regulations because they had been put on notice of their dereliction.  If someone was harmed by contaminated water in the future, they wouldn't be able to argue that they didn't know. 

You see, civil rights have a much wider range than just getting black people equal rights.  They affect all of us, just like the conditions of labor the slaves contracted for on the plantations.  Just as our debt to the political organization invented by the native peoples of the Americas has just recently been realized, the contributions of Africans have been undervalued.  Our Judeo-Christian heritage and the Greco/Roman traditions aren't really all that supportive of individual rights and co-operation. 

174.

Phil Specht
Sun, 07/15/07
4:10 pm

Reply to this

the llama made the front page of the Telegraph Herald but the one picture of Obama standing sideways in front of the stripes of the large flag is worth 1000 words.

===============
I really don't care if Biden is nominated or not...and I don't he really cares all that much as you think either.

I am not concerned with his liberal voting record, or otherwise, either. What I like is that he is trying to address the need for us to repair the damage Bush's policy does and continues to do.

I understand the harm we've done, but I also understand we have the power to help, just as much. The people of former Iraq believe it too, which is one of the reasons they are apathetic now, because the country was allowed to deteriorate under our watch. They expected so much more from the world's greatest super power.

The insurgency did not pick up steam until a year after the invasion. The sectarian war started when the Sunnis realized with Bush's "democracy" it just meant they were no longer significant.

Go figure.

Is it Judy that used to post about Barbaro? Anyway..long article in Vanity Fair...

http://www.vanityfair.com/fame/features/...

Gone Like the Wind
None of them had ever seen a horse like Barbaro: the speed of a rocket, the spirit of a champion in his eyes. Not owners Gretchen and Roy Jackson, or trainer Michael Matz, or veterinarian Dean Richardson, or jockey Edgar Prado, who rode him to victory at the 2006 Kentucky Derby. After the horse's devastating injury at the Preakness, with the world watching, they would struggle to save him. But Barbaro was betrayed by his own Thoroughbred body.
by Buzz Bissinger August 2007

seashell

a multi-party system with IRV would work very much like the Iowa caucus system

our role is to weed out the ones not ready for prime time

Hillary, Obama, and Edwards all appear to be; divide by three, anyone can win even with two out of three against

throw in a fourth viable candidate be it Richardson, Biden, or Dodd (all actively campaigning and running ads) and the math changes

this is not a winner take all primary state 

part of putting together a race to the White House has to recognize that

I haven't seen any polls here with Hillary above 25% yet, but if five become viable that is enough to win, so the perverse fact is that the better the pack becomes the better Hillary's chances

this shouldn't give her anything but slight momentum for NH but you can bet McAuliffe would claim that it gave her the nomination

132.

seashell
Sun, 07/15/07
2:03 pm
JOHN NICHOLS: You are seeing impeachment as a constitutional crisis. Impeachment is the cure for a constitutional crisis.

========

Yes -- this was the quote of the Moyers show for me too.

97.

Joan* In*Florida
Sun, 07/15/07
1:08 pm

Your letter is wonderful and it's great you got published.

Phil's paygo is hitting the big time.  Howardly to ya, Phil!

"Realistically, however, there is zero chance that Republicans will place their constitutional interest ahead of their partisan interests."

This is from the above article I posted about Miers.  This is why we can't wait for the repugs.  They are lost and losers.  Now, how many dems are placing partisanship ahead of our Con?

We have *2* parties who are so enraged with each other, like horribly behaved children, that they don't seem to care about the Constitution or us.  The are battling for power and now the putz has become so *powerful,* they all want a piece of that action.

It's coming down to the people.  We have to remove them.  How? Can't wait till election time or another attack.  

Whatever happened to citizens' arrest?  Isn't that in the Constitution?

now really have to go 

89.

Imn2Paine
Sun, 07/15/07
12:50 pm

Paine I posted this a long time ago but the thunder god came thru and ate my post. My auto wreck was some years ago but thanks for the thought. I have a friend who is a 911 dispatcher in the Bay Area. She says firefighters are short on grey matter but very long on looks. Just her opinion. I've had ff's in class and they are bright. As for why they are a turn on to women, well they are good lookin' but remember our fairy tales taught us as little girls to wait prettily to be rescued (as in Cinderella, Rapunzel, Snow White, etc etc etc) and that's what ff's and paramedics do is rescue people. My excellent paramedic was a woman.

