Dean is first.

And I don't do phones, if I can help it.  Fortunately, our Congresswoman doesn't have to be micromanaged.   

What's with the thread breakout?

Thread breakout - just that the new email went out and they're always a new thread :-)

I responded to a few of your HSA observations on the last thread, Thankful.  I won't bring them over out of fear of the risk of boring innocent bystanders.

1.

Our US Rep also does not need contacting, ever, by phone or email. I have never known Corrine Brown to vote any way that we wouldn't have.

Hi Tom, had to get something from the car. You wrote - Don’t misunderstand. HSA’s are surely not designed to alter human nature. They’re just a way to utilize the natural instincts of people to help try and reduce health care costs.

...just seeing contradictions in the logic and playing devil's advocate... You said, 'This proposal just motivates people to think twice about seeking out health care treatment if it’s not completely necessary, because they have to pay out of pocket first.' and, 'With the account, the money is already dedicated, and the expenditure gets you closer to your coverage threshold.'

Then in theory, wouldn't the cheaters and hypochondriacs, especially those with smaller accounts, spend it out fast and
take advantage of the system the rest of the year? Rhetorical question really, matters not because of course there will always be the relatively few who cheat a system and your model does mitigate incentive to do so.

BTW, I'm not against your HSA model, in fact I'm all for any plan that enables and encourages preventive care. Reducing healthcare costs is an inevitable result when illness is caught early on and emergency room care isn't the only resort available for mundane treatments.

1/5. Lucky ladies. I'm not so fortunate with Mark Kirk (IL-10)as a rep. and I hate to call his office.

Thankful wrote "Then in theory, wouldn't the cheaters and hypochondriacs, especially those with smaller accounts, spend it out fast and take advantage of the system the rest of the year?"

They may very well.  I mean, I can't stop them, no one else is stopping them, and no health savings account will stop them.  The only penalty they risk is spending down the account funds that they would otherwise be able to keep, use better, roll over or whatever else you can reasonably do with that money.

More reasons Dems cannot trust Hillary:

HILLARY’S MOTHER-F’ING TOUR BUSINESS

Posted By Greg Palast On May 3, 2007

But Bill's cute remark raised a question in my mind:  How did Hillary get that big ol' salary?  And another question arises:  how has she stayed out of prison?
 
The story's a little complicated, involving a New Orleans power company, Indonesian billionaires, a New York nuclear plant and plain old influence peddling.  But if we follow the money, we'll get the picture.  And it ain't pretty.
 
But first, let's stop at Wal-Mart.  Read an official biography of the Senator and you'll find her six-month stint on a child-protection task force.  Yet you won't find her SIX YEARS on the board of directors of Wal-Mart Corporation.   She may have earned a Grammy for "It Takes a Village to Raise a Child."   But it takes a Governor's wife to provide cover for Wal-Mart's profiteering off systematic wage-enslavement of children in its factories in South America.
 
Sam Walton called Hillary, "My little lady."  Sam paid her an eyebrow raising sum for a director - equal to 60% of her entire not-insubstantial salary as a lawyer.  By contrast, Wendy Diaz (her real name), a 13-year-old in Honduras, was paid 25 cents an hour to make shirts for the "little lady's" label.
 

http://www.gregpalast.com/hillarys-mother-fing-tour-business/?print=1

An email sent over the weekend to Reid might also help influence about the timeline. The Senate and House are not in session until Monday.

harryreid@giveemhellharry.com

I think I found out why the "Mexican immigrants for labor" are no longer important.  And the devious George Bush's real reason to start a greatly expanded guest worker program as part of reforming the immigration system.  It's not for the Mexican people...

Global Horizons - is one of the country's largest labor contracting companies: "recruiting quality workers from diverse places like Thailand, India, Nepal, Israel,  Eastern and Western Europe," Mexico, Vietnam, Malaysia, Guatemala, South Africa, Australia, Nepal and China, to  work in skilled and unskilled jobs ranging from nursing to agriculture, forestry, etc. in the U.S. since 2000

Lawsuits everywhere for the horrible conditions their employees are made to work in, unfair pay, etc. etc.  Washington State has suspended their contracts.

