WOOOOO what a post!!

Kickass DrDean! xoxo

Howard Dean speaks for me!
~~~~~~~~~~


Just what I was thinking, sick of 2008 yet?

Enough with the '08 Presidential 'Buzz' Already
By Matt Taibbi, RollingStone.com
Posted on November 15, 2006, Printed on November 18, 2006
http://www.alternet.org/story/44338/

Hi Kimmy, great firstie!

And of course, the Deans are first and foremost always.

Sheri is so Dean-esque. Love her input into these posts!

50 state strategy - eat, sleep and breathe it.

Hey all xo

Agree vb, Sheri's an amazing addition to DFA.. excitng posts!

Hi Kimmy! What you been up to?

http://m1e.net/c?43258465-97NYqu85Tlk.E%402060813-ldE1zvG5P8Pvs

this came in the mail this morning. Amazing what you can do with a cell phone!

Hey, mz kimmy! Nice to see you with (ggRREEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAATTTT!!) firsties, lol! 

Just waiting for energy pills to kick in here so I can tackle the log across my road.   

175.

Monica Smith
Sat, 11/18/06
9:46 am

From the last thread, Monica I hope you are not right on but I fear you could be -- that is so damning.

re: '08 -- you know what would bore me out of my gourd? Hill/Vilsack. I would just have to give up on the blog, CSPAN, KOS, etc, maybe register as a Libertarian or something. They might even be competent but my goodness, you would want to sleep through it wouldn't you? Talk about same old same old...

And Phil thanx for the advice about bow saws: will see if I can find mine.  (But if I remember correctly, it may not be big enough: this is a whole cedar tree, and a big 'un!)

Cool thing about cedar: when it burns it makes purple, blue, magenta little flamies.  Smells good, too.   And this tree has a LOT of firewood in it!  

Yes, Sheri, it's about the money. If you think this is a big fight, wait 'til we try to pry the insurance-middlemen out of our health-care system.

Carville and his associates really aren't anything but middlemen between the citizens and their representatives. What a power trip!

And, absolutely no responsibility or accountability. When a campaign is unsuccessful, it's the candidate's fault. When a campaign is a "winning" one, it's because of the persuasive powers of the consultants, managers and pollsters. What a sweet deal.

Who can fault them for not wanting to give it up?

At least we're getting something for all the money spent in 2003!!!!

hey all..jess, not much..burrito project (homeless thing) and no sleep whatsoever, becoming a zombie, being huge, sciatic hell and umm oh yeah, kids and frank and that kinda stuff

;)

going to catch all the news...
xo

Good Morning All

GREEEAAAAAT Post. I love this paragraph....a great message to those OLD Democrats (that aren't even DNC members-Mr Carville), that this IS the policy


"Dean was undeterred by the Washington criticism.

"We are going to do the 50-state strategy for the next 150 years so we can be the dominant party power in this country again," he said. "You can't be the powerful party in this country who controls the government unless you are willing to let the people control you. And the only way you can do that is ask everybody for their vote, understand everybody is our boss even if they vote for you or not."

In other news. Aren't we thrilled they lifted the ban on silicone. I know I enjoy baking with mine. :)

11`. Sounds like you have your firewood for awhile!

sciatic hell

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

kimmy, been there, done that, got the corset to show for it.  At least it's winter, and they're easier to wear in cold weather.  Do get one: they help.  A LOT. 

15. LOL, Linda!!!! When I saw that on the news - they were showing a huge implant - made me think of Pamela Sue Anderson.

Kimmy, this Burrito Project?http://www.myspace.com/burritoprojectWhat a great idear! Someone gave me a whole cooked chicken once when I was homeless. Best damn chicken I've ever had.

Thanks for a terrific post Sheri.  Howard Dean speaks for me.  Only one thing missing, a picture of Dean at the meeting.

maryvb

LMAO! I just saw the same clip. I said OMG, they can't be for implants, those are huge, my husband just looked at me and said "not for some".

vb, I do, lol!  Just that my wood burned isn't hooked up!  It's really old, and you have to leave the door open to see the pretty fire cedar makes.  Dreaming of a hot-shot Jotul. . . .

Oscar's Saturday Comics are up.

HOWARD POWERED!

The Dr. is in the house, and senate, and governors offices, etc....

morning all. great day here in the state of va. wow. u should read some of the letters to the editor. one rethug this a.m. is blowing a gasket about those liberals that dun took over last week.

hateful, hateful, but hey those gays can't marry in va.

no health insurance. who cares, gays can't marry in va.

no food on the table, who cares gays can't marry in va.

no heat in the house? who cares, gays can't marry in va.

I look at thsoe people and think of those people in the movie "deliverance".

but gays can't marry in va.

and Howard Dean, I love you for standing your ground. but you knew that.

What a humor filled morning. The news just put on the fact that the Republicans were keeping a Blunt/Boner team for the House.

Blunt said it's an opportunity "to redefine who we are and to maybe get rid of the bad habbits they we may have developed in the 12 years in the majority". My husband just yelped "Bad Habits? I thought they were criminal f@****g ACTS!"

****************************BLOG BOOK CLUB*****************************
Book/Movie: Fast Food Nation
GUEST BLOGGER: the author,  Eric Schlosser
WHEN: after Thanksgiving ( nailing down the date)
WHERE: on www.blogforamerica.com
About the book and movie:
Agatha and I went to a sneak preview of the film. It is really powerful, and more about the state of America, than about food. It is a very different kind of movie, and well worth watching. In a nut shell, it is about how profit margins are running this country.  Eric Scholosser is an amazing person, journalist, and now screen writer. He is very smart, and believe it or not, he is not a vegitarian, but he only eats organic. He is excited to join us here.

The book is also great. So see the movie, and or read the book. 
Spread the word about this Blog Book Club event.
I haven't talked to JC about this yet ( just happened) So when she and I hook up on this, and I figure out "clicky" will have stuff up on her Blog Book Club site.

linda b, yes...latest report that last year while Bush wants to spend 30 Billion dollars on a small section of wall at the border, even then he said it would cost 2 Billion, in AMERICA 11 million people were starving from not being able to eat a meal and go to bed hungry.

DISGUSTING.

28. Chris

Cool!

10.

Me too, I often prefer not to be right. Being wrong is much better.

The blog does not like Opera on a Linux box. It lets me compose OK in plain text, but I have to hit refresh for the post to go through.

National Nurse:

the press conference for Fast Food Nation was held by a group called healthy lunches--which focuses on lunches in schools.. very interesting. Also several important leaders in the fight against corporations running our food supply.  They said that recently at the Clinton Foundation event, The American Heart Association pledged that they would voluntarily stop pushing and participating and allowing corps to target all this bad food to kids. This panel at the press conference said that when orgs pledge that they will voluntarily  take actions--it usually is a lie motivated to prevent government legislation to regulate them.

Any way I thought these groups ( which are great, growing nationally) should get together with you.  I have the contacts. Don't know how to clicky to do the email me thing though :-(

http://m1e.net/c?43258465-97NYqu85Tlk.E%...

Jessica Falkener--

Hi how are you? did you run for election this year again? Did you win? Hence honarable?

Yeah, it is really cool about the Fast Food Nation Blog Book Club... a very layered film. A little longer than I think it should have been, but well worth it. 

 millions go to bed hungry in America

--and it is not for lack of food that can be available... our government and corportations ( oxymoran) subsidize and controls the food market. The food supply in our country is HUGE, we distroy food every day, so that corps profits aren't touched. The old suppy and demand and free market is completely manipulated when it doesn't favor the corps.

the "illegals" keep the corporations in the $$$, cheaper labor, no safety laws, no benefits.. That wall to keep out immigrants is BS, I don't think it will every happen, and I actually don't think it should. America is founded on immigrants--

We need our unions back-

Sample of Oscar's 'toons. . . .