170.

Phil Specht
Sun, 07/15/07
4:03 pm

Reply to this

http://www.thonline.com/article.cfm?id=1...

Biden made the headline Fred (the llama made front page
============

The horses with the most money betting on them will get the biggest crowds. That's something new. Biden could be another sea biscuit.

I would argue that the insurgency, resistance, picked up steam when they realized that the U.S. had no interest in the welfare of Iraq and, in addition to setting up their permanent military facilities, were keen on making the resources they had captured available to the lowest bidder.  It was then the tribes of Al Anbar realized that the destruction of their water wells and the pipelines they relied on to sustain their three million sheep wasn't an unfortunate accident, but part of the plan to supply the bases with all the modern conveniences.  It was then they realized that the restoration of the marshes was to facilitate industrial agriculture in the south.  It was then the Kurds realized that there was no intention to allow their return to their villages becaue the land clearing Saddam had undertaken would serve international corporations as well.

The first indication that there was widespread discontent was when the mess tent near Mosul was blown up.  The resistance in the Kurdish area was evidence that our "friends" were feeling abused and deceived.  And that was after more than a decade of having been supposedly "protected" by our no-fly zones. 

Annilow, that was I who posted a lot about Barbaro.  thank you

How do I get outta here?  LOL 

Phil, you're repeating conventional wisdom, but I still like Kucinich on the issues.

Voting for either Clinton or Obama would be impossible for me-- they're both bought and paid for by the corporate establishment, Republican lite.

I could vote for Edwards, but his history is suspect.

 No more lesser of evils for me after Kerry!

Photo Credit: Jeremy PortjePresidential hopeful U.S. Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill., gathers his thoughts before speaking at the Iowa First Congressional District Democratic Caucus workshop in Peosta, Iowa, Saturday, July 14, 2007.

180.

Our Judeo-Christian heritage and the Greco/Roman traditions aren't really all that supportive of individual rights and co-operation.
==========

It's all relative.
Interesting posts by you and Pat
You guys write, too many bloggers just cut and paste.

I haven't seen any polls here with Hillary above 25% yet

you might recall that Kerry was in single digits in Iowa, until the last week or so.

191.


clever.

Democratic presidential hopeful, former, North Carolina Sen. John Edwards greets people as he makes an entrance to the Iowa First Congressional District Democratic Caucus workshop in Peosta, Iowa, Saturday, July 14, 2007.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I'm right behind the photographer on this one.

http://www.politico.com/blogs/thecrypt/0...

July 13, 2007
Read More: Homeland Security

Ron Paul warns of staged terror attack

Republican presidential candidate, Rep. Ron Paul, said the country is in "great danger" of the U.S. government staging a terrorist attack or a Gulf of Tonkin style provocation, as the war in Iraq continues to deteriorate.


------------

I think this guy is maybe a little bit of a loose cannon, but if enuf MSM are saying what he's saying, maybe it will keep them from actually doing it.

Huron John 

Actually Kerry was in the 20's picking up supporters from a fading Gephardt before falling to the single digits, and then fired his staff and after totally changing his campaign from one of giving speeches, started taking questions instead, rose into the twenties and got firefighters and with his helicopter tour of the state the Vietnam Vets on board by December. It was probably a three way tie the end of November

conventional wisdom means we are a nation of sheeple if a candidate who has two out of three against them automatically gets the nomination

These are great point which I had forgotten from Tim Horrigan's review of "SICKO"

Although he doesn't belabor the point (although he certainly is not subtle), Moore does show us that the insurance companies and the HMOs are not entrepreneurial businesses. They are in fact acting as a branch of government — a branch of government which is not accountable to anyone. Entrepreneurs provide services: the insurance companies and the HMOs prevent doctors from providing services. (Ironically, the most entepreneurial healthcare provider we meet during this film is a French doctor who runs a 24-hour housecall service.)

PEOSTA, Iowa -- The political spotlight blazed as brightly as the sun on Peosta's Northeast Iowa Community College on Saturday as hundreds of Democratic activists and a handful of presidential campaigns spiced up the campus scene.

Favorite party issues, topped by anger at America's war in Iraq, resounded in campaign speeches delivered in the morning by Delaware Sen. Joe Biden, at lunch by former North Carolina Sen. John Edwards, and at an afternoon reception for Illinois Sen. Barack Obama.

http://www.thonline.com/article.cfm?id=165834

181.

