Michel Moore first here!

Howard Dean is first.

thanks sheri for putting this up.
I emailed wolf to appologize to the citizens of this country for lying to us about the war.
being a whore for the establishment.
I am waiting mr. blitzer.

Some "Independent" Democrat creates a new vocabulary:

"Winning";
Senatorial "responsibilities";
"Best for our nation";
"To lead";
"To be guided by".

http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/07/10/u...

....
But Connecticut independent, Sen. Joseph Lieberman, continued his longtime support of Bush's war strategy on the Senate floor Tuesday, saying that "American and Iraqi security forces are winning." The 2000 Democratic vice presidential candidate accused lawmakers of bowing to opinion polls and upcoming elections.

"Our responsibilities in this chamber ultimately do not allow us to be guided by our frustrations or even by public opinion polls when we respectfully believe that those public opinion polls do not reflect what is best for our nation," said Lieberman. "We were elected to lead."
...
http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/07/10/u...

wow the time thing is messed up, I just jumped ahead of annilow's post and he was no. 2. twilight zone time.

yea, cnn is showing mccain and lie-berman, no show of boxer and the ones against the war.
more crap reporting by cnn.
lie us into the war. lie us during the war.

turn on cspan 2 and see the whole enchilada.

someone shut lir-bermans trap with tape. he is a disgrace.

I now jumped ahead of formers no. 5 post. maybe I am just lucky.

wOOT!

And, as Michael Moore has said, Al Gore has been right on all the issues all along.


Time for a COOL change,
Gore
2008


our Local paper, The Reporter, printed a photo of my rear window with jc's bumper sticker "Imagine Gore Instead of War" in this weeks issue. :)

This is my response to the supposed reporter, Goldber and the LA Times,
jgoldberg@latimescolumnists.com
letters@latiimes.com

In regards to Mr. Goldberg's article "Live Earth: Dead on arrival", or maybe it should have had first "In my dreams,...". Because, just like a child who tears down another and adds "just kidding" as if that takes away the meaning of everything they just said. Mr. Goldberg acts like that same child. After ripping through a list of lies and put downs, resorting to name calling in what one can only perceive as a jealous tirade, he then says "But, hey, I don't want to bash Live Earth, which is not to be confused with Live Aid (1985, dedicated to eradicating African famine) or Live 8 (2005, promising to relieve African nations' debts). The avowed point of Live Earth was to … can you guess? That's right: raise awareness about global warming."

Yes, indeed. Live Earth is definitely not Live 8, because Live Earth was so well planned and executed, that it already has had success in which it was aimed at. Where as Live 8 was to try to get the attention of Leader of Countries with promises to aid Africa and how many years later they are still battling with those promises for the actual monies to be given. And where we are now, whether you hate to admit it or not, are talking about it and giving more awareness to the problem and folks like even Ann Curry who admitted that only this past week did she finally start replacing her light bulbs with the efficient florescent bulbs. Or the man who tossed his beer bottle for the first time in a recycle bin. Showing examples how not everyone had already taken the steps they can. After all, if you have an infection, you treat it, you don't let it run rampant. Or would you insist your loved one didn't really have an infection and stop them from taking their antibiotic?

Find the cure.

Linda

his article

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/sund...

hey linda, thanks for posting on raisingkaine. you are the best.

do u have a pix of the reporter picture?

GO TO SICKO, YOU WILL SEE HOW RIGHT MOORE IS.

A VERY SAD STATE OF AFFAIRS.

LINDA, golberg is a laugh. a lazy neoconservative who when said he was of age to sign up for iraq he said he couldn't go cause he has a family. oh really, and our troops don't. he is just a neo setup like david brooks

and cnn is promoting moore cause he is going to be on again via tape today.

whores. kind of like the rethug senator who is on the madams list in d.c..

putzes.

6.

former
Tue, 07/10/07
12:19 pm


http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/07/10/u...

........
"Our responsibilities in this chamber ultimately do not allow us to be guided by our frustrations or even by public opinion polls when we respectfully believe that those public opinion polls do not reflect what is best for our nation," said Lieberman. "We were elected to lead."
...
-------------

The very essence of the FAILED "Representative Democracy" model IS in that statement!

Hi,

Will be seeing Sicko today.  BBL 

The day I begin taking my music listening cues from Johah Goldberg is the day I go for my appointment to see Dr. Kevorkian.  I mean, the primary quality I demand in a music critic is that he or she have taste.

Third aircraft carrier steaming to M.E.  Stop the war in Iraq. No war Iran. Spend the $ for single payer Health Care.          Impeach . Vote. If you do not like who is running , then run, or write in MM !

busy day,   quick posts.

Gonzales Was Told of FBI Violations
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/071007J.shtml
John Solomon of the Washington Post reports: "As he sought to renew the USA Patriot Act two years ago, Attorney General Alberto R. Gonzales assured lawmakers that the FBI had not abused its potent new terrorism-fighting powers. 'There has not been one verified case of civil liberties abuse,' Gonzales told senators on April 27, 2005. Six days earlier, the FBI sent Gonzales a copy of a report that said its agents had obtained personal information that they were not entitled to have. It was one of at least half a dozen reports of legal or procedural violations that Gonzales received in the three months before he made his statement to the Senate intelligence committee, according to internal FBI documents released under the Freedom of Information Act."
 

linda b, hoWDY LADY!

Yes, I guess the Goldberg point is that someone writing as he does is not very progressive. Still amazing that he stooped as low as he did to put down everyone associated with the event-in the manner he did, just because it represented other than his primary interests. Thank goodness he stopped short of the sick and young children watching and asking their parents to be responsible and act. And heaven forbid, the concert being shown like a live concert in Israel. It will be too late for our childrent to act, WE HAVE TO ACCEPT RESPONSIBILITY AND ACT. We know the facts, we must act responsibily.

Yes, I am looking forward to seeing the movie, but coming out last week and having had 4 event, plus helping someone else out, I had no time to sit down and watch the movie. But I will this week.


No, they didn't post the picture on line. The article from the page is there, but no pictures. :( Sorry, I would have loved to show you all.

Funny, on July 4th when I was passing out fliers and getting signatures, one couple from Colorado said, Santa Fe is really for Al Gore. She was supporting Hillary and then asked if I thought he would run. Then, of all things, I had to park in a parking lot because of how crowded the city is right now and she said "I even saw a car with a license plate that said 4ALGORE". We laughed and told her that was ours. The husband then asked if he could sign my petition.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/07/10/u...

........
"Our responsibilities in this chamber ultimately do not allow us to be guided by our frustrations or even by public opinion polls when we respectfully believe that those public opinion polls do not reflect what is best for our nation," said Lieberman. "We were elected to lead."
...
-------------

After IMPOSING their belief on their nation, how then those "responsible chamber members" are DIFFERENT from any other DICTATOR (including Saddam Hussein)..., lol?

15.

Tom Bearse

LOL

19.

former
Tue, 07/10/07
12:41 pm

Reply to this

http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/07/10/u...

...said Lieberman. "We were elected to lead."
...
-------------

...To lead but not to rule!

On the same page as the pictures of my rear window and the
"Imagine Gore Instead of War" bumper sticker, is a section called, "Santa Fe Eavesdropper"

LOL...one of the comments overheard this week said this:

"Two Tourists: Excuse me, do all the stores here close for siesta?"
Woman: No, you're still in the United States"

overheard at the Plaza.

are we allowed to stone senators?

goldberg , how in the h did he get a column? equal opportunity?

Charles Barkley:

http://www.al.com/news/birminghamnews/index.ssf?/base/news/1184057557147500.xml&coll=2&thispage=2

A crowd that was already buzzing waiting for Obama's arrival, got grew more revved when NBA Hall of Famer and Leeds native, Charles Barkley, took the stage to urge them to support Obama.

"The one thing you will hear is that this man is a uniter. You've got too many dividers," Barkley said. "Politics are broken. We need somebody who can fix it. Please listen to what Barack's got to say today, please."

...

One vote Obama won over in Birmingham was Christi Haynes of Birmingham, a mother of three who came to Monday's fundraiser not quite convinced Obama was the real thing.

"I was undecided coming in," Haynes said...

"I'm going to vote for him. I like it that he comes out and says it straight. ...

three navy seals from norfolk were killed over the weekend in iraq.
why are the navy personnel being used on the ground in iraq?

linda b wrote "goldberg , how in the h did he get a column?"

That's easy.  Lucianne Goldberg is his mother.

* rdorgan
Tue, 07/10/07
12:52 pm

Uniter not divider....where have we heard that before? Hmmmm.....seems to be the narrative Obama supporters are pitching these days. Well, it won't lead to progressive legislation. When the right doesn't want universal health care and progressives do, you aren't going to get it by "splitting the difference".

My view is that we've got to promote progressive, pragmatic solutions which the majority of people support. Elect people (like Edwards) who makes the pitch and then build the majority (not a united consensus) to move forward. Obama isn't making the case for anything but a vacuous unity.

BTW, Obama is following his mentor's advice. Joe Lieberman also calls himself a uniter, not a divider.

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2007/07/10/activist_endorses_obama/

By James Pindell, Globe Correspondent  |  July 10, 2007

One of the biggest liberal fund-raisers in the country, who also is among the most important Democratic activists in New Hampshire, yesterday endorsed Barack Obama for the Democratic presidential nomination.

Gary Hirshberg, chief executive of Stonyfield Farm in Londonderry, said Obama was the one candidate who could appeal to both Democrats and Republicans alike.

"This guy can heal a divided nation," Hirshberg said on a conference call with reporters. Stonyfield is an organic dairy specializing in yogurt and known for environmental activism.

