Deans are first--for telling the truth.

And Sheri has succeeded in transitiong from an old thread to a new one automatically.

At least, I think that's what happened.

Re: Mitt Romney

What I would want to know is what kind of person presents himself as a leader of his state by going 'round the country and making disparaging remarks about it. Surely that's not considered loyalty in his religion.

What is a good right winger to do? They have a Mormon who used to support gay unions and abortion rights - a war candidate who is also a former adulterer who now supports abstinence - another candidate who has been married three times (including to a cousin) who is also an former adulter who is for abortion rights and gay unions. tee hee. I am loving this!

Good morning.

New thread did not pop up.  I was posting away on the old.

In the midst of this obscenity in Iraq, we have Conyers, thank goodness - the good pit bull who will help bring this godawful neo-con cabal down.  They will have to flee to a country that doesn't extradite....what his rhetoric HAS to say is that bush will be impeached if either HE or OLMERT attack Iran....becuz IMO that's the plan.  And then watch the egg on the faces of Congress, dealing with the "special relationship" Obama talks about.  And the people here won't like that.  Congress better prepare to take AIPAC and the AIE on cuz the truth about our "special relationship" is gonna piss off the voters big time.  Next week I start calling critters about this very thing.  The way it is now, if putz attacks, his head is on a platter but if Israel attacks, we run to the rescue.  This is very dangerous and the critters need to be told that we won't stand for Israel attacking either.  

Congressman John Conyers, Chair of the House Judiciary Committee, has used the following rhetoric repeatedly in recent weeks:

"George Bush has the habit of firing military leaders who tells him the Iraq war is failing. But let me tell you something. He can't fire you. He can't fire us. But we can fire him! We can fire him!"

You can watch Conyers say those words to a crowd of 500,000 on January 27th in this video: http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/node/18494

He said the same thing at an event a few days later, and went further, suggesting that he will favor impeachment if Bush attacks Iran. Here's the audio: http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/node/18457

So Clinton and Obama want the unitary executive power.  They will continue the dictatorship re: foreign affairs and both are kissing up to AIPAC. 

I think I should go to bed now, as I'm feeling that we're royally screwed.

And our poor soldiers are being used as fodder the the rapacious neo-cons. Talk about eating your own.

Since there's no draft, how can these people be forced into 2nd, 3rd or 4th tours?  How can a stop-loss be legal?  Effing neo-cons!!!  Someone please tell the soldiers that Saddam and 9/11 are not connected.

GET THESE MONSTERS OUT OF OFFICE, NOW! 

*&^%$#@ 

Good grief, I have to go to bed.

Someone please impeach cheney while I'm sleeping, please!

Somebody who actually watches MTP might want to make the point that sending the President's Press Secretary along with a couple of Senators does not show proper respect. The Press Secretary is called that for a reason: he's a scribe, not an author or original thinker. Now, if his function at this event were to simply sit and take notes, that might be another matter.

Why is the White House providing secretarial assistance to the Senate? Is that a new function?

Well, that's not a bad analysis---

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=49DizrNTu...

paine

I too responded on the old thread.

Re: Mitt Romney

What I would want to know is what kind of person presents himself as a leader of his state by going 'round the country and making disparaging remarks about it. Surely that's not considered loyalty in his religion.

+++

Monica -

Agreed.

Mitt claims he was the one who saved the Olympics organization and managed it well in Salt Lake City, UT.

Then he donned liberal positions in order to become governor of Massachusetts in 2000, besting dem Shannon O'Brien.

Then he announced he's not running for reelection in MA and has donned conservative positions in oreder to become the next repub U.S. President.

Who is he ?

All I know, is the majority of MA residents, including me, were glad to see Mitt exit from the governor's seat here.

http://www.wdbj7.com/Global/story.asp?S=6104003&nav=menu368_2_9

February 18, 2007
 

Governor Tim Kaine endorses presidential candidate and Senator Barack Obama

Governor Tim Kaine endorsed Illinois Senator Barack Obama's 2008 presidential campaign today within sight of the former Confederate Capitol.

Obama, a Democrat, became the first declared presidential candidate to pocket the support of a sitting governor for the election

...

Newt could get into the adulterers race too.

Brownback will have more support than most think.

out west I would watch Richard Engel on MTP Hagel with George S., and Levin on Faux to get a good idea where things are headed in Iraq if they are still coming up imho

bbl

I don't care who endorses Obama. He's kissing up to AIPAC and in the pocket of corporate donors. He's also the protege of the senator from Israel!

I have posted Obama's speech from 2002 about Iraq, before he was in the senate, on Hannah. Very interesting--not in the same style as his announcement speech in Springfield.

http://hannah.smith-family.com

no one will get the nomination that is not a friend of Israel, it is the quality of the friendship that matters

true friends warn against bad decisions

if we knock down the Sadr faction the Hakim faction rises and Iran gains

so if the surge "works" we lose

and if it doesn't work we lose

who are these fools advising the President or does he come up with the duhcision on his own

his boss the Saudis don't like Sadr and might like us to bloody his nose on the way out and it might just be that simple

Bush duhcides whatever it is the Dick tells him their bosses want

Virginia's perception of itself as the "essence" of the South has long been a matter of wishful thinking, similar to the designation of Concord as the capitol of New Hampshire.

If Gore and Feingold are not running:

If not Obama, then who?

Unless someone who hasn't already "announced" gets in the mix and who isn't in the Senate but hasn't stirred any interest yet, then who of these candidates will DFA endorse?

14.

John,

Every candidate is in the pocket of the big corporations in some way. That doesn't mean it would influence the way they would govern. Corporations will always be at the table of the politicians in Washington which isn't always a bad thing.

Amazing Grace

Watch the trailer: http://www.amazinggracemovie.com/

no one will get the nomination that is not a friend of Israel, it is the quality of the friendship that matters

true friends warn against bad decisions

------------------

True - but being a friend of Israel doesn't make one an enemy of the Palestinians and Arab world.  No law that says you cannot love both, but not the way the Zionist right wing wants to be loved.  Americans Jewish voters are like Americans, and need to be educated as to what is going on over there.  If they really knew, there would be peace.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mark-kleiman/barack-obama-counterpun_b_41501.html

Mark Kleiman

First he turned John Howard's attack on him as al Qaeda's candidate to his advantage.

Now Obama does the same to the "We don't dare nominate a black man" pitch from a pair of Hillary Clinton's African-American surrogates.

That sort of talent for making lemonade of lemons may take him far.

http://www.amconmag.com/2007/2007_01_15/...

An interesting perspective.

Hey, what can I say, I like lemonade.

Facebook:

http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/news/politics/16724449.htm?source=rss&channel=kansascity_politics

WASHINGTON | Late on the day that Sen. Barack Obama, an Illinois Democrat, announced that he was forming a presidential exploratory committee, Farouk Olu Aregbe logged on to Facebook.com.

