Oh well...................men of peace are always first, as usual.  Wasnt Christ the prince of Peace?

Frankly I don't care if I'm virtually a lone wolf here -- go Barack !

In the words of Duran Duran's "Hungry Like a Wolf", I'm hungry to see the hoped for reality of getting elected a person into the highest office in the land who will represent ALL Americans. 

Saudis Will Fill Vacuum Left by US in Iraq and Challenge Iran's Pretensions

Read Nawaf Obaid today in the Washington Post. Read it carefully.

The preamble:

One hopes he won't make the same mistake again by ignoring the counsel of Saudi Arabia's ambassador to the United States, Prince Turki al-Faisal, who said in a speech last month that "since America came into Iraq uninvited, it should not leave Iraq uninvited." If it does, one of the first consequences will be massive Saudi intervention to stop Iranian-backed Shiite militias from butchering Iraqi Sunnis.

--Steve Clemons 

Obaid is a personal national security advisor to Saudi Ambassador to the US Prince Turki al-Faisal and what he is writing is no doubt the public version of what King Abdullah told Cheney when the VP was summoned to Riyadh.

What Obaid has articulated here is not offered as a threat if the US leaves Iraq, which the US must do in my view. This is the first robust declaration that the Saudis are willing to fill the vacuum left by the United State in the region and knock back some of the unchecked expansion of Iranian influence in the region.

It's not good to have rising powers with pretensions of future greatness clashing like this -- but there is NO CHOICE.

And frankly, it's much better to have the Saudis engaged that not engaged in Iraq. Iran must be balanced -- and while this may seem like an escalation, it actually is an important potential cap on a worsening of this increasingly ulcerous mess in Iraq.

But what the Saudis are doing and what they need to be do is not new -- it has been predicted for quite a while. And this is the consequence of the Bush administration's failure to think strategically. We have now drawn Saudi Arabia into a potential collision that could destabilize that nation and seriously harm our access to vital oil and natural gas supplies.

So don't blame the Saudis for seeing the world and their region as it is -- not as George W. Bush fantasizes.

--Steve Clemons

-- Steve Clemons

Howard Dean is first and young leaders like our thread feature that were inspired to run are the FUTURE!

YYYYYYYYYYYYEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

rdorgan

my wife likes Obama's book if that is a comfort for you

phil, you are right, we need young 'uns to join the democratic process. at my commission on youth meeting yesterday, I invited our chair to come to our city committee meetings.

he is a graduate of Spelman college and an engineer at notthrop grummnan.

and oh, he just happens to be a young man who used to be in our cub scout troop years ago. We used to call him c.j. , now he wants to be called cleon.

he is still c.j. to me. I am so proud of him.

the Suadi's have friends in Anbar Province, maybe why the Marines are being re-directed into Bagdad to switch sides in the civil war?

and elesha, thanks to howard dean, you are now one of my heros.

6. My wife is also a Obama fan. I'm still waiting for a surprise to show up but 'till then it's Gore.

Gee, I hope we don't get swelled heads!!

That's a great story from Iowa.

Curfews are undemocratic. You just know things are going from bad to worse whenever they resort to one in Iraq.

6.

Phil -

Thanks.

All I know is that Barack "clicks" for me.

What I mean is that first impressions count heavily with me and when the first time I heard and saw Deval Patrick, I said to myself "this guy has got together".  Deval, who never was elected to office before, is now governor-elect in MA.

I feel the same way about Barack Obama.

In fact, I liken it to hearing a song from an artist for the first time.

I saw Soundstage last night on PBS and the artist is Scottish singer/songwriter/guitarist/pianist/fluitist (occassional drummist) K T Tunstall. Part Chinese, being aadopted at birth, she is an infectious blend of cultures.

I was hooked when I heard that sound, just like I was hooked at the sound of Patrick and Obama.

Sometimes one likes things and individuals that can't entirely be explained -- it's like a visceral thing.

All I know is that I feel better when I hear those sounds.

typo - "this guy has got together".  s/b - "this guy has got it together".  

November 29, 2006
Senator in the Fog
Barack Obama and the Winds of War

By GLEN FORD

Barack Obama is a windblown politician. The junior Illinois senator avoids anchoring himself to any principle, lest his political sails fail to catch the slightest breeze blowing from the left or the right. His political direction is always tentative, although his ultimate destination is never in doubt: he will be a formidable national presence--maybe even president.

But Barack Obama--who has never claimed to be a Black leader--is in fact not a leader at all. Nowhere is this more evident than in the most critical issue facing Americans and the world at this dangerous juncture in history: the war in Iraq.

One year after his bland and idea-less speech on Iraq to the Chicago Council on Foreign Relations (see "Obama Mouths Mush on War," December 1, 2005), Obama returned to mush more of the same to the Chicago Council on Global Affairs. The U.S. should "begin to move towards a phased redeployment of American troops from Iraqi soil," he told the business-oriented crowd. Since the objective reality on the ground in Iraq and in U.S. public opinion had changed dramatically in the intervening year--resulting in Democratic capture of the House and Senate--Obama's failure to substantively revise his previous, timid prescriptions actually amounts to a turn to the right.

As the 2008 campaign begins, Obama instinctively positions himself even closer to the right wing of the party. His finger is in the wind, as always, but not the popular national or Democratic rank and file winds. Rather, Obama's game is to maneuver himself deep into the foggy Iraq policy realm inhabited by the gaggle of Democratic "front-runners"--a muck from which nothing ever emerges of any relevance to Iraqi or world realities. On that soggy playing field, the Senator is betting that his personal popularity and charisma will propel him towards his goal--whether that be the presidential or vice-presidential nomination, or simply to solidify his position as a major power broker.

Wisconsin Sen. Russ Feingold dropped out of the race this month, the only presidential hopeful to call for a firm timetable for the bulk of U.S. troops to actually leave Iraq by July, 2007, rather than a schedule to begin withdrawal at some point months in the future--Obama's position. With no one to Obama's left, he feels free to repeat the platitudes offered by the rest of the Democratic presidential field.

Obama's focus on gamesmanship rather than principled leadership, which became strikingly evident well before he won election to the U.S. Senate, in 2004, has rendered him virtually useless in the struggle to end the occupation and war in Iraq, or to prevent further U.S. aggressions in the future. Both his Chicago speeches testify to that sad fact.