Good mornin' Mz Christy.  Miss you. . . .

morning Puddle

--miss you very much too--- heard you might be coming through this way? Hope so. HoJo's aint that bad :-)

Chris ~~ put in a word, any word, and highlight it, then the fifth icon from the left on your toolbox head gets dark, click it, and you can drop in a link (or an email addy).  See?

Nevermind, lol!  That surely didn't work.  Guess you just have to put it in like this: puddleriver13 @  yahoo.com (take out spaces).

And no, Hojo ain't bad. . . . 

Test for CLICKY to my email addy

Howard Dean speaks for me, and . . . . .

he speaks for America's heartland - which used to mean " the best in all of us", but has been expropriated by people who have no heart.

A,AA,IISVGTBHAF.

Kimmy Cash is number one !  it is people like her - who had been disregarded by both major political parties - who are the heartland of America.

Also number one - Howard Dean ! W00t !

Methinks that Matalin has been feeding Carville some of that Republican kool-aid. Probably slipping it into his Dixie beer when he isn't looking. If Snakehead wants to make hisself useful, he'll go back to Nawlins and he'p them rebuild.....and keep his mouth shut. Carville is definitely last.

The party chairs had a great birthday present for Howard.

"My theories appall you, my heresies outrage you, I never answer letters and you don't like my tie."
-- The Doctor 

During the interview, Frost suggested that the West's intervention in Iraq had "so far been pretty much of a disaster."

Blair replied: "It has, but you see what I say to people is why is it difficult in Iraq? It's not difficult because of some accident in planning, it's difficult because there's a deliberate strategy -- al Qaeda with Sunni insurgents on one hand, Iranian-backed elements with Shia militias on the other -- to create a situation in which the will of the majority for peace is displaced by the will of the minority for war."

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/11/1...

so did my clicky work? it didnt for me. except i am on bad computer right now so maybe my equipment.

LOVE IT! 

Dean was undeterred by the Washington criticism.

"We are going to do the 50-state strategy for the next 150 years so we can be the dominant party power in this country again," he said. "You can't be the powerful party in this country who controls the government unless you are willing to let the people control you. And the only way you can do that is ask everybody for their vote, understand everybody is our boss even if they vote for you or not."

--how stupid do they think the public is   @#$%&%^

Sorry for the bad advice, Chris.  I should have checked it out before I told you. 

 Another deficit for this software. . . .

Chris, according to their actions, I'd say they think the public is pretty dumb.

I mean, they constantly say the most outlandish lies with such straight (still) faces, don't they.

Even Carville. Except his ridiculous comment was so stupid, even the opposition had to have squirmed on that one. No wonder Rahm E. called Governor Dean to distance himself from Carville.

Linda*in*SFNM
Sat, 11/18/06
12:12 pm

Linda.

The fence on the southern border is not going to cost 30 billion...about 1/'10th of that when it is all said and done.  The FENCE I WOULD BUILD would cost 30 billion dollars. 

Mine would have multiple layers, Mines in between and the like...but they are not building my fence.

A fence is worth whatever it takes.

I know people who have lost their jobs due to illegal aliens.  You explain to them why the illegals have a right to be here!

Robert

Frost suggested that the West's intervention in Iraq had "so far been pretty much of a disaster."

Blair replied: "It has, but you see what I say to people is why is it difficult in Iraq? 

Linda*in*SFNM
Sat, 11/18/06
12:12 pm

Good afternoon, bloggers! 

Yeah, those darn A-rabs just don't want to cooperate with us! I wonder why?????

No wonder Rahm E. called Governor Dean to distance himself from Carville.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Good!  Now if the SCLM would just pick up on it. . . .  

ChrisNYC
Sat, 11/18/06
12:29 pm

The problems in country are difficult because of three things.

First there are forces in teh world who oppose Freedom.

Second there has been bad planning.

Third there is an inherent difficulty in giving representative government to people who have never had it.

What I find most amusing about the anti war left is three things.

First they dont seem to care that some forces oppose freedom.

Second the further they are from the sound of the guns the more anti war they are! (courage is lacking)

Three they dont seem to understand a lot of history!

Robert

Mines in between and the like...

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

What IS considered a capital offense in this country?

 We should kill people for misdemeanors?  Leave it to the loony righties. . . .

Straw man has arrived.

If I only had a brain......

Yeah, those darn A-rabs just don't want to cooperate with us! I wonder why?????

It is not very hard to understand.   There are evil people in the world who dont like Freedom or thought or action or just Freedom in general.  And they are willing to impose their beliefs with violence.  The west on the other hand is stuck with a bunch of cowards who for the most part wont fight for anything that they believe in...they just make a lot of noise.

Robert

What I find most amusing about the anti war left is three things.

First they dont seem to care that some forces oppose freedom.

Second the further they are from the sound of the guns the more anti war they are! (courage is lacking)

Three they dont seem to understand a lot of history!

Robert

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Good parrot, Mr Parrot.  When the war is over you can get a job writing script for Limbaugh.

Oooooh!  Now I feel so. . . . dirty.  Guess I'll go clean my toilet.

Here is a video clip of Howad Dean in Wyoming yesterday.  Also an article about it.

This is where he said this was the NEW Democratic Party, the old one was back in Washington.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/658

puddle
Sat, 11/18/06
12:44 pm

I think coming across the border illegally should be treated as an invasion of The Republic.  In Mexico they shoot people on site who come across their border.

Robert

jess, yes, thats it!

miss puddle, i hear you ..thinking of getting of those maternity belts for sure

"the new democratic part" ..god that doc, hes so dreamy

  And they are willing to impose their beliefs with violence

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

and our invading force used pamphlets?

61.floridagal -- thanks for the video link will look at it on monday on good computer.I love the old dem party approach--the Dr. has taken off his gloves!!! 

Morning Folks,

Last night Keith Olbermann, Bill Maher, and the Huffington Post all commented on the bizarre remark by Bush on what he learned from Vietnam.  The man's a basket case.

Also, Richard Dreyfus on Bill Maher was very impressive in his criticism of the media for making it infotainment, for becoming the lackey of the party in power (Fox, big surprise!). Dan Rather was also on and will be reporting in a weekly news program on high density TV, which can be accessed with cable and satellite dish.  

Bill Paley of CBS, Dreyfus remarked, recognized the importance of questioning power, of searching for the truth in the news, and he took a 5 million dollar loss each month.  The corporate heads on the networks have decided the news should be profitable; hence, Katie Couric, pablum, People Magazine type stuff, and they  make more money than Bill Paley ever did.

Dreyfus called for political paricipation and education through teaching Civics. He noted that we are a small blip in human history with our democratic republic, that the natural tendency of humankind is to want to be told what to do, what to think, and where to go.  But, we have to teach people to think, to teach them to participate and expect to be heard, to engage in dialogue and discussion.  (Guess the blogs exemplify that pretty well as do all who engage here.)  If we've learned nothing these past six years, it is that power lust is nearly unstoppable, that those who covet power will lie, cheat, steal, bribe, murder, and exploit.  We, the people, are the only way to hold it in check, and Howard Dean is the kind of leader who kindled that passion to fight for this democratic republic.  We are in a battle now, but I think we have a chance of winning.

However, Bush's nominee to head the Family Planning department is a right wing Christian doctor who made the remark that contraceptives are demeaning to women, who heads a clinic right next to Planned Parenthood and operates as if they were a place that offered counseling to women, but in reality manipulate them into following their dictates of no contraception, no abortion, etc.  Once more, Bush lies with utter arrogance.  He's no bipartisan.  It's full steam ahead for the right wing agenda.