Facebook is the popular online community where college students post profiles, share photos and blog.

On a whim, Farouk created a group called “One Million Strong for Barack.”

“I remember thinking: There’s got to be more supporters out there,” said Farouk, 26, who advises student government at the University of Missouri-Columbia.

Farouk’s group had 100 members in the first hour. In less than five days, 10,000. By the third week, nearly 200,000. Last week, a month after he created the group, it had 278,100 members.

There are more than 500 Obama groups on Facebook. One of the first, “Students for Barack Obama,” was created on July 7 by Meredith Segal, a junior at Bowdoin College who first heard of Obama when he gave the keynote speech at the Democratic National Convention in 2004.

Instead of starting “a petition or something” to encourage the freshman senator to run for president, she turned to her Facebook page, created a group and invited people (first her friends, later strangers) to join.

Now it’s a political action committee with nearly 62,000 members and chapters at 80 colleges, the most structured grass-roots student movement in the presidential campaign so far. There is a director of field operations, an Internet director, a finance director and a blog team director.

“Young people are on the Web,” said Segal, 21. “That’s how we’re organizing.”

...

no one will get the nomination that is not a friend of Israel,

----------------------

This is almost a joke.  Who could not be a "friend of Israel?"   Objective-speaking that would only a professed anti-semite (which is what the right wing labels most critics.)  But is that really what we are talking about?  Is "friend of Israel" code for giving your approval to every fascist act of aggression the Israeli right wing commits in the name of "defending itself?"

Does being a "friend of Israel" mean systematically denying human rights to Palestinians and approving of the collective punishment policies?  Does it mean both the denial of citizenship to the indigenous people and refugees of 1947-48 and/or  perrenially delaying the two-state solution while they slowly ethnically cleanse the West Bank, by making life unbearable for them?

We really need to define what "friend of Israel"  means.  That is the key.

"True - but being a friend of Israel doesn't make one an enemy of the Palestinians and Arab world.  No law that says you cannot love both, but not the way the Zionist right wing wants to be loved.  Americans Jewish voters are like Americans, and need to be educated as to what is going on over there.  If they really knew, there would be peace."

28.

Well-"said" Donna.

donna in evanston
Sun, 02/18/07
11:46 am

-----------------

Don't know what your consciousness is, but don't mean to be condescending.  Jewish American people are like American people, and in spite of their intelligence, are just as vulnerable to right wing brain wash and filtered media.  I've been torn between what I want to believe and what I find when investigating.

Try the book I am reading now by Avi Shlaim, The Iron Wall .  Shlaim is a Jew, a professor in England, whose family was a very wealthy Iraqi secular Jewish family in Iraq for generations.   After 1948 they were forced to flee for fear of anti-semitism. They lost everything.  He served two years in the IDF. 

The book is a history of modern Zionism and the  Israeli military and governments strategy and relationships in the Middle East.  For a while the book was banned in Israel, because it spiked a lot of myths children are raised to believe in Israel.  It is very interesting and extremely well referenced.  There is little opinion.

28.

donna in evanston
Sun, 02/18/07
11:46 am

------------------

From what I read, Norman Finkelstein is an interesting, provocative contrarian.  You might check his work out too.

Talking about opinion and being sceptical.I'm of the opinion that the US military is not what it is all made out be.And yes, to be politically correct, I support the men and women who make up the troops.It's the military organization and it's leadership I'm talking about.We spend half a trillion dollars a year on this organization. And what are we getting for that?Sorry, all this talk about the surge is like band aid talk.A half a trillion dollar a year machine isn't able to pacify Iraq?So, I'm not impressed with the US military.  

+++

sunlight -

In all due respect, statements like "I'm not impressed with the US military" is the generalizations, wide-sweeping opinions that leave a sour taste in the mouths of those of us here in America and on this blog who have served in the U.S. military.

I proudly served in the U.S. Air Force from 1986 to 1990 and before that 1983 to 1986 in the Massachusetts Army National Guard.

The issue for me is that the neo-con Dr. Stranglove-like Bush the junior President we have now has attacked in a unilateral fashion a sovereign nation like Iraq with cooked -up rationale of the threat of WMDs that never existed.  Enter the picture Iran, a strong possibility of another redux, as Huron John has dutifully mentioned many times, and kudos for him for reminding us of such.

All I know is the American men and women who have entered the U.S. military volunteerily have done so with the highest intentions, as I had done in 1983, to serve and protect our nation.

The key, IMO is not to repeat the mistake of having get elected in 2000 a Commander-In-Chief who was more interested in getting his teeth attended to, than with fighting to protect the nation during the Vietnam War.

Even Prince Henry of the royal English monarchy has put his life on the line by joining the British military and this month will join those forces in Basra, Iraq.

Of the Bush family ?

14.

A black man that supports a Jewish state could become president?

The racist base of the south must be disgusted. And apparently we have some people here that feel the same way.

The racist base of the south must be disgusted. And apparently we have some people here that feel the same way.

--------------------

With all due respects, Joe, you should be open as to whom you refer and debate honorably and open instead of making indirect snide references like "some people here" - I am sure you are not talking about me.

"Some people here"  were cheering the aerial kinetic butchery in  Lebanon the way some African-Americans were cheering OJ Simpson's acquittal.

These days I'm really liking Obama

...

+++ 

Thomas -

I haven't seen you post before on this blog.

Welcome, you're in good company here.

33.
Well, Joe, apparently you are just not keeping up.
The 'base' of racists in the South are in the Republican Party - none of whom blog here.
No, 'here' the lying senator from IL is not reviled for his race, or compassion for those previously persecuted.
The Senator now has a record nationally, as well as nationally broadcast statments, to deal with. His voting record in the Senate signifies that DFA made an error in supporting him, given that WE are not corporate lackies or submitters. His lies about serving out his six years in the Senate as a senator for the people of Illinois are inexcusable.

WE do not need a liar as a nominee, or as pResident.

Bu thanks for playing...

19.

Good points, Joan.

Hi all. There is a good story on DFA links about Dennis Kucinich's visit to Connecticut yesterday.

 I want to reiterate a very important point for those who remember how Kucinich allowed / instructed his delegates in Iowa in 2004 to move to John Edwards - if they did not have enough delegates to meet the 15% threshold :

Dennis and Howard speak regularly.

 Howard Dean has forgiven Dennis for Iowa 2004.

If Howard has forgiven Dennis, we should too. Time to move on.

Additionally, Dennis has been mentoring my new and exceptional representative Chris Murphy. This confirmation came from Chris Murphy's Chief of Staff - unsolicited.

And Dennis IS the only candidate who has always voted against the war and further appropriations for it.