There are currently about 50,000 H-2A workers in the country.  (that’s a guess) Visas are granted for the duration of the worker's seasonal employment, or periods up to one year, and employers can renew visas annually for up to three years.

It's all about money.   They can even pay  these poor less than our Mexican immigrants.  Problem -  must emove Mexican immigrants.  Solution:  Media blitz - Fox News, Lou Dobbs.  I will research Global Horizons and see just who they donate to -- and who's making the money.

I hate to say this but I really like this lady -- the DC Madam. At least in this story.
http://blogs.abcnews.com/theblotter/2007...
When you think about it the only power women have over men is in the bedroom. File under 'things I wish Mom had made clearer when I was 16.' Present company excepted of course - blog fellas are very cool people I think.

Jewish Group Behaving Like Nazis In Trying To Get Dobbs Fired

Prison Planet
Friday, May 4, 2007 

A Jewish group that are attempting to get Lou Dobbs fired for "hate speech" because he compared pro-illegal immigration propagandists to Herman Göring are themselves behaving like Nazis in attempting to crush free speech.

"They might as well work for Herman Göring," Dobbs said on a recent CNN piece about advocates of mass amnesty for illegal aliens. "I mean, they're running so much propaganda, trying to confuse the debate, the national dialogue, by talking about immigrants rather than illegal aliens and legal immigrants. It's mindless beyond belief."

"Comparisons to Nazis — especially in this day and age — are abhorrent," the president and CEO of the Hebrew Immigrant Aid Society, Gideon Aronoff, said in a statement Monday. "Mr. Dobbs has crossed the line between responsible television commentary and hate-speech propaganda of his own. Keeping him on the air is essentially sanctioning by CNN — which is why we're asking CNN to remove Dobbs from his very public platform."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/con...

I guess in my book it's OK for a woman to turn tricks but I laugh at a guy? That's sexist. Anyway, here's Dana Milbank on the National Day of Prayer Bible Reading Marathon and a quote about our old buddy Jeff Gannon/Guckert.
------
Organizers put out 600 folding chairs on the lawn -- the spot where presidents are inaugurated -- and set up a huge stage with powerful amplifiers. But at 9:30 a.m. yesterday, not one of the 600 seats was occupied. By 11 a.m., as a woman read a passage from Revelations, attendance had grown -- to four people. Finally, at 1 p.m., 37 of the 600 seats were occupied, though many of those people were tourists eating lunch.

Where was everybody?

"This isn't that kind of event," explained Jeff Gannon, spokesman for the host, the International Bible Reading Association. Gannon, actually a pseudonym for James Guckert, had earned fame in 2005 representing a conservative Web site at White House briefings until it was revealed that he posted nude pictures of himself on the Web to offer his services as a $200-an-hour gay escort.

Let us pray for the power to understand how Gannon made his way from HotMilitaryStud.com to the International Bible Reading Association.

8. Yep :-)

14. lol, gay escorts *can* be religious. 'course, it may just be a job.

Gotta go mail kid2's bday card - the big 21 on Monday!

bbl

I Heard the madam may be naming grover norquist as one of her "clients".

oh goody.

my rep bobby scott wants us out for sure. yeah bobby. I was at this birthday dinner last friday and he was fired up. impeachment he says is on the table.

a little levity on this quiet friday p.m.

WILLIAMSBURG -- Everywhere Queen Elizabeth II goes, the bear follows.

It's not a real bear. It's actually a protester from People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals (PETA) in a costume, trying to call attention to the fact that the Queen's Five Guards Regiments wear hats made from the fur of black bears.

"We're going to be everywhere the queen goes on her U.S. visit," said PETA's Matt Rice, who is accompanying the bear in Williamsburg today. "The guards would look just as regal wearing faux fur. They have really turned against fur in England -- they even banned fox hunting -- and it's time for the queen and the Ministry of Defense to go with the will of the people."