Lastly, I think maybe Carville did Howard Dean a favor.  How many times have people been outraged at how Dean was treated!  And how many times do we all come together in defense of him  in our appreciation for his leadership.  Thanks Carville, you jerk. 

floridagal .
Sat, 11/18/06
12:47 pm

Thanks for the video link. But what's up with his haircut? Way too short.

oops, or is that  "put on his gloves"

how about just " rolled up his sleeves" " not pinned against the rope"...

 I think it is taken off his gloves

Yeah, Pat..great choice eh? god damn..

heres a link to an AP on that doctor...

Keroack currently is medical director of A Woman's Concern, a Christian nonprofit. The Dorchester, Mass.-based organization runs six centers in the state that offer free pregnancy testing, ultrasounds and counseling. It also works to "help women escape the temptation and violence of abortion," according to its statement of faith. And it opposes contraception, saying its use increases out-of-wedlock pregnancy and abortion rates.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061118/ap_o...

Phil Specht
Sat, 11/18/06
12:55 pm

Pretty much. 

We used force of arms to take down a brutal government with a brutal security apparatus.  One I would suggest that almost everyone here would find distasteful living under (well I assume a lot of people like Riverbend and she is a Saddam toady).

Then we more or less said "good luck" with your government organization and let the chips fall where they might in the elections.   As a result we got some people elected BY THE PEOPLE PHIL who frankly are not very helpful (grin) but who are elected.

The problem of many HERE is that 1) they dont know history 2) they dont know reality and 3) they equate what their own personal feelings are with history and events. 

The premise of your post is such an illustration of number 3.  Equating our attempt to overthrow a brutal non responsive (at least to the people) government with those who WOULD IMPOSE their own political/religios beliefs is kind of like what they use to do in the south.  Hail the KKK as heroes and villify the FBI.

I dont see how "progressives" like that company.

Robert

Sorry for the too long post.  Got carried away. 

Have a good day after Howard's Birthday day. 

Thanks Kimmy, for the factual addition.  Pretty appalling, isn't it.  Planned Parenthood people are fearful that the good doctor will use his 300 million dollar budget to fund abstinence programs.

Bummer: Heather Wilson will be certified as winner in NM. 800 votes out of 200,000 works out to be about 4/10 of 1 %. Recount. Recount. Recount???

I hope u all get a chance to see bill mahr's show from last nite.

real time with bill mahr. Richard Dryfuss was on. Amazing. Talking about civics. and how it should be taught in all schools. Very smart guy. Met him awhle ago in southwest virginia. when he was making "what about bob" . Serious guy. and smart.

watch bill mahr if you get a chance.

LOL Robert, I guess you would be the kind of person who would spend 10 times the amount for bars being put all over your house to protect you from the plague? No it doesn't make sense at all, and that's the point. The Governments own estimates has that t i n y piece of wall costing 30 Billion, not the 2 Billion Bush said. I can appreciate your opinion that that type of miscalculation and expenditure is absurd and I would say yes it is, but we are talking about Bush and the Republicans, so that type of absurdity is the norm.


Unfortunately Puddle, that would be good news for the Dems...and we know the Corporate Media wouldn't want to do that. One day soon it will hit them....because they don't admit it, doesn't make so. The world will go on without their help and they will be useless. Now ask how much prices for advertising...without being a major event, have dropped. One day soon....

Opposition to contraception isn't just for single people any more.

Albert Mohler, president of the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, has become one of its most prominent advocates. “If a couple sees children as an imposition, as something to be vaccinated against, like an illness, that betrays a deeply erroneous understanding of marriage and children,” says Mohler. “Children should be seen as good by default.”

Also, Richard Dreyfus on Bill Maher was very impressive in his criticism of the media for making it infotainment, ..

Ah Allen and Boston Legal!

Infotainment is where you find it.  Air America is infotainment as well...it is just not all that good infotainment. 

I've listened to air America some and for the most part is is not funny, it is not good news, it is not something that you can have on as "background" listening (which is what mostly radio is).  I cant take Rush for all that long.  But at least he is "funnY'.

The humor man is Gordo LIddy...The "G MAN".  We agree on almost nothing well maybe we agree on his stacked and packed calender!  But 30 minutes of G man is at least something that one can listen to and have some humor with.  He makes fun of himself, he is not all that "

There is stuff that is "Funny" and left.  Obermann is mostly funny.  He has good humor and keeps the show moving..

If I want serious news without much slant I turn on Chris Matthews, the NBC news, MTP, FTN,

At least on Fox you can turn the sound down and watch the info babes.

Robert

LOL Robert, I guess you would be the kind of person who would spend 10 times the amount for bars being put all over your house to protect you from the plague?

.....

Nope.  I wash my hands to prevent germs and have good hygiene that is what you do for sickness.  As the medico's say here I have the immune system of a horse.

My house at home has zero bars on it, and until I knew I was leaving for a bit not even really what you would call great security.  I love "windows" and the house has been rebuilt to have extensive glass frontage for a wide open view.

If someone breaks in while I am "away" thats fine.  There is insurance.

If someone breaks in while I am there.  There is my .45 automatic and big guage shotgun coupled with my KBAR knife.  As long as there are less then five that should make it a fair fight.

LOL

Robert

Blair said:

  "... what I say to people is why is it difficult in Iraq? It's not difficult because of some accident in planning, it's difficult because there's a deliberate strategy -- al Qaeda with Sunni insurgents on one hand, Iranian-backed elements with Shia militias on the other -- to create a situation in which the will of the majority for peace is displaced by the will of the minority for war."

That's the meat of what I found in the article. 

Look, it's hard to believe, but it is my belief that the movement that is Islamism (not Islam) is here and poised to attack (again).  Am I alone in wanting to confront Islamism?

Bummer: Heather Wilson will be certified as winner in NM. 800 votes out of 200,000 works out to be about 4/10 of 1 %. Recount. Recount. Recount???  

WAIT A MINUTE.  REcounts were bad when Geoge Allen was thinking about one.  When a GOP person wants one they are bad and a Dem wants one they are good?

I am glad Heather won.  The McCain majority!

Robert

Great post, Sheri!  Great firsties, kimmy! 

 ********

News about the Wonderful! Molly ... while she is as spunky as ever, the news is not good.  h/t to kos

===========

Molly Ivins appeared at a panel discussion at Harvard's Shorenstein Center on Press, Politics, and Public Policy today.  She came in wearing all black, including a black hat, and using a cane.  She's lost a lot of weight and her voice is much softer but she still has her keen mind and that Texas tang to her words.  Her take on the modern media landscape is that the newspaper owners seem to be committing suicide.  It was an economic and class argument and, of course, nobody else on the panel, including Garance Franke-Ruta, Jack Shafer, and EJ Dionne, picked up on her point.

I went to see her because I'd heard that her cancer had returned and I wanted to thank her in person for her work while I had the chance.  After the end of the panel, I took the opportunity to tell her that there were more people who loved her than she knew, thanked her for her work, and said that I wanted to see her columns on the coming war crimes tribunal for the Bush junta, complete with the picture of her sitting on W's lap many years ago.  
[...]

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2006/11/17/184136/05

I see Rambo's ranting again.

" The problem of many HERE is that 1) they dont know history 2) they dont know reality and 3) they equate what their own personal feelings are with history and events. "

Talk of victory in Iraq is delusional.

Some of us know a lot more history than Rambo, and are a lot more realistic.

So, Robert, I guess Heather Wilson is a ...Cainite?

Linda*in*SFNM
Sat, 11/18/06
1:07 pm

That should be "as long as there are five or less"...sorry It use to be "three or less" but the last 18 months have given me some quite good confidence that five or less is quite doable!

It wont cost 30 billion (the fence)...if it does so what?  We have to protect The Republic from people who are not wanted coming here.  I dont care what their conditions are at home!