FRED from OR
Sun, 07/15/07
4:22 pm

.....
I understand the harm we've done, but I also understand we have the power to help, just as much. The people of former Iraq believe it too, which is one of the reasons they are apathetic now, because the country was allowed to deteriorate under our watch. They expected so much more from the world's greatest super power.

The insurgency did not pick up steam until a year after the invasion. The sectarian war started when the Sunnis realized with Bush's "democracy" it just meant they were no longer significant.

Go figure.
-----------

Those who have experienced proper upbringing and/or probably were reading "correct" books...lol, those people...HAVE figured it out IN TIME(!), like...Dean for example.
Don't become an OCCUPANT! Is that so hard to figure it out?

If you understand "the harm we've done" you would also understand that to cure that harm now WILL TAKE YEARS if not DECADES! It’ll take years of our absolute ABSENCE from the sight of Iraqi people. Then ONLY things might start to change.
Don't put your thoughts into Iraqi people heads. What Iraqis “expect” from us they are demonstrating now with the bullets, grenades, IEDs and explosives belts.

We may agree or disagree at which exact point "insurgency did...pick up steam" or when "sectarian war started".
What is undisputable, IMO is the fact that war was lost at the point when the very first American soldier’s boot has stepped into Iraqis soil. Should not go too far to figure it out!

I don't know what will happen. It may be intuitive to assume that the three (or four) front runners are fighting for the same voters, but no one knows who those voters' second choice would be.

The front runner seem mostly money and media driven. I don't know if I would call that "obscene" as Biden does. It has been that way or worse forever. But it definitely says that it has the potential to be a house of cards.

Don't know about anyone else, but at this stage of the game for 2004, if anyone told me Kerry would get the banner, I would have said "who?" Not that I think he should have gotten it, but we all supported him nontheless.

I hope this time people will listen to all candidates with open minds. Unfortunately, from the innuendo and disinformation there has been for Biden on this blog - if that is reflective of our party, I am not very hopeful for 2008 either.

2008 could turn into a dead-cat bounce, and a renaissanced Republican "moderate" movement could destroy us for 2012, when Iraq is no longer an issue.

The perfect candidate does not exist, and anyone who believes it is a fool.

Everybody running in our party WAS against the war and IS against the war.

They were against it before they voted for it? Too Kerryesque. 

101.

Somehow, Phil, a black guy standing in front of (behind) some bars (even if they're red and white) is not a positive image.  It may be a good picture, but I don't think it does Obama any good.

We're not talkin' "Cool Hand Luke" here. 

Gabby McNally, of Luana, Iowa, pets her llama Eko "The Obama LLama" as they wait for presidential hopeful U.S. Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill., to arrive at the Iowa First Congressional District Democratic Caucus workshop, Saturday, July 14, 2007, in Peosta, Iowa

~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Gabby was my son's classmate in High School, Obama shook over 1000 hands yesterday. The story isn't the llama it is a Senator who can inspire a college student to take her pet out and march in parades.

201. I find Romney a little scary (as an opponent).

After his speech, Biden said his informal polling makes him think only about 5 to 10 percent of Democrats have selected their candidate at this point.

"I think it's totally wide open," Biden said, describing Democrats' primary campaign as more fluid than any election he's witnessed.

Edwards spoke briefly before taking about 20 minutes of questions from the audience, which included an opportunity to talk about his newly-announced initiative to create 150,000 new jobs in the energy field every year.

Although McAuliffe was there to represent Clinton, whom he praised for her experience, most of his high-energy presentation hammered on the need for Democrats, particularly those in Iowa, to rally for their candidates and the eventual primary winner in order to take back the White House.