Thankful2Thankful4Dean
Fri, 05/04/07
1:13 pm


The thought occurs, what's to keep someone whose benefits have kicked in from feeling it's gross to not take advantage the system because now their covered?
------------

There are two things, I think, to be implemented in order for "someone...to not take advantage...":

A) Doctors should not profit out of number of patients served (as well as should not have any losses out of it), which basically means, yes, - health care NOT for profit;

B) There should be feedback on spent amount of money, not on a personal level but on a group level: (businesses/departments/etc.).
That level is the best controlling and verification mechanism, against wrong "motivation", imo.

Annilow ~~ I don't think I actually *want* to know how/why the rePublican brain functions (if that's what you wanna call it). . . .

Dobbs said on a recent CNN piece about advocates of mass amnesty for illegal aliens. "I mean, they're running so much propaganda, trying to confuse the debate, the national dialogue, by talking about immigrants rather than illegal aliens and legal immigrants. 

This comment gets a gut laugh and "hypocrite of the month" award from me. I mean, for the past year Dobbs has devoted 10-20 minutes of each program to his brand of propaganda on the subject. And to him, "trying to confuse the debate," means using talking points other than his.

I don't think I actually *want* to know how/why the rePublican brain functions

Same as toilets. 

I Heard the madam may be naming grover norquist as one of her "clients".

Howard Kurtz was on CNN this morning lamenting the exposure of politicians' sex lives. LOL.

I'm guessing he's on that list too. 

Slow day.....

Just a drive by to shout out a HOWDY to ALL!


Phil, I went to my first Agriculture Forum last night. It was the first held in Santa Fe. They discussed the Farm Bill and where the money goes, etc.

I came home, and I had mail from Senator Harkin. LOL Ofcourse, it was for another contribution, but it was still funny. Many are expressing hope, with the new Congress on this new Food (Farm Bill)

___________________________________


good news, Chris Dodd sent out an email asking which other candidates will join in the Feingold/ Reid, cut funding to end war, Bill.
Richardson, yes,
Biden, no
All others blank,
Well, Edwards has changed his mind and wants Congress to cut funding to end the war

Will Barack and Hill, change their minds, to end the war? Yo' supporters, ask them to support Feingold/Reid Bill to cut funding and stop the war. NOW!

_____________________________________

and a little comedy relief.

http://currenttv.com/network/pods/supern...



Be well.

Howard Dean Tid Bit from CBSNews.com

He's Still Plain Ol' Howard

22.

Sitka,

LOL

Just read the last couple of threads. Joan thanks for info on moving up FL primary and ramifications with DNC -- I did not know. Have no solution but nice to know the problem.

Healthcare -- I feel like most of the civilized world (remember, Howard told us) has been doing this for years and years -- giving everyone health insurance I mean. So why is it so hard for us. Someone mentioned just follow the Canadian plan -- sounds like a winner to me. I've heard Canadians say they wait a long time for elective surgery. I've heard Aussies say they must have supplemental insurance because their basic universal coverage is not so hot (but that may be perspective). I haven't heard any Brits complaining or other western Europeans, but then I don't really know any. I DO know I carefully planned an early retirement and when I 'retired' company provided bennies wer 50/mo. When I finally gave it up about 5 years later it was over 1000/mo. So I felt scr*wed. I LOVE working part time -- only reason to go full time is for the stupid bennies -- then we become slaves in a way, IMHO, chained to the soulless 9-5. One more note on Medicare - I'm not quite eligibile, but Medicare folks are not covered outside of the US of A - must get something for those foreign trips.

Here's a trivia for Phil and maybe Paine and any other interested:
Our friend Ry Cooder appeared #8 on Rolling Stone magazine's list of the top 100 guitarists of all time. Source WIKI.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ry_Cooder

18.

Queen's Five Guards Regiments wear hats made from the fur of black bears.

I did not know that.  It's awful and so 19th century.

It's good the fake bear is following the Queen, perhaps she hasn't a clue what the guards wear and she will ask why it is this "bear" is there. Maybe spare some bear.

28.

Medicare folks are not covered outside of the US of A - must get something for those foreign trips.

It's almost a joke but Medicare will pay for services in Canada "when you travel on the most direct route through Canada between Alaska and another state." Also there are a couple other unlike situations.