Robert

Wow, Indy, thanks for the bad news. I didn't hear that. Lastnight a Judge ruled they could finalize the count Monday, so I didn't expect that. That bites a big weany. Pretty funny though too, that an Incumbents squeezed out a win by only 879 votes.

So, Robert, I guess Heather Wilson is a ....

likely member of "The McCain Majority". 

I use to think 00 was the moment stolen from McCain by history and events...but the more things go on the more I become certian 08 his histories summons to the stage of Greatness. 

People like WIlson, Lieberman etc are part of that "moment".

Robert

From Taylor Marsh's blog

Rocky Jones
Sat, 11/18/06
1:22 pm

> I will not be voting for him, but he is the best the conservatives might nominate.

I

Talk of victory in Iraq is delusional.....

What people like you said in Korea after Chosen.

The voters in 06 specifically rejected cut and run...ask Ned Lamont.  The ONE PERSON of high profile who ran on Cut and Run was Neddy and he is deady.

Robert

...couldn't fetch the Dean in Wyoming video, so I'm gonna check this out:

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rn6R18rt4kM

Howard Dean on the Daily Show

I think there may be a recount in heather wilson's case. that close has to have a recount.

Helen Thomas is still calling spades spades.

============

HELEN THOMAS: "It's over for them & their big dreams of pre-emptive wars & conquest"

Friday, November 17, 2006

Neocons blame Bush for Iraq fiasco

By HELEN THOMAS
HEARST NEWSPAPERS

WASHINGTON -- The mid-term elections sounded the requiem for the group of neoconservatives who helped design the disastrous U.S. invasion of Iraq.

It's over for them and their big dreams of pre-emptive wars and conquest of the Middle East. If anything, this group has left America weakened by the tragic military misadventure in Iraq. They convinced President Bush it would be a "cakewalk" to invade and occupy Iraq but it has turned out otherwise. Those power-driven ideologues have learned that the price for their dream was high -- too high.

So much for their calamitous "Project for A New American Century," which laid out the agenda to transform several Arab nations to their liking. It also meant sending Americans to kill and die for reasons yet to be explained by the president.

The neocons now blame a dysfunctional Bush administration -- not their own ignorance of the history of the Arab world. They have belatedly learned that Iraqis -- like any other people -- will fight any foreign invader and occupier. History would have shown them that overcoming an insurgency in the form of internal resistance has been a losing proposition. Look at the experiences of such high-powered nations as the U.S. in Vietnam, the Soviet Union in Afghanistan and the French in Algeria.
[...]

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/opinion/292666_thomas17.html

Imn2Paine
Sat, 11/18/06
1:24 pm

Anything is possible and McNasty might implode (so might HIllary) but I have dreams of a great presidential race.

McCain for the GOP and HIllary for the Dems.  Both are serious people for serious times.  Both lack a certian ability to run on just pure Bill Clinton or Ronaldus the Great Charm.  They are both people who in the end have to win or lose on their competence in terms of the message that they present to The American people...

I've watched Hillary go at it in debates and its not bad, I've watched them both on the floor...and they are substantive people who know the issues.

This country has so much power, so much potential all it needs is a campaign that is on issues not personality and a leader who comes into office that way.

I think that the JR Senator from IL might prove to be up to the task as well...but he might implode quicker on teh campaign trail.  HRC is pretty tested in battle.

It could be the greatest campaign of my lifetime since 1980.

Robert

JudyforDean
Sat, 11/18/06
1:28 pm

Helen is fading.

Robert

I said cut and walk, not c&r.  There's a big difference.

And it's going to happen sooner or later.

Why not sooner? 

If only more journalists would *fade* like Helen, democracy would be much healthier.

  What people like you said in Korea after Chosen.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Our History Professor is now going to claim victory in Korea despite the fact it has yet to be concluded with a treaty.

The neocons now blame a dysfunctional Bush administration -- not their own ignorance of the history of the Arab world. They have belatedly learned that Iraqis -- like any other people -- will fight any foreign invader and occupier. History would have shown them that overcoming an insurgency in the form of internal resistance has been a losing proposition. Look at the experiences of such high-powered nations as the U.S. in Vietnam, the Soviet Union in Afghanistan and the French in Algeria.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I was right...........the Arabd Bedouin fighter my not be much in contemporary western types wars.............but as a desert/guerilla fighter they are deadly......................

Rocky Jones
Sat, 11/18/06
1:29 pm

This country has so much power, so much potential all it needs is a campaign that is on issues not personality and a leader who comes into office that way.

> If only that would happen(

then YES  WE would have a leader worthy of this great nation.

A dark-horse candidate perhaps ... making the right moves ...

===============

You look great.
Uh, thanks.

I like the, you know, broader look.
[laughs] That’s soooo nice of you to say. (to staff) I’d like a Heineken, if you have one.

Can I ask you something? What’s with the Regency Hotel and you guys? John Kerry and Teresa stay here, Evan Bayh, all the big Dems.
You know, I started this years ago…

Do they keep a set of clothes here for you?
No! I wish I could.

They keep Larry King’s clothes here for him.
They do? Where? Now, that is something I did not know.

There’s something you did not know? Incredible. Is there a burden to being so smart?
That’s the exact converse of, “When did you stop beating your wife?” There’s no way to answer a question like that without seeming pompous and conceited. I have a battery-powered hubris alarm on my belt. And it’s set on vibrate, and it’s going crazy.

So, did you ever think your movie would be this successful?
Noooooo. You know, I hoped it would be. But I had questions about whether it would really be possible to turn a slide show into a movie.

And a slide show by Al Gore! Isn’t it interesting how, throughout the 2000 campaign, the media beat you up, calling you wooden and robotic and all that, but somehow you had the charisma to carry a movie?
[laughs] Well, I have always had close friends say, during those political years, “Why don’t they see you the way we see you?”

[...]

http://men.style.com/gq/features/landing?id=content_5179

Delusional Thinking 101, or Delusional Thinking 102?

the great  victory of Korea could have been followed by one in Vietnam if we would just have had  "patience" 

The voters handed Bush his ass over Iraq.. Ned Lamont's loss had a lot more to do with lack of support from Schumer et al. and Republican crossovers to loserman then with Iraq.

Exit polls show that 60% of CT voters want OUT of Iraq. 

98.

Rocky Jones
Sat, 11/18/06
1:31 pm

JudyforDean
Sat, 11/18/06
1:28 pm

Helen is fading.
Robert
--------

It's OK to lick your catfish wounds, Robert.

"We went every state and asked for their vote.  ...It's a sign of respect to ask people for their votes"  ~ DNC Chairman Gov Howard Dean M.D.

From the DU discussion following the article on Gore ...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x2746286 

maybe Helen Thomas will get her well deserved Medal of Freedom in a couple of years after we elect the Gore/Moyer team 

Pentagon: Rumsfeld "Liberated" 50 Million In Iraq And Afghanistan...

Talk about losing your grip on reality . Yet another reason to disbelieve anything the generals say (at least publicly).

Moyers

Helen is fading.

Robert

> That's bait.

Governor Dean responds to James Carville's madness by Sheri Divers
Published Saturday, 11/18/06 @ 10:15 am. ...

The Governor responds to Carville's lunacy here:

..."The people who complain always get the headlines," Dean said, adding there are other high-profile Democrats who support his initiative. "But the fact is that this strategy not only works, it works in states Democrats have given up on for 30 years...

------------

Dean also understands that a 50-State strategy also includes ideologically-neutral, morally-neutral term for legal, safe, elective termination of pregnancy (aka, "choice," "murder" "reproductive rights" etc.)

...but the extremists in the base have temporarily hen-pecked him into public silence on the issue.

JUDY for Dean

thanks for sharing that

-- Gore 2008!!!