Democratic presidential hopeful U.S. Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill., speaks during the Iowa First Congressional District Democratic Caucus workshop in Peosta, Iowa, Saturday, July 14, 2007.

~~~~~~~~~

here you go Monica

Well, with a properly functioning Congress, the President isn't all that important.  After all, even without a properly functioning Congress the country has managed to survive the worst president in history.

202.

Sitka
Sun, 07/15/07
4:56 pm

Everybody running in our party WAS against the war and IS against the war.

They were against it before they voted for it? Too Kerryesque.
---------

...lol,

Btw, I'd like to find the list of those 17 (21?) Demos (and Reps?) who voted against initial war authorithation bill.

How to find that list, anybody?

I'm right behind the photographer on this one.

It looks just like you! 

Political Television by Sheri Divers
Promoted Sunday, 07/15/07 @ 9:01 am. Published Sunday, 07/15/07 @ 9:00 am

This Week (ABC):...

Then, in an EXCLUSIVE interview, Republican Sens. John Warner of Virginia and Richard Lugar of Indiana react to the report and discuss their new amendment that would force the White House to begin planning a change of course in Iraq....

=========
while we on this blog are nitpicking about which Democrats voted on the Iraq Resolution, as if (that 2002 vote were the deciding issues for 2008) these moderate REPUBLICANS are talking about "revising" (overturning) the Iraq resolution.

That's what we should be doing instead of nitpicking. We need to look forward. It seems a little 2006 success has turned this blog into a Tower of Babel - not a good omen for the long term success of our party. We can do better.

The perfect candidate does not exist

Another great campaign slogan for Biden. 

After his speech, Biden said his informal polling makes him think only about 5 to 10 percent of Democrats have selected their candidate at this point.

Biden's "informal" polling the last time he ran forced him out -- no wait -- it was plagerism.

I reiterate---

begin planning a change of course in Iraq.

That's a gross obfuscation!!!!! 

 a little 2006 success

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

the greatest election landslide in an off year in the history of the country

you would think the voters would get more for that than praise for two old Republicans

209.

Monica Smith
============

barely survived...HUD subsidy cuts have not yet been restored, in spite of Katrina.

But good post - I agree we should focus on extending goodwill across the aisle, to get 2/3 while we take our time preparing for the impeachment trial down the road.

It is the best bet for changing course with the occupation ASAP IMHO

Tripe worthy of Bush himself. 

216.

Phil Specht
Sun, 07/15/07
5:23 pm

the greatest election landslide in an off year in the history of the country...

=========

greatest landslide? I hope not - the pundits saw it coming 6 months ahead and we are clinging to the Senate with the skin of our teeth.

It was a success though - don't want to be a party pooper.

216.

Phil Specht
===========

Another thing you conveniently overlook, too, Phil, is that much of that success in attaining a majority was by the pushing of moderates and blue dogs in red states, (i.e. Rahm Emanuel's shenanigans) something we treat as an anathema, an abomination, on this blog.

The country is not all that liberal on every issue, and we cannot make them be, by mandate, either.

the voters did their job

now Democrats have to do theirs

212.

Sitka
Sun, 07/15/07
5:18 pm

The perfect candidate does not exist

Another great campaign slogan for Biden.
-----------

Is that Biden words?
Not surprised.

He thinks that non-existence of the "perfect candidate" should play to his advantage..., lol. Plus to the rest he is a cheap guy.
Sad, America can do better then this..., lol.

Someone should explain to him that there is some perfect candidate...., we, Americans, themselfes...., therefore he may calmly retire...lol. Americans don't need him!


Hey again, please, anyone help me with the list of those who voted against initial "war authorization bill".

fall asleep election night Fred

State Legislatures, Governors, House, Senate

that was a voter referendum of historic proportion

and a rejection of the party in power during a war

the voters spoke

begin planning a change of course in Iraq.

That's a gross obfuscation!!!!!

It reminds me of the old Cherokee in The Outlaw Josey Wales being told to "endeavor to persevere."

I wore this, uh, frock coat to Washington, before the war. We wore them because we belonged to the five civilized tribes. We dressed ourselves up like Abraham Lincoln. You know we got to see the Secretary of the Interior. He said "Boy you sure look civilized." He congratulated us and he gave us medals for looking so civilized. We told him about how our land had been stolen and our people were dying. When we finished he shook our hand and said "Endeavor to persevere"... They took our pictures and the newspapers said "Indians vow to endeavor to persevere." We thought about it for a long time. "Endeavor to persevere." And when we had thought about it long enough, we declared war on the Union.