The endorsement came a week after Hirshberg held a house party for Obama at his Concord home. He said that his choice came down to Obama and John Edwards.

He said that he had a long conversation with Elizabeth Edwards yesterday.

"This is not to be interpreted as a negative on John Edwards," Hirshberg said, but he added that what "moved my needle" in recent days was finishing Obama's book "The Auducity of Hope," watching Obama interact over dinner with the soccer team Hirshberg coaches, and hearing Republicans say they are interested in Obama.

"I thought that no matter how tortured I was [in deciding between Obama and Edwards], I was not going to sit on the fence," Hirshberg said.

Previously, Hirshberg endorsed former Iowa governor Tom Vilsack for president, but Vilsack dropped out of the race. In 2004, he endorsed former Vermont governor Howard Dean.

...

Indy wrote "My view is that we've got to promote progressive, pragmatic solutions which the majority of people support. Elect people (like Edwards) who makes the pitch and then build the majority (not a united consensus) to move forward. Obama isn't making the case for anything but a vacuous unity."

What are the issues on which you agree with Edwards and disagree with Obama?

http://www.news-record.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070710/NEWSREC0101/70709025/1005/NEWSREC0101

High staph infection rates in hospitals stun public health officials

The study, released Sunday evening in advance of a San Jose health care convention, screened patients in hospitals and long-term care homes to detect MRSA, or methicillin-resistant Staphylococcus aureus, which is not only resistant to common antibiotics, but kills patients at 2 1/2 times the rate of more drug-susceptible staph germs....
Full story: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cg...

European Health Care Not Moore's Utopia

LONDON, United Kingdom (AP) -- When Penny Campbell fell ill after a routine surgery in March 2005, the 41-year-old mother did what many Britons are instructed to do to avoid clogging up the country's emergency rooms: She called a telephone help line staffed by doctors.


With worsening symptoms over the next four days, Campbell spoke to six doctors and saw two in person. When she was finally diagnosed with a blood infection, it was too late: Hours later, Campbell died from multi-organ failure.


A government report blames a "major systems failure" in the socialized health service's ability to access care outside doctors' normal working hours. The case stands in contrast to the praise lavished on Europe's socialized health systems in Michael Moore's new documentary, "Sicko," opening nationally this weekend.....Full story: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cg...

Sen. Joseph Lieberman, continued his longtime support of Bush's war strategy on the Senate floor Tuesday, saying that "American and Iraqi security forces are winning."

Where's a straight jacket when you need one?

Tom Bearse
Tue, 07/10/07
1:01 pm

Well, there are many areas of agreement. But one is health care. Obama, in his attempt to placate the right does NOT have a universal plan. Edwards does. And Edwards plan ingeneously has a gov't. option which could outcompete the private insurers.

Second, Edwards is against coal to liquid plans. Obama has caved to the coal interests (think: peabody) in Illinois to entertain the idea which he only recently backed off. The problem is that he was only too willing to completely compromise too soon. And that will be what he does as a President.

Sitka
Tue, 07/10/07
1:04 pm

LOL!! Hey, he's a uniter not a divider!!

One of the biggest liberal fund-raisers in the country, who also is among the most important Democratic activists in New Hampshire, yesterday endorsed Barack Obama for the Democratic presidential nomination.

We who were with Dean back in 2004 learned the hard way that endorsements don't mean squat. 

Bloggie broken again? Either that or I suddenly can read the future!!

I didn't watch any of Live Earth, becuz frankly, the music, I thought, was awful and played down to the tastelessness of Americans' mania for bad music.  JMO.  But I'm a snob...classical, Latin, opera and tango music for me.  Were there any good "Dueling Banjo" type acts on?   Big Band Swing?  We're not all 35 anymore yet on the rare occasion I go to a singles dance function, the 50 and 60 year olds are dancing to horrible loud rock music, 3 feet apart, not even connecting on any level with their partners.

I grew up listening to classical, light opera and the Everly Bros.  LOL  And then married a composer of operas and symphonies.  

As I said, I'm a snob. Or maybe I just have very good taste in music. :-) 

Al certainly gets an A for effort, but that's it.  I even got the shivers when the candidates chose their songs....good grief. Try fewer words and some musical instrumentation.  A little Beethoven or a rousing Bruchner symphony would be quite palatable. Or change it around so you don't get stuck.  Some crowds are more sophisticated and would perhaps like something other than "Sting" or "Bite" or "Welts" or whatever they're called. Was there any bandoneon music?

All over Europe, especially Italy, I heard great opera being played in small trattorias..and the owners singing opera.

Compared to other parts of the world, this culture has poor taste in so many things and we over-consume. 

Yes, I'm a snob and can admit it.  And opinionated. 

I would have loved to hear Chinese music or the digererdoo (sp) or sitar.  We learn and open our minds by  being exposed to other cultures, especially if we learn their language.  But no,  everyone has to play American music at the expense of losing their own beautiful musical heritage.  

We have exported enuf bibles and bad music to create non-questioning mediocrity thruout the world.

I think I'm a bit cranky today.  Neighbor has been starting to hammer every effing day at 8 and I'm noctural. 

All in all, however, life is very good. 

3606

"The one thing you will hear is that this man is a uniter. You've got too many dividers," Barkley said. "Politics are broken. We need somebody who can fix it. Please listen to what Barack's got to say today, please."

At first I thought any Democrat who parrots Bush's discredited theme must be nuts....then I remembered that Charles Barkley is a Republican. 

Indy wrote "Obama, in his attempt to placate the right does NOT have a universal plan. Edwards does. And Edwards plan ingeneously has a gov't. option which could outcompete the private insurers."

Obama supports universal healthcare.  Are you saying you're disappointed that the plan proposed by Obama does not go as far as Edwards? 

Gore!

Bloggie broken again? Either that or I suddenly can read the future!!  

+++

Indy Steve -

You're so modest.

I hope you all know you can still catch the Live Earth Concerts online.

Black Eyed Peas that wrote their song for Al, SOS, is here, along with....da, da, da, DA....THIS IS SPINAL TAP...REUNITED! LOL

This link is for the London concert in which you'll find the ones I mentioned, including Foofighters.

You can fast forward through the concert listing to find the groups or song you want to here. The site is AMAZING.

http://entimg.msn.com/i/ExperienceData/p...

Or find any concert, song, group, that you want here
http://liveearth.msn.com/le/video?ocid=s...

I happened to enjoy mosst of the music myself and all the stars coming out in support......or even all the commercials they were air.......so well done to see what actually can be made for advertisements on product or cause. And you can skip what you don't enjoy as rarely everything pleases everybody.

Choose and enjoy what you wish.

Tom,

No, I'm saying that Obama's plan does not provide universal coverage. He may say he supports universal healthcare but when he crafts a plan that is voluntary and doesn't provide it, you have to admit his actions betray his words. same thing with coal. He SAYS things that aren't reflected in his proposals. That is the difference between edwards and Obama.

And it's one reason people at the moment are being fooled.

Movie trailer - "Idiocracy"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBO1f6R2l...

Obama does not support Universal Health Care.

Indy wrote: "[Obama] may say he supports universal healthcare but when he crafts a plan that is voluntary and doesn't provide it, you have to admit his actions betray his words. Same thing with coal. He SAYS things that aren't reflected in his proposals. That is the difference between Edwards and Obama."

The Edwards and Obama plans strike me as different means to an end.

"I was a Republican - until they lost their minds." -- Charles Barkley, NBA Hall of Famer.

Linda*in*SFNM
Tue, 07/10/07
1:15 pm

But he SAYS he does...I guess that's good enough for some people. Not me. Look at the details. That is where the devil lies.

Now he SAYS he doesn't support coal to liquids. But, of course, he did when he was just Senator from Illinois. Now that he has a larger constituency, hmmmm......trust is an important part of my vote.

"The one thing you will hear is that this man is a uniter. You've got too many dividers," Barkley said. "Politics are broken. We need somebody who can fix it. Please listen to what Barack's got to say today, please."

At first I thought any Democrat who parrots Bush's discredited theme must be nuts....then I remembered that Charles Barkley is a Republican.

+++

Sitka -

In all due respect, you're wrong.

Barkley is a Independent.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Barkley

...

Politics

Barkley spoke for many years of his Republican Party affiliation and in 1995 considered running as a G.O.P. candidate for Alabama's governorship in the 1998 election.[51] In 2006 he changed his political stance saying:

“I was a Republican until they lost their minds, "The word 'conservative' means 'discriminatory,' practically. It's a form of political discrimination. What do the Republicans run on? Against gay marriage and for a war that makes no sense. A war that was based on faulty intelligence. That's all they ever talk about. That and immigration. Another discriminatory argument for political gain.[52]

...

he said he is an independent, not a Democrat as previously reported. "The Republicans are full of it", Barkley said. "The Democrats are a little less full of it."[54]

...

Tom Bearse
Tue, 07/10/07
1:20 pm

That's where you are wrong. I suggest you look at them more closely before making false statements. And about coal????

Moore/Morrissey2008

#49   Linda B.           I loved it when I saw him say that , I fell off the couch.

Well, talking of speaking to what one wants to hear (red-meat) -- Obama oft serves something else:

http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/election2008/2007-07-09-obama-usat_N.htm?csp=34

Posted 9h 49m ago 

The technique is winning the Illinois senator some attention and helping stoke broad interest in his candidacy but could hurt him among black voters, campaign observers say.

Campaign spokesman Robert Gibbs says Obama is not going to "pander his way" through the race.

His positions "may or may not be the priorities of every group, but he feels like he needs to say them anyway. Some of them may not be what is in a traditional political playbook" for Democrats, Gibbs says.

...