"I know half the audience wants us to impeach the pres(ent res)ident, ...but we are not going to do that" ~ DNC Chairman Gov Howard Dean M.D.

Howard ends his appearance on The Daily Show with

BooYeah! (a kinda Marine shout)

Exit polls show that 60% of CT voters want OUT of Iraq. ..

Interesting that you bring this up.

I could start by saying that 60 percent in a blue state like CT is hardly impressive. 

But instead I would start by saying whoever doesnt want us out of Iraq is an idiot.  The question is how. 

It is about like asking in 1864 "would you like the Civil War to be over?" I cant imagine that the number would be less then 90 pecent ON BOTH SIDES (there are always 10 percent nuts on both political extremes).  AGain the question is how.

What Lamont represented was your view.  IE just declare unilateraly that we have lost and cut and run.  Lieberman represented another view...that we want out, but we want out with victory.

Your guy lost.  In a blue state, with the full weight (LAUGH) of the progressives behind him. 

My view won.

Go figure

Robert

maybe Helen Thomas will get her well deserved Medal of Freedom in a couple of years after we elect the Gore/Moyer team   ...

Dream on.  Russ got out for the same reason Gore isnt getting in.  Gore is not an idiot.  He knows who won the 06 election...the DLC.

Things might change but right now Al Gore is always going to be left with "what might have been".

Robert

Just a drive by...

What Kimmy said - great firsties!

Hope that tree didn't give you too much trouble Puddle :-)

see ya later

BooYeah! (a kinda Marine shout)..

Spe4aking of Marines.  My friend had a good one the other day.  He used the gun in his airplane to negate a bad guy mortar creww that was in a Mosque "courtyard".  He was using a flying technique that dates back to the Battle of Midway and was just plinking at the bad guys with his cannon while figuring out if he could get some real rounds on the target when one of his cannon rounds must have hit their ready rounds and blew those up then the whole fracken place went up in smoke.

Anyway as he rolled over to recover he caught this glimpse of the Marine rifle company he was supporting and every one of them was holding their rifles up in the air...which is what they do when they shout "Every Marine is a rifleman" as the spotter said that over fighter director.    My friend is not a Marine but he hangs out with a lot of them...

Robert

It's not "didn't" Thankful. it's doesn't, lol!  Nothing is making a dent in the sucker. 

U.S. military plans new compound for trials

SAN JUAN, Puerto Rico (AP) - The U.S. military said it plans to build a US$125-million compound at the Guantanamo Bay Naval Base where it hopes to hold war-crimes trials for terror suspects by the middle of next year.

The compound, designed to accommodate as many as 1,200 people, would include dining areas, work spaces and sleeping accommodations for administrative personnel, lawyers, journalists and others involved in trials at the isolated prison camp in southeastern Cuba.

It would create a total of three courtrooms on the base to allow for simultaneous trials and a separate high-security area to house the prisoners on trial.

"We need to build more courtrooms and we want to do multiple trials," Pentagon spokesman U.S. navy Lt.-Cmdr. Chito Peppler said Friday. He said the government hopes to begin construction as soon as possible to be ready for trials no later than July 1.

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/War_Terror/2...

It's all bait, Paine.  All.

Rocky Jones
Sat, 11/18/06
1:57 pm


.....It is about like asking in 1864 "would you like the Civil War to be over?" I cant imagine that the number would be less then 90 pecent ON BOTH SIDES (there are always 10 percent nuts on both political extremes). AGain the question is how.

--------

Give it a rest Robert. I've been on this blog for almost two years now and ever since then, you've be predicting we were turning the corner in Iraq.

Face it Robert, you really don't understand what's going on there from the non-military prospective. Your analysis has been consistently wishful thinking, that our brave women and men have not died/been disabled in vain. I share that sentiment, but time to get off the river in Egypt.

Lieberman represented another view...that we want out, but we want out with victory.

There will be no "victory" in Iraq, any more than in Vietnam, or Korea 

Delusional Thinking 101, or Delusional Thinking 102?

the great  victory of Korea

.. Korea has turned out to be a great victory.  It took awhile but it was. 

"could have been followed by one in Vietnam if we would just have had  "patience" "

There use to be someone "here" who thought that, but I cant remember their names...was it LZ?  Cant recall.

The chance of victory in South Vietnam was probably lost with the assasination of Diem.  Vietnam and Iraq have nothing in common, It was alwasy going to be a problem with a ruling Catholic/French educated group as oppossed to "something different" out in teh country...But when we more or less allowed the assasination of Diem that was well a bad move.

Robert

Rocky Jones

> It's probably not PC here, but ...BooYeah!

I will always honor the job our military does.  May they all be safe, and home to their families ASAP.

looks like the horse and pony show is on again. good way to ruin a perfectly lovely day.

There will be no "victory" in Iraq, any more than in Vietnam, or Korea .

Well that is your view.  One that the voters of CT who had a clear choice between your view and mine rejected.

AS an aside I would say if we can get to an Iraq taht is like South Korea...We won!

Robert

FOX News told their reporters how to spin the GOP midterm debacle. Huffington Post got the leaked memo. Here, Keith Olberman discusses FOX News’ Jackbook Journalism with Outfoxed Director Robert Greenwald.

http://www.politicstv.com/blog/?p=1302

lindab, I believe the phrase is "dog and pony show"  LOL!  But I could go with parrot and monkey show. . . .

non similar opinions are OK.  Sometimes opinions are but a point in time.  Everything is fluid to some extent.

Well, four young Mongolians just carried out one sleeper sofa and one closet ... recycling furniture as I prepare to phase down for the impending move.  We got the keys this past week and have been cleaning the new place like mad.  I'll be taking stuff over in bits and pieces but the real move will occur in December.

This is just an interim phase.  The BIG move will happen next summer.

More people will be by next week.  When the price is right ("if you can move it, you can have it"), things go like hotcakes and I like to think of the pieces having good new lives. 

It was fun to see these young people.  One young woman is a colleague at work and the others were here to do the heavy lifting.  They all spoke French but were also delighted to try out some English on me.  What fun!

 dog and pony show / parrot and monkey

> ?

Now to have some supper and relax a bit ... bbl!

The Concrete and Steel are going up for THE FREEDOM TOWER.

I would put "BITE ME" IN ARabic on the outside but FREEDOM TOWER will be fine.

Robert

137.

Rocky Jones
Sat, 11/18/06
2:19 pm

Reply to this

The Concrete and Steel are going up for THE FREEDOM TOWER.

I would put "BITE ME" IN ARabic on the outside but FREEDOM TOWER will be fine.

Robert
---------

I would put it in both Hebrew and Arabic, but I guess that makes me an anti-semite to some [biased] people.

Performances were typically held in open-air arenas, such as race tracks or municipal parks, and in localities that were too small or remote to attract bigtop performances. In the latter part of the 20th century, the original meaning of the term has largely been lost.

The term has come to mean any type of presentation or display that is:

1. somewhat pathetically contrived or overly intricate or
2. put on for purposes of gaining approval for a program, policy, etc.

Example of the slang usage: Work done at OTG is all dog and pony show, there is no substance and things don't work right.

I would put "BITE ME" IN ARabic on the outside but FREEDOM TOWER will be fine.

Robert
---------

I would put it in both Hebrew and Arabic, but I guess that makes me an anti-semite to some [biased] people.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Fred,

Dont worry..................at the are we are going, Robert will be the only one manning the freedom tower...............but will a brave soldier walk alone, unarmed amongst the masses there? Now we are talking courage.......................or stupididity...............sometimes, they go hand in hand.

Michael Ellis
Sat, 11/18/06
2:31 pm

Fred,

Dont worry..................at the are we are going, Robert will be the only one manning the freedom tower...............but will a brave soldier walk alone, unarmed amongst the masses there? Now we are talking courage.......................or stupididity...............sometimes, they go hand in hand.