In other words, buy travel medical insurance when traveling:))

Annilow,

Are you getting this thick smoke up there from Flagler County fires??

It gets very heavy in the afternoon here, almost blocks out the sun. I hope we're not going to get another fire storm like 1998.

Send rain!

Dan Wood wrote "It's too bad [we] missed John Edwards on Sunday! He was head and shoulders above the other candidates, which surprised me a lot! But I and a lot of Deaniacs/DFA'ers have come on board to the Edwards bandwagon as a result of that speech."

I guess we can't all be so lucky.  The words "Edwards" and "bandwagon" certainly do ring true together.

Is the Queen here teaching our queen how to be a more kingly guy?

Tom Bearse
Fri, 05/04/07
4:03 pm

Congratulations for joining the cheap shot club. You're full of 'em these days.

Indy wrote "Congratulations for joining the cheap shot club. You're full of 'em these days."

Thank you.  I'm very honored.

Phil, will you please explain to me why Clinton is polling in the 30s?  Are Iowans warmonger, corporatists?  Do Iowans really like her?

This is so scary to me, since Kerry ran away with it after Iowa. 

I just don't understand why IA would even acknowledge her, she's such a horrible candidate.

*****************************

A scrawl during Keith last night said that the dems have shelved the timetable and will work with repugs for benchmarks.  I hope that scrawl line was wrong, but I don't think so.   Benchmarks...do they start before, during or after the Iraqis take their 2 month vacation? Travesty if true.

Scottish election feared stolen: Why?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Ed Felten and his team at Princeton have analyzed a Diebold machine:

This paper presents a fully independent security study of a Diebold AccuVote-TS voting machine, including its hardware and software. We obtained the machine from a private party. Analysis of the machine, in light of real election procedures, shows that it is vulnerable to extremely serious attacks. For example, an attacker who gets physical access to a machine or its removable memory card for as little as one minute could install malicious code; malicious code on a machine could steal votes undetectably, modifying all records, logs, and counters to be consistent with the fraudulent vote count it creates. An attacker could also create malicious code that spreads automatically and silently from machine to machine during normal election activities -- a voting-machine virus. We have constructed working demonstrations of these attacks in our lab. Mitigating these threats will require changes to the voting machine's hardware and software and the adoption of more rigorous election procedures.

(Executive summary. Full paper. FAQ. Video demonstration.)

Salon said:

Diebold has repeatedly disputed the findings then as speculation. But the Princeton study appears to demonstrate conclusively that a single malicious person could insert a virus into a machine and flip votes. The study also reveals a number of other vulnerabilities, including that voter access cards used on Diebold systems could be created inexpensively on a personal laptop computer, allowing people to vote as many times as they wish.

DANIEL ROONEY
Fri, 05/04/07
2:44 pm

 Dobbs said ... "I mean, they're running so much propaganda, trying to confuse the debate, the national dialogue, by talking about immigrants rather than illegal aliens and legal immigrants.

---------------

Would be a point if it were not for the fact the the two issues (legal and illegal) are inseparable.  Unfortunately, limiting work visas for Mexicans and others,  has been both a populists tool and a capitalist pleasure for businesses( that turn a blind eye to illegal workers) - if there were not a demand there would be no "supply"

"out of status visitors" is my take, "NAFTA refugees" another; or simply "guests"

I just called my Rep, as well as Pelosi and Reid, and asked why we aren't simply rescinding the AUMF-Iraq. Without specifically saying so, I believe this both tells them that I don't want them to "back down," but also suggests an alternative that is currently not being explored, and which I have found no-one who can tell me why it wouldn't be the most effective measure for getting us out of Iraq ASAP.

John Edwards on Sunday! He was head and shoulders above the other candidates

That was just his big hair. 

Phil, will you please explain to me why Clinton is polling in the 30s?  Are Iowans warmonger, corporatists?  Do Iowans really like her?

They chose Kerry in 04. Nuff said. 