Y'know, if I were Al Gore (and in case you're wondering, I'm not,) I wouldn't run for Pres either.  Why should he?  He keeps coming up with innovative ideas to save the planet, like his new concert series.  He is recognized all over the world with respect for his environmental expertise.  He may win an Oscar and even the Nobel Prize.

Having said that, he will be a tremendous asset to whomever he supports for President.  I could be wrong, but I doubt that he would strongly endorse Hillary.  But Obama, Edwards, Clark(?) or anybody else would be blessed to have him in their corner.

A black man that supports a Jewish state could become president?

------------------

Does being critical of fascist, apartheid policy constitute being "opposed to a Jewish State?"

I guess that's like anyone being against the Iraq invasion is a "traitor"

34.

No I was referring to people that equate pro-Israel=bad.  And it is hard to have a guiene debate with those people because there is no logic to it. Its a knee jerk reaction.

Every time they get attacked and act to defend themselves they get blamed. In the Lebennon situation they where attacked. They had soldiers that where killed and kidnapped. They did what anyone would do in that situation. They defended themselves. The fact that they showed as much restraint as they did was impressive.

Its really no wonder that the right wing has started using anti-semetic charges against the left when that used to be an issue that worked the other way around.

Hey David!!

Kucinich/Edwards '08 ??

Edwards/Kucinich '08 ??

... or is a Hillary/Obama '08 ticket of wrong-hardheaded/opportunistic liar the most electable?

Myself i see more character in Brownback and Hagel than in Hilarck Clinbama.

And while I'm at it - and perhaps "David in the DFA Lions Den" - this will be the year-of-all-years where candidates' spouses matter.

 Elizabeth Kucinich has taken Al Gore's environmental training. She is brilliant - quite possibly the most brilliant spouse among some very well qualified spouses ( I guess I should even include Bill Clinton ). If Al Gore decides to eventually NOT be a candidate, he will at some point endorse someone else.

 Why not Dennis Kucinich and Elizabeth Kucinich ?

40.

Israel is a democracy. Infact a better one then we have. They have more parties and more choices.  You need a coalition of at least three or four parties to govern. Some that would advocate the same policies you would for them, others with very different policies. But they have a choice, thats democracy.

In the real "apartheid" government of South Africa blacks where not part of the government or had any kind of power.

In Israel Arabs are not only part of the government, one is even a cabinet minister.

By the way I call opponents of the Iraq war "which includes Obama" only thing. I call them right.

Deaniac in GA -

Just a suggestion, since you're from Georgia.

Instead of  attacking U.S. Senator Barack Obama from the state of Illinois who voted yesterday to open debate on the President's plan to have a surge of U.S. forces enter the Iraq civil war, you might spend more time locally going after your two U.S. senators representing Georgia who voted NO:

http://www.tfponline.com/QuickHeadlines.asp?sec=l&URL=http%3A%2F%2Fepaper%2Etfponline%2Ecom%2FWebChannel%2FShowStory%2Easp%3FPath%3DChatTFPress%2F2007%2F02%2F18%26ID%3DAr00102

WASHINGTON — The U.S. Senate voted against moving forward on an Iraq resolution debate Saturday afternoon, a day after the House passed a measure rebuking President Bush’s troop surge in Iraq.

...

both Georgia GOP Sens. Saxby Chambliss and Johnny Isakson voted against proceeding with debate on the House-passed version of an Iraq resolution.

...

And interestingly, the religious right wing in this country, no less the bible belt of the south, is probably the most right-wing supporters of Israel as well.   Whether they like Jews or not, on a personal level, right wing Southerners are ardent supporters of the far right in Zionist Israel. 

Politics makes strange bedfellows.

33.
Joe Davidson
Sun, 02/18/07
12:58 pm
14.

A black man that supports a Jewish state could become president?

------------------

Does being critical of fascist, apartheid policy constitute being "opposed to a Jewish State?"

I guess that's like anyone being against the Iraq invasion is a "traitor"

39.

rdorgan

I wonder if Gore will endorse anybody since it seemed to have such dire consequences for Dean. Once Gore endorsed Howard, some of the other candidates came after him like vipers.

44. ... or will Obama, due to 'supporters' call for his 'change', come out in support of more 'policing' of the 'region' once elected?

That is his record now.

Nor do I support Israel's right to nuke Iran in just another proxy war - or dirty little war - for American corporatist interests.

Joan* In*Florida -

You might be right.

All I know is that I'm so proud of what Al Gore is doing now and ditto Howard Dean.

Sometimes the top prize is not the position for the real shakers and movers of a society (ie. Martin Luther King, Ganhdi, etc.)

51.

I agree with you on that.

Maybe it was meant to be (whatever that means) that Gore not get selected in 2000 and Dean not win in 2004. They are at the top of their games, both of them, Gore doing more for the world now than anyone else can and Dean pulling the Democrats from the abyss to rise to the majority.

42.

I see more character in someone that had to overcome more barriers to get to where he is.

I see more character in someone that is the product of an interracial relationship with the middle name Hussien with a foreign father that sent him to an Islamic school as a child and despite the stereotypes against those things as gotton to a point where he has a real shot to be President.

Someone that opposed the Iraq war from the beginning. And went from being an unknown to a rising star in the party that is chaired by Howard Dean. Someone originally endorsed by DFA.  Someone that earned everything he got.

But purhaps you see more Character in two Republicans that both orginally supported the war, one that still does. Born into rich Christian families who've won easy to win senate seats in the reddest of states. In that case you might consider being a Republican.

Personally I see more character in the first guy.

Joe Davidson
Sun, 02/18/07
1:25 pm

------------------

 I might envy your knowledge of how the Israeli government is structured.  And it may be better than ours in some ways, as are, no doubt many others.  Whether it is a better democracy de facto is debatable, maybe for Israelis, and more so for ethnic Jewish Israelis - because de jure with regard to human rights, it is run like a banana, or the Apartheid South Africa.

That fact has nothing to do with the beauty of its system.  The former USSR had a Constitution that hailed the same human rights that ours did.  It is how it is interpreted that defines the government.  And it is the degree of participation in the Israeli system that makes it a true democracy, not the structure and procedure of how the government functions.

The human rights abuses - done a routine daily basis - in the West Bank done in the name of "security" to ordinary innocent civilianswould not exist for one day in this country.  If you deny this, you just don't know what is happening there.  I don' tcare if you got the guided tour. You need to read the facts to face this reality.  That is what Jimmy Carter is getting hell for.

45.

Funny, i didn't have to look up that vote to know how they voted.
Reality is that NO SUPPORT was given to the '04 U.S. Senate democratic candidate OR to the local '06 U.S. House democratic candidate by national groups

... this despite their brave stands for peace, fiscal sanity, and constitutional rights.
The 'left' here does not have access to the pulpits that the demon-infested wingnuts do, nor do they have the funds to go on the air to reach the non-zombies.