-------

Sounds like you waxing poetically, my British brother. The "Iron Wall" policy of Zionism post-1930s, and the displacement and apartheid of the Palestinians, has contributed somewhat to the motivation behind the 9/11 attacks.

The two-State solution is doomed. Israel should integrate the indigenous peoples of Palestine into the modern Jewish State and form a secular democracy. That is the only way to turn the tide of the Arab world against Israel and return peace to the Holy Land.

The Immigration of Jews into a peaceful Israel, from around the world, should cancel any demographic [overpopulation] fears of any "Arab takeover" of the Israel. Meanwhile, the Demographic Transition of prosperous Palestinians would convince them there is more to life than making babies.

We need Jewish and American leaders with this kind of vision.

FRED from OR
Sat, 11/18/06
2:26 pm...

AFter Pearl Harbor they started on the job of salvaging the Battle Line of the PAcific Fleet.  Some were relativly easy, TN, CA and a few others were just barely scratched (only one ship had been really hurt by bombs the rest were by torpecoes).  NV took a little longer.   The three ones hurt really bad were Oklahoma, West Virgina and of course Arizona.

Weavie was easier because of counterflooding she settle straight down (although that killed a lot of her crew).  OKIE turned turtle and that made it very hard to salvage here.  They did eventually (by 44) and then they looked at Airzona. 

The only reason that they did not raise Airzona even though she was a hulk was that by all estimations the war would be over (this is now in 44) by the time they got Ari up and rebuilt.  There was really no reason to salvage her.  The effort to raise and rebuild her would take more time and steel then to build a modern Iowa class Battleship.  But the only reason that they didnt do it was that salvage/rebiuild was slated for completion in 49 and most thought the war would be done in 1948.

They were hooking Oklahoma up for the two home to the rebuilders yard when the completion day for the wwar was moved up to 45!

Why?  Again there was no military purpose...a Modern Alabama class had more firepower.  But we were going to do it because we could do it.

We should rebuild the WTC as the Freedom Tower simply because we are the finest Republic the world has ever known and we grind little people who do things like this into the dust bin of history.

The other day my friend was working a road block with some ground pounders and a SUV tried to run it.  They shot out the tires and it overturned.  There were two inside.  The guy driving and the women who had all the explosives strapped to her.  the guy was pinnedf and so was the woman.  The timer on their explosives was just past 2 minutes when my friend and his guys got up to the car.  They have been going somewhere to drop of the woman and let her blow herself up.  There was no way to get them out, they were smashed intheri pretty good..

Both were pleading for rescue. The guy particularly.   My friend smiled and said "Bite me, enjoy hell" and  he and the folks retreated to the concrete barriers and watched the car go up in smoke he shouted to the people "Allah Akabar".

The curse of our lifetime is ISlamic extremism but we will deal with this just as we have dealt with other bandits of history.

Robert

dog and pony shows are great fun if you are in fourth grade and teaching a dog to walk and jump through a hoop

I'd  yank a chain if I wasn't leaving to watch the game.

bbl

War creates MONSTERS.

Michael Ellis
Sat, 11/18/06
2:31 pm

Heh..being a dual citizne type you are free to leave the Country at anytime.  It is my home.

Robert

The curse of our lifetime is settling disagreements with weapons.

War creates MONSTERS.  ...

nope.  When Democracies win wars it deletes monsters from the order of history.

In the surrender at Tokyo Bay they made the one Japanese Destroyer that brought out the delegation steam down the line of US Warships.

One day the people who are fighting for The Republic in Iraq will sit back and look at how Iraq has stabilized the mideast just as South Korea and Japan have stabilized Asia and will say "I did that"

I know people who were at Chosen...who today say the same thing.

Robert

Phil--did you need one of these?

The curse of our lifetime is settling disagreements with weapons.  

LOL

even a cursory brush with history will show you that this is nothing unique.  What do you think we did to the Briish Army at Lexington and Concord...threw Tom Paines pamphlet at them! LOL

Robert

Jennie Lorain
Sat, 11/18/06
2:51 pm

Yes many here need imaginary buttons on their computer to push.

The progressive community has imaginary buttons! LOL

Robert

Rambo's rewriting of history is breathtaking.

We fought to an inconclusive draw in Korea

We lost in Vietnam

We've lost in Iraq, and probably will in Afghanistan.

Any talk of  "victory"  is delusional nonsense!

No Bobby it's a real button.  Red.

No nation (that I am aware of) attacked America on 9/11 (although I smell OPEC).  The same characters attacked Spain, Britain, and many other nations.

We were not radicalized til 9/11, yet *they* were fully so.  Disregarding Iraq we MUST enjoin *them*

FOCUS | Democrats Warned Not to Block Bush's Judicial Nominees

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/111806Z.shtml

The Senate's next Republican leader issued a veiled threat to block action on legislation if Democrats refuse to allow confirmation votes on President Bush's troubled judicial nominations.

It's cute the way they still think they are in power.

FOCUS | Democrats Warned Not to Block Bush's Judicial Nominees 

 http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/111806Z.shtml

Democrats chalked up McConnell's comments to posturing and plain math.

    "The president should stop picking fights and start working with Democrats to pick nominees who can be confirmed," said Jim Manley, spokesman for Senate Democratic leader Harry Reid of Nevada.

    "When we work together on consensus judicial nominees we can make progress," said Sen. Patrick Leahy of Vermont, the incoming Democratic chairman of the Judiciary Committee.

    Bush did the opposite this week, renominating six judges, four of them vehemently opposed by Democrats. Leahy said the renominations amounted to the White House "taking the bait of right-wing partisan groups."

    "Advice and consent does not mean giving the president a free pass to pack the courts with ideologues from the right or left," Leahy said. "The American people want the Senate to be more than a rubber stamp."

> I'm with the Dems.  Doh!  ...like I need to restate that? ::shakes head::

Yes many here need imaginary buttons on their computer to push.

> Wow.  ...now THAT is consensus for ya!  A big ol' wOOT for an ignore button. 

Heck, the same people told me to scroll when I first came here. 

143.

Rocky Jones
Sat, 11/18/06
2:41 pm

The curse of our lifetime is ISlamic extremism but we will deal with this just as we have dealt with other bandits of history.

Robert

----------

Nice story, but our mistake is "to not see it from the other side's view." This is not appeasement or "blame America" but more like "to catch a thief you need to think like one." We were always too self-righteous and stupid to go through that process on a cultural or political level.

That is our "tragic flaw" of our character, in the Shakespearean sense of the phrase.

Any talk of  "victory"  is delusional

>  I imagine that victory in a specific war is sometimes defined differently than a game of sport.  Peace is the ultimate goal. 

I'm not supporting dumbya down dubya, but a cease-fire put a hold on our military in '91.  We were willing to live and let live.  Live and let live is a victory.  War is failure. 

Loss of lives

Loss of treasure

Loss of America's precious goodwill

230 years degraded.  Goodwill is difficult to regain.

FRED from OR
Sat, 11/18/06
3:44 pm

No Fred...there is no need to "see the other side".  By your argument we should have seen the other side of the "keen minds of the south", or we needed to see the side of Nazi Germany or Imperialisitc Japan or The Commies in the Soviet Union or take your pick.

I think that we should uderstand other peoples cultures.  But I dont see the need to 'see their side".

There is good and evil in teh world. What defines good and evil is purely how the clash of cultures works out.  There was a "good" from the side of NAZI Germany.  Had Nazi Germany "won" then the definition of "good" in the world would be a Master RAce. 

There is no moral book for government that says "this kind of government is good, this kind of governmental activity is good, this kind is bad". To the chagrin of both the left and the right the New TEstament does not even say that. 