Some of Obama's recent statements and where he made them:

•Asked about AIDS at a minority issues forum June 28 at Howard University, Obama said homosexuality still carries "a stigma" in black communities. "It has been an aspect of sometimes a homophobia, that we don't address this issue as clearly as it needs to be," he said.

•At a National Education Association meeting last week in Philadelphia, Obama reiterated his support for merit pay for teachers. The teachers union says merit pay forces teachers to compete rather than cooperate and doesn't solve the underlying problem of low pay.

•A couple of days before Father's Day, at Mount Moriah Baptist Church in Spartanburg, S.C., the senator spoke about the responsibilities of fathers: "There are a lot of men out there who need to stop acting like boys, who need to realize that responsibility does not end at conception, who need to know that what makes you a man is not the ability to have a child but the courage to raise one."

•In Detroit, Obama scolded the auto industry for failing to develop "clean cars" and unveiled a plan for tough fuel-efficiency requirements.

Obama's approach in some ways recalls Bill Clinton's "Sister Souljah moment" in June 1992. Speaking to Jesse Jackson's Rainbow Coalition, Clinton called the black singer's comments about killing white people "filled with hatred" and compared her to onetime Ku Klux Klan leader David Duke.

Clinton was making clear that "he could be tough on blacks," says Ronald Walters, director of the African American Leadership Institute at the University of Maryland. "He was reaching out … to alienated whites and Democrats, trying to give them a reason to vote for him."

Walters says Obama's goal and means are similar. "I have to question to what extent he'll be able to capture the lion's share of the black vote with that particular strategy," Walters says. He also says Obama "has no choice" if he wants to win: He must counter the assumption that because he's black, he'll have a "wild progressive agenda."

Obama drew 40% black support last month in Gallup's annual Minority Relations poll, followed closely by New York Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton at 38%.

Thomas Mann, a government scholar at the Brookings Institution, says Obama makes his points "in a very calm, measured way" that reinforces his broader message that "the time has come to try to bridge some differences and deal with real problems confronting people."

Mann also says Obama balances his edgier ideas with words his audiences can embrace: In Detroit, an offer to help automakers with retiree health costs. In Philadelphia, a promise on merit pay that "I'm not going to do it to you, I'm going to do it with you." In Spartanburg, acknowledgment that the government needs to do more to help black men get education and jobs.

...

Obama has a history of taking messages directly to the source. Raised by a single mother from the age of 2, when his father went home to Africa, Obama addressed the problem of absentee fathers at his own Chicago church in 2005. After a skewering later that year by online activists, he asked them directly to be more civil and less judgmental.

Obama's "small lapses" from the party line this year "prevent him from being a generic Democrat," says Will Marshall, president of the centrist Progressive Policy Institute. "That makes him very interesting to a lot of people who might otherwise tune him out: independents, moderates, swing voters and would-be Republican defectors."

Indy wrote "That's where you are wrong. I suggest you look at them more closely before making false statements. And about coal????"

I'd like to get to that in a minute.  I'm not intimately familiar with both plans so I need a little more education.  May I assume that you're satisfied with a plan that does not involve single payer?

well, sorry to rock the boat here --

-- speaking of boats, I'm off for my walk to watch the scullers skim along the Charles River

(ah, that's the main river coursing through downtown Boston and has no affiliation with Charles Barkley)

I see that we're being treated to repeats of all thObomadoration posts.

49. Yeh, me too! LOL.

50.

Indy Steve

OH NO, he is CURRENTLY PUSHING the Coal to Liquid Bill NOW, with Republican Senators...IN THE SENATE. Nancy shut down Dingel in the House trying to do the same.

He says, but then does the opposite, as evidence shows.

Along with Joe Lieberman. They find truth the last thing to support. He's also supporting Liebermans Nuke Bill.

But enough about them, REALLY.

John wrote "I see that we're being treated to repeats of all thObomadoration posts."

John, put up your picture of Jim Kunsler again.  I think it got lost at the end of the last thread.

I spied another hypocrite's name on the DC Madam's list: Tobias, the abstinence-to-prevent-AIDS guy. These people are hilarious.

"I was a Republican - until they lost their minds." -- Charles Barkley, NBA Hall of Famer.

That he ever believed they had minds speak to how full of it he will always be. 

In all due respect, you're wrong. Barkley is a Independent.

If it talks like Bush, it's a Republican in heart, at least.

I see that we're being treated to repeats of all thObomadoration posts.

There's nothing worse than pushy political real estate salesmen. 

#64    yup

TRAITOR DEMOCRATS

http://www.counterpunch.org/kroth07102007.html

In November, the American electorate repudiated Bush's Iraq debacle and established Democratic majorities in both the House and Senate promising to bring this "flawed policy wrapped in illusion" to a decisive end. Bush vetoed their withdrawal timetable, but voters urged their leaders to hold the line and not be bullied. In the end, though, 37 Democratic senators capitulated and gratuitously gave the President his $100 billion no-strings- attached blank check . . . enough money to pay tuition and fees for 1.3 million college students for four solid years!

Bloggers called them "traitor Democrats", and the descriptor is apropos. At the time of the vote, sixty-two percent of the American people favored a time-table for a withdrawal, but, more significantly, "seventy percent" of Democrats were so inclined. Voting against this burgeoning tide of anger betrayed the will of the people and party that put these Democrats in office.

Curiously, all of the traitor democrats were huge career recipients of funds from the Israeli lobby. If we took ten Democratic apostates and compared them to ten Democrats who stood by the voters, pro-Israeli PAC contributions were "ten times" greater for the turncoats than those who stayed with their constituencies ($322,000 versus $34,000 on average).

To be specific: Carl Levin, outspoken critic of the war and, we thought, a loyal supporter of the new regime to end it, defected and blithely turned his back on his Michigan support base. Despite his strident anti-war rhetoric, the Grand Rapids Independent reports Levin has supported Bush all the way "consistently funding the war and not introducing any meaningful legislation to bring it closer to an end." Practically unknown to his constituents, Levin is one of the largest beneficiaries of Pro-Israeli PAC funds collecting $600,000 in career contributions according to the Washington Report on Mideast Affairs.

Barbara Boxer, Denis Kucinich, and Earl Blaumenauer, all opponents of the war, collectively got $73,000, but turncoat-democrats, Dan Durbin, Max Baucus, and Frank Lautenberg scooped up in excess of a million plus untold benes like travel funds.

Two professors, Mearsheimer and Walt, recently insinuated that American democracy has been suborned by the Israeli lobby, echoing Senator Fulbright's 1989 indictment that AIPAC had usurped the electoral process and could "elect or defeat nearly any congressman or senator that they wish." Such observations do not fall on deaf ears. Over half the senate and a third of the congress obediently attended the AIPAC annual convention (versus less than a dozen visiting the NAACP's event). Non-attendance can suggest a lawmaker might be soft on terrorism, or, god forbid, anti-Semitic.

Anti-war idealists might think that soon this American war crime, the shock-and-awe carnage, the torture, and the renditions are coming to an end, but the agenda of AIPAC seems bent on keeping American armies in the Middle East as an Israeli first line of defense for the indefinite future. Their major attack dog, Joe Lieberman, recently gave a hint on Face the Nation as to might be next: " military strikes" against Iran. . . all apparently to guarantee that Israel will remain the only nuclear power in the Middle East.

So if you think you voted, or are planning to vote, to bring the troops home and end this national embarrassment, some fool's gold waiting for you at the end of that rainbow.

Two Zonies who know Sir Charles well, huh Sitka?

Hey folks, I found the Foo Fighters, the one song that Dave dedicated to Al on YouTube. Give it a listen. It is a Rock song, but it's great.

I really like how he yells out Al's name during the song, too. "To Al"

http://youtube.com/watch?v=h3hY3BHBMnk

  Nixon went down real quick when the people, and the people they hired realized the administration were crooks. . I thank all who are tired of this crap, and urge all to work together, for all.

Chief Justice Roberts - Stupid as he Looks

"The way to stop discrimination on the basis of race is to stop discriminating on the basis of race."

The above quote is from:

a) David Duke
b) The KKK
c) The Aryan Nations
d) Chief Justice Roberts
e) All of the above

"E" is the correct answer of course. This crazyass line of reasoning has been used by every racist and Right-wing talking head since Affirmative Action began in the late 1970’s. It’s one of those statements that is meant to be read without thinking, for the less one thinks the truer it becomes. Most everything the Radical Right and the Libertarian Party injects into our political discourse suffers the same silliness. A superficial philosophical truism that does not translate into the actual world we reside in.

The most important Supreme Court decision in this century has now been torn asunder. John Paul Stevens, Ruth Bader Ginsberg and David H. Souter signed on to Stephen Breyers dissent.

“Unless our children begin to learn together, there is little hope that our people will ever learn to live together… The last half-century has witnessed great strides toward racial equality, but we have not yet realized the promise of Brown, to invalidate the plans under review is to threaten the promise of Brown. The plurality’s position, I fear, would break that promise. This is a decision that the Court and the nation will come to regret.”

Linda*in*SFNM
Tue, 07/10/07
1:37 pm

Well, in the moveon interview, he clearly said he did not support coal to liquid, and that he only would support coal with sequestration of CO2. So the talk doesn't match the action and that is what concerns me and so many others. The Obama fans here avoid any of those concerns because they have bought the uniter rhetoric.

71.

The Democrats on the Judiciary Committee should have never approved of this person.

How do you raise your poll numbers in the short term? Say what needs to be said to various interest groups (even if it contradicts) and try to hide what you are actually doing in the details which many people don't read. Obama is doing that now; Edwards is not. That is why his numbers are high for now.