What do i do to fight these guys?? Well, i support those who in the end hold the life-preserver - then throw it to well-funded campaigns elswhere.

... sadly.

39.

rdorgan

I wonder if Gore will endorse anybody since it seemed to have such dire consequences for Dean. Once Gore endorsed Howard, some of the other candidates came after him like vipers.

***************************************************

I think more than Al Gore's endorsement - Howard's interview in December '03 about halting media consolidation was the reason for the media barrage and the whiting out of the crowd in Howard's post-Iowa-primary speech. We respect Al Gore - and want to know who he endorses - and why.

Thats true. Although the right wing of the country supports Israel for very different reasons. Reasons that are bibical and are supposed to eventually lead to Israel's distruction.

53.

Noone earns the ability to lie.

David A. Stevenson
Sun, 02/18/07
1:27 pm

-------------

I appreciate  your clearing that up, but all too often there is the "either for us or against us" attitude in politics towards Israel.   Except for  Moshe Sharett and Iztak Rabin, the country has been very fascist and right wing, like the last 6 years here, since the 1930s.   You can call me an anti-semite for believing that but that would be another right-wing mistake.  Blame it on the Nazis, or blame it on centuries of persecution.  It is a tragic situation that can only be remedied by the leaders becoming conducting the  "ethnically blind" to human rights of those within its territories and bringing the refugees back into citizenship.  The country will flourish and prosper and everybody will love the Jews.  

Georgia's repub U.S. Senator Saxby Chambliss (who defeated dem Max Cleland) is up for reelection in 2008:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/cq/20070126/pl_cq_politics/republicansanticipatestrongrunattheir21senateseatsupin2008_1

Republicans Anticipate Strong Run at Their 21 Senate Seats Up in 2008

By CQ Staff Fri Jan 26, 5:07 PM ET

Republican officials developing the party’s strategy to take back a Senate majority in the 2008 elections face a prospect that is both promising and daunting.

...

Georgia

Incumbent: Saxby Chambliss (news, bio, voting record) (first elected in 2002)

CQPolitics Rating: Republican Favored

There probably isn’t a 2008 Senate race that excites Democrats’ revenge fantasies as much as Chambliss’ expected bid for a second term in Georgia.

It would have been enough that Chambliss’ 2002 win over Democratic incumbent Max Cleland helped the Republicans to a two-seat net gain and boosted the party into a Senate majority.

But it was the tenor of Chambliss’ campaign that still has some Democrats venting rage. Running in the first election year after the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks, Chambliss portrayed Cleland — physically disabled by grave wounds suffered during combat service in the Vietnam War — as weak on homeland security, with one attack ad implying that Cleland was soft on al Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden.

While Cleland is not seeking a rematch, there are several possible Democratic contenders with political experience, including former Georgia Secretary of State Cathy Cox (who ran unsuccessfully in the 2006 Democratic primary for governor), Reps. Jim Marshall (news, bio, voting record) and John Barrow (news, bio, voting record), and DeKalb County Chief Executive Officer Vernon Jones.

Yet there are reasons to doubt that Chambliss provides Democrats with a ripe target. His strongly conservative views appear to fit the right-leaning Southern state, and his position as ranking Republican on the Senate Agriculture Committee is helpful in a state that still has substantial rural territory.

Moreover, there are no signs that a long-running Republican trend has abated in a state that gave President Bush 58 percent in 2004 and has a Republican governor, two Republican senators, a 7-6 GOP lead in U.S. House seats and control of both chambers of the state legislature. — Rachel Kapochunas

...

54.

I don't agree with everything their government does. But then again  I don't come close to supporting everything my own government does.

But I don't judge them. They are human beings. When you put people in a position where they are under constant threat and constant terrorist attacks they are going to get to the point where they will be willing to do anything to defend themselves in their families. Anything.

Here we are relatively safe in comparrison. But look what a majority of Americans where willing to support in the name of one terrorist attack. Granted a big one, but one attack.  I don't think in their position we would be any better.

Ah, Georgia.

56.