The NT talks about good and bad moral behavior, but it is clear, if you read the Book in total that  the "good" can include owning slaves for instance.  You can be a good Christian and go to heaven and own slaves.  AT least according to the NT.

There is nothing wrong with slavery UNLESS people bind together in a culture and come up with the moral horsepower to say "we think it is wrong".  There is nothing right about equal rights for women...unless people bind together as a culture and say "we think those are important".  There is nothing right about government being seperated from religion unless the culture evolves that way.

There is nothing dishonorable about the Werchmacht fighting for Nazi Germany UNLESS YOU HAPPEN TO BELIEVE THAT THE ENTIRE PREMISE OF THE CONCEPT IS WRONG.

There is nothing dishonorable about guys strapping bombs on their wives and ordering them into the market place to blow themselves up UNLESS YOU HAPPEN TO BELIEVE THAT THE ENTIRE PREMISE OF THE CONCEPT IS WRONG.

I dont care to see the side of people who think that other humans can be property.  There is nothing to talk about, there is nothing to compromise on, there is just a complete gulf between our moral viewpoints and I hope mine win.

I dont care to see the side of people who think that religion and politics should intertwine to the extent that if you dont accept the religious values then it is ok for the government to kill you.  There is nothing to talk about, there is nothing to compromise on, there is just a complete gulf between our moral viewpoints and I hope mine win.

We make horrible mistakes in our culture.  We are a culture of people and people make mistakes.  But those mistakes are no where equivelent in intent or in specificity to even justify comparing them with other places.

One of my professors was with the Airborne when they liberated one of the camps.  He was single very young and the German women of his age were very elgible.  He would tell us the stories of how everyone in his company was happy to link up with the women in the city UNTIL THEY FOUND THE CAMP.

And then you knew that they all knew and thought it was just fine.  Then you didnt want to know them at all.

You get to kow them Fred.  I have no interest in it.

Robert

Democrats Warned Not to Block Bush's Judicial Nominees

What are Republicans going to do -- win the election that already happened? 

Earth to GOP: YOU LOST 

Imn2Paine
Sat, 11/18/06
3:56 pm

Paine.  the only discussion of "goodwill" is among people who care about what the world thinks.  I really dont care if the world wishes us well or ill.  WE are different from the world and they will always NOT LIKE US.  (this does not include of course our "Cousins" The Limeys, Canucks, Aussies etc)  they will be our friends forever because they are family). 

Do a little traveling you will understand one thing very quickly.  Wherever you go, they all want to live in America and they are all envious that we have the power.

USE IT however it is best for our needs. 

Robert

 http://www.echeat.com/essay.php?t=25476

  Shakespeare - Tragic Hero

[...]

After all the people are killed, all the futures damned, and all the plots become undone, the tragic hero must face his punishment. The tragic hero always excepts his downfall with dignity and grace. By act five the protagonist has realized his flaw and must come to terms with it. Othello and Antony face their tragedy by honorably committing suicide while King Lear, after renouncing his sins, collapses from a broken heart, while Macbeth is courageously killed in man-to- man combat. For each tragic hero the suffering has gone on too long and the only way to receive redemption, and to end the suffering, is death. It is in this death scene that the tragic figure is transformed into the tragic hero (Desjardens).

[...]

What are Republicans going to do -- ..

Ah..learn something about how the Senate operates and you will have more knowledge and the answer to your question.

Robert

... the only discussion of "goodwill" is among people who care about what the world thinks.

> It is them, or that part of them, that I chose to provoke with my "Loss of" post.

Yes, we should act solely for our own self interests, but I imagine our goodwill is a variable (however relevant) considered.  

Last night Keith Olbermann, Bill Maher, and the Huffington Post all commented on the bizarre remark by Bush on what he learned from Vietnam.  The man's a basket case.==

Pat, all of the msm was discussing that yesterday and this a.m.  Even Pat Buchanan!  Had the same commentary that you, Larry Johnson (a CIA advisor-not a liberal;) and most others did--

Bushie thinks the problem with Vietnam is that we left too soon.

{sigh} 

Is this the stream of consciousness blog LOL? I am traveling by air in a few weeks for the first time since the liquid/gel nonsense began. It's amazing what a hassle this is in your head. I heard Wolf say the other day they confiscated his toothpaste and eye cleaner(?) even tho they of course knew him. I'm worried because I use orthotics in my shoes which are custom made and cost $$$ to the insurance (I could not afford to replace them.) Sure hope they don't confiscate them since they come out of my shoes. Maybe I should carry in my purse for the plane?? They have the Dr. name and mine and the date on the back. I was watching Rick Steves on PBS and he was talking about how the fascists built the Milan train station huge so as to make people feel small while inside. Anybody think this gel/liquid thing is a way to get in our heads, make us feel powerless? Anna Quindlen had a rant on the subject a few weeks ago in Newsweek I believe.

Here's the Anna Qundlen column from Newsweek on airport security.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15562940/sit...

Annilow
Sat, 11/18/06
4:27 pm

> Can one bring along a prepared envelope confiscated items?

annilow, why don't you call the airport and/or airlines and ask them. TSA would be another place to try.

trolls to blog, blah, blather,blah, blather. get a life.

FRED from OR
Sat, 11/18/06
3:44 pm

Fred.

I would just add this.  And this is why I was oppossed to going into Iraq when it all boiled down to it.

I REALLY DONT CARE WHAT HAPPENS IN OTHER COUNTRIES in terms of what goes on with the relationship of their people to the government.

I think Freedom is a gift only to those who would have the courage to be free. 

 I think, to quote "Cloud William" from one of my favorite Star Treks that Freedom is one of the sacred words and I agree with Bush that it is a God Given right, but you have to be willing to stand up and assert your rights.

We did and do.  And as long as there are more people like me then the nutty lefties we always will stand for our freedoms.  And retain it. 

And if someone else wont then that is their tough luck.  Enjoy life, it is short.  I might have some personal feelings of saddness about the situation, but HItler and The German people wanted to murder their Jews...sad but not our concern.  Hitler wanted to conquer the French, it is their country to lose...they had about the same size army/airforce he did.  They lost.  Tobad.

Saddam wanted to gas his people and they let him get away with it...well ok.  They are starving in Darfur...regretable but that is mostly their own darn fault.  I wouldnt waste my life to fix it and would waste the lives of Americans to tackle it.

The minute that they come for us though.  Then we have to grind them into the pavement and sscatter them to the winds.  and I dont care how many of us it takes in the process.

I would have encouraged us sstaying out of WWII in Europe.  with our only involvement to have saved Britian from collapsing.  That would have been the line we should have drawn.  The Limeys were willing to fight for their freedom.  I didnt care what the "Japs" (to quote FDR) did in China.  Not our kaneck of the deck.

Saddam wasnt a problem.  Shouldnt have gone.  To bad we did because now that we are there, losing, particuarly in a cut and run will tell the bad guys that there are more cowards then strong people here and they will keep coming.  They will believe that there are more people in this country like were on the second and third airplane of 9/11 who went to their doom like sheep to the slaughter...then people who stood for freedom like on the fourth airplane.

I have traveled the world more then you are almost anyone here.  There are a lot of sad stories.  Just be glad that they are not ours.

Robert

annilow, you cannot carry on those items but you CAN put them in your checked baggage.

Dutch to ban wearing of Muslim burqa in public

http://tinyurl.com/y9vzve

163.

Rocky Jones
Sat, 11/18/06
4:02 pm

---------

Nice dissertation Robert, but you missed the mark again I did not mean to say that "seeing from the other's side" meant an exoneration, appeasement, or acceptance of their actions, nor necessarily did I even mean an avoidance of war.

This is what the intelligence agencies do all the time, which is why they've taken so much heat for criticizing the conduct of the war.

