Al Gore is doing a book tour appearance tonight in DC @ 7PM and will be signing
several hundred copies of his books for folks afterwards...so...im not sure how
he can be on PBS and Olberman unless its a simulcast.

(Cindy is still first today)

..or if the interviews with AL are pre-recorded. shame on you Al.

ok..ive got to fix dinner.

i still think we should have a pool, on the day Gore announces.

chiimac wrote "i still think we should have a pool, on the day Gore announces."

chili, I thought you were all about how Gore had to answer for his NAFTA support and role in founding the DLC this weekend.   

Tom,

im just saying he *is* going to announce, im not in love with him. he's
got *much* to prove to me.

chilimac wrote "im just saying [Gore] *is* going to announce, im not in love with him."

That was my mistake.  I was definitely reading too much into your "Gore Watch."

20.

Joan* In*Florida
Joan, thank you for the welcome back and Gore TV :)

Great to hear your report on the book. I yelled at hubby for setting things down on the pristine cover (LOL)
----------------------
Audrey, I sure haven't forgotten Obama and Boxer campaigning for Lieberman, especially after his continued positions on the war and womens issues. Most disappointing indeed they chose to involve themself in the primary. But Obama was working very closely with Lieberman and McCain and Boxer had him on the Environmental Committee that they worked together for years. But what does he do, doesn't support Boxer's Global Warming Bill, instead comes out with a Nuke Bill that Obama supports instead.
--------------------------
Tom, Mr. Gore has mentioned on many occasions, including recently in an interview last week on Larry King and at the Senate Hearings, one of the reasons for him choosing Lieberman as a running mate was primarily because of his work on the environment. Of course, he is very candid that he is not happy with the direction Joe Lieberman has gone with the War and he opposes it.

Linda wrote "I sure haven't forgotten Obama and Boxer's campaigning for Lieberman, especially after his continued positions on the war and womens issues. Most disappointing indeed they chose to involve themself in the primary."

" . . . .

"Mr. Gore has mentioned on many occasions, including recently in an interview last week on Larry King and at the Senate Hearings, one of the reasons for him choosing Lieberman as a running mate was primarily because of his work on the environment. Of course, he is very candid that he is not happy with the direction Joe Lieberman has gone with the War and he opposes it."

This is one of example of exactly what I find so mystifying.  The knife never slices both ways.  I'll admit to not swooning over the positions of Gore, Lieberman or Obama all the time, but why should one be vilified, one be criticized, and one get a free pass?  They've all been cohorts or opponents to one extent or another at different times.  Obviously people see things differently on discrete issues, even if they're all Democrats and former Democrats.  Of the three, I see the least division between Gore and Obama.

AND WAY TO GO SHERI, thank you for additional Gore TV appearances.


Yes Chilimac, it would appear something has to be pre recorded. I'm sure Countdown is. He records his show, I believe about 3 to 4 hours before we see it. Jim Lehrer's is a surprise, so I dunno on that.


Direct video link for the Hour long interview Charlie Rose had with Al Gore on Friday night.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=...+Rose+and+Gore&hl=en

8.

Tom Bearse

tom, I don't know what you're talking about.

I specifically responded to direct comments Audrey made about not commenting on the campaigning Obama and Boxer did for Lieberman.

And your guessing of Gore's choosing of Lieberman.


Now you wish to add something more in to the conversation that was initialized from the get go.

Don't bring a knife to a gun fight...uh er conversation?

should have been

Now you wish to add something more in to the conversation that was NOT initialized from the get go.

Don't bring a knife to a gun fight...uh er conversation?

Romney pledges salary to charity if elected President.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/05/29/romney.wealth.ap/index.html

Is this a way to get votes? 

Linda wrote "Mr. Gore has mentioned on many occasions, including recently in an interview last week on Larry King and at the Senate Hearings, one of the reasons for him choosing Lieberman as a running mate was primarily because of his work on the environment. Of course, he is very candid that he is not happy with the direction Joe Lieberman has gone with the War and he opposes it."

Then wrote "tom, I don't know what you're talking about."

Oh, sorry. Do you conclude, on some basis, that Obama didn't support Lieberman in the primary because of his work on the environment, and is happy with the direction Joe Lieberman has gone with the war, which he opposes?

Tom LOL man are you stretching this argument of yours.

We all can count. We know the war started after Al Gore had chosen Lieberman to be his running mate. As a matter of fact Joe Lieberman lost ALOT OF SUPPORT because of the his conduct during the campaign and since then.

But if you want to make the argument that Obama was supporting Lieberman, for his environmental work, (I'm really not getting your argument here ) great, it still STUNK. I don't care that what reasons they campaigned for Lieberman during the primary. They both did. And it was still wrong and he still was advocating for the war which made him an unattractive person to be campaigning for.