I  think more than Al Gore's endorsement - Howard's interview in December '03 about halting media consolidation was the reason for the media barrage and the whiting out of the crowd in Howard's post-Iowa-primary speech. We respect Al Gore - and want to know who he endorses - and why. 

~~~~~~~~~~~~

Of course we all respect Al Gore, no one more than I. Perhaps things are a little different now than in 2003/2004 and Gore's endorsement of the best of the candidates will help and not hinder.

Howard's statement about Taking Back Our Party also took its toll against his campaign from the DLC.

53.

"Noone earns the ability to lie"

Everybody is given the ability to lie. And just about everybody does at some point in their lives. Thats just one of things that makes them human.

But when you compare people some are going to come out ahead of others.  Alot of it has to do with their backgrounds. When looking at that Obama he comes out ahead of most. And I think ahead of all the real contenders so far for the highest office.

Not to say he is the only good candidate. I would have no problem with Edwards or Kucinich for that matter being President.  Either would be an improvement. I just don't think they will win.

64.

o.k. we've established Obama is a human, and chose to lie on nationally televised programs.

Not a bad mornings work! I do not get a check, nor a position for my support or lack thereof, so off to see my handywork go varooom. Later...

Love ya'll, mean it!!

64.

I think the ability to lie well is also a matter of survival in tight situations. There are no better liars than Rice, she's a master at it, probably did it all her young life.

Edwards, IMHO, is an empty shirt! Very shallow once you get through all those niceties. He also talks down to his audience; I suppose this is from his having been a litigation attorney with twelve jurors to convince and all of unequal intelligence. Nevertheless . . .

I don't agree with everything their government does. But then again  I don't come close to supporting everything my own government does.

But I don't judge them. They are human beings. When you put people in a position where they are under constant threat and constant terrorist attacks they are going to get to the point where they will be willing to do anything to defend themselves in their families.

-----------------

This is what we've all been brainwashed to believe.  That Israeli atrocities are necessary evils to defend against the savage aggressive enemy. 

The true facts speak differently, but one must take the time to investigate and read.   The State of Israel was built on aggression and the strategy has been to court the powers while building an "Iron Wall" to seize the land from those who lived in for generations.  

The modus operanding was/is to provoke the enemy to get them to respond violently and then take that opportunity to wipe them out in the name of "defense." so as to stay on the good side of the great powers who support them.  The right wing Zionist Israelis owe their historical success to impeccable PR work.

When the young ambitious major Ariel Sharon massacred 69 innocent civilians 2/3 of them women and children in a Jordan border town in 1955,

"Ben Gurion was against admitting that the IDF carried out the action and proposed issuing a statement to say that it was Israeli villagers whose patience had been exhausted by the endless murders and took the law into their own hands. The majority of ministers supported Ben Gurion..." (The Iron Wall  p 91.)

65.

No we didn't establish that. But whatever floats your boat. Have a good one.

Joe Davidson
Sun, 02/18/07
2:03 pm

----------------

Obama is a long shot, but so was Kennedy, a liberal Irish Catholic.  Pretty radical at a time when the KKK was driving my Italian relatives out of West Virginia.

Look how good JFK turned out to be.

Neither Hillary nor Obama will be running mates for each other.  Kennedy eeked by with a Southern Conservative (that was the perception anyway) running mate, Lyndon Johnson.

The smart money will be with a moderate running along side Hillary or Obama.  when you look at it that way, Obama looks better suited.

69.

Thats true. They also have that similar ability to inspire through their speeches. It would be a great sign of progressive if he could pull it off.

How and the heck can someone be comparing Kennedy to Senator Obama? sheesh.

Why don't we just start saying Hillary Clinton is like Joan Baez.

or John Edwards is like the new Kennedy.........oh wait, that was so 04.

I think the Israel/Obama talk started from seashells posts on last thread.

With his stand of pulling a "GW" that he will use our military to help "such a strong ally".

Sen. Obama: U.S. must support Israel's right to self defense

By Shmuel Rosner, Haaretz Correspondent


WASHINGTON - United States Senator Barack Obama, a Democrat from Illinois who is competing for his party's presidential nomination, told Haaretz on Thursday that the United States should help protect Israel from its "dangerous" enemies.

"My view is that the United States' special relationship with Israel obligates us to be helpful to them in the search for credible partners with whom they can make peace, while also supporting Israel in defending itself against enemies sworn to its destruction," he said.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/8266...

Joan in Florida

We have alot of time still for the Presidential Campaigning, don't worry about not having a choice right now. So much can happen.

Heck even Wesley Clark didn't jump in to the campaigning until September. But he was basicly an unknown. Not quite, but needed alot more time for non politicals to learn his background and name.

Billary didn't jump in until December.

It started so early for the folks to raise the money. They're competing to try to show the money backers that they can get the support for them to throw the money at them.

Some don't need to go that route.

OOooops....watch out...(for some)...I'm linking Counter punch :)

Congress Must Defund the War
By Sen. RUSSELL FEINGOLD

We are approaching the four-year anniversary of one of the greatest foreign policy mistakes in our country's history. In March 2003, with the prior authorization of Congress, the President took this country to war in Iraq. Almost four years later, virtually every objective observer--and, more importantly, the American people--agree that the President's policy has failed.

Even the President acknowledges his plan hasn't worked, though his solution is not a new plan but a troop escalation. Of course, sending more troops to implement what is essentially the same flawed strategy makes no sense. The American people agree that it makes no sense. And most of my colleagues agree that it makes no sense.

http://www.counterpunch.org/feingold0217...

Thats true. Although the right wing of the country supports Israel for very different reasons. Reasons that are bibical and are supposed to eventually lead to Israel's distruction

----------

That's true, but I don't think it tells the whole story.  There is also the comradieship of "fighting terrorism.  The motivation of Al Qaeda and Palestinian suicide bombers are worlds apart, but the right wing in both countries promote the "common enemy" perception and most people don't look farther than bumper stickers.  There are other factors as well. 

But like I say, liking Jews and supporting Israel are two separate things to many People.  IMO Sasha Cohen, "Borat" is a genius who figured out how to use guerrilla comedy to personally protest the right wing of Zionism, while bringing out the real anti-semite tendencies  in people that they  are reluctant to express in public.

How can any of these top tier candidates even be considered being anti war, when nothing they've done has been to end this war. Even so low as to campaign on have been opposed to it, but not support ending it?


AN INCONVENIENT RESPONSIBILITY: DOING ALL YOU CAN TO END THE WAR
Submitted by Linda Milazzo on Sat, 2007-02-17 18:32. Activism |
Nonviolent Resistance | Organizing Locally
Millions world-wide have seen Davis Guggenheim and Al Gore's Academy Award nominated documentary, "An Inconvenient Truth." A jarring portrayal of our planet in peril. The film is monumentally important. Yet as much as I've considered the content of the film, I've considered its title even more. "An Inconvenient Truth." No flowing alliteration. No catchy phrase. Just the fact. "An Inconvenient Truth." It's brilliant.

In this world, more specifically in this nation, where convenience is highly prized, inconvenience is the enemy. It's a sign of failure. The cornerstone of this capitalist society is the acquisition of enough wealth and power to hand all inconvenience over to someone else. The gardener. The housekeeper. The nanny. Perhaps the driver. Maybe the chef.

http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/node/1...

'allo, had a Union mtg this morning, and we were honored with some words from Representative Michael E Capuano of the historical 8th Congressional  district of Massachusetts

...I gather he is close to the Speaker of the House - Rep Nancy Pelosi!

Woot!