Eventually, I believe the contradictions will catch up with him and his numbers will fall. People are tired of being played.

...The ruling marked the first time that the court has upheld a ban on a specific abortion procedure. It also marked a departure from the Supreme Court's past practice of requiring a "health exception" in laws governing abortion to allow the procedure when a woman's health would otherwise be at risk....

..Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg, now the only woman on the court, read a powerful dissent to a stone-silent courtroom that said the "alarming decision" was an effort to "chip away" at a woman's right to abortion...

...Ginsburg responded that the majority's solution was not to insure that the woman is informed of the details of the procedure.

"Instead, the court shields women by denying them any choice in the matter," she said. "This way of protecting women recalls ancient notions about women's place in society and under the Constitution -- ideas that have long since been discredited."

The ruling buoyed abortion opponents who have placed their hopes in Bush's conservative nominees to the Supreme Court. Making up today's majority, in addition to Kennedy, were Bush's two picks -- Chief Justice John G. Roberts Jr. and Alito -- as well as two of the court's staunchest conservatives: Scalia and Thomas. Kennedy, who joined the court in 1988 after being nominated by President Ronald Reagan, has long been viewed as a swing vote on key issues....



Court Backs Ban on Abortion Procedure

By William Branigin and Robert Barnes
Washington Post Staff Writers
Wednesday, April 18, 2007; 4:10 PM


The Supreme Court today narrowly upheld a nationwide ban on a controversial abortion procedure, handing a major victory to President Bush and his social conservative allies.

In a 5-4 vote, the court ruled that the Partial-Birth Abortion Ban Act, which Bush signed into law in 2003, does not violate a woman's right to have an abortion under the court's landmark 1973 ruling in Roe v. Wade.

full article: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/con...

#75 how do you raise the polls? Get the flag wavers to get excited about an attack.

Investing
Obama Faces Coal Backlash
By Aaron L. Task
Editor at Large
6/12/2007 12:56 PM EDT
URL: http://www.thestreet.com/funds/investing...


While the mainstream press focuses on Monday's symbolic "no confidence" vote over Attorney General Alberto Gonzales, the Senate also took up the energy bill, legislation with far-reaching implications for investors and at least one presidential candidate.

Fuel-efficiency standards for automakers, and renewable energy requirements for utilities will dominate the headlines, but amendments promoting coal-based fuels fall squarely into the "politics makes strange bedfellows" department.

It turns out Democratic presidential aspirant and Illinois Sen. Barack Obama has more in common with the U.S. Air Force than the Natural Resources Defense Council or Moveon.org when it comes to solving America's dependence on foreign oil.

Both Obama and the Air Force have determined the path to energy independence runs through the coal mines of Appalachia, Wyoming and, yes, Illinois. This unlikely pairing has both political and investing implications for those gaming the possibility of an Obama presidency.

Coal's political appeal is clear: There are more than 250 billion tons of recoverable coal reserves in the U.S., the equivalent of about 800 billion barrels of oil, or more than three times Saudi Arabia's proven oil reserves, according to the National Mining Association.

Thus, while the popular press, celebrities and a certain former vice president focus on "greenhouse gases," the energy bill is likely to contemplate recent legislative proposals such as taxpayer-funded loan guarantees to build coal-to-liquid plants.

Spearheading current legislation in the House are Rick Boucher (D., Va.) and Geoff Davis (R., Ky.), while Senate sponsorship is coming from Republican Jim Bunning of Kentucky, who co-sponsored the Coal-to-Liquid Fuel Promotion Act of 2007 with Obama in January.

Illinois ranks as the nation's seventh-leading coal producer, according to the Department of Energy. Nearly 32 million tons of Illinois coal were mined in 2005, generating nearly $1 billion in gross revenue, according to the Illinois Department of Commerce.

http://www.thestreet.com/pf/funds/invest...

LA Times
Obama backtracks.

These are heady days for those who are advancing energy technologies in the name of fighting global warming, air pollution, high gas prices, and dependence on foreign oil. One such technology – known as coal-to-liquids – has joined the fray, with fallout for both presidential and Congressional elections in 2008.

A champion of coal-to-liquid fuel technology is Democratic presidential candidate Sen. Barack Obama (IL), although he is hardly the only one. Obama has co-sponsored a bill (S. 154) that would subsidize coal-to-liquid fuel production with a set of loans, loan guarantees, and guaranteed buyers (namely the Defense Department). Obama's home state of Illinois is rich in coal, and coal-mining jobs are prized in the southern part of the state. Anything that uses coal is considered by many in Illinois to be good for the state's economy, regardless of its energy or environmental cost or consequences.

http://www.niemanwatchdog.org/index.cfm?...


And as a matter of fact, this was one of the questions asked by Harry Smith when Al was interviewing with his book about his feelings of Congress pushing this Coal to Liquid Bill and Al said how bad this Bill and their efforts in pushing Coal, coal to liquid, shale , etc is

Indy wrote "Well, in the moveon interview, [Obama] clearly said he did not support coal to liquid, and that he only would support coal with sequestration of CO2. So the talk doesn't match the action and that is what concerns me and so many others. The Obama fans here avoid any of those concerns because they have bought the uniter rhetoric."

This is a worthwhile point to make. Linda wrote: "[Obama] is CURRENTLY PUSHING the Coal to Liquid Bill NOW, with Republican Senators...IN THE SENATE. Nancy shut down Dingel in the House trying to do the same. He says, but then does the opposite, as evidence shows. Along with Joe Lieberman. They find truth the last thing to support."

I don’t know that co-sponsoring a bill with Republicans has the necessary effect of making the legislation objectionable. A bill to authorize the invasion of Iraq, for example, that was co-sponsored by John Edwards and Joe Lieberman, could be as bad or, I would argue, possibly worse. I guess what a legislator says is good enough for some people, but I think you should look at the details. That is where the devil lies.

Linda*in*SFNM
Tue, 07/10/07
2:09 pm

Good. Thanks. That is the point I'm making because Obama is saying something much different now. Listen to his response on Moveon. He sounds like he's against it. Actions speak louder than words. Caught in his own tangled web. As this becomes his albatross, his numbers will fall.

Patriot Sen Leahy on CSAN2 LIVE.

Tom Bearse
Tue, 07/10/07
2:13 pm

Tom. You conveniently have no time frame in your comments. The HUGE difference is that Edwards was in the past and he has admitted mistakes. Obama's is current and happening at the same time. Contradiction has justs rewards. Your defense of Obama is just giving enough rope.

chuck nasmith
Tue, 07/10/07
2:11 pm

So true....fear is the most basic motivator. We're hardwired through evolution (intelligent design?!) to react to fear. And some politicians use it effectively. Beware.

Indy wrote "That is the point I'm making because Obama is saying something much different now. Listen to his response on Moveon. He sounds like he's against it. Actions speak louder than words."

No, I absolutely think not. If you say your previous action, like a vote on a piece of legislation, was a mistake, and you say something much different now, I think your words speak much louder than your past actions. I’m surprised you don’t agree.

79. Indy, he isn't just saying something different now.

He new it when he proposed it again in January. He got back lash.

This aritcle posted in March shows how he was still pushing the Coal Bill, but had on his website...He's all for reducing global warming, but...

"March 22, 2007

Tell Obama - No Liquid Coal
Posted by Dan Stafford at 10:19 AM

I'm writing today with some surprising news - Sen. Barack Obama, Illinois Senator and Democratic Presidential candidate supports a massive increase in liquid coal production. If you're not familiar with liquid coal, let me assure you, it's as bad as it sounds.

Liquid coal is touted as an 'alternative energy' source, when in truth it's worse than many of our current energy sources. This World War II-era technology creates twice as much global warming pollution as gas, actually speeding up global warming.

Let Senator Obama know that we need clean energy alternatives, not outdated polluting technologies - we've set up a simple page for you to send him this important message:

Click here to send the message.

There are some serious problems with liquid coal: from production to use, liquid coal produces nearly twice the CO2 emissions as gasoline thus speeding up global warming. Not to mention that for liquid coal to be produced, we'd have to dramatically increase our domestic coal mining operations, further destorying our wild places.

On his website it says, "Senator Obama believes the U.S. must act now to reduce the emission of greenhouse gases that contribute to climate change," and obviously, we agree with him. So why is he supporting this terrible liquid coal idea?

http://www.environmental-action.org/blog...


But, he kept pushing for it thru to June when it was up for a vote on the energy Bill, wasn't he?

Tom Bearse
Tue, 07/10/07
2:21 pm

I don't understand what you're saying....if a vote or an action is admitted as a mistake, one can move on to correct it by saying and taking actions that correct the mistake. I look for that in a leader. And Edwards up to this point has done that.

Obama is saying he is against coal to liquids at the same time he has sponsored legislation to give subsidies to the industry. He says he supports universal health care but his plan does not do that. That is NOT leadership.

Indy wrote "Contradiction has just rewards."

Thanks for reminding me. You seem to have left my question about the candidates’ positions on healthcare delivery hanging. Do you support a universal healthcare coverage program that excludes a single payer component?

Tom asked for specifics. I gave them to you. Maybe you ought to reflect on what i'm saying since you asked for it! ;-)

Indy wrote "Tom asked for specifics. I gave them to you."

I appreciate that.  I was actually in the middle of discussing them in further detail.

the economy of southern Illinois versus a global concern -- Obama is learning:

http://thehill.com/leading-the-news/sen.-obama-seizes-on-live-earth-in-bid-to-woo-environmentalists-2007-07-10.html

Sen. Barack Obama (D-Ill.) used Saturday’s Live Earth music extravaganza to make amends with liberal environmentalists he angered earlier this year by introducing a bill subsidizing liquefied coal, a fuel activists say would accelerate global warming.