after my hubby and I finally got to see jim webb on msnbc, we need at least 50 other senators with the gall to support our troops.

JIM WEBB IS MY SENATOR, AND MY FRIEND.

JOHN WARNER OF VA WILL NOT RUN AGAIN. HE GOT ELECTED, NOT CAUSE HE WAS A FORMER SEC OF THE NAVY, CAUSE HE WAS MARRIED TO A BLOATED LIZ TAYLOR.

SO MARK WARNER NEEDS TO STEP FORWARD. COMEON MARK, HARRY ASKED ME TO TELL U THIS.

Iraq War Resolution Senate Roll Call 

Grouped By Vote Position

There is no Presidential candidate among those, why?

23 Senators voted against the resolution: 21 Democrats, 1 Republican, and 1 Independent.

Daniel Akaka (D-HI)
Jeff Bingaman (D-NM)
Barbara Boxer (D-CA)
Robert Byrd (D-WV)
Lincoln Chafee (R-RI)
Jon Corzine (D-NJ)
Kent Conrad (D-ND)
Mark Dayton (D-MN)
Dick Durbin (D-IL)
Russ Feingold (D-WI)
Bob Graham (D-FL)
Daniel Inouye (D-HI)
Jim Jeffords (I-VT)
Ted Kennedy (D-MA)
Patrick Leahy (D-VT)
Carl Levin (D-MI)
Barbara Mikulski (D-MD)
Patty Murray (D-WA)
Jack Reed (D-RI)
Paul Sarbanes (D-MD)
Debbie Stabenow (D-MI)
Paul Wellstone (D-MN)
Ron Wyden (D-OR)

linda b he fell just a few votes short, and Republicans will rue that vote next November

Republicans can never again say they support the troops.

228.

Sitka
Sun, 07/15/07
5:41 pm
----
Yeap.., Thanks.

Your profanity was midirected. It was Michael Ellis who told you to take your meds. 

Republicans can never again say they support the troops.

They've never let the truth impede what they say. Unfortunately, for decades Democrats have been doing a lousey job of making them pay for it. 

phil u are the best, and u are my mentor. applause.

223.

Phil Specht
===========

Do you have anything against being wary of complacency...?
There was a major issue working against Bush and his knee-jerk party faithful, but There was a lot of luck too, for Democrats, like the Foley affair, and a couple of other 11th hour embarrassments for Republicans. We cannot always rely on htat kind of luck, Phil. We need to be practical.

The country still hates Congress. There is no revolution there. Biden, Boxer, and a others can be uniters with moderate Republicans and get something done. We cannot afford to risk being labeled "obstructionists" to a bipartisan change of direction in the Iraq region. Voters and independents won't appreciate it.

NAYs ---23 

Paul Wellstone (D-MN)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Paul would have made a great President. I treasure the hours I spent with Wellstone

I am still not sure that I believe it: The Iraqi parliament is going on vacation during the month of August.

The White House offers the lame excuse that, after all, Baghdad is hot in August – sometimes 130 degrees.

May I ask a follow-up?

How much hotter do you suppose it is if you are a wearing a helmet, full body armor, carrying ammunition and walking foot patrols through Baghdad?

The last I heard, that is how American troops are spending their August in Iraq.

For me, this does it.

God help the Iraqi people because there is not much America can do to help a government that leaves Americans dying in the streets while the parliament escapes to cooler climes.
Does this mean we should pull out immediately?

No. A sudden withdrawal could set the entire region aflame. The truth is there are no good options left. But from here on, we need to put aside the dream of building a democracy in Iraq and focus solely on what is in our national interest.

It won't be pretty, but for all our good intentions, about all we can do now is try to contain this mess, pull our troops back from the middle of this civil war, and concentrate instead on the terrorist threat that this country faces around the world.
As for what kind of government Iraq needs, let their parliament figure it out. They can

phil, can u tell us about your travels with paul w?

The country still hates Congress.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

They will indeed punish Democrats who won't even attempt to deliver on ending the war.

231.

Sitka
Sun, 07/15/07
5:47 pm

Reply to this
172. FRED from OR

Your profanity was midirected. It was Michael Ellis who told you to take your meds.
======================

That is correct - he did, but my rage was not wasted on you for repeating it.

Mike never used my disability as an insult, so your statement was a throwback to when you did - and you did.

I am very disappointed with Mike.

Telling someone to "take your meds" is a common putdown having nothing to do with you. Ellis probably doesn't even know about how pitiful you are. 

But if you keep posting about it enough, in time the entire world will. 

238.

Phil Specht
Sun, 07/15/07
6:00 pm

Reply to this

The country still hates Congress.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

They will indeed punish Democrats who won't even attempt to deliver on ending the war.
=========================

That's a cop out, Phil. Even the Republicans know that by now [that they too will get punished]if they don't change direction.

It is a long-term problem for Congress and Democrats can be perceived as inheriting a do-nothing, money-chasing institution, manipulated by political arm-twisting, and did nothing to change that institution.

I remember living in Newark, New Jersey when the Italian-American mayor went to prison for ten years. African-Americans took over and the first thing they tried to do was sell-off the watershed property for development. 40 years later the last African-American mayor is being indicted for another laundry list.

Institutions become corrupt, and sometimes, the ethnic group pr party that inherits it does not change that corruption. They inherit the corruption. This is what people fear, and rightly so.

linda b

Mark Warner would make a great Senator. One of the reasons I am involved with politics is because many are really good people and fun to know.

It takes a special person to put your life on hold and campaign. No one pays you to be a candidate. It costs. Just running is a sacrifice for the greater good.

I got to know Wellstone when he came to Iowa to put out feelers for running for President, and I was in leadership and got him to do events for me, but I knew his history because one of my local stations is a MN station in Rochester. He did a "listening post" tour for me and a District event, and another time we had dinner together. He backed Bill Bradley and I set up an event as a multi-county fund raiser and he came and was the keynote speaker. Howard Dean did a "listening post" event for me too. But don't place too much on emphasis on me, these are two men who came to Iowa to change the direction of the country, and I just assisted them. I'm pretty sure it is why Mark Warner, Joe Biden, and Barack Obama were in town here too.

but Paul was special, linda  ... Howardly

I miss him, and right now the country does too.

new thread

240.

Sitka
Sun, 07/15/07
6:09 pm

Reply to this
239. FRED from OR

Telling someone to "take your meds" is a common putdown having nothing to do with you. Ellis probably doesn't even know about how pitiful you are.
===================

That may be true, but that frame of reference (of coming from you) made it a stab at my disability - your past remarks carry responsible for my perceiving it in that frame of reference. Repeating the statement does not mean you did not make it.

Had I seen mike's post first, I might have tempered my reaction, but still would have been upset and pissed at both of you.

I used to rely on narcotics to take the edge off reactions but no longer can. I get acute and chronic violent digestive pain and muscular cramping that continues for months. Over the counter pain reliever, the same thing, Tylenol is worse for my muscles. One pill can mess me up for months.

Valium is the only thing so far I found I can tolerate and only take it when I really need something.

Frankly, FRED, I don't give a damn.

Fred,

Take a break from Biden(catchy phrase)..........here, I prrsent to you george carlin at USC in 1977............remember when we all could laugh at each other?  for those days again.......get off the blog for awhile............take a break.........

http://www.jonhs.net/freemovies/george_carlin_on_location.htm

It is appalling to learn that al-Qaeda has rebuilt its operating capability to a level not seen since just before the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks.  Even now, President Bush would not admit defeat and the fact that this war is a disaster.  The Bush administration has yet to recognize the Iraq war is a complete failure and mistake.  There are more critical issues that affecting the lives of millions of americans and people world wide that our president is not taking actions against. Now the war has proven to be a failure and is causing more violence, terror and poverty in this world.  According to the Borgen Project, it only takes $19 billion dollars annually to eradicate world hunger and poverty.  However, our government has already spent more than $450 billion dollars over this fruitless war in Iraq.  It is time for the Bush Administration to take a real interest in the lives of the American people as well as people who are in desperate needs around the world.  Stop the lies and stop poverty now.  Put away the arrogance and put the needs of the people before political gains.

bbl but stopping by to post this from Frommer's blog about passports:

http://www.frommers.com/blog/
Jul 17, 2007
Hot news from the world of passports
. . . And the news is: that confusion continues to reign triumphant.

-snip to-

There's too much ongoing activity in Congress (speeches declaring outrage over Homeland Security's dithering) to permit a definite statement of what you will need in the months ahead. But two things are clear:

1) If you don't have a certified copy of your birth certificate, get one. It's probable that a birth certificate requirement will be imposed at least on an interim basis.

2) And second, get a passport. Ultimately, we're all going to need one (and self-respecting terrorists will get them, too).

==========

Heck of a job, Condi -- keep up those great photo ops.