Santa Fe Veterans for Peace and the Eldorado Sun are co-sponsoring a free monthly documentary film series in the Eldorado Community Center living room. On Monday, February 19, "Agent Orange; a Personal Requiem " will be screened at 7 PM. This film, made by Masako Sakata, was produced to help her heal from the death of her veteran husband who died from causes related to Agent Orange exposure while serving in Viet Nam. It is both an indictment of U.S. foreign policy and a celebration of love's ability to face enormous adversity.For moreinformation,please call (505)466-7223 or (505) 986-1346.

78. 

Oh, that's hot, Linda*

Why supporting the troops means opposing the president
By Rep. Jerry McNerney

Last week, I joined with my colleagues, both Republicans and Democrats, in casting a vote against President Bush's proposal to escalate the war in Iraq. I did so because it is my duty to do everything I can to bring about a responsible end to the violence and make sure our troops have the support they need.

In considering my vote in favor of the resolution, my thoughts turned to the members of our armed forces -- especially those who joined the military after Sept. 11, 2001, out of a sense of duty and love for country, like my son Michael.

http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercuryne...

i don't like hillary, does that make me a phil or thomas?

some think this is a continuing power play by perata, my senator, to hang onto power. and, it doesn't solve the problems that term limits present in any real way.

--------------------------------
Initiative would change term limits
If approved, current Senate, Assembly leaders could serve another term in same house
By Steven Harmon,, MEDIANEWS SACRAMENTO BUREAU
Article Last Updated: 02/17/2007 02:41:55 AM PST

SACRAMENTO — In a move that would lock in the power of the state's two top legislators for up to six years longer, heavy-hitting political interest groups on Thursday filed a ballot initiative to expand term limits.

The measure, filed with the Attorney General's office, would reduce the overall number of years legislators could serve — from 14 to 12. But it would allow legislators to serve all 12 years in one house of the Legislature — rather than six years in the Assembly and eight in the Senate, as the current term limits allow.

"We need to reform the current system," said Allan Zaremberg, president of the California Chamber of Commerce, "so that California has a stable Legislature that is focused on solving the state's growing challenges rather than the next election."

There are 34 legislators facing term limits in 2008 who could have their terms extended under this initiative. The most prominent are Senate President Pro Tem Don Perata, D-Oakland, who could serve another four-year term, and Assembly Speaker Fabian Nunez, D-Los Angeles, who could get six more years in the Assembly.

http://www.insidebayarea.com/sanmateocou...

is this a stupid headline???
----------------------------
Pakistan catches suicide bombers
Bruce Loudon, South Asia correspondent
February 19, 2007

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/sto...

mprov
84

> hohoho, nah!  Afterall, what's in a name?

A clue to Washington's cluelessness
The 'null hypothesis' explains why Washington pundits are usually wrong.
By Michael May, MICHAEL MAY is professor emeritus of engineering at Stanford University and a senior fellow at Stanford's Institute for International Studies.
February 18, 2007

BOTH PROPONENTS and foes of the "surge" in Iraq made firm, confident predictions about what would certainly happen if their preferred course of action were not followed.

"If the U.S. walks away now, extremist elements will take over Iraq," said one group of government officials and pundits. "No, no — the proposed surge is too little, too late," said another. Some insisted that "the surge will only inflame anti-American sentiment."

But here's the only thing we know for sure: When the collection of politicians and pundits we call "Washington" makes predictions about countries in which the U.S. has "vital interests" (and especially about countries with which we have had bad relations), the predictions — even when they contradict one another! — are almost always wrong.

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/comm...

good to see you got the joke, paine.

 Congressman Capuano is very good  friend to Teamsters Local 25...

January 31, 2007

... House Speaker Nancy Pelosi appointed Congressman Mike Capuano (D-MA) Chairman of the Special Task Force on Ethics Enforcement. This bipartisan task force, which will report back to the House by May 1st, is charged with exploring the creation of an outside ethics enforcement entity. As part of this process, the task force will study ethics enforcement models found in state legislatures and in private entities.

http://www.house.gov/capuano/news/2007/pr013107.shtml

The gerrymandered districts in California also need reformed.

Obama Set For Big Jewish Push Major Mideast policy speech could come at JCPA plenum; ex-Clinton official on board as Jewish adviser. James D. Besser - Washington Correspondent

....The campaign has also signed on a leading Jewish Mideast expert, Dan Shapiro, a former National Security Council official in the Clinton administration. Shapiro is leaving his position as a top aide to Sen. Bill Nelson (D-Fla.) for a job with a Washington lobbying firm and a role doing Mideast policy and Jewish outreach for the Obama campaign.

At the same time, the freshman senator signaled over the weekend that he isn’t going to follow the well-established path.....

Obama did not mince words.

“Yes,” he said. “I think that the notion that this administration has — that not talking to our enemies is effective punishment — is wrong.”

The candidate’s words won praise from at least one leading Jewish pro-peace process advocate.

....“The possibility of Iran getting atomic weapons, or of a war to deter Iran from getting them, are the biggest threats to Israel right now,” said M.J. Rosenberg, Washington director for the Israel Policy Forum (IPF). “To have a candidate who flat-out says we should talk to the Syrians and the Iranians to avert these contingencies is not only in the best interests of America, it’s in the best interests of Israel.”

But major pro-Israel lobby groups have generally supported President George W. Bush’s attempts to isolate the regimes in Tehran and Damascus. And one Jewish activist sharply criticized his comments.

“You can’t give any legitimacy to terrorist regimes; you just have to work to destroy them,” said Morton Klein, president of the Zionist Organization of America (ZOA). ...

Analysts say Obama is trying to walk a difficult line, sympathizing with the situation of Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank but also stressing Israel’s security needs and criticizing Palestinian leaders.

In a Podcast during a trip to the region last summer, Obama said his visit to the West Bank offered a “sense of the differences between life for Palestinians and Israelis in this region. Palestinians have to suffer through the checkpoint system, the barriers, the fenced-in wall that exists just to get to their jobs, oftentimes to travel from north and south even within the West Bank. It’s created enormous hardship for them — there is high unemployment and the economy is not doing as well as it should.”...........

-----------------

lots more - big article

http://www.thejewishweek.com/news/newscontent.php3?artid=13676

After rereading mprov, I might have said neither.

And the noted headline in 86?  Well yeah, after all Pakistan is and area of land mass.  Dah!  Of is that it should insert potential?  Doh!

Ugh...Jewish Week.  I'm outa heeer!

Actually, I'm heading back out real soon like fer some vittles. 

Chow!  Err, I mean tchau.

73.

Nothing in that article is really signifigant.  We do have an obligation to help any ally that is under threat from any foreign source.  He also said we should help Israel find viable partners for peace. And again he is correct on that. We should.  It would be a huge step forward for peace if that could be achieved.

What would be signifgant would be to know what his actual plan is achieve those goals. Which he hasn't come out with yet.

Paine 79.     "The Fightin' 8th" is where I was born!  :-)

No s#it, Listener?  Then you must be hard core;)?  ha haha, city girl!

Loves y'all.  Mean it.

BBL tchau

Ugh...Jewish Week.  I'm outa heeer!

-----------------

The editorial staff sucks but they have some really good writers and reporters

You guys we need to distinguish between standing up to AIPAC and being anti-Semitic.

67.

If Israel's goal was the wipe out the Palestinans they aren't doing a good job of it since their population is growing faster then Israel's.

Personally I think their goal is to ultimately cut off the Jewish and Palestinian populations from each other as much as possible leaving one Jewish state and one Palestinian state. All they really need is an authority to hand over the lands to.