Do you feel better now?

Linda,

I'd appreciate it if you would do a post here at bfa explainging your
position/feelings on Richardson.

Linda, do I correctly understand everything you wrote in response to my question as meaning "no"?

12.

Lynn Worpenberg

LOL Apparently. It will probably help too, according to some minds.

16.

Tom Bearse
Tue, 05/29/07
5:35 pm



Linda, do I correctly understand everything you wrote in response to my question as meaning "no"?


---------------

where do you draw that from? Or are you delayed on response.

Linda and Tom, in not sure what the hell you two are saying to each other.
:)

and Lynn, i think Mitt is just trying too buy(ha!) himself some
'free' press for his campaign.
he's not coming across as a particularly bright guy to me.
some business man.

Linda wrote "where do you draw that from? Or are you delayed on response. "

I had asked "Do you conclude, on some basis, that Obama didn't support Lieberman in the primary because of his work on the environment, and is happy with the direction Joe Lieberman has gone with the war, which he opposes?"

Is the answer "no"?

Chilimac, are you serious or are yo teasing me? :)

I have written a few times some of reasons I'm not supportive of Governor Richardson, well, actually, not just nonsupportive, but bad for President. And I wouldn't want to bore folks unnecessarily.

Run Al run!

17, Linda, something tells me the the salary would be a drop in the bucket for him. 

But if he donates it to me I MIGHT be persuaded to vote for him  :-)    NOT!

Lynn in Cincinnati

I like Linda, Susan, and many others, am holding out for Gore!

OK, Tom, I'll repeat this s l o w e r

"But if you want to make the argument that Obama was supporting Lieberman, for his environmental work, (I'm really not getting your argument here ) g r e a t , i t s t i l l STUNK. I don't care that what reasons they campaigned for Lieberman during the primary. They both did. And it was still wrong and he still was advocating for the war which made him an unattractive person to be campaigning for.

yes, Linda i was serious.

i know about his pro-baseball career but certainly there is more...

23.

Lynn Worpenberg

LOL Yeah, he learned from Clinton. He can have one speaking engagement in a year after the presidency and rake in more than the years entire salary.

Boxer and Webb will be at the TBA conference along with Hillary and Pelosi.

Boy am I going to give them a piece of my mind. The twits.

I am loaded for bear. Truly

gonna stand up at the awards dinner and aske Boxer, who is getting an award, why did u endorse Lie berman? He is ruining this country.

Linda in NM is my hero cause she is just as pissed off as me.

Yep, I used to tell my mom that I should run for President, do something 'bad' but not too bad, be 'gracious' enough to resign, and then make money traveling around speaking to people.

should have done it!  LOL

 Lynn in Cincinnati

Linda b,

you can tell them that you are speaking for A LOT OF PEOPLE

If you look at Boxer's ties($$$$$$$) to Aipac, i think you'll see why she
supported Lieberman

Give 'em some hell Linda b

chilimac wrote "Linda and Tom, in not sure what the hell you two are saying to each other."

It's fairly simple.  Linda wrote to Audrey to commiserate with her about Obama and Boxer's support for Lieberman in the primary.  She then explained the reason Gore chose Lieberman as a running mate.

There is a trend with a history discernable in these comments.  Obama is a bastard for supporting Lieberman and, in turn the war.  Obama doesn't support the war, but you're to assume he does because he hasn't supported an immediate withdrawal bill, although he has sponsored a timetable and did not vote for the supplemental.  You're not to assume, for example, that he supports Lieberman for his environmental policies, but if you do, they stink anyway.

Gore is well regarded, although he chose Lieberman to be Vice President, because he doesn't support the war,  despite the fact that he's taken no public position on the supplemental.  He said he selected Lieberman for his environmental policies.  It is of no moment whether they stink.  You have to bring up Obama's name to extract that detail. 

When Joshua Frank pens an article on Gore (or Dean), it is a scurilous hit piece.  When he writes about Obama, it is a well reasoned analysis based on self-evident fact.  Supposedly, this is obvious to the reader.  That's the source of the reference to a knife cutting one way. 

24.

Lynn Worpenberg
Tue, 05/29/07
5:41 pm

I like Linda, Susan, and many others, am holding out for Gore!


-----

Linda,

You can count my hubby in too!

oops sorry Lynn.

Chilimac,

I did not appreciate Governor Richardson telling Howard Dean to get out of the race and make room for Kerry.

He doubled the cost of recounts after the state had numerous problems with their Es&S machines that are now sitting in the wharehouse collecting dust after spending the millions on them when there were wide spread reported problem before buying them. He then after having those ballots destroyed, bought paper ballot machines for the next election.

He didn't want the Governor to be Chair of the DNC and tried conspiring with Ed Rendell of PA to limit the Chair's job responsibilities. (funny how they both now ask for Gov Dean's help-Rendell in his re-election)Both are DLC's also.