It's become increasingly clear to me that the presidential sweepstakes is not profiting from having the candidates lurch out of the gates so early to announce their campaigns.  There was a lot of excitement at the time of the announcements, borne mainly from the long speculation of seeing who will be in the race, but now?  The idea of visiting a candidate's web site, just to listen to a bunch of people extol the merits of the candidate in repetitve fashion, strikes me as abhorrant.  I have not dragged myself yet to a TV to hear a candidates' debate for either party, because the prospect seems like a particularly powerful emetic.  It's more fun coming here for a politics fix, to be honest.

I just met with my Representative one on one to reinforce the message that he remain committed to timelines and consequences on any benchmarks. As you know, my Rep. is a Blue dog and has been indicating recently that he doesn't want the timelines.

Got to do what you can. Schedule a meeting with your Rep. this weekend or take advantage of any open forums he/she might have to make your case.

Sitka wrote "That was just [John Edwards'] big hair [that made him head and shoulders above the other candidates.]"

Ha, ha.  Maybe he was just standing on top of his 28,000 square foot house.

Tom and Sitka, the blog version of Abbott and Costello. Full of cheap shots at people who ARE ACTUALLY DOING SOMETHING worthwhile than sitting at their computer.

 How low will the blog sink?

Indy, you are too earnest.  It is really bringing me down.

Dow shareholders question Bhopal memo.

 Amnesty International has called for a Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) investigation of Dow Chemical Co. after the disclosure of an internal company memo exposing Dow's effort to absolve its liabilities from the deadly 1984 Union Carbide pesticide plant explosion in Bhopal, India that has killed more than 22,000 people to date.

http://www.panna.org/resources/panups/panup_20070503.dv.html

Tom Bearse
Fri, 05/04/07
5:21 pm

Awwww, gee, sorry to get you "down".

Maybe Iraq will cheer you up. BTW, what HAVE you done on anything. I don't seem to recall you actually doing anything except stirring up crap. You might want to let inquiring minds know. But, of course, don't let me get you down by asking. Too many sit-around and do nothing types on the blog.

Indy wrote "But, of course, don't let me get you down by asking. Too many sit-around and do nothing types on the blog."

That won't happen.  I guess we're on notice that we better be doing something worthy if we hope for the privilege of being on a blog with Indy Steve.

Tom Bearse
Fri, 05/04/07
5:28 pm

Not do something worthy. Just DO something. I'm off to DO MORE! Like writing Sen. Lugar a letter (like that'll change his mind!!)

When it comes to doing something, everyone makes their own decisions, Indy.  You, for example, called out Howard Dean on his former campaign website for going along with Democrats in the Congress on the troop funding bills.  You've also hacked away at him for his comments about Southerners.  You can fill us in on whatever other criticism I've accidently left out.  I'd be personally more grateful if you did a little less, and so might Dr. Dean, but of course it's everyone's prerogative to do what they think is right, according to their own conscience, or maybe that's not quite as obvious as I thought.

Dobbs is reporting that half of our troops are suffering from psychological problems.

This is insane.  Our poor troops are not getting R&R and now they're extended.  The army is broken, and Dobbs is really pi$$ed.  Sometimes, he gets things right and I think this program is one of those times. 

Five US Soldiers Killed in Iraq Friday
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/050407R.shtml
The US announced the deaths of five American soldiers and an Iraqi interpreter Friday. Roadside bombs were responsible for three of the American deaths announced today. Such weapons have long been the No. 1 killer of US and Iraqi forces in Iraq, but now use of the Iranian explosively formed penetrators, or EFPs, is rising.

Waxman Warns Rice About Interfering With Niger Probe
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/050407S.shtml
Henry Waxman, chairman of the House oversight committee, wrote to Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice today to complain that State Department officials had tried to block a nuclear weapons analyst at the department from speaking with Waxman's staff. This comes after Waxman's committee issued a subpoena last week for Rice's testimony on how she dealt with claims before the war that Iraq had sought uranium from Niger.

That was a quick drive by.

bbl 

Pornographic shot of the day--sleazy slimeball Darth Cheney "Entertaining" Queen Elizabeth. She certainly looks charmed , doesn't she?

Good caption would be "I need a barf bag"

When it comes to doing something, everyone makes their own decisions, Indy.