Obama in Wonderland

In contrast to Sen. Feingold's proposal that U.S. troops "redeploy from Iraq" by mid-summer, and Congressman Jack Murtha's proposal that Washington "immediately redeploy U.S. troops consistent with the safety of U.S. forces," Sen. Obama calls for "a phased redeployment of U.S. troops from Iraq on a timetable that would begin in four to six months. Such a timetable may not need to begin in 2007, but begin it must."

That's essentially the same kind of mush Obama served the Chicago Council on Foreign relations in 2005, when he said: "The strategic goals should be to allow for a limited drawdown of U.S. troops, coupled with shift to a more effective counter-insurgency strategy that puts the Iraqi security forces in the lead and intensifies our efforts to train Iraqi forces."

This time around, Obama again puts forward a faux withdrawal plan full of holes big enough to drive a convoy of Bradley Fighting Vehicles through. "The President should announce to the Iraqi people that our policy will include a gradual and substantial reduction in U.S. forces," said the senator. "He should then work with our military commanders to map out the best plan for such a redeployment and determine precise levels and dates. I am not suggesting that this timetable be overly-rigid."

Oh, heavens no! Let's not be too "rigid" with a president who has vowed the U.S. will not leave Iraq while he remains in office.

Obama's so-called withdrawal strategy is full of gaping loopholes. "The redeployment could be temporarily suspended if the parties in Iraq reach an effective political arrangement that stabilizes the situation and they offer us a clear and compelling rationale for maintaining certain troop levels."

There is no When, How or How Many in Obama's amorphous vision--but he keeps on talking, anyway: "As a phased redeployment is executed, the majority of the U.S. troops remaining in Iraq should be dedicated to the critical, but less visible roles, of protecting logistics supply points, critical infrastructure, and American enclaves like the Green Zone."

Ah, that Green Zone, the vast fortress in the heart of Baghdad where the U.S. is building the largest embassy by far in the world. Leaving the Green Zone in U.S. military hands would be like a foreign occupier "withdrawing" from New York City while retaining fortifications stretching across all of mid-town Manhattan.

The fantasy continues: "Drawing down our troops in Iraq will allow us to redeploy additional troops to Northern Iraq and elsewhere in the region as an over-the-horizon force."

Yes, sort of like Dorothy in the Wizard of Oz, Obama wants some U.S. troops, but not all, to go somewhere over the horizon. But the horizon he's talking about is Kurdish turf, protected by 60,000 battle-hardened Pesh Merga fighters who have already secured the territory's virtual independence and, at last word, have not requested that their region be occupied. Given the habitual conduct of U.S. troops, a redeployment to Kurdish Iraq would likely alienate the only major Iraqi group that is not yet actively hostile to the Americans. The Kurds constantly threaten to seize for themselves the oil fields at Kirkuk--a move that would almost certainly provoke war with both Sunnis and Shia. If, as he claims, Obama doesn't want U.S. troops caught in a crossfire, he's got a strange way of avoiding it.

Contradictions abound in the ephemeral formula Obama shares with most of the Democratic presidential field. The senator donned his Uncle Sam top hat to scold the Iraqi parties/militias, demanding that they provide the U.S. with a "political solution" to the chaos ushered in by the invading Americans:

"To reach such a solution, we must communicate clearly and effectively to the factions in Iraq that the days of asking, urging, and waiting for them to take control of their own country are coming to an end. No more coddling, no more equivocation. Our best hope for success is to use the tools we have--military, financial, diplomatic--to pressure the Iraqi leadership to finally come to a political agreement between the warring factions that can create some sense of stability in the country and bring this conflict under control."

No more "coddling"? Here, Obama reveals himself as just another imperialist, oblivious to his own nation's crimes and incapable of internalizing the concept of self-determination and sovereignty of weaker nations. The U.S. has "coddled" 600,000 Iraqis to death--not counting those who previously perished during decade-long sanctions. The Americans methodically destroyed the Iraqi state, and now wonder why the militia/parties can't put it back together again. The Americans drove most Iraqis to hate them, yet remain persuaded that they retain the moral authority to scold one part of the nation, their "allies," while "extinguishing" (Obama's word) another part, the resistance.

The Roman, Tacitus wrote in his Annals: "[T]he legions create a wasteland and call it a peace."

A number of modern writers have quoted Tacitus, with the Americans standing in for the Roman legions: "They create a wasteland and call it Democracy."

Barack Obama, surveying the wasteland and finding no peace and no Democracy, refuses to blame the Americans, but instead claims the U.S. is "coddling" Iraqis. He admits "polls show that almost two-thirds of all Iraqis now sympathize with attacks on American soldiers"--an amazing figure, since the Kurdish region of Iraq is relatively untouched by the war and occupation, and Sunnis make up only about 20 percent of the population. Apparently, a huge chunk of the Shia majority, the group the Americans thought would be their natural allies, would just as soon see them dead.

In such a situation, the word "coddling" seems wildly out of place. But delusions run deep in the American political culture, undermining the faculties of even the most popular Black man in America.

Obama did succeed in putting distance between himself and presidential front-runner Hillary Clinton, in Chicago. "[W]hile some have proposed escalating this war by adding thousands of more troops, there is little reason to believe that this will achieve [U.S. objectives] either"--a clear reference to the New York senator.

The truth is, Obama's speech is relevant only to U.S. domestic politicking, and has no bearing on events as they unfold on the ground in Iraq. Sen. Clinton postures as a hawk to prove to war-lusting white men that she has balls. Sen. Obama continues on his lifelong quest to demonstrate that he is a reasonable, thoughtful Black man--unlike the others. This is theater for American audiences only, and has nothing to do with statesmanship, or the search for peace.

Just two weeks before Obama delivered his pablum-filled speech, his constituents across the Illinois voted overwhelmingly to stop the war and "immediately begin an orderly and rapid withdrawal." In Chicago, the ballot measure passed by a whopping 80-to-20 percent. Similar results were tallied in suburban Cook County, Evanston and Oak Park--wherever the measure was on the ballot.

The voters, from both political parties, are way ahead of Obama and his fellow senatorial shufflers. Nationwide, more than 70 percent of Democrats--the people who nominate the party's presidential candidates--favor an immediate withdrawal from Iraq. To lead, Obama would have to run to catch up.

There is a political solution to the American war in Iraq, although not the one Obama and his corporatist friends are willing to accept. Get out. Now.

Glen Ford is executive editor of the newly launched website The Black Agenda Reprt. He can be reached at Glen.Ford (at) BlackAgendaReport.com. Be sure to substitute @ for (at).

http://www.counterpunch.org/

She did it by earning a spot at the Democratic National Convention two years ago.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

that was the spot I gave up so another woman would represent Iowa, and I got it by getting some Edwards supporters to caucus with us so we would be viable at the District Convention as a Dean group (they had extra but not enough for another delegate and Edwards was closer to Dean at that point in still trying to get to a split convention and was an anti Kerry thing; of course Elesha voted with Kerry after Howard asked them to) 

I am very proud of Elesha and glad I had a small part in helping her out, she is a remarkable young woman.

She was helped by DFA but worked very hard herself.  Jamie Van Fossum, her opponent, made a carreer of cutting taxes for the powerful, this was a great grassroots victory.

To slide back to the past thread for a moment...

The ratio between CEO pay and average worker pay is obscene.  I don't know if it's still true, but when Ben and Jerry really owned Ben And Jerry's there was a corporate rule that their salary couldn't exceed some fixed multiple of the lowest paid person.

That doesn't mean CEOs don't earn their pay as a generalization. 

Uh...

Copyright.

Length.

 Links.

Just a suggestion. 

I've yet to see any there there with Obama.  He gives a good speech.  He has a good story.  What else does he have to offer?  ....

Hello Rich.

Obama has precisly that and almost nothing else at least so far.  Obama makes the perfect VP candidate for someone.  He is a very very very coherent Dan Quayle.  IE an almost blank sheet except that he is coherent and very very good on the stump.

If he wants to run for POTUS that is going to have to change, and it will change quickly.  If he wants to be VP, that is another story.

BTW remember that JAG episode where the Admiral and all the command staff go somewhere and HARM takes over the BIG OFFICE? 

It gets a replay....Next week!

Robert

Has another Russian been poisoned?

Robert

Curfews are undemocratic. You just know things are going from bad to worse whenever they resort to one in Iraq....

Everyone needed a few days off after the Atlas D's arrived.  We were all very emotional.

God Speed John Glenn!

Robert

"warm thoughts" is the equivalent of like, and that's what's on the minds of a lot of Americans who want to be positive, hopeful for the future and the top three are:

Rudy Guiliani

Barack Obama

John McCain

http://www.newsobserver.com/114/story/516024.html

Published: Nov 30, 2006 12:30 AM
Modified: Nov 30, 2006 03:12 AM

The quarterly "thermometer" poll by Connecticut's Quinnipiac University asks voters to rate their feelings toward individual politicians on a scale from 0 to 100.

Giuliani with a 64.2 rating and Obama with 58.8 lead a top-10 pack of prospective 2008 presidential candidates that includes:

* Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., at 57.7

...

.  Wasnt Christ the prince of Peace?  ...

Yes unfortunatly for you it is a "peace" that you dont understand!

Thanks for playing

Robert

Morning all :-)

Rich - really in sync with ya this morning... on Obama, salaries, and

copyright

length

links.

Obama, along with Hillary, Schumer, et.al., is one of the sponsors of the bill to renew, with significant cuts to funding, the Ryan White Act. They postponed voting on it til after the election even though it took it past the specified deadlines.

15. Nice summary of the facts, Rich.

Morning all

Robert,
Please explain:
"Yes unfortunatly for you it is a "peace" that you dont understand!"

thanks

Thankful, their purpose was not to cut off funding.  The disease spread, so to speak, has moved to rural areas currently, whereas HIV in major metro areas is stabilizing.  The challenge has been to move the $$$ to follow the disease. 

Hillary and Obama are trying to keep funding in place for their large metro areas.  They aren't the only ones....believe me, San Francisco is in this fight, as well. 

Funding the cost of the drugs is almost a separate issue:  Historically, the states have each had much say in how/what would be covered under Ryan Act.  I believe that standardization across the states would be an improvement.

Nice video:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=rDNY5sX9CL4

I saw Elesha Gayman at the Quad City training, she's a dynamo and has a bright future. Des Moines will be well served.

Phil,
Better watch those gassious pigs.

http://www.terradaily.com/reports/Farm_A...

[snip]
Livestock also accounts for 37 percent of all human-induced methane, which is 23 times as warming as CO2 and is largely produced by the digestive system of ruminants, and for 64 percent of ammonia, a big contributor to acid rain.

Hi Linda,

Pardon my lurking. He sounds great but he's not a graduate of Spelman College. Spelman is a predominantly black women's college in Atlanta.

I'm enjoying the great conversation!

-Sheri

Among AIDS activist organizations, Hillary has always been seen as a *go-to* person for HIV/AIDS legislation, funding, visibility, etc.

(Just trying t be fair and balanced. )

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bill-scher/iraq-study-group-worthl_b_35233.html

Iraq Study Group:

Zbigniew Brzezinski warned on Sunday:

The [Iraq Study Group] will probably come out with some sound advice on dealing with the neighborhood, with Iran, with the Israeli-Palestinian issues, which is relevant, but essentially will offer some procrastination ideas for dealing with the crisis.

What should be put to rest after this sorry spectacle is the notion that the only way to solve the Iraq crisis is through a glorious centrist bipartisan solution.

Here's your bipartisan solution: mush. Utterly worthless committee product mush.

The only way to solve the Iraq crisis is:

1) Have us Democrats, over the next two years, articulate our own distinct foreign policy strategy and objectives for the region.

2) Contrast it with the Republicans' failed strategy and reckless objectives.

3) Give the public a clear choice for the 2008 election.

4) Win the argument.

5) Implement our vision from the Oval Office.

Nothing positive is going to come out of this White House before then. Sad but true.

There is nothing noble about trying in vain to find nonexistent common ground with them. It will only make Dems complicit in the current debacle, and harder for us to offer the public a clear shift in strategy.

Glorifying bipartisanship isn't the serious way to get to good policy, especially when you don't have good-faith partners across the aisle.

The serious thing to do is put a serious vision before the public and build support for it.

Washington Dems, now that you're done punting to the Iraq Study Group, get going.

14.

AlGore4Me **
Thu, 11/30/06
10:59 am
-----
...nice analysys, Obama probably is a good Prof. Lakoff's student..., lol.

rich^kolker
Thu, 11/30/06
11:01 am

I agree with you about the ratio of CEO pay to "worker bee".  But I would add this perspective.

Many years ago when I was in Grad School(s) in a major Southern city I was doing some contract work with one of the TV stations (as well as a major cable news outlet) and became friends with one of the General Managers at the TV station ( he like to fly small airplanes) .  I think you know what city this is.

The engineering staff was unionized (a rarity) and they were considering walking out because of contract disputes.  One of the bones of contention was not CEO pay vrs worker bee but "talent" pay vrs "worker bee".

Harvey and I were having a discussion one day at the airport as we puttered around in our little airplanes.  He knew that I was friends with a lot of the engineers and he was kind of curious how they felt. 

I told him that what irked them was that the senior engineer peaked at 60K while a well known but certianly not their prime time anchor had just gotten a contract for 1.3 million dollars (it was well reported in the local paper).    The station apparantly didnt bat an eye over paying "Maria" 1.3 million but was balking at upping the engineer salaries to 75K.

I doubt the station manager made 1 million...A guess is that he was in the "comfortable range of 100-200K but certianly not the million salary (I guess that from one of the airplanes he was trying to feed).

His reply (It is a paraphrase but close) "If Maria isnt here, there is no station, it is hard to replace her.  I can find engineers very easily, heck they can replace me fairly easily".

The station was a major CBS affiliate and the talent later went on to be the First Lady of CA. 

Robert

morning cC - yes, I understand that it wasn't to cut off funding and that it moves money to rural areas. Point is, the total amount is cut, and while urban areas may be stabilized they but still have dire need. Urban/rural shouldn't be the issue, cutting funding for a growing problem is counter-intuitive. I agree coverage should be standardized rather than by state. $1,200 a month for meds when one can't get insurance and is unable to work full time could use some assistance in any location.

Don't know why but I truly love scrolling Troler's lengthy, pointless, drivelling missives:)

had to share. 

14.

Glen Ford is also the editor of Blackcommentator. If you feel that his copyrights have been abused, go to Hannah and click the link for the Blackcommentator and become a subscriber.

32. :-) Always good to be fair and balanced. A check mark in the good column for Hillary.

Gotta do some stuff, bbl.

:-)

dog soldier
Thu, 11/30/06
11:24 am

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Dog,

Robert cant explain it for it contadicts what hes doing...................sometime I think hes over there because he cant get a  decent job here..................cheers

Morning all

Robert,
Please explain:
"Yes unfortunatly for you it is a "peace" that you dont understand!"
....

This is not the religious forum.  But the great mistake of many in terms of their discussion of religion is the same mistake that people in the Bible who oppossed Jesus made.

The interpret his teachings as being some manifesto of governance among people.  It is not.

If there is a pivot point of understanding the "peace" that New TEstament Christianity should bring, a capsulated story it is the story of Jesus granting pardon to one of the thiefs who hung next to him during his death.

This man expressed, according to the Text unfailing and certian belief in the power of God through his son to grant salvation through grace.  Jesus did not say to him "So I spare you the cross" or "I make you rich" or " I make you successful" or "You are going to die but I take away your pain" or this or that.  What he told him was "this day you shall be with me in paradise".

The faith that moves mountains is the faith that summons the courage to overcome your personal fears of whatever lies ahead.  And when you overcome those fears about whatever lies ahead, that is the "peace" that Mike is trying to reference. 

Jesus had no problems with The Empire.  There is not a single teaching where he scolds The Empire for its collective acts, there is not a single teaching where he pulls aside a Centurion and says "What are you doing in the Army dont you know that this is an army of occupation, its orders are illegal, go back to Rome and FOR PETES SAKE STOP KILLING".

There is not a word of that, and yet there are several instances in the Text where Jesus interfaces quite favorably with major Figures of The Empire's Army.

The man in the old TEstament who is described as being in Gods own heart.  Was David.  Who was the warrior extroadinare.  And Davids own moment on the cross comes in the 23 Psalms.

There DAvid, who was in some turmoil in his life, finds the same peace that the thief Jesus pardoned found.

Robert

Hi Linda,

Pardon my lurking. He sounds great but he's not a graduate of Spelman College. Spelman is a predominantly black women's college in Atlanta.

I'm enjoying the great conversation!

-Sheri

thanks sherry, I got the colleges mixed up. thanks for sharing

it was morehouse. his sister went to spellman.

32.

AIDS is a public health menace. I am not sure why there needs to be a "go to" person. Providing for the health of the nation is one of the basic purposes of government.
We are not talking here about skating rinks and rodeo arenas.

As Justice Kennedy pointed out (yes, I'm going to keep that up), following the rule of law is not a "matter of grace" on the part of the agents of government. The Constitution mandates that they provide for the health, safety and welfare of the people. If they don't, they are falling down on the job.

I am tired of those who expect citizens to be grateful for the munificence that the federal government dispenses. It's our money, dammit. If they can't deal with infectuous diseases, what good are they?

wow I love watching howard in canada. viva la howard dean.

I read all comments, including lenghty ones (there's a nugget of truth in everyone's posted comments).

IMO, likeability will be the biggest factor on American voters' minds when they enter the voting booth on 11/4/08.

Point is, the total amount is cut, and while urban areas may be stabilized they but still have dire need. Urban/rural shouldn't be the issue, cutting funding for a growing problem is counter-intuitive.==

Thankful, I'm with you on this--the groups that I work with in San Francisco are fighting the same fight that Obama and Hillary are--the proposed cuts are too severe for the urban areas that they represent.  As you say we may be stabilizing in the urban areas but we still have a dire need.

IMO, likeability will be the biggest factor on American voters' minds when they enter the voting booth on 11/4/08.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

rd,

yeah rd..........wonderful logic indeed......................look what it brought down upon us in 2000....may I humbley suggest Americans learn to get their heads out of the asses when voting. Or we may end with another George Bush.

cheers

george will is so full of crap in the wapost this a.m. talking about jim webb being rude to the president.

excuse me mr. will but w is the one that was rude and condecending.

wow I love watching howard in canada. viva la howard dean.  

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

yeah Linda...............Canada is a smart country...........the people there appreciate the likes of Dean...........the same cant be said for here.

42.
Thanks for your thought on this subject.

Juat saw this former headline:

"If Iraqis follow the example of Vietnam by resisting American aggression long enough, they too will drive the foreign occupiers from their nation!"

george will is so full of crap in the wapost this a.m.

He gets paid to be. 

53.

Yes, I sent him a note saying it's a shame he makes a living writing such crap.

likeability will be the biggest factor on American voters' minds when they enter the voting booth on 11/4/08.

So, is LIKABILITY replacing ELECTABILITY, or will there be a melding of the two canards?

"MY favorite candidate is ELECTABLE because he's LIKABLE!

(At least I like him. So everybody MUST also! Right?)" 

Well, let's see how well rich text works in Firefox on a linux box. 

I've got a nice image to share, but it's on my other computer.  Maybe on Hannah too.  Let me go check.

http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/061116/20061116006141.html?.v=1

Press ReleaseSource: Minahan Research

Emotions - the Hidden Factor in Voting Decisions - Emotion Mining/Minahan Research
Thursday November 16, 10:00 pm ET

With the prospect of either of these "firsts" looming, a special study of voters' emotions was conducted online during the last week of the campaign. Respondents, at first, were simply asked how they felt about each candidate. Then, by playing a specialized game, those surveyed were guided to their subconscious emotions. The respondents were encouraged to work with, and expound on, these newly revealed emotions. A comprehensive set of conscious and subconscious emotions were recorded, and all of the results were placed into a 5-dimensional grid that revealed issue-oriented clusters.

...

Dr. Tom Snyder, the methodology's creator, stated "Emotionally speaking, the race was always much closer than everyone thought."

The research was able to record the positive and negative emotions elicited by both candidates, but unlike traditional survey methods, it exposed deep-seated subconscious emotions. According to the study results, in Mr. Patrick's case, strong subconscious negatives such as being unsure of his being an outsider, uncomfortable with his ability, and fear of his dashing hopes were recorded.

"The subconscious emotions of the electorate toward Mr. Patrick were precariously balanced -a slight tip would have narrowed the gap between the candidates. If Kerry Healey's team had targeted Mr. Patrick's subconscious negatives and addressed her own, she could have benefited from the tipping, even in the last weeks of the campaign. Deval Patrick, on the other hand, could have tipped the margin even more in his favor by addressing his specific subconscious negatives and positives," Dr. Snyder explained.

When this methodology was applied in the 2000 presidential race, a similar precarious balance was detected and the slight tipping was tracked. Al Gore led George Bush emotionally in likeability and other positive emotions, but as the election approached, voters held such subconscious negatives as feeling insecure, disreputable and uninterested about Mr. Gore as a leader.

Since the results of this current survey were not released to either candidate before the election, neither campaign was able to take advantage of this new, in-depth look into the collective mind and heart of the electorate. "It seems, now that the results are being openly disclosed, they could be of great benefit to Deval Patrick's new administration. Mr. Patrick's team could hold them up as the GPS navigational system to help guide him around the pitfalls that lie below the surface of public perception," said David Rogovin, a chief strategist with Emotion Mining Company.

The full results of this study are to be presented to the Cognitive Neuroscience Society annual meeting in New York City in the spring.

Through the strategic alliance of Emotion Mining Company, headquartered in Wellesley, MA, and Boston-based Minahan Research, qualitative and quantitative research is approached with a unique view of both the emotional and cognitive aspects. The collaboration specializes in brand, product, and service research, as well as political research. The companies maintain an extensive database for the development of online panels and communities.

According to Al Minahan, President of Minahan Research, "I believe this new technology will play a large role in the strategizing of the 2008 national and local elections."

...

IMO, likeability will be the biggest factor on American voters' minds when they enter the voting booth on 11/4/08....

I dont like the term likeability, but I know what you mean.

I refer to it as "feel good with". 

I never agreed with Dean, or McCain or my political idol Figure Ronaldus the Great.  But I always "felt good" with Ronnie.  I always believed that no matter how he came down on an issue, he would come down on it after giving it a lot of thought, working it with his aides, and determining that it was "the best we could do". 

I've thought that about McCain--unconditionally.  And I thought that about Dean unconditionally until I started seeing the campaign on the inside and then I started getting worried. 

What worries me about Howard now, is that while he is a tiger on the stump, his organizational processes seem completly out of control.

IN the end the best you can do with someone who you elect to the leadership spot is not agree with them on every issue, you wont; it isnt even to like what they do on every issue, you wont; what you have to believe in is that they will do the best they can everytime that they step up to the plate.

If you believe that then anything is possible.

That is the only way things change as well.  Most of the American people dont care about AIDS, Gay rights etc.  They really hve no opinon on health care.  What they do is trust or in HIllary's case in the 90's dont trust them to implement policy on those issues.

Robert

 Sitka, I already said that.  LOL

IMO, likeability will be the biggest factor on American voters' minds when they enter the voting booth on 11/4/08. 

I certainly hope that the American Voters are a little more tuned than making out the 2008 electeion to be a popularity contest.  Obama - All Talk, No Action

I have the highest respect for the American voter who bothers to vote.

This is what I wanted you to see

While Bush was speaking in Latvia, there were actions all over Europe calling for the nuclear weapons to be removed.  You do know that the U.S. is the only country that keeps nuclear weapons in other nations.

If likeability is the key to electability then Barney Fife could have won the Presidency...........lets start electing SMART people, non religious fanatics, and liars.............quit electing Hollywood B-rated actors and CIA sneaks.......................

rdorgan,

I'm not against Obama.  He's interesting, has obvious potential, but doesn't have enough of a track record yet by which to adequately measure him.  His short voting record has had several disappointments.  I'm still watching.  I think it's much too early in his career for him to expect the Presidency, but the national exposure from running will probably be useful.

While the dimensions of that image were a little too large, I was able to link from Hannah to get it for you.  Unlike other sites, Hannah will never put foreign cookies on your computer or infect you with viruses.

When I ask someone about the welfare of their son I don't expect a nasty answer.

Maybe Webb felt that as the one who sent him there for the wrong reasons, he should not have mentioned it. Bush may be really concerned about the troops. He certainly has been rightfully hammered about them.

Webb may be a great guy and certainly has a lot of experience and has sent many more men into harm's way then Bush has.

I wish him well.

I expected better from such a fine person as Webb. Maybe the guy is a concerned parent and is human like the rest of us.

But I don't agree with praising him for being rude.
Maybe we praise him for doing what we want to do and think we would do if given the chance?
Is this proper behavior we expect from our leaders?

how bout we elect a grown up to be president?

how bout howard dean?

I have the highest respect for the American voter who bothers to vote

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

crikey rd..........all ya bloody well gotta do is trot into some stupid voting place......not like youre climbing Mount Everest or running a bleedin marathon or taking medical board exams.........to me, the average American voter with his/her priorities backwards is a dangerous weapon...........witness 2000 and 2004...............but if youre happy with that, what can I say.........

Theres an old saying in Texas, maybe its in tennesse too..............."you get what ya pay for"

cheers

dog soldier
Thu, 11/30/06
12:05 pm

I just one leave you with this note on teh subject.  You were a soldier so you must have seen this yourself.  I could cite some current examples but I use one out of history.

Jonathan Jackson was leading his men at the early battle of the Civil War.  It wasnt going so well for his side  and his men were starting to grow restless seeing the panic of their fellow troopers.   Jackson has his men lie down on the other side of a ridge and yet he stays on his horse on the top of it. 

His aide Captain Pendleton (whose son would be of some note in the future) is beside him on horseback and ask Jackson how he can be so calm.  Jackson's reply, verbatim is "Today I will do one of two things.  I shall either go home to my Savior or I shall give the enemy the bayonet of my men and drive them from my homeland.  Which is my Saviors choice"

Years latter when he was dying of a friendly fire wound, on the day of his death his wife came to see him.  He greated her when sheasked him how he was and his reply was "It is a glourious day, for today I go home to our savior".

Thats peace.  That was Stonewall.

That is the peace Mike and to be fair others, has no clue of.

Robert

http://www.counterpunch.org/mcgovern11302006.html 

Gates is shown to be more parrot than innovator in his responses to a questionnaire given him by the Senate Armed Services Committee, which takes up his nomination on Dec. 5.

None of this surprises those of us who for decades have watched Gates make career after career out of trimming his sails to the prevailing winds. No one should expect Gates to depart one iota from the position of the president, who repeated yesterday that there will be no troop pullout from Iraq "until the job is complete." In answering the senators' questions, Gates insisted that an early pullout would risk "leaving Iraq in chaos [with] dangerous consequences both in the region and globally for many years to come."

No surprise either in Gates' strong endorsement of spending billions more on-and prematurely deploying-the missile defense system that was Rumsfeld's pet project and for an earlier version of which Gates saw fit to advocate, even while he was still CIA director. Even if the system can be made to work (and this has yet to be demonstrated), it is of highly dubious utility in preventing the kinds of terrorist attacks that appear far more likely than a nuclear-tipped missile from a "rogue" state like North Korea or Iran-if they ever succeed in developing one.

Didn't Dean promise not to run if he was made the DNC head?
Dean's days as a candidate are over.
His mission is to rebuild the party at local levels.
His work will enable the Kerry/Obama/Edward/Vilsack/??? to possibly win.

The next big question for Howard.

Will the convention be in Denver or New York City?

I expected better from such a fine person as Webb..

I am glad Webb won, but this is about his speed.  IN many respects Webb never got over his boxing days at Boat School.

"Horney womans dream" Jim, needs some lessons in well manners.

Robert

It's our money, dammit. If they can't deal with infectuous diseases, what good are they?=

You'd be hard pressed to fault either Hillary or Bill Clinton when it comes to the fight against AIDS, Monica.  The NIH and CDC have been very effective despite almost 8 years of a science-hostile Republican administration. 

Huron John
Thu, 11/30/06
12:25 pm

this guy gal doesnt know anything about missile defense or Mr. Gates.

Gates will make a great SecDEF

And we are not leaving until it is over over here.  We have more courage then you do!

Robert

Are we all falling for the msm to crown a president again? now we have "likability" followed by "can't we all get along" and "be civil".

I want a grown up to be president, not some preener. while obama may seen like the candidate de jour, he is not credible at this point.

no to mc cain, guliani, allen, et al.

bring on the grown ups.

the horror show continues on dfa.

I definitely think we need to be looking for management capability in our next President.  I still think it's unforgivable that the national media failed to address that the governor of Texas has virtually NO administrative responsibilities.  That the Democrats didn't make an issue of Gore's practical experience in revamping government agencies (out in the open, not behind closed doors) is also unforgivable.

 But then, the political consultant/pundit/pollster class had pretty much made a mess of everything.  About the only accurate thing that's come from them is Trippi's "The Revolution will not be Televised."  He got that right.

A question raised by the reported Webb/Bush encounter...

What is a person's obligation to be polite in a public setting?

I neither buy that Bush was threatening Webb, nor that Webb was out of line in responding as he did, but both men responded truthfully to their feelings, rather than placing the venier of politeness over their interchange.

Webb could have said "Okay".

Bush could have heard Webb's actual response and made niceties as the receiving line moved on.

Neither did.  Was that bad, or would we rather our politicians be truthful to the point of bluntness?  I think we'd have a healthier country with more of the latter.

We should, however, avoid fistfights. 

55.

Sitka
Thu, 11/30/06
12:13 pm
---------
...lol, Sitka could you please refer to me link to the Lincoln's quote up-thread.

I guess Webb could have countered with "How are your slutty daughters doing George?"

That would have been rude. The reply he gave was not! 

...and some of you call Robert a troll!

Jeesh! 

Ephron on Webb vs Bush:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/nora-ephron/bad-manners_b_35248.html 

"How's your boy?" That, according to George Will, is a civil and caring question, one parent to another? It seems to me that it's exactly the sort of guy talk that passes for conversation in Bushworld, just one-up from the frat-boy banter that is usually so seductive to Bush's guests. George Bush once said to someone I know, "How old is that seersucker suit anyway?" and my friend (who should know better) went for it lock stock and barrel.

So finally someone said to George Bush, Don't think that what you stand for is beside the point. Don't think that because you're President you're entitled to my good opinion. Don't think that asking about my boy means that I believe for even one second that you care. If you did, you'd be doing something about bringing the troops home.

George Will thinks this is bad manners.

I don't.

I think it's too bad it doesn't happen more often.

It's not a matter of finding fault.  It's a matter of being expect to be thankful and give praise for people doing what they are supposed to do.

But, yes, I do fault Hillary for mucking up the medical care issue.  Some of it has evolved into the HMO mess we see today.  Even then they weren't willing to cut out all the middlemen who had arrived to get a sliver of the health-care pie.

Who gave Bill and Hillary their seed money?  The Stevens Group.  Look them up. 

The Ryan White Comprehensive AIDS Resources Emergency Act is named for an Indiana hemophiliac who contracted HIV through a blood transfusion and died of AIDS complications in 1990 at age 18. The now $2 billion-a-year effort has been regularly reauthorized and its funding allocations have often been a matter of contention.

This year's fight has pitted the states in which the AIDS epidemic began -- those with large cities that now have large populations of people with AIDS -- against smaller states in which the incidence of HIV infections, but not full-blown AIDS, has soared. The current law's formula is based on the number of patients with AIDS; the new funding formula would, in effect, distribute funding based on the number of patients with HIV or AIDS.

Support for any particular formula "depends where you sit," said Ernest Hopkins, director of federal affairs for the San Francisco AIDS Foundation. From his vantage, he said, the bill in the Senate "is a problem."

Some of the largest AIDS organization side with Clinton. Gay Men's Health Crisis, for example, "fully supports Senator Clinton's position on the current bill," a spokeswoman said.

On the other hand, Christopher M. Hamlin, chaplain for an outpatient clinic at the University of Alabama at Birmingham, favors the new formula. "The money needs to follow the virus," he said. "More funds need to be directed to the part of the community that has seen the numbers increase so much, especially rural communities."

Lincoln quotations

webb didn't go through the receiving line. he avoided it and bush sought him out.

A question raised by the reported Webb/Bush encounter...

What is a person's obligation to be polite in a public setting?...

The answer to the question is "what are you trying to accomplish?" 

Look, in my life I've had some entertaining "confrontations" with people.  Most of which you have heard of.

But the point when one "matures" is "what are you trying to accomplish?"  What was to be accomplished by Webb's reply?  It was a social setting, it clearly was a social "back and forth", there were in theory no "jury"  to play to (which is what I think makes me the most dissapointed in Webb, this strikes me as a leak on his part and a cheap theatrical trick), THERE NOTHING GOING TO BE CHANGED BY WHAT WEBB DID.

All it was was red meat to the "beloved".  That was it.

had this been a briefing session where there was suppose to be some back and forth then that was one thing.  But from everything I was told all it was was a purely social setting.

And Webb took the cheap shot.  From all accounts Bush was trying to make social banter and Webb took the cheap shot. 

His father many yeas ago after Ford lost was briefing Carter on the situations Facing the CIA.  Bush the old really wanted to stay on as head of the CIA but Carter wanted a change.

Carter indicated that change (this from Mr. Carter himself) so he told Bush "I am sure you are eager to get back to Houston and practice law"  According to Mr. Carter himself (and this has been reported in Time but I have heard it personally) Bush's reply was "Thank you Mr. PResident yes I am".

Bush the old is not a lawyer. 

Webb's answer in style would have been "Listen stupid jerk, I am not a lawyer, what a jerk you are".

There is a time and a place for everything.  The trick to being mature, to really trying to move the debate, not just score ccheap points.  THE SIGN OF POLITICAL MATURITY is to know what 1) is the time and 2) is the place and 3) is the method.

Webb seems to have not found 1-3. 

Robert

BTW, if I could make ONE change in the way Congress conducts hearings it would be to outlaw government officials being THANKED for appearing and not answering questions.  Everyone spends so much time thanking everyone else for nothing, nothing ever gets done.  And it's not much better on the floor of the House and Senate. 

When did government become awash with gratitude? 

It's a matter of being expect to be thankful and give praise for people doing what they are supposed to do.==

I believe it is a matter of tracking what our elected representatives *do* in terms of votes and support and generation of legislation.  On the issue of AIDS, particularly the global AIDS pandemic, Bill Clinton deserves much of the credit....without his efforts we may have lost nearly all of subsaharan Africa...no exaggeration of either the importance and effectiveness of his efforts or the gravity of the AIDS crisis in that part of Africa.

Hillary receives high praises from the HIV/AIDS organizations in New York and the rest of the country.

I don't recall any of my posts suggesting that we "thank" anyone.  I do believe it important to accurately state the actions, positions, etc., of our elected representatives. 

An Internet "troll" is a person who delights in sowing discord on the Internet. Don't help him do his dirty work.

Webb's reaction is something that pundits will blow out of proportion.  They are so out of touch with the critical role of a free press in a democracy that it depresses me.

That story was barely back-page news...much less front page.

Ignore it and move on, I say.     

Sitka
Thu, 11/30/06
12:49 pm

still "trolling for adoration" Sitka. 

Dont worry if you keep endlessly posting this another of the beloved will tell you how much they appreciate you!

Troll

Robert

Thats peace.  That was Stonewall.

Such is the peace of Death.

I prefer the immortal Peace that dwells in the Compassionate Heart. 

47. Yep, cutting in urban areas is too severe. Robbing Peter to pay Paul just doesn't work. The stabilization in urban areas will go poof, what then? Rob Paul to pay Peter! Allocating funding by geography sucks. Thanks for your input :-)

Rich - with ya again on the Webb/Bush thing. People respond from their perspective and truthfulness and real discussion would make for a healthier country. More on the salaries - while I agree many CEO's/execs work tremendously hard, the disparity has become way out of proportion. An aside, I'm acquainted with several of 'them' (of those based in Chitown) and know many to be good people who give a great deal of time, energy, and money to all manner of social services.

linda b - I'm with you - elect ability not pretty faces. Bring on the grown-ups.

webb didn't go through the receiving line. he avoided it and bush sought him out.  

yeap this just makes the whole thing bizzare.

If "HW Dream" Jim didnt want his picture taken with the POTUS, didnt want to go through the recieving line...WHY THE HECK GO TO THE WHITE HOUSE?  What for the food?

This was completly arrogant and immature behavior on his part.  It is like NOT standing when The President comes in.  It is "one to many hits in the boxing turnys". 

Put the shoes on the other foot.

Imagine old Jimbo as SecNav.  He comes up to a Father whose daughter is at the Naval Academy and says "How is your daughter doing?" and the answer is "That is between me and my Daughter Mr. Secretary, you didnt make it any easier by implying she was Horny".

How do you think old Jimbo would have acted?

Robert

Robert,
I was never that kind of calm. Even after many battles and firefights I was always worried about my performance being good enough.
As you know, my job was to see to the troops. Did they have the right combat loads or positioned right or camouflaged correctly. Make sure their weapons were clean. Did they write their folks? They were better then the girl friend that dumped them! If on the patrol, we are waiting for the enemy to hit us. Is our spacing right? Is the point man alert enough? I am trying to cover every option in advance. A zillion things go through your sub-conscious mind until the first contact. Then you do your fight job. After a few times, the actual events seem to happen in slow-motion. The training and trust we had with each other gets us through. I never thought about God but sometimes I would shut everything else out and think. It would almost be a Zen state while I concentrated on what was before us. Although I did the "Lord get us through this day and I am yours" many times.

Ignore it and move on, I say.

Trouble is, that's what Kerry's advisors recommended about the swiftboaters.

Webb can be a very effective thorn in Bush's side and they want nothing more than to neutralize him coming out of the gate by making already timid DCDemocrats afraid to associate with him-- Bush may have even sought Webb out in order to provoke a confrontation that could be spun against him. 

Every attack must be countered or it will become an accepted fact in DC .

Completly different subject...

Anyone see the opening to CSI New York? 

It is one of the best put together  seques that I have seen since a scene in NCIS Dopplegang or something like that with Mark Harmon and a woman character in his basement.  The images the music, the sounds, the acting all are just well put together.

The Stones music is not bad either...makes you want to get out your guitar and play along

Robert

dog soldier
Thu, 11/30/06
12:58 pm

That kind of calm does not imply a lack of concern over wheather or not you will make the right calls and do the right things.  It just allows more time for them because you dont worry about "your personal" death.

As a boss told me at BUDS...if you are worried about dying, you probably will find a way to do it.  Death is going to come to all of us and it will come not at our pleasure but I believe at Gods.  Why fear it?

Worry more about your performance here on earth.

I worry all the time about that.

I dont know you from squat, but if your men felt safe with you.  Then you were doing your job.

Robert

89. Thank you for saying so! Given 10 (or however many) minutes to ask questions, every panel member spends 8-9 blah, blah, blah'ing, asks a question or two that doesn't get answered and then stands down. The Abu Ghraib hearings were among the very worst. Left my head spinning with disbelief.

yep, it is starting already, vote for ...................... he is a nice guy, yada, yada, yada.

I voted for webb after talking to him at length on many occasions.

he doesn't look over your shoulder at who he can get a vote for or money from.

he looks you right in the eye.

I watched him as he talked to a young  mother about her son that had just been deployed to iraq. no patronizing mumble jumble, just a concerned father and mother in conversation.

I am tired of politicians pandering.

In Jim Webb, we have a statesman. Not a politician.

How rare, How wonderful. How so Howard Dean of him.

86.

Sitka
Thu, 11/30/06
12:42 pm

Thanks,

I've drilled down a little and find some more quotes:

History suggests that capitalism is a necessary condition for political freedom. Clearly it is not a sufficient condition.
~ Milton Friedman ~

What breaks capitalism, all that will ever break capitalism, is capitalists. The faster they run the more strain on their heart.
~ Raymond Williams ~

Capitalism without bankruptcy is like Christianity without hell.
~ Frank Borman ~

Making capitalism out of socialism is like making eggs out of an omelet.
~ Vadim Bakatin ~

An Internet "troll" is a person who delights in sowing discord on the Internet

By that definition, there are quite a few trolls on this blog, and not all of them agree with Robert on the issues.

Which I guess was my point. 

oops, certainly: find = found

Remember to wear your red ribbon tomorrow - why not every day?
~ ~ ~

Greetings!

[...]

Tomorrow, Friday, December 1, 2006, is World AIDS Day. Let World AIDS Day 2006 be the day we all recommit ourselves to doing all that we can in the fight to end HIV/AIDS. Please consider volunteering, creating a panel, getting tested, or visiting a display of The Quilt in your area. Seeing The Quilt is a meaningful way to mark the day and to turn remembrance into action. For a complete listing of World AIDS Day displays, please go to AIDSQuilt.org.

Sincerely,
Julie Rhoad
Executive Director
The NAMES Project Foundation

and leave the bush twins out of this!!!!!!!!

the are defending us in Argentina!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Fighting for our freedom to, to, to, well to party!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Leaking

 What a fun topic.

Try to guess who leaked what and why.  I can see justifications for both Bush's people and Webb's people to leak this incident.

In the same way, I can see both pro and anti Iraq war people leaking that memo about Maliki.

Which is, I guess, why just about everything in DC ends up getting leaked, there's always a way to spin a leak to help someone, maybe both sides. 

Making capitalism out of socialism is like making eggs out of an omelet. ~ Vadim Bakatin ~

He should tell that to the Chinese. 

Capitalism without bankruptcy is like Christianity without hell.
~ Frank Borman ~

did you know that frank borman, once head of Eastern Airlines, was the one who owned the company that took people off the voter rolls in florida during the 2000 election?

that frank borman. the one who is going to hell.

so it depends on who is the leaker and the leakie.

109.

Sitka
Thu, 11/30/06
1:11 pm
----------

I don't think Chinese ever had a socialism (although they may call it so)..., neither I think anyone had...yet...

110.

linda b
Thu, 11/30/06
1:12 pm

did you know that frank borman, once head of Eastern Airlines, was the one who owned the company that took people off the voter rolls in florida during the 2000 election?
--------

No, I didn't know that.

Robert,
I never worried about my personel death. There is nothing you can do about it. If it comes, it comes. I never wanted to screw up and get my guys killed. I think I did a good job of helping get us through some pretty tough times. Sometimes it is out of your hands. The leader of the enemy is thinking the same thoughts I am and today just might be his day.
The only thing you can do is the best you can do and move on. Put your people back together for the next one.

New thread, y'all

so after frank borman sold, er, gave eastern airlines to frank lorenzo, he said, "gee, I think I will retire to Texas and form a company that will take voters off the voting rolls so we can steal elections".

gee thanks frank, and I thought you were an upstanding guy. Not.

Bush went to jordan to pat Iraqi PM Maliki on the back -- but found his own knife already in it.

A week later he was gone. 

Bush backed "Rummy"

A weel later he was gone.

Bush backs Maliki.

Will he last a week? 

rich^kolker
Thu, 11/30/06
1:11 pm

The administration leaked the Malaki memo.  I am sure it was "eyes only" with a signed and encoded distribution list.  Those are almost impossible to leak without being found out. 

They have every reason to leak the memo.  Bush doesnt like to "do bad news" and I am sure that he didnt have to after the memo.

The Webb thing...I am told by Gunner that it was Webb that put the story out.    He seems pretty sure of that but then again he has a vested insterest!  But I believe he believes his source. I knowwhen he is working me...

Robert

Obama vs. Gore -- who wins? (w/ poll)
by d bad [Subscribe]

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/11/30...

dog soldier
Thu, 11/30/06
1:25 pm

Sounds like you do "allright" (grin).  AS "my friend" told a Marine Capt after a very nasty firefight in Ramadi..."We lose people, the cost of mistakes is the lives of your people.  Mistakes are inevitable.  Just learn from them, dont make the same ones again, because you will surely make others.  That is how it has been and how it will always be. And most of the time you lose them, without making a single mistake.  We lose people.".

My friend got the same speech the first time he lost people.

You move on.

Robert

dog soldier
Thu, 11/30/06
1:25 pm

should be "sounds like you did alright"...and that is a supreme compliment.

Robert

Thanks Robert. I always had good people to work with.