Richardon is very Conservative, Corporatist. He dangerously plays to close the graft of tax dollars for private business for contributions. Numerous examples and he just explains away as "I didn't curry favors for those". It's just funny he gets 100k or 150 K contributions after making a deal that tax dollars will be helping bring this .....new business or build a new facility for....

He is synonymous with cronyism and has grow the government by the most incredible amount with this waste.

They don't have the money to hire State employees even. The money is not going towards the cities. Roads falling apart, let alone no new roads for the growing population.

He wastes so much. He has the state buy a totally new computer system so he can use his Blackberry.

He is a total control freak. He does not believe in open government. He's top down all the way. Very secretive...or tries to.

There is now a current audit that is going from State to Federal level for the computer system for the states Payroll that he also brought in that is a total sham. He TOLD his secretaries to buy it, cutting down the price for it to work, still costing millions and wouldn't allow testing first before bringing it on line and now there are employees that haven't collected pay from a year ago.


Does this help

See, tom you now just want to guess and insert other conversations in to a very current clear conversation.

Just trying to distort the my direct comment at the very beginning of this thread.

Just quote one piece and drag in guesses and past conversations, all of which have nothing to do with the current.

Scroll by

Thank you miss linda b,

BUT YOU ARE MY HERO!

Yes Linda, that helps.
:)

Thanks!

I knew he was DLC, but all in all he doesnt get the coverage back East
like the candidates in Congress do. I know he pulled some kind of sham
in the vote counting in 04 there in NM but i honestly didnt recall him
telling Dean to scram-but I believe you. I trust your judgement. I think
he could still land on the bottom half of the ticket-but i'm hoping not.

Tom , thanks for the explanation-i think.
;)

36.
Wasn't Richardson involved in scandals while he was head of the DOEnergy?
Wasn't a big stink raised with losing top secret information at LosAlimos?
If I remember correctly, his stint at DOE was lackluster at best.

Tom wrote:

21.

Tom Bearse
Tue, 05/29/07
4:05 pm

Reply to this


audrey wrote "What I wanna know is. of all the things that rile up the blog, why is it ignored that Obama and Boxer campaigned for and praised Lieberman?"


>>>LINDA WROTE: Audrey, I sure haven't forgotten Obama and Boxer campaigning for Lieberman, especially after his continued positions on the war and womens issues. Most disappointing indeed they chose to involve themself in the primary. But Obama was working very closely with Lieberman and McCain and Boxer had him on the Environmental Committee that they worked together for years. But what does he do, doesn't support Boxer's Global Warming Bill, instead comes out with a Nuke Bill that Obama supports instead.



AGAIN, TOM WROTE: Gore chose Lieberman as his vice-presidential nominee. He must have detected something worthwhile in his candidacy, presumably because Lieberman was an old time civil rights proponent, who does not have a partiuclarly conservative voting record. The exception is his war support, which presumably persuaded Gore to back Dean.

>>>LINDA WROTE in response to above: Tom, Mr. Gore has mentioned on many occasions, including recently in an interview last week on Larry King and at the Senate Hearings, one of the reasons for him choosing Lieberman as a running mate was primarily because of his work on the environment. Of course, he is very candid that he is not happy with the direction Joe Lieberman has gone with the War and he opposes it.


Pretty clear to me. But I guess you just didn't like my response, huh. That will teach me for not agreeing with you that Gore supported Lieberman for Civil Rights as he stated was for his Global Warming efforts.


Sheesh.

DONE!

41.

dog soldier

yes, but like so many are saying, "his resume reads well" :)

Coming to Nashville
Al Gore is Coming to Nashville!
Friday, June 1 at 12:00 Noon
AL GORE
signs
The Assault on Reason

Davis-Kidd Booksellers is proud to host former Vice President of the United States Al Gore for a booksigning of his new book, The Assault on Reason on Friday, June 1 at 12:00 noon. The former vice president presents a visionary analysis of how the politics of fear, secrecy, cronyism, and blind faith of the Bush-led radical Right has combined with the degradation of the public sphere to create an environment dangerously hostile to reason. Line numbers are required for the signing and are available with the purchase of The Assault on Reason.

This is hysterical. This Joe does great work!


video
current tv

http://www.current.tv/pods/issue/PD03611...

DESCRIPTION
What should they teach in sex ed class - abstinence, contraception or both? Joe gets to the bottom of things in his own educational video and snags a guest appearance by Bino White.

Just wanted to mention that Subway has a post up at HEP about caregiving. I'm a day late getting it posted after spending all day yesterday helping Son in Ohio get data for la project. Also, in case this hasn't been posted, below Subway's post is the message listener wrote in response to Cindy Sheehan last night. Clicky if you're interested.

Email Tax Coming

NY Times | May 28, 2007 
Brendan Carlin and John Steele

The era of tax-free e-mail, Internet shopping and broadband connections could end this fall, if recent proposals in the U.S. Congress prove successful. State and local governments this week resumed a push to lobby Congress for far-reaching changes on two different fronts: gaining the ability to impose sales taxes on Net shopping, and being able to levy new monthly taxes on DSL and other Internet-service connections. One senator is even predicting taxes on e-mail.

Pro-tax advocates this week advanced a flurry of proposals pushing in that direction. A bill was introduced that would usher in mandatory sales tax collection for Internet purchases. Then, during a House of Representatives hearing the same day, politicians weighed whether to let a temporary ban on Net access taxes lapse when it expires on November 1. A House backer of another pro-sales tax bill said to expect a final version by July.

The response to the moves in CNET News.com's TalkBack forum was overwhelmingly negative, mostly along antitax convictions. However, some readers took a bigger-picture approach to the situation.

"Half the reason the Internet has become so successful is because the government has had little involvement."
-- CNET News.com reader

"Half the reason the Internet has become so successful is because the government has had little involvement," wrote one reader to the forum.

The U.S. Congress is also poised to create a set of massive new government databases that all employers must use to investigate the immigration status of current and future employees or face stiff penalties. The so-called Employment Eligibility Verification System would be established as part of a bill that senators began debating on Monday. The procedure that is likely to continue through June and would represent the most extensive rewrite of immigration and visa laws in a generation.

Because anyone who fails a database check would be out of a job, the proposed database already has drawn comparisons with the "no-fly list" and is being criticized by civil libertarians and business groups.

All employers--at least 7 million, according to the U.S. Chamber of Commerce--would be required to verify identity documents provided by both existing employees and potential hires, the legislation says. The data, including Social Security numbers, would be provided to Homeland Security, on penalty of perjury, and the government databases would provide a work authorization confirmation within three business days.

Charlie Sheen Responds To New York Post Hit Piece
Actor: "My views and convictions regarding 9/11 have not wavered"

Prison Planet | May 28, 2007
Charlie Sheen

COMMENT FROM ALEX JONES

More disgusting spin from Rupert Murdoch's News Corp. I awoke Memorial Day to see more than a dozen news stories trumpeting that Charlie Sheen was no longer involved in Loose Change Final Cut. Within hours, the distortions of Page Six (known for blackmailing people with real and manufactured dirt) had mutated into complete fairy tales in other publications alleging 9/11 truth was a dying fad, and that Rosie O'Donnell had also deserted the movement.

If the New World Order wants to hide their crimes of 9/11 they're going to have to do a better job than this.

Charlie Sheen courageously followed his conscience when he publicly questioned the official 9/11 fable - that angers the establishment and they desperately want to create the illusion that he has recanted - not just in an attempt to discredit Mr. Sheen, but to scare other prominent members of the community from going public as well.

Below are the cold hard facts directly from Charlie Sheen.

Charlie Sheen has issued a brief statement in response to a New York Post article that claimed he was having "second thoughts" about his involvement in Loose Change Final Cut and the 9/11 Truth Movement as a whole.

(Article continues below)

My views and convictions regarding the events of 9/11 have not wavered. I still firmly believe the citizens of this great country, especially the family members of those tragically lost, deserve a much more accurate and thorough investigation surrounding the horrific events.

The suspicious fact that certain relevant testimonies were not included in the Keen Commission's final report, discredits the majority of their findings. A bi-partisan, democratically selected panel needs to be established that would include (but not limited to), victim family members, firefighters, rescue workers as well as key eye witnesses to the various crime scenes. Not some tepid rehash of Bush-serving lap-dogs cherry picking evidence to support erroneous and fictional "Magic Bullet" explanations.

We will not tolerate any testimony behind closed doors from subjects not placed "Under Oath". We will not tolerate the real and hard questions being dismissed for reasons of "National Security". We will not tolerate our freedom of speech being dismantled and ignored as not to "Disrespect the deceased".

I'm baffled as well by the fact Bin Laden's crimes listed on the FBI's most wanted list DO NOT include those of 9/11. If you do not believe me, see for yourselves -

http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/terrorists/terbinladen.htm

As far as "Loose Change- Final Cut" is concerned, I await the newest version to be presented to me, at which point I will make my decision to participate (or not) based on the film's content and merit.

I remain patriotically steadfast.

Charlie Sheen.

John Dean's book Conservatives Without Conscience, which came out last summer
is now down to $5.19 for the hardback @ Amazon. Ive been wanting to read this
since it came out so Ive ordered it and it should arrive the end of the week. Reviews
were good, but I havent personally read it yet so....

Anyway, IF you were thinking about getting this book and never got
around to it(like me), then this is your chance..

http://www.amazon.com/Conservatives-With...

The NYT's resident Conservative Idiot, David Brooks, did a hatchet job on Al in today's edition. Sample:

"Gore’s imperviousness to reality is not the most striking feature of the book. It’s the chilliness and sterility of his worldview. Gore is laying out a comprehensive theory of social development, but it allows almost no role for family, friendship, neighborhood or just face-to-face contact. He sees society the way you might see it from a speaking podium — as a public mass exercise with little allowance for intimacy or private life. He envisions a sort of Vulcan Utopia, in which dispassionate individuals exchange facts and arrive at logical conclusions.

This, in turn, grows out of a bizarre view of human nature. Gore seems to have come up with a theory that the upper, logical mind sits on top of, and should master, the primitive and more emotional mind below. He thinks this can be done through a technical process that minimizes information flow to the lower brain and maximizes information flow to the higher brain.

The reality, of course, is that there is no neat distinction between the “higher” and “lower” parts of the brain. There are no neat distinctions between the “rational” mind and the “visceral” body. The mind is a much more complex network of feedback loops than accounted for in Gore’s simplistic pseudoscience"

There's much more of thesame sort of drivel in his piece.

Love ya Cindy!!

New Video Compilation: 9/11 The Explosive Reality

9/11 Blogger | May 28, 2007 

This is truly an extraordinary compilation of news footage, much of which I've never seen before (and I've seen a LOT), that details beyond a doubt what happened that day in New York, with lots of previously unseen clips from the Pentagon, Shanksville, and suspicious statements by government officials.

A YouTube user named poliunsaturated has posted 9 parts, plus a trailer, as of this writing, but part 9 ends rather suddenly, so there may be more to come. It is also downloadable as a 1 GB AVI file torrent if you just do a google search on 9/11 The Explosive Reality.

There is no narration, just sub-titles and the odd full screen text, but someone has gone to an awful lot of work here combing through hours upon hours of news archives, and the way the clips tell the story is quite compelling.

Check it out!

Link to all 9 parts: http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=poliunsaturated&p=r

http://www.counterpunch.org/swanson05292007.html

A clear and growing majority of Americans wants to end the occupation. Yet many people are opposed to defunding it. So, not enough of us have learned that you cannot end this occupation without defunding it. Because we haven't faced up to a choice between continuing the occupation and defunding it, we allow Congress Members to make anti-occupation gestures and then fund the occupation, not in order to prolong the occupation and fund its profiteers, but "for the troops."

As long as we allow the pretense to continue that wars are fought on behalf of the young men and women sent to fight them, we will never see a serious effort on the part of the Democratic leadership in Congress to end the occupation of Iraq. One thing many people have gradually come to realize is that we have not seen such an effort yet, only pretenses of it. Certainly, some who now disapprove of what the Congress just passed still think they were right to support what it was doing two months ago, and it's less important to return to that debate than to get our act together from here on out. But we are more likely to make wise decisions in the future if we learn the right lessons from our mistakes.

By May 23rd, Congress Members Pelosi and David Obey had turned against their own bill. They were going to make sure it came up for a vote and passed, but they were going to vote against it.

While Pelosi was "opposing" the bill, she was also beginning to take heat from all sides for having brought the bill up for a vote and assured its passage. She voted No, but she did not whip, cajole, threaten, or bribe her colleagues to join her against the occupation as she had done to get them to join her for it. During the debate on the floor prior to the vote, Pelosi, Obey, and others made clear that they wanted the bill to pass and considered it necessary "for the troops."

No one mentioned that not a single troop gets a single dollar because the occupation continues, or that the Congressional Research Service said in April that the occupation was already funded through July, or that polls of troops in Iraq last year found that a strong majority wanted to end the occupation last year, or that most of the money goes to occupation-profiteers.

51.

Huron John

It's almost funny, because the ramblings of nonsense.

Someone had a good diary on it over on kos earlier pointing out his own redundant statements.

Brooks Column shows Fear of Gore [Updated]
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/5/29/...

Be well and play nice .

bbl

5000 signatures in a week.

Signatures | Total: 85,015

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/algor...

His interview with Larry King was brilliant. Unfortunately, he will not be running for president. One thing he did say was that we need to get out of Iraq but ensure that the things don't fall apart as we do withdraw. I completely agree and it is one of the reasons I have been against the troop withdrawal votes in recent months. Democrats and Congress need to find a viable way to leave Iraq without it being in ruins. Simply leaving without planning would be a disaster, another Afghanistan. The US needs to join together with the rest of the world leaders in figuring out a multilateral way of ending terrorism and Mid-East tensions without engaging in war.

To really get at the root of terrorism, global poverty needs to be addressed. Our leaders need to not abandon Iraq, but support its growth and the growth of other undeveloped countries by funding the UN Millennium Development Goals. According to the Borgen Project, just 0.16% of out federal budget is spent on poverty reduction while $340 billion has been spent on the war. We need to redirect our funds to programs that will work to combat the conditions that enable extremism to exist. We can’t fight terror with terror in a country we are espousing peace to; there needs to be an alternative.

In 2000, I had no problems with Lieberman being part of the Presidential ticket. I knew of Joe as a heavy lifter for the environment and civil rights movements. I thought he was needed to add new england balance to a midsoutherner. Iraq hadn't happened yet.

He voted for the Iraq authorization as did many. My thoughts are mixed as I followed Kerry's lead as something he would want and all hoped Bush would really work at diplomacy because no logical person wants war. I was not happy with Congress giving up their constitutional authority.
We whatdoyouthinkhappenednext?

There is a lot of blame to go around...
Congress gave up their authority to Bush.
Bush broke everyone's trust - which he had done earlier.
Congress folks were too lazy to look at the available evidence.
Dems - as usual - don't want to be seen as weak in anything. Dems - and especially Kerry - should know that it is easy to get in a war and start killing folks. It is damn hard to get out of one.

Cutting the funding is the only way out. Once power to wage war was given to Bush, it can't be taken away. Congress controls the purse strings. That is their only leverage.

To compare our political affiliation based on the use of one term is rediculous

The comparison wasn't of your political affiliations but rather your use of language.

As rdorgan has demonstrated on this thread -- you don't have to be a Republican to use their talking points

==============

You were using one term, Sitka, and blasting an opinion by calling it a "Republican talking point" it one of your cheapest cheap shots. You don't want to discuss issues.  It is easier to hurl personal insults and name call someone "a Republican."  It is your stock and trade along with your second rate humor. 

 Our leaders need to not abandon Iraq, but support its growth and the growth of other undeveloped countries by funding the UN Millennium Development Goals.

Yep. 

58.
Planning is not the problem. There are many viable plans out there. The problem is getting the Iraq folks and especially the leadership to go along with them. Their ideas go from wanting us to stay to wanting us to leave ASAP.
The Iraq legislature want us out now.
The leaders have a bias to maintaining the status quo. Both Miliki and Sadhr stay in power as long as there is tit-for-tat killing.
All we are doing is help push the Shiites toward Iran.

Any solution will result in a bloodbath.
I always ask what is the effect on the Iraq children? We know we have ruined the lives of Iraq kids now.
We must leave in a methodical and systematic manner. This will force the Iraq people to face up to the fact that they are on their own and work with each other.

My grandkids are 10-15. I went to VN at 20. I sure hope this and other Bush messes are resolved by then.

The UN is treating Iraq like the giant manure pile it is. There is little - if at all - any UN assistance with the many refugees that have left Iraq and are flooding Syria (and others).

Cutting the funding is the only way out. Once power to wage war was given to Bush, it can't be taken away. Congress controls the purse strings. That is their only leverage.

==================

I don't pretend to be an appropriation expert or a legislative expert, but from what I understand, Bush would have just taken the money from social programs.  How do we get around that?  Suggestions any one?

It seems going beyond making a statement, all the real effect would have been just giving red meat to red States for memorial day.  What am I not seeing here?  Anyone?

dog soldier
Tue, 05/29/07
7:30 pm

================

The UN has over $50 billion in pledge money for rebuilding Iraq, but cannot do it until there is relative law and order.

64,
Fred,
Money could be appropriated to fund training Iraq troops (which may or may not be a good thing), supplies and equipment. It does not fund any more troop increases. The scope of our activty will be very limited.
There has to be some kind of a timetable and some kind of benchmarks or funding is decreased.
Bush can be restricted from stealing money from social programs because Congress controls that money also.

The problem is Congress caved because they are not convinced or confident of their own power.

thank you, Daniel.  I've watched the first 2 videos.  What was that fireball and that collapse sure looked like a detonation to me and people were describing sounds like bombs going off. 

I bought Chinese and am about to sit down with chopsticks and Keith.  :-)

Again, Daniel, good stuff you're posting. 

fred, where is the info on the money for iraq?

65.
That could be a carrot to get the shooting stopped. That is just a drop in the bucket to what is needed. The US taxpayers will probaly end up paying the same amount to rebuild as was spent totally to now. The problem now is most of the money is going to US contractors and their personel; not the out-of-work Iraqis. Besides, anything they build is blown up.

I think instead of military bases, build Home Depots, Lowes' and Starbucks (at least they can get a good cup of coffee).

Bush is finially talking with Iraq. That is great.
But unless there is dialog with Iraq leaders and the other neighbors then this thing will never end - until the oil contracts are signed.

I meant talking with Iran...

USA Today, CNN and everywhere else of consequence:

Our country is bankrupt and, as I have always contended, this war was always more about bankrupting American than oil. The bankruptcy is working, the oil is not.

Now what? Social Security, Medicare/Medicaid, tons of retirement benefits state and federal Now what?  At the very least, I would think this would just about be the last straw for Republicans, the "conservative" party that has bankrupted America.

JIM LEHRER  just said AL GORE WILL BE ON TOMORROW NIGHT'S SHOW (NOT TONIGHT)

Read your posts Linda NM, hang in there,

bbl

Fred,
If you don't agree with my proposal - which assumes Bush will not facillitate dialog among the many players - then the only action is to stay there and watch the carnage.

The Iraqis need a push to start a process to end the slaughter. Forcing a date for our leaving is the only way to get dialog started.

It doesn't matter what or if the UN will do or what kind of money and grants are out there. If discussions amonst the stakeholders is not done, the war will last forever.

Fred,
If you don't agree with my proposal - which assumes Bush will not facillitate dialog among the many players - then the only action is to stay there and watch the carnage.

The Iraqis need a push to start a process to end the slaughter. Forcing a date for our leaving is the only way to get dialog started.

=============

It's not about with what I agree or disagee.  It is about feasibility.  If you cannot override a veto, how much power do you have?

This brings to mind Kerry's statement and why he is exceptionally damned for going along with Bush. He knew what the outcome would be as he went thru this kind of mess earlier.

"Who wants to be the last to die for a mistake?"

But with no money, there is no war...
Bush faced the prospect of leaving quicker.
He bet that Dems would fold and he was correct.

If Dems called him - which is the veto - Bush would have to bring them home sooner.

Goodnight all...I'll catch up on posts tomorrow...

58.

If poverty is the root of terrorism, what Mr. Bush's excuse?

This argument reminds me of the case for tearing down our major American cities and relocating the residents to the suburbs. 

Gore for President.

So now Congress is so threatened by real discussion and the truth coming out, it has to try and clamp down, tax us, discourage exchange of info etc.

The whole damn lot should be impeached.   Each day of news disgusts me freshly.

Gore is doing a great job of running not running.

The second he jumps in, WE NEED A BAT,  HQ! 

10 more dead today and so now we've reached the double digits and putz says it'll get worse.

Hannah's Blog looks nice, Monica.

My favorite song today is Elephant Gun by Beirut.

More Gore with Keith tomorrow night.

Gore claims he's not good at politics but I would say he's become a master.  I'd be very surprised if he didn't run and he's ruled out a cabinet position.

Gore/Feingold/Moyers (Russ didn't say anything about not being VP, did he)?

Re: Boxer...we'll never have a perfect critter unless you believe in perfect spouses.

To boo Miss USA or whomever she is is a nasty sign of the ugliness felt for us.  I can see booing putz, but a woman who has nothing to do with politics? 

I'm not at all being comfortable being hated.  Putz does it much better altho he looks very drained.  Guess he needs more drugs and maybe some meth would perk him up. 

How do we get over pissiness? :-)

Let the seasons begin - Take the big king down.

YES, YES, YES,

We the People must reclaim our Democracy and ensure our President be Al Gore!

I am such a happy camper. Al Gore galore :)
and
I have strawberries already ripening!


bbl

85. I think at this point -- Al Gore is the only person who can help put the country on the right track. I sure hope he runs.

I missed Al Gore on KO due to biking and running, but can somebody give me a quick assesment of the interview? Thanks............

dog soldier
Tue, 05/29/07
7:46 pm
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Im begining to enjoy your sense of humour.........real pub grit..................ant chance of hearing some vietnam war stories?

fred, where is the info on the money for iraq?

=============

Googled a lot and could not find it, but heard it from a couple of sources.  There would have been much pain without the social funding in this bill, nonetheless.  Whether that alone would have been worth it for the squeeze on Bush is a hard call.  It would not have ended the war.  That's for sure.  It will take a much bigger bill to do that.

Bush:  “Uh yeah my Surge Plan....uh…you see...it includes a lot more of our soldiers being killed or wounded…in other words…uh..yeah…you have to expect that.   It’ll be a tough kind of month or two”.    GREAT PLAN GEORGE!   

I missed Al Gore on KO due to biking and running, but can somebody give me a quick assesment of the interview? Thanks............ 

He spoke mostly about how the public and policy have been manipulated by lies and propaganda.

20. Joan on the last thread

Use a different browser. Aparently the DemocracyFest website is not comapatable with AOL Browser. Download a different one like Opera or Firefox. You'll thank me later anyway ;-)

83.

Tom Bearse
Tue, 05/29/07
8:28 pm


Let the seasons begin - Take the big king down.
------------
To put up another one instead?
Won't work..., AGAIN!

Al Gore will be on Newshour with Jim Lehrer on PBS tomorrow, not today!

former wrote: "To put up another one instead? Won't work..., AGAIN!"

No, I'm telling you, it rips through the silence of our camp at night, and it rips through the silence, all that is left is all that I hide. 

I would like to try your posts out as song lyrics.  I think they have real possibilities. 

from what I understand, Bush would have just taken the money from social programs

Bush can't take money appropriated specifically for one purpose and use it for another.

U.S. Constitution (Article I, Sec. 9, Clause 7)  No money shall be drawn from the Treasury, but in Consequence of Appropriations made by Law.

The power to appropriate is exclusively a legislative power. The executive branch may not spend more than the amount appropriated, and it may use available funds only for the purposes established by Congress.

96.

Tom Bearse
Tue, 05/29/07
9:42 pm

...I think they have real possibilities.
----------
...lol, do you need my permission?
You've got it.

there are discretionary funds, however, much of which is derived from classified sections of the budget. i wonder if there's accountability once funds are transfered this way? there could be any amount available? the war's been funded on supplementals only, i believe.

do depts. and agencies get a check at the start of the fiscal or do they write checks on the treasury letterhead?

military paychecks are from the treasury.

do depts. and agencies get a check at the start of the fiscal or do they write checks on the treasury letterhead?

Don't know. 

Years ago I had a job with the US Forest Sevice and my checks had the signature of the Treasury Secretary. 

I know that the Northwest States, especially Oregon, are tettering between Blue and Red majority.  Rural communities were really hurt from forest fires and environmental regulations that cut back on logging revenues for rural communities.  There was lots of overharvesting and mismanagement of forests over the years too, like brush overgrowth and needed thinning that was never done, but the Neocons and logging companies have been very successful in blaming environmental regulations for all these problems leading to less timber, when in reality it is just the opposite.

This bill had compensation for communities hit by losses of logging revenues due to environmental regulation and will greatly enhance Democratic and environmental support  in the next election in Oregon and Washington,  Idaho and California too

Bush can't take money appropriated specifically for one purpose and use it for another

===========

Maybe you're right - I don't really know, but there are some discretionary funds, like mprov said.  How much of that there is left for Bush to pillage, I don't know.

I don't blame the Left for making this vote important and trying to cut off funds - what  bothers me is the contempt for those Democrats who saw reasons to vote for it.  It would have been a moral victory, but the long term political consequences and the real effect on the troop safety from this one bill, both are unknowns.

If we are going to end this war with funding, it better be  a "knock-out" or we could win the proverbial round and lose the fight.

what  bothers me is the contempt for those Democrats who saw reasons to vote for it.

It's good for them. Keeping their feet in the fire keeps them from acting entirely like Republicans all the time. 

I don't blame the Left

Which "Left"? Fred from OR's? Cindy Sheehan's? Rush Limbaugh's? 

If we are going to end this war with funding, it better be  a "knock-out" or we could win the proverbial round and lose the fight.

Doing what's right wins the fight. Playing third rail politics is what got Democrts run out of power for over a decade. 

the real effect on the troop safety from this one bill, both are unknowns.

The troops will be safer out of Iraq than in it. 

108.  That's right!  New thread, BTW

108.  That's right!  New thread, BTW

Oh my.  We need to get Mrs. Ashcroft under oath NOW.

Bush's Role in Wiretapping Debate Probed
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/052907R.shtml
According to Newsweek, President Bush's role "has remained shadowy throughout the controversy over the eavesdropping program. But there are strong suggestions that he was an active presence. On the night after [former AG John] Ashcroft's operation, as Ashcroft lay groggy in his bed, his wife, Janet, took a phone call. It was Andy Card, asking if he could come over with [Alberto] Gonzales [now attorney general] to speak to Ashcroft. Mrs. Ashcroft said no, her husband was too sick for visitors. The phone rang again, and this time Mrs. Ashcroft acquiesced to a visit from the White House officials. Who was the second caller - one with enough power to persuade Mrs. Ashcroft to relent? The former Ashcroft aide who described this scene would not say, but senior DOJ officials had little doubt who it was - the president."

Sitka

=====

your mother

What a weird thing to say.

Oh well....THAT'S OUR FRED! 

Gonzales must be impeached!  Gore must run - he'd be a shoe in and i'd suggest Webb as VP.

BTW whoever made that second phone call could be known by a Law & Order action - getting the "luds" from her phone would garner that information.  If Bush can wiretap America - why can't we wiretap him right back - IN HIS FACE!  My guess would be it was Rove.

Lieberman is a traitor to the Party and to America.  Anyone who has or is supporting him needs a shave with a dull razor.

Al Gore selected him as a running mate THEN but now knows better.  I support Al Gore for 2008!