I simply meant what I said, you added your own misbegotten connotation, which only further proves what a character flaw this apprehension of yours is. Don't take it personally, much of our entire country shares this flaw with you.

the Shakespearean tragic character flaw is a flaw of an otherwise very good person who has one small flaw in their character which grows like the horseshoe, that fails the horse, that fails the General, that loses the battle, because of the horsehoe.

Thanks, Paine, for adding the link.  AOL won't let me do it from my inbox.

 So If  putz were to commit suicide out of grief of what he's wrought, he might go down in history as a great and tragic figure.

135.

Imn2Paine
Sat, 11/18/06
2:14 pm

Reply to this

dog and pony show / parrot and monkey

--------

the antithesis of the "mutual admiration society program"

A third big Democratic idea was advanced this week by Jim Webb, the senator-elect from Virginia who promises to be an interesting voice in the new Congress. He argued in the Wall Street Journal that the Democrats should focus on economic justice.

"America's top tier has grown infinitely richer and more removed over the past 25 years," he wrote. "It should be the first order of business for the new Congress to begin addressing these divisions, and to work to bring true fairness back to economic life."

178.

Imn2Paine
Sat, 11/18/06
4:46 pm

Dutch to ban wearing of Muslim burqa in public

http://tinyurl.com/y9vzve
--------------
Can't find anything about ban on kipah either.
Why such a disrimination?

180.seashell

>  At death the tragic figure (apparently from my non-perusal read) becomes a tragic hero.

former
Sat, 11/18/06
5:11 pm

ban on kipah

>  The ban on that shown in the photo @ 178 seems to be the law in the Netherlands.  Wow!  In liberal Holland!  The law of the land.  My guess is the Dutch have had enough and are attempting to change the rules of the game.  Accept the law of the land or leave for greener pastures.  I could add GTFO, but that would be a knee-jerk reaction.

176.

Rocky Jones
Sat, 11/18/06
4:43 pm

Reply to this

FRED from OR
Sat, 11/18/06
3:44 pm

.....
I REALLY DONT CARE WHAT HAPPENS IN OTHER COUNTRIES in terms of what goes on with the relationship of their people to the government.

I think Freedom is a gift only to those who would have the courage to be free....
----------

Next in a row...crap...lol.
"THEY" REALLY DON'T CARE what someone on this blog does care or doesn't...lol.
Freedom has nothing to do with the courage, it's just a realization of nessesity...

185.
Imn2Paine
Sat, 11/18/06
5:20 pm


i could add GTFO,...
------
what is that?

getthe/out

hey LZ...ayyyyyh... where are you?
have a question for you...

Senator-elect Jim Webb from the great state of Virginia:

Governing from the (civil) center

http://www.buffalonews.com/editorial/20061118

A third big Democratic idea was advanced this week by Jim Webb, the senator-elect from Virginia who promises to be an interesting voice in the new Congress. He argued in the Wall Street Journal that the Democrats should focus on economic justice.

"America's top tier has grown infinitely richer and more removed over the past 25 years," he wrote. "It should be the first order of business for the new Congress to begin addressing these divisions, and to work to bring true fairness back to economic life."

188.

Imn2Paine
Sat, 11/18/06
5:27 pm
-----
OK, I can understand this...
I just don't understand only burqa? I expect now, in short term, they will extend it to kipah also...

only burqa? = why only burqa?

192

>  Sorry, but I was unsuccessful in finding a link to a Dutch legislator. 

Sorry that this is early, but it seems folks are doing some holiday gifting early.

Presenting:

A Christmas Card To The World! 

(Thankful for long distance hugs from Thankful) 

The most important--and unfortunately the least debated--issue in politics today is our society's steady drift toward a class-based system, the likes of which we have not seen since the 19th century...

http://www.opinionjournal.com/editorial/feature.html?id=110009246

...The top 1% now takes in an astounding 16% of national income, up from 8% in 1980. The tax codes protect them, just as they protect corporate America, through a vast system of loopholes.

Incestuous corporate boards regularly approve compensation packages for chief executives and others that are out of logic's range. ...

Manufacturing jobs ... pension programs ...

This ever-widening divide is too often ignored or downplayed by its beneficiaries. ...

The politics of the Karl Rove era were designed to distract and divide the very people who would ordinarily be rebelling against the deterioration of their way of life. ...

With this new Congress, and heading into an important presidential election in 2008, American workers have a chance to be heard in ways that have eluded them for more than a decade. Nothing is more important for the health of our society than to grant them the validity of their concerns. And our government leaders have no greater duty than to confront the growing unfairness in this age of globalization.

Mr. Webb is the Democratic senator-elect from Virginia.

Not only the burqa ~~

Holland's centre-right coalition government, which is up for re-election in national polls on Wednesday, controversially said legislation would be put in place ‘as soon as possible’ to ban the head-to-toe garment known as the burqa , as well as all other clothing that covers the entire face in public places.

The announcement comes exactly nine months after the Dutch parliament voted by a thunderous majority to ban the burqa outright. The vote signalled that Dutch parliamentarians appeared overwhelmingly to agree with the notorious implications of the Netherlands becoming the first European country to ban the Muslim veil.

European commentators say the Dutch burqa ban is bound to be seen as a disconcerting first-mover gesture for the continent's 15 million Muslims, who are spread across France, the UK, Germany, Belgium, Austria, Italy, Spain, Sweden and Denmark.

Late on Friday, the Netherlands' immigration minister Rita Verdonk, often called 'Iron Rita' for her tough approach to issues of race and immigration, said in a statement that her cabinet "finds it undesirable that face-covering clothing - including the burqa - is worn in public places for reasons of public order, security and protection of citizens".

She added, "From a security standpoint, people should always be recognizable and from the standpoint of integration, we think people should be able to communicate with one another".
 

civil

> There ya go.  Civil is a proper frame(?).  Not so much defined as secular, but civil.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=6491823

They've linked these tunes for listeners:

Purple Haze

Are You Expierienced?

The Wind Crys Mary

Another drive through...

Puddle, so glad you're free of the log :-)

Paine, thankful for the Hendrix!

{{{Subway}}}

196.

puddle
Sat, 11/18/06
5:51 pm
--------
thanks puddle..., I see...they are tying it to "recognizability" and "communication".

Ok..., that means, imo, kipah not in a "short term" row..., but in a "long term"..., lol.
That's understandable...

to whom it may concern:

The burqa issue is a non-issue. To defend it in the name of liberalism is a perversion of liberalism. It sucks and no one has a right to go around in public incognito with religion as an excuse.

...all the more reason to treat moslem with respect, so as they won't have cause to misinterpret such a ban.

what about halloween, mardi gras, carnival, etc? no right???

kipah

for that matter, what about make-up, wigs, fake beards, hair dye, different colored contact lenses, etc???

new thread

and, should it only be visual? what about perfume, cologne, deoderant, etc.

should be be required to only speak in a regognizible voice? no accents allowed? there goes mel blank's career.

195.

Imn2Paine
Sat, 11/18/06
5:46 pm

.........
BY JIM WEBB
Wednesday, November 15, 2006 12:01 a.m. EST
........

The politics of the Karl Rove era were designed to distract and divide the very people who would ordinarily be rebelling against the deterioration of their way of life. ...

...And our government leaders have no greater duty than to confront the growing unfairness in this age of globalization.

Mr. Webb is the Democratic senator-elect from Virginia.
---------

Mr. Webb is THE MAN..., interesting transition from "hawk" to almost a rebel...

paine, mprov, cC, I'll just take shoes that don't require the inserts (don't want to chance checking them) but isn't that absolutely nuts that I don't feel I can take my shoe inserts on a trip? is 'freedom' just getting chipped away bit by bit like the frog in the hot water? why are we putting up with this???