Now I'll admit its not an ideal situation for either side. Israel did take land above and beyond what they where given by the UN but they where attacked in three different wars in which the goal of the other side was to wipe them off the land completely. Israel happened to win those wars and took some land. Such is the price sometimes when you start a war you can't win.

But Israel too sacraficed when they took down Jewish settlements in a move where Sharon defied his very base in Israel and his right wing Christian supporters in the U.S.

The ideal solution would be if Jews and Arabs could live side by side in peace in one country that included Israel and all the Palestinian territories in which case it would be neither a Jewish or Arab state.

But unfortunately given the history there thats just not possible. So I think seperation is just the next best option.

Joe Davidson
Sun, 02/18/07
4:01 pm

---------------

Some interesting points there Joe.  I do question a lot of the commonly held assumptions as to who was the instigator in the wars and battles.  There is a built in bias in our sources of information and history to demonize the non-Jews and whitewash the Zionists.

Glad to hear what you think, but why do you think one State is impossible?  The right wing would not have it any other way than to believe it would be the end of the Jewish State.  Maybe "as we know it"  - Let us not forget ( or realize) That an Israel founded upon the principles of Judaism but functioning as a true multi-cultural society without ethnic bias, would be to say that the "Iron Wall"  militarism and expansionist tendencies of the last 60 years was a mistake.

It would be something on the magnitude of the principle for which we fought  our Civil War.

Under such a truly open Democratic Israel.  Expansion would not be perceived as conquest, but as proliferation of a better way of life.

91. ditto.

101.

Well since the first war occured on the same day that Israel came into exsistance its hard to see Israel being in a position to launch the first shot.

As for the one state I think there is just too much racial and religious hatred there for it to work. You see how bad it is between Sunnis and Shias in Iraq and they are of the same race and basically the same religion.

The ironic thing though is that  it is widely believed that the Palestinians are mainly the descendants of the lost tribes of Israel.  So the anestors of these two sides at one time where all Israelis until the destruction of Israel and its temple.

If they could ever live side by side then there would be no need for an exclusively Jewish state but instead would be a truly unique mult-cultural country.

82.

Let's try to distinguish between the person and the policy. It's not reasonable to dislike someone you don't even know.

Just back from the JJ dinner. A lot to support. After reading this thead, whoa, u all don' t trust Obama.

Heard him speak last nite, met him and his wife.

Report later.

Monica. I admire you but you know nothing about Virginia. We are a "diverse" state. In the fact that we should be divided up into mayb 3 states. Northern Va., progressive , educated.

Hampton Roads, many minorities, transient, military.

Southwest Va. is rural, more religious, many educated and pro bush cause they listen to nothing but Fox.

So your quote about Va being the "south" is not true. Mississippi is the south, the true south.

The rest are turning to the purple stage.

Keep them dumb and pregnant and uneducated and you got a lock for the right.

Report on JJ later, am tired.

Politicing is hard work

105.

My point was that the implication that Obama being supported by the Governor of Virginia was somehow evidence of his making inroads on the Confederacy is a superficial assessment, even as I recognize that some Virginians have tried to be a lot more southern than the true south is.

101.

Well since the first war occured on the same day that Israel came into exsistance its hard to see Israel being in a position to launch the first shot.

---------------

There was an unofficial war that started in 1947, the ethnic cleansing of Palestinian villages by maurading Zionist guerrilla groups.  I don't mean to suggest that the indigenous populations were angelic and did not wrong, they did lots, but the Arab armies that attacked the Zionist army in May 1948 were motivated by the death and destruction of these villages, and those who fled them for their lives, not unlike the way the Janjawee in Sudan are driving out the rebels in the Darfur.   This is the part Israeli school children dont here, like we didn't hear about the atrocities like the trail of tears or the Southern lynchings, when we were kids here in the States.

jc, when you come on, look at this, we have an adaptation being promorted. lol

February 18, 2007

The earth may be warming but Al Gore gets cooler by the day! Will he announce a presidential bid?



Al Gore's star just seems to keep rising. After the launch last May of his hugely successful film, An Inconvenient Truth, he is in demand all over the planet.



He made a surprise appearance at the Grammys last weekend to present the award for best Rock Album to the Red Hot Chilli Peppers. Next weekend he will be at the Oscars where his film has earned two nominations and is favored to win the award for Best Documentary.



Now, in an effort to deliver his message to an even wider audience Gore has announced a series of concerts "bigger than Live Aid" planned for July. The event is being dubbed 'Live Earth.'

 

http://blogs.tampabay.com/energy/2007/02/its_more_gore_e.html 

Not everyone is sold on Obama.

But thats partly what is going to make this primary season interesting around here.  No obvious choice with the absence of Dean and Gore.

I would say Obama is probably the most popular among the decideds. But a few do like Hillary, some like Edwards,  and Vilsack has some supporters here.  DFA had some positive articles on Richardson as well. And there are few hardcore Kucinich supporters.

Alot of people still are undecided though. I think alot of it depends who says what during the upcoming months.

Should be fun to watch. 

I agree with a lot of what Fred is saying. I'm not anti- Israel, but I don't think Israel should be given a pass to do whatever the hell it wants, and that's the position of AIPAC and a majority of politicians, both Democratic and Republic.

I'm particularly afraid that Israel will bomb Iran's nuke facilities under the guise of "defending itself". The instant doubling or tripling of oil prices will be the least of our worries if that happens.

As for the one state I think there is just too much racial and religious hatred there for it to work. You see how bad it is between Sunnis and Shias in Iraq and they are of the same race and basically the same religion

-----------------

Forgive me, but this analogy is shot full of holes.   The infrastructure in Iraq is gone and law and order is gone in Iraq.  There is at least as much hatred between whites and blacks in this country and in South Africa, and yet we've managed to  make a transition.

It is refreshing to hear you delight in the idea, anyway, even if you presently believe it is not possible.  I think if you seek you will find that it is indeed possible for this transition to occur. 

In "The Iron Wall" Avi Shlaim takes a paragraph to compare Ben-Gurion and Sharett, who represent the left and right.  Ben-Gurion was born and raised in War and had little contact with Arabs or Palestinians, did not know the language, and saw them as primitive savages that could not be trusted, whereas Sharett grew up in  Arab villages, knew the language and  knew them as peace-loving as any other people, once referred to them as a "proud and sensitive" people.

My point was that the implication that Obama being supported by the Governor of Virginia was somehow evidence of his making inroads on the Confederacy is a superficial assessment, even as I recognize that some Virginians have tried to be a lot more southern than the true south is.

Monica. I say this from all the most respect for you.

Tim Kaine is not from Va. He is Harvard educated and both Barack's mom and Tim's mom are from the same small town in Kansas.

Tim and Barack both went to Harvard along with Mark Warner. It was funny last nite to hear them tell of this.

Barack was the head of the Harvard review. They all played basketball together so this is not a fleeting moment thing. Not a confederacy thing.

Last nite to see some African American refuse to clap for him but afterwards seeing the young ones storm the stage ( I was there with them too shake his hand). It was a contrast of generations.

 But it was oh so interesting. So Tim Kaine who I think I know, is one who feels it in his gut (as stephen colbert would say) knows what he is doing.

Will Obama win? I don't know. But he is a smart, articulate, compelling and likable person

A Good post

A Question for Bill Richardson

I really wish New Mexico Governor Bill Richardson would remain the globe-spanning international problem fixer that he has been for many years. New Mexicans seem to like their Governor-Diplomat, and Richardson seems not to be in any trouble for expanding his job responsibilities to include many things beyond New Mexico's water wars with Texas and the issue that New Mexico ranks 47th in the nation in terms of per capita income.