...

unveiled a bold proposal to reduce air pollution during a virtual town hall meeting that the liberal group MoveOn sponsored to complement the Live Earth concerts. Obama called for carbon auctions, which would require businesses that pollute to fund research on alternative energy sources.

Some activists pronounced themselves delighted with Obama’s words aired over the weekend.

The president of Clean Air Watch, Frank O’Donnell, said Obama’s support of carbon auctions “shows a terrifically enlightened attitude.”

...

Obama drew the wrath of many environmental groups, an important constituency of the Democratic Party, when he and Sen. Jim Bunning (R-Ky.) introduced legislation earlier this year that would provide loans to build large-scale coal-to-liquid plants and allow for them to use federal land.

Obama’s sponsorship of the proposal and the criticism he received for it was a classic example of a presidential candidate torn between the needs of his home state and the demands of influential national interest groups.

The development and spread of coal-to-liquid fuel processing plants could revive the domestic coal industry, which is an important part of the economy of southern Illinois. National environmental groups, however, say the fuel would accelerate global warming dramatically.

...

Ted Glick, the national coordinator for the U.S. Climate  Emergency Council, said Obama has moderated his support for technology that would manufacture liquid fuel from coal. But Glick said he is not satisfied with Obama’s position and that
it contradicts his statements on global warming.

“We don’t think anyone who ‘gets it’ on global warming should be supporting any money going into coal-to-liquid research,” he said. “We do think it is inconsistent.”

Obama’s spokesman, Ben LaBolt, said his boss still supports the legislation he introduced with Bunning in January. But LeBolt said that Obama only would support coal-to-liquid fuel programs that produce less pollution than regular gasoline.

“Sen. Obama believes that America should both pursue energy independence and fight climate change,” LeBolt said. “He supports research into all potential sources of energy, including solar, wind and coal. But his support for coal-to-liquid fuels is dependent on whether we can capture and sequester enough carbon that [we can] produce fuels that have 20 percent lower emissions than gasoline.”

In a statement released before the Senate energy debate, Obama announced that he would only support the development of coal-to-liquid fuels if they emitted less global warming-linked carbon than conventional fuels.

Obama also voted against an amendment sponsored by Bunning that would have mandated the use of coal-to-liquid fuels.

Pica, of Friends of the Earth, said Obama’s decision to moderate his position on liquefied coal shows he is moving closer to environmental interest groups on global warming.

“I think he’s realizing the enormity of the global warming crisis,” Pica said.

O’Donnell of Clean Air Watch said Obama’s “coal-to-liquid position has been something of a blemish on his record, but I think he’s edging away from [his] initial position.”

Obama seems to have realized that, on global warming, trying to please home-state industries and the powerbrokers of the Democratic primary is a recipe for political trouble.

“I think Obama was trying to straddle the issue and he is now trying to maneuver into a more positive position,” O’Donnell said.

Tom Bearse
Tue, 07/10/07
2:32 pm

Hmmm....no, you were in the process of trying to support Obama rather than investigate them and discuss them. Obama has some serious contradiction which are now emerging. They will be used against him as they should be to question the difference between his CURRENT actions and his words. Health care and coal reveal a disturbing tendency to say one thing and do another.

Indy wrote "Obama is saying he is against coal to liquids at the same time he has sponsored legislation to give subsidies to the industry."

Maybe healthcare delivery isn’t the riveting subject I had thought it was. I too have considered the blowback from Obama's sponsorship of coal to liquid fuels. He's sponsoring separate legislation to cut back greenhouse gas emissions, so I have to believe, as you pointed out, that his support for the CTL bill would have to be in conjunction with and dependent upon removing emissions during production. By subsidies, are you referring to research grants for this type of technology?

It makes sense in a way, if you consider what Gore explained was the opportunity provided by sensitivity to global climate change in An Inconvenient Truth. His theory was that requiring environmental safeguards by law would create market incentives for research and development, and new sector technology and industries. I think people who support greater reliance on biofuels endorse the same approach, meaning the use of new technologies to make it a worthwhile alternative. The problem is our dependence on oils and huge energy demands. There are many alternatives, but none are perfect and some are much worse than others.

I watched Sicko today...........what a country we live in............suckers.

* rdorgan
Tue, 07/10/07
2:34 pm

Copying Edwards who MONTHS AGO called for carbon auctions and constantly lowering caps to reduce carbon emissions by 80% by 2050. Obama did it when he was caught in a contradiction. That is what I've been saying today. Caters to whatever crowd he happens to be in front of. Trust him? I don't. First he was for coal to liquids, now he's against it. All in the same year. Wow.

Dear activists, colleagues, and friends,

It's FOX Attacks time... again.

In March we all took on Fox and we beat them. Bad. The Nevada Fox-sponsored presidential debates were canceled when our videos showing Fox's distortions were spread far and wide. Local bloggers worked like crazy, activists around the country wrote and called, and MoveOn used their strategic strength and smarts to bring it all home.

Now Fox is at it again. The only surprise this time is the amount of time and energy they are putting into denying that the sun sets in the west. Okay, well not exactly, but pretty close. They are fighting the scientific truth of the climate crisis and are claiming it just isn't so! I'm not kidding. Take a look at the video evidence, you won't believe what you see. (Well, maybe you will)

Watch the new video: http://foxattacks.com/

Seen enough? Now it's time to get to work. Join with us, the Sierra Club, and MoveOn to put an end to this propaganda and distortion by appealing to Fox's advertisers. Specifically, Home Depot. Why? Because Home Depot says they care about the environment. So we're giving them a chance to prove it by asking them to stop advertising on Fox until it changes its lies and distortions about the climate crisis.

Tell Home Depot to stop advertising on Fox! http://action.sierraclub.org/foxattacks

No responsible company claiming to support the environment should be advertising with a corporation that consistently deceives America about the climate crisis. Rupert Murdoch says he wants to "get their house in order." Let's help him along by applying pressure to his bank accounts.

Thank you for joining us in this next FOX ATTACKS battle.

Robert Greenwald, DJK, and the Brave New Films team

---
Brave New Films is located at 10510 Culver Blvd., Culver City, CA 90232 and can be reached at info@bravenewfilms.org.

well the diktator just said on tv that he won't listen to politicians about iraq. moving the goalpost.
stones anyone?

Tom Bearse
Tue, 07/10/07
2:38 pm

Education on coal. It is a fossil fuel like oil. If you use it in autos which is what coal liquid would do, you emit just as much if not more carbon than gasoline. "making up" for that elsewhere is chasing your tail. We don't need more carbon-based fuels period. Subsidizing that industry through tax deductions is ridiculous. Some solutions are bad and others are just awful. I prefer we subsidize good solutions like cellulosic ethanol (not corn) and plug-in electric hybrids.

35 signatures to go and the online petition reaches 100,000 SIGNATURES to DRAFT AL GORE!!!

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/algor...

The Democrats on the Judiciary Committee should have never approved of this person.

And Scalia, and Thomas, and Alito.

Indy wrote "no, you were in the process of trying to support Obama rather than investigate them and discuss them. Obama has some serious contradiction which are now emerging. They will be used against him as they should be to question the difference between his CURRENT actions and his words. Health care and coal reveal a disturbing tendency to say one thing and do another."

This is a little exasperating. You see I couldn’t care less if Obama falls into a burning volcano before November 2008. I’m trying to look at issues for a single reason, namely, you have come to this site complaining, ad nauseum, that I, among others, only used negative personal attacks to discuss presidential politics. Your suggestion, which I accepted at face value, was to discuss the candidates’ positions on the issues, prompting me to ask what substantive differences separated the candidates, to which you replied health care and energy.

I speculated that the candidates sought different means to an end, but your response was I was wrong. When I asked twice if you would forego a single payer plan, you said I’m promoting a candidate, not discussing them.

Indy wrote "Some solutions are bad and others are just awful. I prefer we subsidize good solutions like cellulosic ethanol (not corn) and plug-in electric hybrids."

As I said.  Are you maintaining that Obama is opposed to these options?

Bush is pathetic. He is dismissing his own party. Leaving them high and dry. You know when Sen. Lugar comes out against him, he's really getting isolated. Still, Bush slogs on and unless Dems fund only a withdrawal, he'll probably prolong this war til he leaves.

This will be the real test of Dem guts and resolve. If they tell us "we don't have the votes, they're lying".

Tom Bearse
Tue, 07/10/07
2:49 pm

You are exhausting! Look, Obama wants to promote liquid coal. Why? Because he has coal interests in his state that want to make money. It will worsen global warming a great deal. How much more clearer can we make it for you?

Now Obama is suddenly against coal to liquid. Why? Because he is running for President and he needs the environmental vote. Trust him? I don't.

stones anyone?+++linda b -Not sure if there's any left, after all the ones thrown at the dems. 

Whatever weak semblence that DCDems bear to being RealDems is because of the stones people like us have thrown at them. Harry Reid didn't just admit Democrats haven't done enough to end Bush's disaster because we patted him on the back for failure.

. 

Right now, Blue Cross is spending $2 million on a campaign here in California to derail healthcare reform in the Legislature -- the same Blue Cross that makes more money here, and spends less on patients, than any other big insurer.

Blue Cross is fighting to kill any reform this year, and we've got to fight back. We can get quality, affordable healthcare in California this year -- but only if Blue Cross and its millions of dollars aren't the only voice speaking in Sacramento.

http://www.sickofbluecross.com/

At SickOfBlueCross.com, we're exposing the truth behind Blue Cross's effort to thwart healthcare reform in California this year while providing you with online tools to help you speak up and fight back.

That's why, today we're announcing the launch of a brand new website -- SickOfBlueCross.com. Please come by and check it out.

http://www.sickofbluecross.com/

While you're visiting our new website, we hope you'll also join our first major online advocacy campaign: Send an email message to Governor Schwarzenegger and legislative leaders in Sacramento, telling them to stand up against Blue Cross and its $2 million “Just Say No” campaign -- and stand up for healthcare reform in California this year.

http://www.sickofbluecross.com/

Tom Bearse
Tue, 07/10/07
2:47 pm

I'm not going to get in a dysfunctional back and forth with you on me and you!

And what I think about health care isn't as important as comparing the candidates. Edwards' plan holds out the possibility of single payer because it is one plan that will compete with private insurers'. I said that long ago.

Indy Steve -

So you'll be retracting your earlier statements advocating for a Edwards/Obama ticket ?

106.

Sitka
Tue, 07/10/07
2:54 pm

Harry Reid didn't just admit Democrats haven't done enough to end Bush's disaster because we patted him on the back for failure.

------->>> wOOOT!

Indy wrote "And what I think about health care isn't as important as comparing the candidates. Edwards' plan holds out the possibility of single payer because it is one plan that will compete with private insurers'. I said that long ago."

Not to you, but it means a lot to a someone eviscerating your worthless arguments.  Let's compare the candidates, in your melifluous phrase.  Why would you support Edwards for president over Kucinich?

* rdorgan
Tue, 07/10/07
2:57 pm

No, trust can be regained. And someone can always redeem himself. But he must admit he's wrong instead of saying he's against coal when he has supported it or saying he's for universal health care when his plan doesn't.

So I hold out hope. Maybe in 2016.....after an Edwards presidency.

97. Indy, one difference in oil and coal is we have a h*ll of a lot of coal. I admit I'm troubled by what seems like a 2 step on Obama's part on this issue, but maybe his thinking is evolving -- I like people who can evolve their opinions as they learn more about something. And I do see how his responsibility to the voters in his state might come in conflict with the general consensus on fossil fuels. And in the MoveOn statement he doesn't say he flat out supports coal to liquid but rather RESEARCH on coal to liquid. Also remember their are problems associated with biofuels as well -- like needing the corn for animal feed instead of fuel, for example. Finally, I must say this is America and I lived in the heart of Silicon Valley for many years and there is nothing absolutely nothing we can't do (like make coal burn clean somehow) if we set our minds to it.

Sitka...106....you have just stepped.....in to the Twilight Zone!


Have a nice day before some b@stard louses it up!

Any politician who promotes any carbon burning energy plan is not just still in the 20th century, but in the pocket of energy companies which peddle pollution for profit.

Tom Bearse
Tue, 07/10/07
2:59 pm

Because Kucinich doesn't have the temperament to be a good President. He's better as a Congressperson. You are just running from one point to another and I'm pretty much tired of it.

How about you respond to my points about Obama on health care and coal? After educating yourself on it of course.

did u know that the u.s. is going to start IMPORTING COAL?

CHEAPER. no unions. no import quotas, no tariffs.

Sitka wrote "Any politician who promotes any carbon burning energy plan is not just still in the 20th century, but in the pocket of energy companies which peddle pollution for profit."

You left out big agriculture who favor biofuels.  

111. their sb there (absent on homonym day lol)

116. why not -- we export trees and oil don't we -- go figure. it's those moneychangers in the temple again.

Annilow
Tue, 07/10/07
2:56 pm

The problem is his thinking evolves as he finds who is for or against something. I would respect him more if he stuck to his coal to liquids rather than equivocating and changing it on the Moveon site. We can't "do anything". Removing carbon from coal or oil in an automobile is next to impossible.

I don't admire his support of coal to liquids. Using coal for electricity and sequestering the carbon is worth investigating but I'm very leery of it working well enough to base our future on it.

However, this flip in one month is more than troubling. Edwards knows the issues and has beaten Obama with better proposals on nearly everything. Obama follows Edwards in a tentative manner. Which one should be President?

(this blog is jumping)

105.

Indy Steve -

So you'll be retracting your earlier statements advocating for a Edwards/Obama ticket ?

109.

* rdorgan
Tue, 07/10/07
2:57 pm

No, trust can be regained. And someone can always redeem himself. But he must admit he's wrong instead of saying he's against coal when he has supported it or saying he's for universal health care when his plan doesn't.

So I hold out hope. Maybe in 2016.....after an Edwards presidency.

++++

Indy Steve -

"No", thus means that you're still advocating a Edwards/Obama for 08, like you stated in earlier threads ?

But how does that jive with your statement "Maybe in 2016.....after an Edwards presidency." ?

The vice president position requires trust from people (he/she is just one step away from the presidency if ahything should ever go wrong) and so how can you trust Obama for the vice presidency in 2008, if you don't trust him ?

Are you eating that cake that you know you're supposed to simply have ?

Tom Bearse
Tue, 07/10/07
3:04 pm
 

Tom, read and learn:   Biofuels don't emit more carbon than the plant used to produce it in the first place. That is why plants are carbon neutral as an energy source.

Corn has other serious problems, however. The biggest moral one is that we would be starving people to run our automobiles. I find that a bit distasteful as I'm sure you do.

Indy Steve -

...

Which one should be President?

+++

Gore ?

Ooohhh, I am sooo embarrassed!
I deliberately ignore this stuff,
but today it's in my face.
Simpsons in Vermont:

http://www.wptz.com/news/13655287/detail.html 

* rdorgan
Tue, 07/10/07
3:08 pm

I vote for the President. Obama can watch and work with Edwards and learn. Then he'll be ready for the Presidency in 2016.

Trying to catch me in a contradiction isn't as easy as catching Obama in one!

RUN AL RUN!

Well, off the blog for awhile.

Why do "discussions" with Tom and Rdorgan always turn into a gotcha game? Let's focus on the candidates and the issues; much more interesting.

Corn has other serious problems, however.

Energy from corn is a boondoggle for ADM. It pollutes. It wastes food. It solves nothing

Indy Steve -

IMO Hoke (Colburn) won't be driving Miss Daisy (Werthan) or anyone else.

I hope you enjoy the cake though.

bbl

Indy wrote "Because Kucinich doesn't have the temperament to be a good President."

That's right.  You see, in your haste to promote issue papers and specific proposals as the sole criterion for judging two candidates, you left out the fact that some people, voters among them, use other criteria in their assessments.  The fact that Edwards' position on healthcare reform doesn't do the job that Kucinich's does fell short of persuading you to join the Kucinich campaign.

Now you appreciate that some people, a Dean supporter for example, didn't get bent out of shape that he didn't support a single payer plan because he doubted one could gain acceptance and pass.  This explains why a candidate might advance changes to the system that were short of ideal.  If the perfect is the enemy of the good, the good may be a path towards the perfect.  Obama's plan may not be universal health coverage, but he may support universal coverage.  His and Edwards plan may be different means to an end.

Oh, I know I'm wrong.  Edwards may have made mistakes voting, may have even voted in support of the interests of his constituents, but what a temperament!  f he says he made mistakes of judgment in the past, at least now he says he won't make those mistakes in the future. 

Sitka
Tue, 07/10/07
3:15 pm

Exactly. Condolences to Phil but corn barely produces enough energy to cover its own production. And it needs to be transported to pumps since it can't be pipelined. But the biggest objection is the moral one.

Cellulosic ethanol, bio-diesel and plugins are much better solutions. yes, sadly everything has problems but they are much less objectional.

Tom Bearse
Tue, 07/10/07
3:16 pm

One is much less likely to make the same mistakes in the future IF you admit to them. If you don't even admit to a mistake, then you are sure to repeat it. (IndySteve, July, 2007)

IMO Hoke (Colburn) won't be driving Miss Daisy (Werthan) or anyone else.

I hope you enjoy the cake though.

* rdorgan
Tue, 07/10/07
3:16 pm

I didn't understand that at all, but I do like cake. YUM!

Tom. I want a president who is at least as smart as I am,

I nearly froze my feet protesting before Bush went into Iraq.

I got quoted in the papers saying "We're talking about destabilising a significant portion of the Middle East!"

If I knew it, a member of Congress should have, and the pResident really should have.

I will not vote for anyone who said yes to this horrid war.

There are 140,000 Turkish troops massing on the Iraq border.

We have about 150,000 troops in all of Iraq.

My sister has orders for Iraq beginning in January.

There is no way I am voting for anyone who let this happen. 

BBL..mining salt at the moment.

and there are almost 200000 contractors in iraq and slave labor for the embassey.

listener I cried when I heard about your sister.

listener wrote "I will not vote for anyone who said yes to this horrid war."

I think you’ve adopted the right approach.

listener
Tue, 07/10/07
3:22 pm

I understand what you're saying, and that's one litmus test to narrow the field. But Obama wasn't in a position to have to vote. So we don't really know what he would have done. I know he says he was against it, but he says now he's against coal to liquid.

This is about the future. And it's not only about Iraq.  I give people a second chance if they have truly admitted making mistakes. And then I look to see what kind of solutions they propose. Edwards has the most progressive forward-thinking platform of any candidate. And he had it many months ago.

Edwards may have made mistakes voting, may have even voted in support of the interests of his constituents, but what a temperament!  f he says he made mistakes of judgment in the past, at least now he says he won't make those mistakes in the future.

Really?

Edwards 2002: "Saddam Hussein . . . has weapons of mass destruction and . . . is doing everything in his power to get nuclear weapons"

"My position is very clear. The time has come for decisive action to eliminate the threat posed by Saddam Hussein."

Edwards 2006: "To ensure that Iran never gets nuclear weapons, we need to keep ALL options on the table, Let me reiterate – ALL options must remain on the table."

Sounds like he's still sucker for the NeoCon trash talk. 

Cellulosic ethanol, bio-diesel and plugins are much better solutions. yes, sadly everything has problems but they are much less objectional.

There are no problems with wind and solar power which can't be overcome with a relatively small amount of money. And they don't pollute in the production process or in use.

Sitka wrote that it Sounds like [Edwards is] still sucker for the NeoCon trash talk" because he said all options for Iraq must remain on the table.

I don’t agree with the premise. Keeping all options on the table is simply a means of refusing to unilaterally disarm. I don’t regard it as any indication that a person intends to act in conformance with the threat.

I don’t regard it as any indication that a person intends to act in conformance with the threat.

What politicians say is the only indicator we have as to what they'll do. And Edwards has a track record with Iraq to go along with his threats against Iran.

Tom Bearse
Tue, 07/10/07
3:45 pm

I agree with you! ((((Earth begins to shake)))

141.

Sitka
Tue, 07/10/07
3:36 pm



Edwards 2002: "Saddam Hussein . . . has weapons of mass destruction and . . . is doing everything in his power to get nuclear weapons"

"My position is very clear. The time has come for decisive action to eliminate the threat posed by Saddam Hussein.

---->>> A very scary statement and requisition of action, considering he was on the Intelligence Committee and KNEW THERE WERE NO SUPPORTIVE facts to that statement. Elizabeth didn't want him voting for war, he did it because his "strategists" told him it was a good move for his political future.

A very strong statement indeed.

What politicians say is the only indicator we have as to what they'll do.

Shoulf have said: What politicians say is one indicator we have as to what they'll do.

Sitka
Tue, 07/10/07
3:40 pm

Sitka, those are fuels to replace oil rather than liquid coal used to run autos. Different from solar/wind, although we could use solar/wind to recharge electric cars. that is my goal: drive a car powered by the sun from solar on my roof. SUN POWER!

It pretty bad for Edwards that the best that can be said of him by those selling him is that he was wrong in the past and doesn't mean what he says now.

Fred wrote: Following is a list of vaccines the CDC says all children should get and when they should get them:

Thank goodness. And infant mortality has gone down as a result. Have you ever had whooping cough? I have, and it isn't pretty. People who don't get vaccinations rely on people who do to stay well.

Following is a list of vaccines the CDC says all children should get and when they should get them:

We're up to date.

Sitka
Tue, 07/10/07
3:53 pm

Who says that? He made mistakes in the past and he'll make them again. As will we all. I find it a good thing when someone admits it. 

Are you actually saying you would take military options completely off the table? No serious President would do so.

Are you actually saying you would take military options completely off the table?

In the first place, there's no need for such belligerent talk except to pander to the Israelis. In the second place, "All options" is code for using nuclear weapons. 

Such garbage coming from the mouths of American politicians only encourages nations like Korea and Iran to accelerate rather than end their nuclear programs (and NK is now offering to end theirs now that Bush is belatedly negotiating with them.) 

Implications of PV Manufacturing and Production

Because manufacturers use a wide variety of processes to make PV cells, a wide range of chemicals—some of them toxic or hazardous—are employed in PV cell production....

http://www1.eere.energy.gov/solar/man_pro_implications.html

Edwards, IMO, lost a lot of voters, including me, when he said that all options are on the table with Iran.  Threatening to possibly blow up your neighbor is not a good way to make friends who'll throw candy and flowers at you.

We desperately need someone who says we need world peace instead of world war.  And those few candidates are marginalized and haven't much money.

And Pelosi lost my support when she took impeachment off the table and let AIPAC dictate Cheney's macabre ME policy.

Simply and crudely stated, we have to scare the shit outta our critters regarding their re-election.

JUST IN:

CNN is reporting a church fire.  I wonder when the CMWs will start reporting celebrity hangnails and someone who painted their house chartreuse.

I remember the Huntley/Brinkley days.  "Goodnight, David. Goodnight, Chet."  I weep for our country.

Malloy said that we're not gonna get anywhere by protest marches which worked well in the 60's.  He said those are now being ignored becuz the gov't is no longer afraid of the people,but vice versa.  Certainly the impeachment talk is not making a dent, since we're just doing fine in Iraq, thank you very much.

Put impeachment on the table and give these criminals something to really worry about and the world to cheer.  They now act above the law.  Perhaps it's time to be very creative and change some laws-make new ones or old ones retroactive. 

Someone said charging the WH with contempt of Congress will drag thru the courts for years. Perhaps  it's time to simply do what they do.  Arrest them and put them in jail for contempt, lies, possible war crimes, obstruction of justice, not upholding the Constitution....no bail, no lawyers.  Extreme?  Yes, and very much needed to stop these thugs.  And then make them prove they're innocent.  I know this is not how the rule of law works, but they are not honoring it.  I suggest putting the shoes on the other foot since nothing else is working.  Fatten them up in GITMO. 

We cannot take more of this slide into Hell. 

He made mistakes in the past and he'll make them again. As will we all. I find it a good thing when someone admits it.

There are plenty of politicians who DIDN'T make such terrible mistakes as Edwards has. And the fact that he has recently spouted the same kind of war mongering against Iran should make everyone wonder whether he really thinks he was wrong before or is just pandering to both sides of the fence. 

Sitka
Tue, 07/10/07
4:01 pm

Disagree with the first part. All options usually refers to military option in place of diplomatic.

Agree on the second point. Threats usually result in a response that we don't want. But sending a third battle group to the Gulf is much more of a threat than a vague reference to options on the table. Edwards has made it clear he favors diplomacy.

Sitka,

You define the negative approach. Attack everything....Nothing wrong with criticism but what/who are you actually for?

Anyone know when Howard is supposed to be on CNN today?

Fred wrote: Following is a list of vaccines the CDC says all children should get and when they should get them:

Thank goodness.

==============

Vaccine quality has not kept up with the number mandated.  Each vaccine needs to assessed on the basis of risk/benefit.  One size fits all medicine treats all vaccines as being virtually risk free.  My neighbor's newborn baby died after a Hep B vaccine.  They almost threw her in jail refusing to accept the vaccine as a possible cause.  The baby deliberately left to rot "making an  autopsy impossible" according to the hospital.

There is an epidemic increase in childhood asthma diabetes and other autoimmune diseases that parallels proportionally the increase in vaccine regimen.  We don't have a death-from- childhood-disease problem, right now, but we have a death from asthma problem with 3,000 children a year dying from asthma.

That's the problem when you expect perfection. 

No one expects perfection. But when less is demanded of politicians, much less is what they deliver. And when they aren't held to account for their records, they aren't held to account at all.

Let's put peace on the table  instead.

bb;l 

Anyone wanna watch Sicko right now................there is a way.....for a time.

FRED from OR
Tue, 07/10/07
4:08 pm

On your soapbox again. Not going to do this again. But don't let the facts or studies get in the way of your theory. All vaccines/drugs have possible side effects. And those who don't vaccinate rely on those who do. That is part of the cost/benefit. I take the slight risk to protect you and others who don't. You can't refute that.

This is not about Obama, that's why I'm posting it.

Maybe, somebody who can, might want to provide a link to or copy the Wapo article about the CIA having been OUTSOURCED to four or so major corporations. Someone called the Hartman show.

Maybe Cheney thinks by now it wasn't such a good idea to "out" one of our covert operatives and doesn't want to have to do it again.

Sitka
Tue, 07/10/07
4:17 pm

I expect the best and agree we should hold them accountable. But I don't hold them to perfection. That is a recipe for disillusionment. Who are you for, Sitka?

The kind of media bias that Moore talks about, extends to the vaccine debate as well.  "Studies" that "prove" vaccines to be "safe" are done over and over with no control groups, just for the headlines and the 15 second TV news bite.   The studies are usually "engineered" by people owned by, or at least sympathetic to, big pharma or government bureaucracies heavily influenced by big pharma.

FRED from OR
Tue, 07/10/07
4:22 pm

Proof? Links? Specifics? Or is it just easier to make vague generalizations.

There are double blind studies on vaccines that show no statistically significant link between them and asthma/auto-immune disease. Until there are, I will be skeptical. That is how science works.

Indy Steve

========

No soap box, just the facts, and no personal attacks.  There's about 4 deaths from diptheria every year, but 3,000 from asthma alone (cause "unknown")  I don't know how many unvaccinated kids there are but it is a much larger % than 4 per 300,000,000.  Not sure if the 4 were vaccinated either, but in UK about 15% avearge of population is unvaccinate.  They had one death from  measles in 13 years.

"Anecdotal reports and uncontrolled studies have proposed that vaccines may cause particular allergic or autoimmune diseases," says Dr. Offit. "Such reports have led some parents to delay or withhold vaccinations for their children. This is very unfortunate, because the best available scientific evidence does not support the idea that vaccines cause chronic diseases. Scientific studies have shown, however, that reducing vaccination rates lead to increases in preventable infectious diseases."

Vaccinated Children Two and a Half Times More Likely to Have Neurological Disorders Like ADHD and Autism, New Survey in California and Oregon Finds

New Findings Emerge as Debate Rages in Court

PORTLAND, Ore., June 26, 2007 /PRNewswire-USNewswire/ -- As the first trial in Vaccine Court explores the relationship between vaccines and autism, a new survey released today indicates a strong correlation between rates of neurological disorders, such as ADHD and autism, and childhood vaccinations...

http://www.pharmalive.com/News/index.cfm?articleid=454629&categoryid=10

FRED from OR
Tue, 07/10/07
4:28 pm

Few deaths from childhood diseases is BECAUSE of vaccinations, Fred. Ever heard of the problem of spurious or false correlation? Just because two factors are correlated does not mean one causes the other. Otherwise, Florida would be a very dangerous state to move to (figure out why)!