Tom Bearse
Fri, 05/04/07
5:43 pm

And some people decide to do nothing.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/gov-bill-richardson/deauthorize-the-war-now_b_47690.html

BILL RICHARDSON HAS THIS RIGHT!

Ah, yes, finally someone who agrees with me that these debates are all degrading to candidates hoping to become POTUS.

The strangest thing about the premature reappearance of the presidential debates is the palpable, seething contempt they inspired in commentators everywhere, liberal and conservative. One after another, columnists lined up to shit on the candidates, calling them names like phony and desperate and grasping and clown, and rightly so -- for there was something obviously perverse and obnoxious about these terminal ambition cases hogging the airwaves already, pushing us to get on board with their insane power-fantasies a full fifteen months before most of us should even start thinking about the next election.

An American Enterprise Institute analyst graded the candidates on their "creepiness" factor. The Houston Chronicle compared the debates to a stock car race, where everybody is really watching in hopes of seeing a crash. The Cleveland Plain Dealer said the debate was like a "political beauty pageant in which the mission of the contestants was to hop, skip and swerve without falling on their faces," the result "more dizzying than edifying." And so on and so on... more than one reporter cracked that it was a far cry from Lincoln-Douglas, etc.

much more at the link above

seashell - A few years ago I did some research on the fake Niger papers.  There's way more to this than meets the eye.  Letterhead and seal were stolen from the Niger Embassy in Italy....the same letterhead and seal were used to forge the "yellowcake - Saddam" tie.  At the same time, there were some 'very interesting Americans' visiting there.   I'll go back and research it.   I highly suspect that Rice doesn't want any further invetigation on this issue.

Romney won the debate clips that I saw paine, sorry.

Sam yes the whole thing was spun up to start the war and was a part planned before 9-11.

combine Phase Two and Libby and go to the impeachment of Cheney

hand first, then sock puppet

seashell 

Clinton represents a historic opportunity for women in some eyes, name recognition, a substantial but minority pro business part of the party gets representation, and she does share most Democratic Party values on healthcare, education, human rights, hence 30%. No one is talking electability, this is not the same base as Kerry had.

don't shoot the messenger seashell, just a report as I see it lol

bbl

Does anyone in the media take notice that ALL of the Repug prez candidates are white males?  How embarrassing for them!

At least blacks and women have a tiny bit of representation on the Democratic side of things, no matter your opinion of them.

Ok, boys quit fighting now or we will remove you from this bar. I personally thought the big hair comment was hilarious. Joan, we have had some smoke -- it was pretty bad 2 or 3 nights ago. I may be getting used to it. Although we've had a pretty good breeze tonight. The most amazing thing to me is that I still haven't turned on my A/C. I don't know if I've finally acclimated to FL or if we are having strange weather. The humidity is down around or below 50% which is highly unusual isn't it. Well, enough about the weather or you wil kick me out of the bar too.

bbl

PS on the debate huffpost last night had a headline '10 middle aged white males' -- I think she was being generous about the middle aged part.

I lied about the humidity it is 80% -- and 90 degrees. I must be acclimated. When I first came here from SF I hugged the A/C all summer. Now I hate it b/c you can't hear the night sounds - the birds, crickets, frogs, hootie owl. Looks like about a week I will have to break down -- summertime for real. We still haven't had any love bugs. That's usually when you have to turn it on. Do you get love bugs where you are?

hello, fine friends. just stopping by to say hi and to remind you that our dear Mr. Moyers is on at 9 pm edt. tonight's expose: yellowcake from Niger!

drip...drip...drip ;)

oh, and thank you, Senator Leahy. I adore you, man! and the drip became a splash...

Sheri..

Thank you **very** much for referring to this debacle as the
"occupation of Iraq". Far too many folks think its a 'war'.

Tanner's THIRD birthday today. Great recent (not birthday) pic at baby.

http://eatapyzch.blogspot.com/

Hey all!  Say, what do ya call the talking heads? 