But Bill Richardson has announced that he is in, too. And so we have yet another presidential candidate who probably has little chance of actually winning the nod of Democratic Party primary voters.

But his obsessive flirtation with the White House steals oxygen, in my view, from many other excellent Hispanic-Americans who might otherwise move forward if he were not always the front-runner Hispanic who could not go all of the way.

I could be wrong -- and I will correct course if that's appropriate down the road -- but as someone who worked with Bill Richardson's staff closely when he was in the House of Representatives as I worked in the Senate as a senior staff member to Senator Jeff Bingaman, I have seen Richardson and his team up close. I know many of those who worked for him then and who worked for him as Secretary of Energy and then at the United Nations -- and now lots of folks who work in his administration in Santa Fe.

The personal activities of candidates and the public ambitions ought not to collide as much as they do in our world -- but there are issues that Richardson needs to address that involve his own blurring of public responsibilities and 'what should be' private behavior.

I will frame this as a "question" for Bill Richardson.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/steve-clem...

Jockeying around the war


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By Salena Zito
TRIBUNE-REVIEW
Sunday, February 18, 2007

What goes 'round comes 'round.

Howard Dean is not one of the candidates doing aerobic positioning around the war so he can become the Democrats' presidential nominee. Yet he is the guy who created the space that everyone wants to fill: the anti-war candidate.

Dean staked out that role four years ago. And while the bulk of the electorate was not ready for his anti-war message then, it was even less ready for the way he delivered it.

Who could have predicted then that Dean was at the forefront of a movement that would become the litmus test for those who would seek to be the Democrats' nominee four years later?

snip

Four years ago, Howard Dean created the anti-war space everyone is now trying to occupy. Had he gone back to Vermont after the 2004 presidential election and done a few serious policy speeches, he would have re-emerged as the guy who was against the war at the beginning.
http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsbur...

:(

oops, I did it again. sorry

 middle name Hussien with a foreign father that sent him to an Islamic school as a child and despite the stereotypes against those things

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

that never happened, he went to public school

White House Watch: Cheney resignation rumors fly

By Paul Bedard

Posted 10/18/05

Sparked by today's Washington Post story that suggests Vice President Cheney's office is involved in the Plame-CIA spy link investigation, government officials and advisers passed around rumors that the vice president might step aside and that President Bush would elevate Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice.

"It's certainly an interesting but I still think highly doubtful scenario," said a Bush insider. "And if that should happen," added the official, "there will undoubtedly be those who believe the whole thing was orchestrated – another brilliant Machiavellian move by the VP."

Said another Bush associate of the rumor, "Yes. This is not good." The rumor spread so fast that some Republicans by late morning were already drawing up reasons why Rice couldn't get the job or run for president in 2008.

"Isn't she pro-choice?" asked a key Senate Republican aide. Many White House insiders, however, said the Post story and reports that the investigation was coming to a close had officials instead more focused on who would be dragged into the affair and if top aides would be indicted and forced to resign.

"Folks on the inside and near inside are holding their breath and wondering what's next," said a Bush adviser. But, he added, they aren't focused on the future of the vice president. "Not that, at least not seriously," he said.

http://www.usnews.com/usnews/news/articl...

they are booking in Daytona, how fast would they be going without restrictor plates?

I believe the Democratic Convention precedes the reThuglican one so they can taylor their ticket to counter the Democratic one as it relates to the Condi/Cheney story above by matching up by gender or race.

average Americans hate those kind of calculations 

The ironic thing though is that  it is widely believed that the Palestinians are mainly the descendants of the lost tribes of Israel. 

 ---------------

It is interesting to note that Jesus had a transition during  his three years of teaching before his death.  When he started out he would only preach to Jews, then a non-Jewish woman wanted to follow him and he said "I have come to gather the lost tribes of Israel." He and the woman had a short debate in metaphorical terms, and from that point on, he preached to everyone, not just Jews.

Our whole Congess needs to define two things.

What the hell is a "special relationship" with Israel? Both Obama and Clinton need to be drilled on this.  So do our congresscritters, which I intend to start doing manana.

What does "being a friend to Israel" really mean?  When and if your friend is drunk, you take away his car keys.  Israel seems drunk with fear and power (as our WH) and the keys to use military force should be removed NOW.  Striking Iran in fear preemptively will come back to devastate the whole state of Israel and will cause severe anti-Semitism world over. Both the US and Israel are acting against their best interests and seem blind to that.  Who is allowing this to happen?  IMO, mostly the rabid people like Feith who are in bed with AIPAC.

Why can't we have a "special relationship" also with Palestine and also be a friend to them?  It's the one-sided favoritism that is rubbing salt in the wounds.  And to attack people using tanks while they are throwing rocks is NOT endearing - it's bullying and terrorizing.

The first solution is to stop arms shipments to Israel and tell Olmert that he goes it alone if he attacks Iran.  The second thing is to break the AIPAC lobby and then see what newly freed critters will do when not worried about their political hides.  Level the playing field and watch things change for the better!

AIPAC is endangering both the US AND Israel but these nutjobs can't/dont see that or don't want to.   Being anti-AIPAC is actually quite pro-Israel.

******************************** 

"But major pro-Israel lobby groups have generally supported President George W. Bush’s attempts to isolate the regimes in Tehran and Damascus. And one Jewish activist sharply criticized his comments.

“You can’t give any legitimacy to terrorist regimes; you just have to work to destroy them,” said Morton Klein, president of the Zionist Organization of America (ZOA)." So I guess if your husband is beating and terrorizing you, you should what?  Kill him?  If your neighbor is lobbing firecrackers into your yard, scaring you shitless, you should what?  Kill him?   Frankly, this ZOA is scaring me.  I should do what?   

Our tax dollars are going to appease people like the above.

***********************************

The true solution has to be one of spiritual understanding on all sides IMO.  Attackers blame the victims, always. What you attack comes back 10 fold.   Their are no innocents in war except the civilians.  When people are hated, they have asked for it, on some level. Attacking out of fear of what may happen in the future is not only stupid, but that kind of action will act like a boomerang.

If the putz and olmertputz think that they can attack Iran, wiping out their nuke capabilities w/o severe repercussion, they are myopic.

Well, that's the best I can do right now since I just got up and I'm pretty much danced out.  :-) 

Israel is no more a democracy under Olmert than we are under prick and putz.   

Well said, Annilow,

"You guys we need to distinguish between standing up to AIPAC and being anti-Semitic."

Our whole Congess needs to define two things.

What the hell is a "special relationship" with Israel?

--------------

It is what  results from a special interest.  Sound familiar? It will take an exceptional leader, like Gorbechov,  in USA or Israel to break this cycle of violence and hegemony.

~~~~~~~~~~NEW THREAD - FINALLY!

So if president cheney resigns, doesn't rice-a-roni have to be OK'd by the Senate?

And then the fellow who's name I can't remember, Under sec of state and very pro-Israel become SofS, right?  Goodie, I can't wait.  Cheney would still remain, just like Rummy, all running the show and this is all show for the public to think things are really changing....

Months ago, I said that Condi is slated to run if Hillary gets the nod.  My tin foil hat is usually right on.  The repugs don't dare lose power, ever!!!

So maybe the fix is in for Hillary/Obama and ???/Condi.  No matter who wins there, the repugs remain in power since HC is a warmonger/corporatist.