Do vaccines cause asthma, allergies or other chronic diseases?Reviews of scientific data uphold vaccine safetyPhiladelphia, Pa -- Large scientific studies do not support claims...

===========

This is typical professional boiler plate -

What we need are long term studies, with controls (groups of kids that don't get vaccinated,) like the  one they had to stop because they discovered Hormone therapy caused cancer - and didn't prevent it as was previously "proven"

Indy Steve

========

Vaccine need to be improved in quality and ingredients and should only be used when a case can be made for an imminent threat.  At least until a number of long term studies and vaccine refinement can occur.

What is the threat of Hepatitus B for a newborn?  If the mother has been tested to be negative for Hepatitus B, there is virtually none.  There is a very clear example of posing a serious risk where no benefit is necessary.

From Fred's study:

Generation Rescue commissioned the phone survey. Data was gathered by SurveyUSA, a national market research firm, which surveyed parents by phone on more than 17,000 children, ages 4-17, in five counties in California (San Diego, Sonoma, Orange, Sacramento, and Marin) and four counties in Oregon (Multnomah, Marion, Jackson, and Lane).

~~~~~~~~~~~

This has all kinds of methodological problems. But hey, if the conclusion supports your belief, let's gloss over that!

FRED from OR
Tue, 07/10/07
4:40 pm

Take the risk with your own child. I will get mine vaccinated....tetanus/diptheria are very real. But I think the public has an interest in seeing most kids vaccinated because of the nature of communicable diseases. Waiting for imminent threat is a disastrous recommendation.

Fine. Let's have the studies although there have been some done already. But don't assert correlations and causes when you don't have the facts. And certainly don't spread fear and anecdotal info and pass it off as fact.....

===============

I have given you facts.  The medical establishment is the one that pushes fear, in order to get people to take vaccines that may not be necessary.

Anecdotal is not gossip.  When your neighbor's babies blood vessel in her brain sudden explode after a vaccine, and the hospital blames the mother for taking her to the hospital, that is a case against conventional medical myth in the medical establishment.

FRED from OR
Tue, 07/10/07
4:44 pm

Anecdotal is....anecdotal. Fortunately, science isn't based purely on anecdotal. We have no info regarding your neighbor's child. It means very little other than a tragedy occurred.

Also, the fact your study, Fred, is financed by an org which wants to prove the case makes it suspect. Isn't that the criticism you have of the drug companies?  Bias can enter into a study in many ways.....we need independent multiple studies by those who have no stake in the outcome.

Take the risk with your own child. I will get mine vaccinated....tetanus/diptheria are very real.

===============

I never ruled out vaccinations for my child.  I am vigilant for epidemics.  My first child had all hers up to age 5.

But I have no false sense of security about vaccinations - My conviction is there is a risk either way - and under some conditions (and specifically which vaccine) the risk of not having a vaccine can outweigh the risks of having one.  But that is more difficult now that single vaccinations are no longer available in children's doses.  You have to take 3 or 4 vaccines in one shot.  That is not medically necessary - it is a strategic and economic decision the medical establishment and big pharma has made for us.

Indy Steve

========

It was a simple study but was random and unbiased.  And it had controls, one thing that's always missing in "official" studies.  It is just as reliable as a poll for Bush's approval.

Generation Rescue commissioned the phone survey. Data was gathered by SurveyUSA, a national market research firm, which surveyed parents by phone on more than 17,000 children, ages 4-17, in five counties in California (San Diego, Sonoma, Orange, Sacramento, and Marin) and four counties in Oregon (Multnomah, Marion, Jackson, and Lane).

NOTHING BIASED HERE

http://www.pharmalive.com/News/index.cfm?articleid=454629&categoryid=10

FRED from OR
Tue, 07/10/07
4:51 pm

The point I've made is that those who don't get vaccinations are getting the benefit from those who do. They are free riders because they avoid the very slight risk of the vacs. However, if everyone followed that "risk/benefit" the risks of not vaccinating would go way up. So requiring vaccinations (for school) is a way of spreading the risks and getting the most benefits.

quickies

t r u t h o u t | 07.10

White House in "Panic Mode" Over GOP Revolt on Iraq
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/071007A.shtml
Martha Raddatz of ABC News has been told the White House is "in panic mode" over the recent defections of Republican senators on the President's stay-the-course policy in Iraq.

Pelosi Lines Up Iraq Votes
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/071007B.shtml
Mike Soraghan and Jackie Kucinich writing for The Hill report, "House Democrats are planning a series of votes this month on Iraq that they hope will ratchet up pressure on the White House and Congressional Republicans to change course on the unpopular war or suffer political consequences."

David Bacon | Faleh Abood Umara: Iraqi's Oil Should Stay in Public Hands
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/071007C.shtml
Reporting for Truthout, David Bacon interviews Faleh Abood Umara, general secretary of the Iraqi Federation of Oil Unions, and Hashmeya Muhsin Hussein, president of the Electrical Workers Union of Iraq on the state of the Iraqi oil industry.

Bob Herbert | Abusing Iraqi Civilians
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/071007D.shtml
Bob Herbert of The New York Times writes: "With no end yet in sight for the long dark night of the Iraq war, The Nation magazine is coming out this week with an article that goes into great and disturbing detail about the brutal treatment of Iraqi civilians by some US soldiers and marines. Based on interviews conducted on the record with dozens of American combat veterans of the war, the authors address what they describe as frequent acts of violence in which US forces have abused or killed Iraqi civilians - men, women and children - with impunity."

"FOLLOW THE MAN WHO SEARCHES FOR TRUTH - AND RUN FROM THE MAN WHO FINDS IT"

FRED from OR
Tue, 07/10/07
4:56 pm

Well, you can't tell if it was random or unbiased from this. Phone calls by themselves are not random and present certain problems of bias. So you're wrong right away. Even the group itself admits it isn't a random, unbiased study. So you are presenting a false case again.

Timed to the release of the survey results, Generation Rescue also ran full-page advertisements in Washington's Roll Call, The Oregonian, and The Orange County Register today. The ad compares the 36 pediatric vaccines the CDC recommends today to the 10 recommended in 1983, and asks, "Are We Over- Vaccinating Our Kids?"

Wow, they had no agenda, now did they???

Fred,

At least I agree with you that we ought to fund further studies.But from mutliple, unbiased orgs.

BBL, I promise.

The point I've made is that those who don't get vaccinations are getting the benefit from those who do. They are free riders because they avoid the very slight risk of the vacs. However, if everyone followed that "risk/benefit" the risks of not vaccinating would go way up. So requiring vaccinations (for school) is a way of spreading the risks and getting the most benefits.

============

Nothing wrong with the logic except for two unproven assumptions:

(1) That this is always a high degree of risk from diseases not presently prevalent

(2) There is no measureable risk from any specific vaccines to weigh against any degree of risk from that specific disease, because we haven't yet scientifically proven that there is a risk from vaccine (because we haven't really tried to find one)

Indy Steve

=========

Adios - glad we could keep it civil

Wow, they had no agenda, now did they???

============

Of course, but they were not dishonest or unscientific.  There is no profit motive here, only concern for children they believe have been injured.  However, they got a third party to do the study - a national survey company that would not risk its reputation on skewing results.

Congrats to Vermonters! The Simpsons in Springfield, VT. What a hoot!!!! Always knew that show had a liberal bent. he he.

Migosh. there are some long threads on here lately ...!

I'm on my way to Pillowland, but will let you all have a chance to sing about impeachment with the Raging Grannies ...!

==================
Raging Grannies Sing "Impeachment Hits"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nyc4Ospud...

===================

And The Land of Nod calls ...

Good to see MM tear into the Democrats on CNN just now...........its slowly becoming their war now............

Who are you for, Sitka?

I'm independent and undeclared. 

Fred,

At least I agree with you that we ought to fund further studies.But from mutliple, unbiased orgs

=======

Agreed, but I would add to that,

(1) government incentives for finding alternatives, for some of the known toxins present in vaccines and animal cell cultures that are under suspicion by critics, from which vaccines are made. 

(2) Government mandating to big pharma that single shot vaccines be made available (furthering the feasibility of forming another control group for that criteria)

(3)Changing from mandatory vaccine laws to voluntary system

(4) more surveys, maybe even an extended census form,  by CDC NIHS and other groups and NGOs like the one done above - there is an entire subculture of unvaccinated children that can be polled.

Unfortunately, like most other things in health or anywhere else, things don't change until people vote with their feet.

You define the negative approach. Attack everything....

I criticize what I think needs to needs to be and quite often give praise when it's deserved. I just happen to be goring your ox Edwards which is why you think I'm so awful (weren't you attacking Obama upthread?)

For someone named "Indy" you sure don't seem like it.

http://www.blogforamerica.com/view/21469#comment-1099499

new slog

Take the risk with your own child. I will get mine vaccinated....

My girl has gotten every vaccination recommended by her pediatrician and is a genius who's been sick only about 6 days in her 6 years. 

Wanting to make vaccines safer is a good cause, but scaring people into not using them is a bad one. 

mike, do u have a way to watch sicko? my son does.

Yes, of course they do.  They'll have to get past cheney and the smell of oil in his nostrils first.

Impeach him. 

Democrats Call for Combat to End By 2008
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/071007R.shtml
Anne Gearan and Anne Flaherty of The Associated Press report: "A senior Democrat said Tuesday it was obvious the Iraqi government has made no progress and the only way to propel it was to begin pulling out US troops."