...Yakwhacks

freakin'  yakwhacks 

Happy B-day Tanner.   Ya little dude, you;)

Mr. Moyers is on at 9 pm

Jo*in*Vermont
Fri, 05/04/07
8:32 pm

>

Thanks Jo

I'm watchin' now and he's leading off with a MAN who was wrongly accused, convicted, and then served 25 years.

Moyers in a blessing 

Phil Specht

>

Romney is a salesman, Phil.  He may have won the debate, but I caution EVERYONE to steer clear of him.  That's all.

Thanks for the Birthday wish, Paine. Whole different mood than last year, that's fur shur.

patti smith  gimme shelter   twelve  columbia      *   2:13:09 (Real | MP3)  

69. Hey puddle :-) I said happy bday on an earlier thread, but will say it again...

Happy Birthday, Tanner ♥

Adorable picture btw

Thankful, saw your wish on the earlier thread. Reminded me. I got my post up hours before his mother did, lol!

the last twenty minutes or so of Moyers Journal ...

Carlo Bonini, investigative reporter for the Rome newspaper LA REPUBBLICA, broke the story about an Italian intelligence agency's involvement in forging documents saying that Iraq had tried to secure yellowcake uranium from Niger. Those documents helped the White House make the case for invading Iraq — famously with the sixteen words: "The British government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa." — in President Bush's 2003 State of the Union Address. Bonini tells the convoluted tale in his book COLLUSION: INTERNATIONAL ESPIONAGE AND THE WAR ON TERROR. The forgeries have come back to haunt the administration in recent days. On April 25, 2007 the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform voted to authorize a subpoena of Secretary of State Condoleeza Rice as part of an inquiry into the discredited information. The White House is expected to fight the subpoena, which followed a series of letters sent from the Committee Chairman Henry Waxman to the Secretary of State — find out more below. The Secretary of State has also indicated that she will not testify on grounds of national security and her position in the Executive Branch.

Think this was the quote

"We must protect democracy from propaganda" 

Hey Thankful and Puddle

I gotta check out for a bit.  Hope to pop back in.

BBL 

k Paine, catcha later :-)

This sums up the repub debate quite well...apologies if posted earlier, haven't read past threads today.

Arianna Huffington
Fri May 4, 4:22 PM ET

Last night on Anderson Cooper 360°, Anderson Cooper asked David Gergen, the Weekly Standard's Stephen Hayes, and me to pick our headline for the GOP debate. A Competition to See Who Could Be the Biggest Neanderthal was mine. The Republican Ten seemed to be competing over: Who would stay in

Iraq the longest? Who would cut taxes the deepest? Who would be alright with firing gay Americans from their jobs? Who would jump the highest if

Roe v. Wade was reversed? Who would build the biggest fence around America? Who would put an end to stem cell research the fastest? Who would reject evolution most passionately? Stephen Hayes countered that it was a good night for Republicans if they were called Neanderthals by Arianna Huffington. But the problem for the Republican Party as it presented itself to the nation last night is not that it was at odds with my views, but that it is at odds with the views of the American people. By significant majorities, the American people believe in the science of evolution, don't want Roe overturned, don't want to turn back the clock on job discrimination laws, and do want to bring our troops home from Iraq.

Flashing back to the Reagan era is one thing; flashing back to the Dark Ages is quite another.
 

Hey Reed. Quite an oppressive group of over-authoritarians, eh?

I was quite shocked when the hands went up re: who didn't believe in evolution. Is this the year 2007 or what? Pinch me to see if I'm awake...this has to be a nightmare!

Any chance you recall which 5?

I was trying to find out by using google...the shot was of all of them and short so I wasn't sure who did. I thought at least 4, maybe 5 did but my google search showed only one listing from Paul Levinson...Sen. Sam Brownback, Gov. Mike Huckabee, and Rep. Tom Tancredo. I could have sworn that Romney did but need to check to be sure.

I thought that MSNBC was going to replay the debate...possibly tonight at 11:30, I may be wrong about the time...I'll check with me wife in a sec. to confirm (she pays better attention to detail during supper) and if it is on, I will watch and see now that I know it's coming.

thanks Reed :-)

http://www.blogforamerica.com/view/20719...

New thread.

Found the youtube clip of it...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSiDTfqSOV8