A viable 3rd party and candidate is first......and about time.

Our electric service went out this morning and I've got a lot of catching up to do. 

Click on the icon or text to follow the Solution Channel.  
By following it, you can fully evaluate how wind could 
work for you. 

(No engineering degree required

"We get long power outages"

A viable 3rd party and candidate is first......and about time. 

I'll settle for no less than 6 viable parties. 

....ok, I'm back

minor internet access problem (ie. Stripes coughed up a furball, he's back pedaling furiously now)

as for firsties, that goes to Howard

as for secondies, that goes to anyone who has the brilliant, capitol-one idea of advocating 3rd parties, to those promoting that, I say you deserve a NADERLY (and per chance we run out of NADERLY awards, the backup award is a PEROTLY).

OK -- here it is a painless little video starring my new hero talking about getting energy independent of the ME. Prepare to fall in love :~) You too Sitka lol

http://video.msn.com/v/us/fv/msnbc/fv.ht...


"Its OK to lead once in awhile"
- Brian Schweitzer, Gov of Montana




PS -- New intern KASEY I forgot to say WELCOME

"Don't vote [for Nader] --- but do listen. What Nader's supporters have to say is important and real: We need change. We can't afford to have more of the same from Democrats." -- Howard Dean, You Have The Power

2. Sitka I like the idea of personal wind turbines/solar too -- don't think I get enuf wind but sun -- yes.

here it is a painless little video starring my new hero talking about getting energy independent of the ME.

Sounds like Schweitzer wants us to be energy dependent on Montana instead of the ME.

But "energy independence" has become a secondary issue to global warming, which burning Montana's coal will only continue to exacerbate, even if at a slightly slower rate. 

like the idea of personal wind turbines/solar too

What I like even better is the idea of every farmer in the midwest having several big generators per acre and making money while helping their country and the world for geneartions to come.

Tom Bearse
Thu, 05/31/07
2:43 pm
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

former is wise in his/her old age..................granted his paragraphs are tough to read and diagnose, but the meaning I gather and also how I feel is that the current Democratic party is beyond reform, at least by progressive independents like me and countless others......I can accept that......................

I would imagine that should Gore run, and he has his shortcomings as well and maybe former means and I agree to a point that Gore may fall into his old bad habits of the washington crowd.......my point being that Gores votes would be the very last hurrah for many Indys, including myself........and Im still not sold on even him until he decides to run and lays out his foreign policy, which will again point us in the very wrong direction should he decide to fall into the same trap politicians have been making for decades now.......................

Im not worried about a 3rd partry organizing.........in fact Im certain they are working on it...things in this country take sluggishly slow times to formulate................but I dont see many will flock to the Democratic party in its current form......dont matter how bad things get.......

Now, 08 Id be very woried if I were you........a certain % will never vote democratic, a good % of repubs who are pissed with Bush will look at the Dems but vote for Thompson or Mccain, the Dems will vote Dem but again the trump card boils down to the Independents and this is the key....................I really sense many staying home or offering  a protest vote for somebody else.

Still too early to call, but thats the way I think it will go...............................

44.
Sitka
Thu, 05/31/07
2:43 pm

Reply to this

In this next election youd better hope and pray that Indpendents vote for your guy

But first, Democrats need to hope that Democrats vote for their guy. If the Democrat convinces Democrats, the others will be as well.

====================

It doesn't have to be an  either / or  thing - but independents don't like to be taken for granted, or patronized by Democrats.  There scrutiny makes our party better not worse.

independents don't like to be taken for granted, or patronized by Democrats.

Neither do Democrats.

Since most people polled agree with the premises contained in the platform of the Democratic Party, if Democrats simply campaign and then govern on their own party's platform they will be in power as much as they were from 1932-1980.

Instead, since the 80's party has ignored its own platform and base voters and in the process has alienated independent voters as well who see Democrats as standing for nothing. 

9.

Sitka
Thu, 05/31/07
3:21 pm

Sitka I agree Schweitzer's prolly a master salesman, but he is advocating other forms of energy too -- his main thrust is to get the h*ll out of the ME.

bbl y'all

Mike wrote about former and progressive independents. former is a man named Ivan. The reason for his disappointment in Gore[‘s words, not the person] has been articulated clearly on two recent threads. Gore told John Harris that he wants people like himself, who wish for an immediate end to American involvement in Iraq, to be patient in view of the difficult position Democrats are now in because of authorization, i.e., their complicity in getting us there, the resulting difficulty in extricating ourselves, and the image of appearing to remove funding while American troops are under fire on foreign soil. Many people, like former, disagree that such patience is virtuous.

We’ve been all over quite a bit of this. I previously suspected the nature of Gore’s opinion on this subject because he’s been in the armed service, supported military action in the past in Iraq, Haiti, Bosnia, Somalia, and elsewhere, has a good grasp of global politics, and has a great deal of experience in office as a politician and a statesman, both in Congress and in the White House.

Third party leanings are much the same in nature as the ire that rained down on Dean and others on this site after the vote on the supplemental appropriation measure. They are an expression of frustration born from doctrinaire idealism and naive ideological purity. Both are much in evidence here, so its hardly surprising to see these expressions aired. Really, you can’t even blame people for it. Dean never did. As Sitka pointed out, he admires Nader immensely for his contributions to society and his public service.

Of course, he knows that backing a third party candidate is suicide. Gore will have some shortcomings as a candidate if he runs, as you mention. The fact that some people would shy away from voting from him for this reason shows how far around the bend they are. An academy award winner and Nobel prize nominee, he is an international hero and a liberal standard bearer. For some, good just isn’t good enough.

independents don't like to be taken for granted, or patronized by Democrats.

Instead, since the 80's party has ignored its own platform and base voters and in the process has alienated independent voters as well who see Democrats as standing for nothing

================

thanks for proving my point - BTW nobody likes to be taken for granted

his main thrust is to get the h*ll out of the ME.

Compared to the threat of global climate disaster, that is a secondary concern. There are other and better ways to get us unhooked from oil and out of the ME. Leave Montana's coal in the ground as a monument to the outdated practices of the 20th century.

12.

Fred,

Independents cannot and do not stand for anything at all except standing for -- standing for nothing at all. They are among those that do not help American politics in any way at all. If they want to vote this way or that way or not at all, fine.

I don't believe Democratic candidates should be trying to woo any of them. That makes for a weaker progressive Democratic Party because we would have to lean more and more to the center just for the chance of snagging an I want to be pampered "undecided."

As a poll worker for a number of years, I have seen that Independents are not even good at showing up to vote.

thanks for proving my point -

Thanks for agreeing with mine. 

BTW nobody likes to be taken for granted

Yeah, we both said that already. 

Tom Bearse
Thu, 05/31/07
3:46 pm
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Hmm, I always thought former was freespirit......................either way, I still a 3rd party is the best way to go, after all this IS supposed to be America? Right? rarely do we practice what we preach.................

You're completely right. 

If Independents had a platform perhaps Democrats could successfully campaign on it. But since they don't, Democrats should campaign and govern on their own. The Indys will follow whichever party seems most confident in its own stated beliefs.

Richardson calls for 50% reduction of oil in ten years.  If he's ever lived in the Northeast, he should know that 1/2 the homes are heated with oil.   What about that?  What about power plants?  Autos and trucks are not the only source of consumption, and virtually nothing can be done about semi-trucks except electric trains maybe.

Joan* In*Florida
Thu, 05/31/07
3:51 pm

=============

Sorry but I don't share your definitions and stereotyping of independents.  People who identify themselves as independent voters can be registered with either party but may not think or vote that way.  Such people make up 1/3 of the voters.  Nobody can win without them.  They are probably more sensible that many of the core knee-jerks on the left or right.

in the Northeast, he should know that 1/2 the homes are heated with oil.   What about that?

Let the government pay for people to convert their homes to electric. I wonder how many weeks of the Iraq occupation it would take to pay for it? 

The Indys will follow whichever party seems most confident in its own stated beliefs.

==============

Great stereotyping, Sitka, as usual for you, but wrong again.  Independent see faults in both parties and vote for individuals, not for the  party to which the candidate belongs.   Outside of the political frame of reference, nothing wrong with that, as I see it.

They are probably more sensible that many of the core knee-jerks on the left or right.

Labeling?

I won't argue about who is more or less sensible. But Democrats certainly can't win without Democratic voters, and that's who they've been ignoring and patronizing for the past couple of decades.  

Sounded to me like we agreed more or less. I guess some dogs like to bark so much they'll do it at their own reflection. 

Let the government pay for people to convert their homes to electric. I wonder how many weeks of the Iraq occupation it would take to pay for it?

==============

That would make it worse.  Most energy in the NE comes from fossil fuel plants, and it is much more efficient to make heat directly from oil or gas than to convert it to electricity and also inefficient to transport electric power on transmission lines, which lose power over distance.

Where is all this copper for the electricity conversion going to come from?  Maybe we find it but not in ten years  Meanwhile we drive up world prices so high, developing countries cannot have electric power for basics like refrigerators.

There are no simple solutions - everything has a ripple effect.  I admire anyone proposing ideas but they have to be flexible and open to the law of unexpected consequences

Sounded to me like we agreed more or less. I guess some dogs like to bark so much they'll do it at their own reflection.

================

I'm a border collie.  What are you?

Most energy in the NE comes from fossil fuel plants,

Repost:

http://www.awea.org/pubs/factsheets.html

The wind resource in the United States is vast. Using today’s technology, there is theoretically  enough wind power flowing across the country to supply all of our electricity needs. North Dakota  alone could supply about one third of the nation’s electricity. Adequate winds for commercial power  production are found at sites in 46 states.  However, less than 1% of the nation’s electricity is  currently supplied by wind power.  Only a small portion of the country’s vast potential will likely be  tapped in the near term unless there is a shift in our energy policy priorities toward long-term  support for renewable energy development.

It's time to change. There are no simple solutions, but there are good ones that require only the will and wisdom to do.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Richar...

Secretary of Energy

Richardson as Secretary of EnergySee also: Cox Report and Timeline of Cox Report controversy
The Senate confirmed Richardson to be Clinton's Secretary of Energy on July 31, 1998. His tenure at the Department of Energy was marred by the Wen Ho Lee nuclear espionage scandal. Richardson was also criticized by the Senate for his handling of the espionage inquiry by not testifying in front of Congress sooner. Richardson justified his response by saying that he was waiting to uncover more information before speaking to Congress.[15]

Richardson created the Director for Native American Affairs position in the Department in 1998, and in January 2000 oversaw the largest return of federal lands, 84,000 acres (340 km²) to an Indian Tribe (the Northern Ute Tribe of Utah) in more than 100 years. Richardson also directed the overhaul of the Department's consultation policy with Native American tribes and established the Tribal Energy Program.

With the end of the Clinton administration in January 2001, Richardson commenced teaching at Harvard University's Kennedy School of Government. He also joined Kissinger McLarty Associates, a "strategic advisory firm" headed by former Secretary of State Henry Kissinger and former Clinton White House chief of staff Mack McLarty, as Senior Managing Director.[16]

From 2001 to 2002, he was a lecturer at the Armand Hammer United World College of the American West, a residential high school with students from 90 countries.

---------------------------------------------------------------
Bill Richardson Press Release and Speech on Nuclear Issues

http://www.clw.org/elections/2008/bill_r...

------------------------------------------------------------

http://aaenvironment.blogspot.com/2007/0...

Saturday, January 20, 2007

Bill Richardson, Global Warming & Nuclear Power

Two term governor of New Mexico, former Department of Energy Secretary, former congressman, former U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations Bill Richardson is running for the presidency. He is not enthusiastic about nuclear power, but accepts its usefulness in the energy mix. This makes him lukewarm on global warming. He wants to rely mostly on wind and solar that only operates 30% of the time and cannot dependably provide the electricity we need 24-7-365.

Q. What is the future for nuclear power? (Florida Sun-Sentinel.com)

A. The future in nuclear power is one that has to be on the table. The nuclear option has to be on the table -- not, however, at the expense of investments in renewable energy and technologies, which I believe hold more promise. But because nuclear power emits hardly any greenhouse emissions, and because its technology is improved, you have to look at it as an option. My worry is that there will be such a rebound in nuclear energy that we will not do the necessary investments in renewable technology and distributed generation and fuel cells.

And nuclear power still has to resolve problems in waste, cost, safety, although its safety is improved. And nuclear power still has a lot of problems with the public, which the [nuclear industry] needs to explain, which it has not done so adequately. Politically they've sheltered themselves with one party. So they need to build alliances with environmental leaders, with local officials; they sort of sit in a bunker. But it should be on the table.

What are you?

I'd say I'm a terrier -- earth dog -- of some sort.

I still love Gore and Dean.  What else could Gore say about the war vote if he wants to be a viable candidate?  If you listened carefully and watched his face and body language, it was easy to see that he's not in love with the war vote nor the dems in gen'l.  JMO

It's quite possible he'll pretend to be a sorta I/P ME war dem but don't kid yourself.  He wants us out.  Again, MO.

The perfect is the enemy of the good.

I trust him. I don't trust any of the others.  And the man can put a compound sentence together and doesn't say "him and me saw..."  

The Failing State of Native American Women’s Health: Interview with Charon Asetoyer


Silence is a dangerous thing to fall victim to. Women living on American Indian reservations know this. To this day, the stories of Native American women often remain untold. Geographic isolation and racial segregation have created a world of silence around the problems these women face.

Limited access to health care is one of the most daunting of these problems, according to Charon Asetoyer, Founder and Executive Director of the Native American Women’s Health Education Resource Center. The Center is a grassroots women’s health institute on the Yankton Nakota Indian Reservation in South Dakota. Asetoyer spoke with the Center for American Progress this week about the failures of our federal government to keep women on reservations safe and healthy.

The Indian Health Service, the federal agency responsible for providing health care on all reservations, is failing Native American women on many fronts, says Asetoyer. Native American women do not have access to reproductive health services such as abortion, emergency contraception, and sometimes even condoms. The gravity of this situation is magnified by the high number of rapes and sexual assaults that occur on reservations.

One in three Native American women will be sexually assaulted or raped in her lifetime—a rate 3.5 times higher than all other racial groups. Yet victims of sexual violence often do not receive the treatment and care they need from IHS hospitals. Victims sometimes have to travel hundreds of miles just to receive a rape kit and screening for sexually transmitted infections.

These are human rights violations, Asetoyer says. She discussed with CAP the problems surrounding reproductive health, sexual violence, and environmental health concerns in addition to what she and the Native American Women’s Health Education Resource Center are doing about these problems.

Full Interview: http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/2...

US looking for cease fires in Iraq

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/huff-wires...

It is about time. Getting the locals to stop killing us is a good thing. Now if we can only get them to stop killing each other...
[snip]
Stemming the violence in and around the capital city is key to giving the Iraqi government time to stabilize and move toward reconciliation with the warring sectarian factions. That would then allow the U.S. to begin withdrawing troops.

My thoughts exactly. I always feel Joe is speaking to me and for me.

http://www.realcities.com/mld/krwashingt...

[snip]
While the president turns his back on reality, his failed war and his failed presidency, and as Congress postures and preens, those who daily risk life and limb in Iraq soldier on. They're the best of us, and the best of their generation, and the politicians blather and dither and pontificate while their blood is shed.

 But Democrats certainly can't win without Democratic voters, and that's who they've been ignoring and patronizing for the past couple of decades.

============

Of course, Dems cant win without Dems, but I think you are oversimplify factors of the last couple of decades.  As far as labeling, I was not labeling an individual, but there is a block of voters are one issue voters and others that will vote for party-line Democrats or Republicans regardless of the issues.  That's not labeling, that's a fact.

So here's the disconnect.  The policy is to have a ceasefire, yet leave Iraq to his successor in such straits that we can't get out.

Black is white, up is down, we can get out and stay in at the same time...unless he's thinking of a ceasefire and then staying for 200 years, which is what he actually said when he referenced S. Korea.

Whatta putz.

Where is all this copper for the electricity conversion going to come from?

My first day in 7th grade we were sent to a home room where we filled out forms and were given our class schedules and such before being sent off to our classes. One boy asked the grumpy old man teacher about when the buses would arrive. The teacher said they would be outside the school at closing. The boy then asked how he would know that his bus was there. The teacher told him to check the numkbers on the side. Then the boy asked if the busses would leave without him if he couldn't find his quickly enough.

So the grumpy old man walked up to the boy, looked him in the eye, and said, "You're just making up problems that don't even exist, aren't you? You need to concentrate on what we need to do now and find the right bus when it's time for that." 

If there is or will be a copper shortage, we'll just have to deal with it. And in the meantime, deal with real problems.

Of course, Dems cant win without Dems, but I think you are oversimplify factors of the last couple of decades

I think you like to overcomplify things. 

US looking for cease fires in Iraq

Will Bush cease fire first?

I am glad that Richardson is responding to global warming, and taking the time to really lay out an energy plan.  I would really like to hear more on his (and other candidates) stance on poverty reduction, though.  According to the Borgen Project, we can end world hunger for $19 billion and provide universal education for $12 billion.  While this may seem like a lot of money, it is a drop in the hat compared to our $522 billion defense budget this year.  Completing the Millenium Development Goals is entirely feasible, and with 83% of the public supporting poverty reduction, such an issue should not be overlooked by any presidential hopeful. 

we can end world hunger for $19 billion and provide universal education for $12 billion.

$31B = 16 weeks of Iraq occupation 

Just got a call from our local newspaper to which I write a lot of lte's on the fact that my real estate taxes on my home have gone up over 80% in 4 years.

Talked for a long time. Will be part of a huge article this sunday on how the corporations such as northrup grummand and cannon don't pay their fair share.. In the last 10 years their r.ed taxes have gone up 4%.

Will keep you posted.

36.

My thoughts exactly. I always feel Joe is speaking to me and for me.

=============

A lot of what he said speaks for me too, but what pisses me off how people can make statements like this

... The suicide bombers cut down innocent Iraqis as they shop or walk to school. The death squads come in broad daylight and drag away more innocents to the slaughter for their different belief in a same God."

and then criticize any talk about an exit strategy that would help the "innocent Iraqis."  Either one cares about them or not, and exiting ASAP will not stop the slaughter of these innocents.  If we don't exit with the correct plan, even more will be slaughtered. 

It is not an either / or situation either.  Having a responsible exit strategy does not negate or oppose getting out ASAP.  And it is sad that so many try to frame it that way.  Maybe because they are too ignorant or lazy to study the facts.  It is easier to sloganeer with the crowd, warm and fuzzy too.

If there is or will be a copper shortage, we'll just have to deal with it. And in the meantime, deal with real problems.

===============

Carbon conducts electricity.  They use it for spark plug cables.  Maybe we can kill two birds with one stone.  Any one can may speeches, but what we need is creative ideas and suggestions.

AUS Consultants estimated that a 10% increase in residential bills over the next 10 years